Posted: 12/22/2015 9:46:22 AM EDT
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I'm working on fixing up a house I bought in May. The prior owner remodeled the kitchen by himself and it appears he wasn't aware of current electrical codes (he didn't pull permits, so never had inspections). My main concern arose last night and I'd like to get it taken care of. I know a decent amount about residential electrical, but I have a question about this.
I have a GFCI located in a spacer piecec between cabinets because there's no wall behind these cabinets. However, when I flipped the breaker, it's only a 15A, and it's 14-2 wire. Doesn't a kitchen small appliance circuit need to be 20A on 12-2? In either case, the prior owner installed a 20A GFCI on the 14-2, I have at least changed it to a 15A GFCI for the time being. I also found that there is no electrical box and that the GFCI was simply wood screwed to the spacer piece. I plan to cut the hole larger and install an old work box. Lastly, the load terminals of the GFCI were feeding a receptacle in the back wall of the cabinets in another room. Small appliance circuits from the kitchen can't feed another room, right? |
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Quoted:
I'm working on fixing up a house I bought in May. The prior owner remodeled the kitchen by himself and it appears he wasn't aware of current electrical codes (he didn't pull permits, so never had inspections). My main concern arose last night and I'd like to get it taken care of. I know a decent amount about residential electrical, but I have a question about this. I have a GFCI located in a spacer piecec between cabinets because there's no wall behind these cabinets. However, when I flipped the breaker, it's only a 15A, and it's 14-2 wire. Doesn't a kitchen small appliance circuit need to be 20A on 12-2? In either case, the prior owner installed a 20A GFCI on the 14-2, I have at least changed it to a 15A GFCI for the time being. I also found that there is no electrical box and that the GFCI was simply wood screwed to the spacer piece. I plan to cut the hole larger and install an old work box. Lastly, the load terminals of the GFCI were feeding a receptacle in the back wall of the cabinets in another room. Small appliance circuits from the kitchen can't feed another room, right? Should not be going to the living room, etc. I would fix the screw down install like you said, and see if you could fish some 12-2 into the kitchen countertop area where high load cord connected stuff is likely and put a 20 a ckt in. |
| I forgot to ask about using NM or something else. I've never run wire in a kitchen and seem to recall reading that wire inside cabinets needs to be MC. However, in my case, it's in dead space between two cabinets. I have the counter top above, the subfloor below, the spacer piece in front, and the wall in the back. The sides are the cabinet boxes for the cabinets on either side of this dead space. Since the space is complete inaccessible without removing the receptacle, and not inside a cabinet, is NM cable fine? |
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Quoted:
I forgot to ask about using NM or something else. I've never run wire in a kitchen and seem to recall reading that wire inside cabinets needs to be MC. However, in my case, it's in dead space between two cabinets. I have the counter top above, the subfloor below, the spacer piece in front, and the wall in the back. The sides are the cabinet boxes for the cabinets on either side of this dead space. Since the space is complete inaccessible without removing the receptacle, and not inside a cabinet, is NM cable fine? I should know that as a master sparky, but I THINK NM is fine in that app. I would use NM anyway, as long as there is no chance of damage to the cable. Plenty of choices for an old work box to cut in. Just mark cabinet carefully and cut. |
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Quoted:
I should know that as a master sparky, but I THINK NM is fine in that app. I would use NM anyway, as long as there is no chance of damage to the cable. Plenty of choices for an old work box to cut in. Just mark cabinet carefully and cut. Quoted:
Quoted:
I forgot to ask about using NM or something else. I've never run wire in a kitchen and seem to recall reading that wire inside cabinets needs to be MC. However, in my case, it's in dead space between two cabinets. I have the counter top above, the subfloor below, the spacer piece in front, and the wall in the back. The sides are the cabinet boxes for the cabinets on either side of this dead space. Since the space is complete inaccessible without removing the receptacle, and not inside a cabinet, is NM cable fine? I should know that as a master sparky, but I THINK NM is fine in that app. I would use NM anyway, as long as there is no chance of damage to the cable. Plenty of choices for an old work box to cut in. Just mark cabinet carefully and cut. OK, that's what I was thinking since it's in enclosed space with no chance of damage to the cable unless I tear out the cabinets. Luckily there's room in the spacer piece to cut the hole bigger for an old work box. I already have one, I just didn't feel like messing with it at 10:30PM last night. I made the wrong assumption that the remodeled kitchen was done appropriately 
I'll be able to pull a 12-2 and put in a box this weekend. It's maybe a 15 ft. run from the panel and easily accessible from the basement. I'll have to drill new holes in the joists since the 14-2 they ran to put this new outlet in when they remodeled is stuffed so tightly through pre-existing holes in the joists that it abraded the jacket slightly. |
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Quoted:
So are you planning on leaving the 14-2 in the new box and just spicing it thru? I need to find out what else is on the current circuit. My plan right now is to run a new 20A breaker and 12-2 to the GFCI and put in an old work box in the cabinet spacer. I want to use the nightlight GFCI and I can only find those in 15A, so that's what I'll probably use since you can put 15A receptacles on 20A circuits. I have a suspicion that the outlet on the back wall of the cabinets that comes off the GFCI load is likely the only other thing on the circuit. If so, I'll just run a new 14-2 from the existing 15A breaker to it. It'll be the only item on that circuit, but I can tie it to another circuit later if needed. ETA: I actually need to add some additional counter outlets because they didn't follow the 2'/4' code when they remodeled. I have sections of countertop on either side of my fridge that have no outlets at all. I'll eventually add outlets there and tie those to the new 20A circuit I'm going to run to this cabinet outlet. I believe I also need another outlet on one side of my stove, and possibly both (I need to actually measure). I hope (but haven't checked) that the two outlets on either side of my kitchen sink are on their own 20A, but I doubt it. When I get time, I'll put those two and probably another two on either side of my stove on a 20A circuit. I do have one spot that I'm not sure how to handle. It's my peninsula, which I understand needs an outlet, but I don't have anywhere to put it. On on side it's all cabinets with no spacers. On the other two sides it has an overhang for barstools to be used as our dining area. I can't put outlets under more than a 6" counter overhang, and I can't fit them on the cabinet side, so I guess I'll just leave it. |