[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Need prayers asap... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/19/2011 2:59:34 AM EDT
| Monday was the worst day of my life so far and the second worst that a CFI could have. Any fellow instructors should know what I mean. Sorry I can't get details at this time but prayers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. |
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Prayers out. Being a CFI was both fun and frightening. Good luck.
ETA: OP, not that you've done anything wrong, but YOU are the only one you can COUNT ON to watch your back. Obtain copies of all documentation (mtc docs, personnel info, training records) that is floating around (it may be too late to get some of it if you haven't already), and think long and hard about just handing over any documentation in your possession to anybody without first obtaining legal advice. Atlanta has a pretty good selection of aviation attorneys who can advise you on your cooperation with the FAA/NTSB/Employer. FWIW, in the future consider not carrying your logbook with you to the airport, and always keeping your students' training records in a separate format. Also it is a good practice to have students sign off on all completed lessons and initial the line items in a lesson plan or syllabus as they are complete. ...and last, but most important, whatever you're facing is not the end of the world. Keep your wits about you, be professional and collected, and keep on keepin' on. |
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Prayers out. Being a CFI was both fun and frightening. Good luck. ETA: OP, not that you've done anything wrong, but YOU are the only one you can COUNT ON to watch your back. Obtain copies of all documentation (mtc docs, personnel info, training records) that is floating around (it may be too late to get some of it if you haven't already), and think long and hard about just handing over any documentation in your possession to anybody without first obtaining legal advice. Atlanta has a pretty good selection of aviation attorneys who can advise you on your cooperation with the FAA/NTSB/Employer. FWIW, in the future consider not carrying your logbook with you to the airport, and always keeping your students' training records in a separate format. Also it is a good practice to have students sign off on all completed lessons and initial the line items in a lesson plan or syllabus as they are complete. ...and last, but most important, whatever you're facing is not the end of the world. Keep your wits about you, be professional and collected, and keep on keepin' on. The FAA gets my logbook, MX records......... via my lawyer. After they have been properly reviewed. |
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Foreign student? I take it you work for a 141 school? Article says he walked away. Fuel exhaustion? In these cases the 141 status generally protects the instructor as an employee and not an "independent contractor" part 61, as lesson plans and stage checks document competency of the student.
It's not the best scene right now, but it could be much worse. |
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Foreign student? I take it you work for a 141 school? Article says he walked away. Fuel exhaustion? In these cases the 141 status generally protects the instructor as an employee and not an "independent contractor" part 61, as lesson plans and stage checks document competency of the student. It's not the best scene right now, but it could be much worse. Fuel wasn't an issue. Preliminary should be out next week hopefully. |
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http://www.times-herald.com/local/Pilot-walks-away-from-plane-crash––1890287 That link is now dead. Is this the story? |
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http://www.times-herald.com/local/Pilot-walks-away-from-plane-crash––1890287 That link is now dead. Is this the story? That link is dead too 
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http://www.times-herald.com/local/Pilot-walks-away-from-plane-crash––1890287 That link is now dead. Is this the story? That link is dead too Go to the newspapers "stories of the week" ka |
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PMG,
I don't know any of the story, but it looks like the student walked away, nobody on the ground got hurt, but the airplane was a total loss. Be thankful for small favors. If I read this right, you work for DW at Falcon. He was at ASA before my time, but he had a reputation for being a stand up guy. Also, If MaryJane is still there, tell her that Kurt said hi. ka |
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Planes crash, it happens, metal doesn't fly naturally. If it makes you feel any better we had an instructor prematurely sign off on one of his PPL student's cross countries. The student few down to hutchinson, eager to show off he loaded the plane up with his friends. Was about 400 pounds overweight in a beech sierra, hit the perimeter fence on take off, belly flopped it on a highway and disappeared. We had another instance where a student tried and succeeded in stealing a plane, and countless other minor crashes over the years. Luckily, nobody has died and life continues! Insurance is expensive for a reason. |
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Sorry to hear about it. The good news is that the student survived. As others have said, do your best to protect yourself. As long as your paperwork was in order and the training was completed as necessary you will likely be okay. Might have to do a flight with the FAA, but not always. I do know the feeling. One of my first students, who I taught to fly from day one through his commercial, became an instructor. He quickly became sought after around our school, as he was a very good instructor. I warned him not get complacent. He didn't listen and balled up a helicopter with a new student on board. I've got the tailboom from that helicopter sitting in my garage right now. Good luck, I hope it all works out for you.
