Posted: 12/27/2008 4:59:23 AM EDT
| Does any one know of a civilian owning a F-4 Phantom? I know the guys with deep pockets out there owning the F-86 sabre,F-100 super sabre, F-104 Star Fighter .....etc. But havent yet heard about a F-4! |
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This is the only civilian owned F-4 in the world, and it took an amendment to a 1999 Act of Congress to make it possible. Collings Foundation F-4D Phantom II  |
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Correction: That's the only OPERABLE F-4 in civilian hands. There are some others owned by museums and individuals but none will ever fly again...not if .gov has anything to say about it...and they do.
Keeping an F-4 in safe flying condition is quite a bit different than keeping a Sabre in safe flying condition. It's a far more complex aircraft and very dependent on ground support equipment that is itself difficult to find and even more difficult to find in serviceable condition. As I understand it, the Collings Foundation had more of a challenge in putting together a full support package to maintain and service their Phantom than they did to actually get the plane up and running once they got those tools. Apparently it took a pretty good amount of scavenging in the DOD surplus inventory to locate serviceable ground support equipment. CJ |
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The airplane in the picture (I assume its the same one) performed at an airshow here in Scottsdale a few years ago, flown by General (ret.) Steve Ritchie, the VN Phantom Ace. Great show, although he couldn't do much with the airport being in the middle of town.
Two questions: The airplane at the show and the one in the picture sure looks like a "C" model, and not a "D" as advertised, the IR lobe on the radome being the giveaway. The ground crew at the show insisted it was a "D" but none of them were old enough to know the difference. Maybe it was a "D" with a surplus "C" radome. All of the "D"s I saw at McCair, had the plain radome without the thingy on the lower quadrant. Second, the airplane at the show had an extensive blue suited ground crew with appropriate equipment from Luke AFB and it was obvious, that the USAF was a sponsor of the activity. No problem with that, but to call it a "civilian" F-4 is a stretch, if that airshow was an indication of the support they get as they show it nationally. |
Please understand that while the Collings Foundation operates THIS exact Phantom:
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the USAF Heritage Flight squadron also operates no less than four F4s which were all at one time converted to QF-4 drones, and later converted back to non-drone configuration. (Except that some of the drone hardware is still installed.) The easy way to tell is to look for the dorsal fairing on the drone and former drone Phantoms. It's not present if it's never been a drone. If an F-4 is operated at an airshow and its ground crew is blue suiters, it's most probably from the USAF Heritage Flight squadron, and not the Collings bird. And of course, the tail number will tell the tale. CJ |
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The airplane in the picture (I assume its the same one) performed at an airshow here in Scottsdale a few years ago, flown by General (ret.) Steve Ritchie, the VN Phantom Ace. Great show, although he couldn't do much with the airport being in the middle of town. Two questions: The airplane at the show and the one in the picture sure looks like a "C" model, and not a "D" as advertised, the IR lobe on the radome being the giveaway. The ground crew at the show insisted it was a "D" but none of them were old enough to know the difference. Maybe it was a "D" with a surplus "C" radome. All of the "D"s I saw at McCair, had the plain radome without the thingy on the lower quadrant. Second, the airplane at the show had an extensive blue suited ground crew with appropriate equipment from Luke AFB and it was obvious, that the USAF was a sponsor of the activity. No problem with that, but to call it a "civilian" F-4 is a stretch, if that airshow was an indication of the support they get as they show it nationally. It's a D. The C model had the IRST as well, but you can tell the differenece. The way tyo tell is that the nose extension on the C comes straight out. On the D, it has that small bulge on the bottom of it. I'm talking about the small extension under the radome. F-4C 
F-4D 
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Can't argue with the facts (pictures) and it's been a long time (40 years) but I sure thought the F4Ds coming off the line in St.L. looked like those in these pics:
F4Ds The F4Js, Ks, and Ms that were coming along about the same time had the same radome. Must be having a senior moment. Thanks for the pics. |
French Valley Airport in Murrieta CA (Wings and Rotors Museum) grabbed a historic Phantom II F4H-1, BuNo 145310 and was in the process of putting it back together with the intent on flying it. Last time I looked they were still on track, just going very slowly. I just double checked, they are still working on it. I may have to check it out next time I'm out that way.
Here's a pic of 145310 during the "Sageburner" runs. (1961) 
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Gotta love that ADC Gray,check out the F-106 in the F-4D background,always loved those Convair F-102s/106s.
