Posted: 11/17/2011 6:38:11 PM EDT
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Hello all..
I have a Cessna 182 P (1974) that will need an engine overhaul at the end of next year. Any input an where to get it done and the costs? Or is it time for a conversion like Texas Skyways? Ideas and input appreciated. KA |
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Why is the overhaul due? You do know that TBO (time between overhaul) for a non-revenue aircraft is only a recommendation? If your engine is still making good compression (65/80, for example) and is not burning oil excessively, you don't really need to overhaul it.
If you do decide to overhaul, you have the choice of a "top" overhaul- basically new cylinders and pistons (which is the cheapest), a complete overhaul, including accessories (usually the most expensive), or a factory re-manufactured engine (a good choice for a lot of reasons), or a STC upgrade (REALLY expensive and unless you're flying high and hot a bunch, generally not worth the money). Bottom line: You an spend between $8000 and $55,000 on an overhaul, depending on what you want. We chose the factory reman when I was in a 3-way partnership on a 182- total cost back then was a tad over $19K. I would NOT do an overhaul at the local FBO unless you know the A&P really well. You could check Penn Yann Aero, or Don George Aircraft (I've had personal experience with them with an Aztec and was completely satisfied), or RamAir for overhauls. |
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Quoted:
Why is the overhaul due? You do know that TBO (time between overhaul) for a non-revenue aircraft is only a recommendation? If your engine is still making good compression (65/80, for example) and is not burning oil excessively, you don't really need to overhaul it. If you do decide to overhaul, you have the choice of a "top" overhaul- basically new cylinders and pistons (which is the cheapest), a complete overhaul, including accessories (usually the most expensive), or a factory re-manufactured engine (a good choice for a lot of reasons), or a STC upgrade (REALLY expensive and unless you're flying high and hot a bunch, generally not worth the money). Bottom line: You an spend between $8000 and $55,000 on an overhaul, depending on what you want. We chose the factory reman when I was in a 3-way partnership on a 182- total cost back then was a tad over $19K. I would NOT do an overhaul at the local FBO unless you know the A&P really well. You could check Penn Yann Aero, or Don George Aircraft (I've had personal experience with them with an Aztec and was completely satisfied), or RamAir for overhauls. I'd say that pretty much covers it. |
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I dont know where you are in WI, but the FBO Im at sends a lot of stuff up north to Poplar Grove Airmotive.
http://www.poplargroveairmotive.com/overhaul/index.html |
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Yeah...she's at 1800 now since last overhaul (3500 on airframe)...and compressions are upper 40ish for 4 cylinders...and steadily declining over the past few years. Still generates a truckload of power...pulls 138kts true all day, and needs 1 qt of oil every 25-35 hours...so not bad...yet.
I'm not flying higher than 10 or 11 K...and trips are normally less than 2 hours...so I puddle jump the state with it mostly. Once a year it goes big...to like south texas or something for Hog hunting...but still...only 25 hours of flying time for the big trip. FBO where we have it maintained is awesome...and says we can get one more year...but next year if it keeps declining, we'll need to do something. They don't do the work, but they recommend sending it out. Top overhaul is one thing, but I figure if it's gonna be done...why not set it up for the next 10 to 15 years with a full overhaul? All insight is appreciated. KA |
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If it was mine, I'd just do a top overhaul on it and get 5-6 more years of breathing room before I had to lay out the cost of a full blown overhaul. We topped out 182 and got 4 years out of it (one of my partners got the #3 cylinder to hot with over-aggressive leaning and burnt it up- another story altogether) before we went with the reman engine.
You're still making decent compression(at least according to the Continental dude I spoke with at S-n-F 3 years ago) and the oil consumption is well within the good range, so I doubt a complete overhaul is warranted, but it IS your bird and ultimately YOUR money (Thank God!  )
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Quoted:
Yeah...she's at 1800 now since last overhaul (3500 on airframe)...and compressions are upper 40ish for 4 cylinders...and steadily declining over the past few years. Still generates a truckload of power...pulls 138kts true all day, and needs 1 qt of oil every 25-35 hours...so not bad...yet. I'm not flying higher than 10 or 11 K...and trips are normally less than 2 hours...so I puddle jump the state with it mostly. Once a year it goes big...to like south texas or something for Hog hunting...but still...only 25 hours of flying time for the big trip. FBO where we have it maintained is awesome...and says we can get one more year...but next year if it keeps declining, we'll need to do something. They don't do the work, but they recommend sending it out. Top overhaul is one thing, but I figure if it's gonna be done...why not set it up for the next 10 to 15 years with a full overhaul? All insight is appreciated. KA I find it amazing that you have 4 jugs in the 40's for compression yet your oil consumption is pretty much zero If you are going at least 25 hours before adding a quart. Low compression in a cylinder usually means blowby past the rings in my experience and accordingly high oil consumption as the oil control ring and the other compression rings are not doing their best job as they get worn. Low compression due to leakage past the exhaust valve leads to fairly quick erosion of the valve and/or seat is generally considered an unacceptable condition. Do you know where the low compression is occuring? I don't know what model of Cont O-470 you have but I assume you have a 1500 hr TBO which is what the O-470R has. The wisdom of doing just a top when you are already 300 hrs past TBO is always open to debate. Assuming you buy 6 new jugs at about $1000 per pop + gaskets and other small parts + labor to R&R and you are easily pushing $8-9K into a top overhual or about 35-40% the cost of a major OH. Will it get you another 500 hours or 5 years of flying? Now you are 800 hours past TBO on the bottom end. That's a little high for my comfort factor but I fly over the Alaskan bush not the midwest farm country. As for an engine shop, I would recommend Zephyr Aircraft Engines in Florida. They have very good customer service and offer a pretty good bang for the buck from all that I have heard. I have not used them but will the next time I need a major. |
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There is a very interesting study ( I think it's by the EAA) that plots engine reliability and hours. Somewhat surprisingly, engines are most reliable right at TBO! And the trend does not change much as the hours increase.
However, there is little data beyond 2400 hours due to the fact that most choose to overhaul by this time. Generally out of fear of failure? I don't know your engine, but it seems that most engines can safely ( maybe even be more safe) be run far beyond the recommended overhaul period with proper maintenance. That low compression you posted is repairable. Maybe a field top IRAN is in order. Then soldier on at least 600 more hours? You are the best judge of that. If your engine sees regular use and quality care, it's quite possible to achieve very long life. Are there other problems that need to be addressed too? |
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i agree with knikshooter.
i also own a 182. i topped the O/H'd motor at 770 hours due to excessive oil consumption. i plan on running the new cylinders for 1000 hours and then getting a factory reman. at 1800 hours and compression in the 40's, your motor is telling you that there is a problem. maybe just the exhaust valves are toast, but it certainly warrants investigation. i dont know how old your motor is, but a factory reman with O/H'd accessories is a reasonable solution...you get all the updated improvements. if you dont look for the problem, the problem will look for you....... |