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You don't need a prayer. If you church you know that. You may need an attorney. Sick and dying folks need prayers. It drives me crazy when people thank god for touchdowns made or for lottery winnings wanted. As long as you're uninjured there are mechanisms in place to make this just one of the days of your life. Babies born and loved ones lost are moments to pray about. Not your job or financials. However this is a fantastic story. Once in a lifetime hopefully.
So I read the articles. You were witness to the crash? If so what was your gut impression? Have you spoken with Mr Wang? Fantastic Wang lives. |
| I have had 4 planes with my signature all over them crash, one fatality. Had all my shit together, had no problems. They were all due to pilot stupidity: running out of fuel, VFR when every other plane in a 500 mile radius was IFR (as in socked in IFR), one took off with a sputtering engine. |
| This seriously needs to be looked into. There have been a number of DA20s experiencing an unrecoverable loss of power. It's great that your student seems to have flown it to the ground like he should have. Hopefully the investigation will yield the cause and a cure. I remember one of the investigations showed a fuel check valve installed backwards from the factory. |
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I have had 4 planes with my signature all over them crash, one fatality. Had all my shit together, had no problems. They were all due to pilot stupidity: running out of fuel, VFR when every other plane in a 500 mile radius was IFR (as in socked in IFR), one took off with a sputtering engine. One of my supervisors says that my student crashing could keep me from getting an airline job |
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I have had 4 planes with my signature all over them crash, one fatality. Had all my shit together, had no problems. They were all due to pilot stupidity: running out of fuel, VFR when every other plane in a 500 mile radius was IFR (as in socked in IFR), one took off with a sputtering engine. One of my supervisors says that my student crashing could keep me from getting an airline job That would be a great favor to you, but it's your dream so let's assume you want an airline job. There are some real winners who managed to get hired at ASA despite a DUI, violation, crash, busted checkrides, or whatever. You will be fine. I know one of their pilots who geared up a seminole on a check-ride and crashed the sim during his eval. None of that stopped him from getting on with ASA. We aren't talking about getting hired by the United States' once great space program, so keep some perspective and don't let your moron manager make you loose your cool. It's not like you were out doing simulated engine failures in a light twin with your student and four passengers, secured the wrong engine during the demo, and then crashed in a field. If you had actually ended up ptf'ing at that school in Florida you were headed to, that would have been in a bigger black eye than this event. I bet it never makes your airman file, and unless you bring it up, nobody will ever ask you about it. ETA: Glad your exchange student is okay. |
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This might seem like a big deal to you right now, but odds are, you will see it as a insignificant, and possibly humorous anecdote in time. This career is different than most people think. It's full of more disappointment, heartache and tragedy than you realize. I'm not saying this to minimize the incident, but to put it in perspective. Student crashes, failed check-rides, investigations, co workers killed, close friends killed, layoffs and furloughs, forced relocations, divorces, and maybe even an accident of your own one day. It's one thing to read about it, but another thing entirely to live through it first hand. All of these things will wear down the original shine you started with. Luck, fate and your own personal level of motivation will determine whether it's worth sticking with. |
| I don't even think the FAA keeps LOI's / 709's / incidents after 3 years anyway. Had one student crash, one fatality after a checkride I gave, and have been in one crash with a student. They all seemed like a big deal at the time, but they ended up being a non event as long as your paperwork is straight. As previously mentioned - tell the person that said you won't get an airline job to fuck off. And the FAA / NTSB does not get your paperwork without a lawyer! If they want it make them get it properly. You probably will find out how lazy the .gov aviation regulatory employees are when you say NO and don't make things easy for them. Watch out that the flight school doesn't try to sell you out too! |
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I have had 4 planes with my signature all over them crash, one fatality. Had all my shit together, had no problems. They were all due to pilot stupidity: running out of fuel, VFR when every other plane in a 500 mile radius was IFR (as in socked in IFR), one took off with a sputtering engine. One of my supervisors says that my student crashing could keep me from getting an airline job Your supervisor is dead wrong. I know guys flying all sorts of equipment from Citations to RJ's and everything in between with all sorts of events actually on their records. No application I've ever seen has said: "Have any of your students been involved in an accident or incident?" Be thankful you're not pulling a friend out of a former airplane. That ruins your day. |