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The airplane in the picture (I assume its the same one) performed at an airshow here in Scottsdale a few years ago, flown by General (ret.) Steve Ritchie, the VN Phantom Ace. Great show, although he couldn't do much with the airport being in the middle of town. Two questions: The airplane at the show and the one in the picture sure looks like a "C" model, and not a "D" as advertised, the IR lobe on the radome being the giveaway. The ground crew at the show insisted it was a "D" but none of them were old enough to know the difference. Maybe it was a "D" with a surplus "C" radome. All of the "D"s I saw at McCair, had the plain radome without the thingy on the lower quadrant. Second, the airplane at the show had an extensive blue suited ground crew with appropriate equipment from Luke AFB and it was obvious, that the USAF was a sponsor of the activity. No problem with that, but to call it a "civilian" F-4 is a stretch, if that airshow was an indication of the support they get as they show it nationally. It's a D. The C model had the IRST as well, but you can tell the differenece. The way tyo tell is that the nose extension on the C comes straight out. On the D, it has that small bulge on the bottom of it. I'm talking about the small extension under the radome. F-4C http://www.f-4.nl/F-4C-63-7475.jpg F-4D http://www.f-4.nl/F-4D-64-0965.jpg F-106.....1525 mph! |
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Please understand that while the Collings Foundation operates THIS exact Phantom: http://www.collingsfoundation.org/Houston/pictures/F4/high-f4phantom.jpg, the USAF Heritage Flight squadron also operates no less than four F4s which were all at one time converted to QF-4 drones, and later converted back to non-drone configuration. (Except that some of the drone hardware is still installed.) The easy way to tell is to look for the dorsal fairing on the drone and former drone Phantoms. It's not present if it's never been a drone. If an F-4 is operated at an airshow and its ground crew is blue suiters, it's most probably from the USAF Heritage Flight squadron, and not the Collings bird. And of course, the tail number will tell the tale. CJ If the good general ever showed up to one of our airshows he wouldn't be able to keep our old F-4 mechanics from helping him. 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hol-f4e.jpg
I was in the 49th Tac Fighter Wing at Holloman AFB from 1972-1976. This is one of our birds that has been restored and repainted in S.E.A. Colors. I have always agreed on the SEXY comment......still gives me wood. TiredIron |
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Most F-4Ds did not have the protuberance below the radome that looks like the AN/AAN-4 IRST on the C-models. However, late-production D-models were fitted with a modified IRST housing, but the device was not IRST. It was the AN/APR-25/26 Radar Homing and Warning Receiver (RHWR). The AN/APR-25/26 is the same receiver fitted to the F-105G Wild Weasels, but in a different housing.
I think the AN/APR-25/26 was replaced by the AN/APR-36/38, then later the AN/APR-47, as was used in the F-4G Wild Weasels. Modern Wild Weasels, the F-16CJ use AN/ALR-56M or AN/ALM-59AN/ALR-69, I believe. ETA: Fingers moving faster than brain. |
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Most F-4Ds did not have the protuberance below the radome that looks like the AN/AAN-4 IRST on the C-models. However, late-production D-models were fitted with a modified IRST housing, but the device was not IRST. It was the AN/APR-25/26 Radar Homing and Warning Receiver (RHWR). The AN/APR-25/26 is the same receiver fitted to the F-105G Wild Weasels, but in a different housing. I think the AN/APR-25/26 was replaced by the AN/APR-36/38, then later the AN/APR-47, as was used in the F-4G Wild Weasels. Modern Wild Weasels, the F-16CJ use AN/ALR-56M or AN/ALM-59AN/ALR-69, I believe. ETA: Fingers moving faster than brain.[/di Thanks. I thought I was losing my memory. When I started at MAC in 1966 the D's were coming down the line without the protruberqnce. I left shortly after for a stint at the Cape and by the time I got back, the E's and RFs were in max rate production. I never did get to see a "D" with the thingy on the radome. Hard to believe that during a brief spurt in production in the early 70's its reported that McCair produced 2 1/2 F-4s A DAY, going all over the world. |
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Thanks. I thought I was losing my memory. When I started at MAC in 1966 the D's were coming down the line without the protruberqnce. I left shortly after for a stint at the Cape and by the time I got back, the E's and RFs were in max rate production. I never did get to see a "D" with the thingy on the radome. Hard to believe that during a brief spurt in production in the early 70's its reported that McCair produced 2 1/2 F-4s A DAY, going all over the world. Did you ever know a woman on the F-4 line in STL known as "Cindy McDouble-D?" I've seen pictures. Wow. |
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Thanks. I thought I was losing my memory. When I started at MAC in 1966 the D's were coming down the line without the protruberqnce. I left shortly after for a stint at the Cape and by the time I got back, the E's and RFs were in max rate production. I never did get to see a "D" with the thingy on the radome. Hard to believe that during a brief spurt in production in the early 70's its reported that McCair produced 2 1/2 F-4s A DAY, going all over the world. Did you ever know a woman on the F-4 line in STL known as "Cindy McDouble-D?" I've seen pictures. Wow. No, I never had the pleasure. I was on the space and weapon systems side of things and was stationed at the McCair "rose bowl" which was formally the McCair private sewage treatment plant. The labs had taken it over and tested various explosive things, as well as bore-sighted the guns on the airplanes. They would regularly bring down a J-79 on a cart or on occasion a complete airplane and do engine trims about 100ft from our trailer. My only contact with the assembly line was a weekly walkthrough after lunch in the Bldg 1 cafeteria. Really sorry I missed Cindy, although the airplanes were a close second. |
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A few years back the FL Guard was flying an F4 around the big air show circuit. I saw it twice that year.
When at Reno, there was no bigger excitement than when the F4 did a few fly-bys. The Nam guys in the crowd went nuts. I think I would rather see an F4 "turned loose" than an F-16 any day. Sadly, the 2 times I have seen one in the air, it was restricted to normal flight and low passes. |
| My grandpa was a crew chief for the F-4 Phantom during the Vietnam era, served with the 366th Tact. Fighter Wing I believe. One day I went over to Barksdale A.F.B. and they have a static F-4 on display and we were underneath it and he was just rattling off part names and the first thought that popped into my head was "Hmmmmm, I wonder if I get the parts could he put it together for me?" Of course he wasn't too keen on the idea, too much damn work he said and the whole legality of the matter. It's one of my favorite planes of all time and I'd definitely wouldn't mind having one of my own. |