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NTSB Identification: ERA12LA034
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Monday, October 17, 2011 in Newnan, GA Aircraft: DIAMOND AIRCRAFT IND INC DA 20-C1, registration: N828MA Injuries: 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On October 17, 2011, about 1100 eastern daylight time, a Diamond Aircraft Industries DA 20-C1, N828MA, was substantially damaged following a loss of engine power and collision with trees near Newnan, Georgia (CCO). The student pilot sustained minor injuries. The airplane was registered to Daughters Five LLC and operated by Falcon Aviation Academy under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 as a solo instructional flight. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The local flight originated at CCO about 0900. According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the pilot flew the airplane to the Auburn, Alabama area and had returned to CCO for pattern work. After a full stop on runway 14 at CCO, the pilot commenced another takeoff. During the initial climb, about 500 feet above ground level, the engine lost power. The pilot was unable to return to the runway, and a forced landing was performed in a wooded area. The airplane struck two trees and remained lodged in the trees. An inspector with the FAA responded to the accident site and examined the wreckage. The wing tanks were approximately half full of fuel. Fuel flowed freely out of the fuel drain when manually opened. There was no evidence of fuel contamination observed. External examination of the engine revealed no evidence of damage. The wreckage was recovered to the operator's facilities where a detailed examination of the fuel system and engine will be performed. |
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NTSB Identification: ERA12LA034 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Monday, October 17, 2011 in Newnan, GA Aircraft: DIAMOND AIRCRAFT IND INC DA 20-C1, registration: N828MA Injuries: 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On October 17, 2011, about 1100 eastern daylight time, a Diamond Aircraft Industries DA 20-C1, N828MA, was substantially damaged following a loss of engine power and collision with trees near Newnan, Georgia (CCO). The student pilot sustained minor injuries. The airplane was registered to Daughters Five LLC and operated by Falcon Aviation Academy under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 as a solo instructional flight. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The local flight originated at CCO about 0900. According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the pilot flew the airplane to the Auburn, Alabama area and had returned to CCO for pattern work. After a full stop on runway 14 at CCO, the pilot commenced another takeoff. During the initial climb, about 500 feet above ground level, the engine lost power. The pilot was unable to return to the runway, and a forced landing was performed in a wooded area. The airplane struck two trees and remained lodged in the trees. An inspector with the FAA responded to the accident site and examined the wreckage. The wing tanks were approximately half full of fuel. Fuel flowed freely out of the fuel drain when manually opened. There was no evidence of fuel contamination observed. External examination of the engine revealed no evidence of damage. The wreckage was recovered to the operator's facilities where a detailed examination of the fuel system and engine will be performed. OP, I'm no expert by any means but based on the prelim info, I don't think you have much to worry about. |
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NTSB Identification: ERA12LA034 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Monday, October 17, 2011 in Newnan, GA Aircraft: DIAMOND AIRCRAFT IND INC DA 20-C1, registration: N828MA Injuries: 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On October 17, 2011, about 1100 eastern daylight time, a Diamond Aircraft Industries DA 20-C1, N828MA, was substantially damaged following a loss of engine power and collision with trees near Newnan, Georgia (CCO). The student pilot sustained minor injuries. The airplane was registered to Daughters Five LLC and operated by Falcon Aviation Academy under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 as a solo instructional flight. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The local flight originated at CCO about 0900. According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the pilot flew the airplane to the Auburn, Alabama area and had returned to CCO for pattern work. After a full stop on runway 14 at CCO, the pilot commenced another takeoff. During the initial climb, about 500 feet above ground level, the engine lost power. The pilot was unable to return to the runway, and a forced landing was performed in a wooded area. The airplane struck two trees and remained lodged in the trees. An inspector with the FAA responded to the accident site and examined the wreckage. The wing tanks were approximately half full of fuel. Fuel flowed freely out of the fuel drain when manually opened. There was no evidence of fuel contamination observed. External examination of the engine revealed no evidence of damage. The wreckage was recovered to the operator's facilities where a detailed examination of the fuel system and engine will be performed. does a da20 have wing tanks? i thought those had a single tank in the fuselage behind the seats... been a while since i've seen one though. |