Posted: 11/5/2015 8:42:08 AM EDT
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I have an older house (built in 1971) that only has an evaporative cooler for cooking and propane wall heaters for heat. I have been looking at buying some mini splits to take over the job of HVAC. Does anyone have any experience with these systems?
Update 11/11/15: Getting Mitsubishi units put in. Thanks for the input! |
| Mitsubishi. They have some options for multi head units and indoor air handler units. You could have an air handler serving the main living area/kitchen/bathroom and then do a wall mount unit in each bedroom or another air handler unit serving all the bedrooms. There's lot of options, but the ductless split systems are the way to go. |
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Just remember that if you go with some no named brand, and there are a few hundred out there, when it breaks you will have zero support, zero parts. There was one China brand I walked walked away from after trying to locate parts and manuals for support, everything was in Changlish. I told the customer good luck. |
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Quoted:
Just remember that if you go with some no named brand, and there are a few hundred out there, when it breaks you will have zero support, zero parts. There was one China brand I walked walked away from after trying to locate parts and manuals for support, everything was in Changlish. I told the customer good luck. Quoted:
Just remember that if you go with some no named brand, and there are a few hundred out there, when it breaks you will have zero support, zero parts. There was one China brand I walked walked away from after trying to locate parts and manuals for support, everything was in Changlish. I told the customer good luck. Generally I would agree with you but in the Pioneer case, from what I know of them, they are one of the better imports. I believe their compressor is made by the same company that makes one of the name brands (Mitsubishi maybe?) There are TONS of good reviews online so they must be doing something right. |
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Generally I would agree with you but in the Pioneer case, from what I know of them, they are one of the better imports. I believe their compressor is made by the same company that makes one of the name brands (Mitsubishi maybe?) There are TONS of good reviews online so they must be doing something right. Quoted:
Quoted:
Just remember that if you go with some no named brand, and there are a few hundred out there, when it breaks you will have zero support, zero parts. There was one China brand I walked walked away from after trying to locate parts and manuals for support, everything was in Changlish. I told the customer good luck. Generally I would agree with you but in the Pioneer case, from what I know of them, they are one of the better imports. I believe their compressor is made by the same company that makes one of the name brands (Mitsubishi maybe?) There are TONS of good reviews online so they must be doing something right. Mitsubishi makes Mitsubishi compressors. Parker Davis makes Pioneer. |
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Quoted:
Just remember that if you go with some no named brand, and there are a few hundred out there, when it breaks you will have zero support, zero parts. There was one China brand I walked walked away from after trying to locate parts and manuals for support, everything was in Changlish. I told the customer good luck. Quoted:
Just remember that if you go with some no named brand, and there are a few hundred out there, when it breaks you will have zero support, zero parts. There was one China brand I walked walked away from after trying to locate parts and manuals for support, everything was in Changlish. I told the customer good luck. Yep. I would even advise buying the brand your installer services and warranties. Since he's the one who will maintain and fix it, let him decide what brand to install. Most of them are made in the same factory anyway. |
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A huge number of the parts for thee things are as 'stock' as it gets.
Any technician that knows what they are doing can swap one in. I used Mr. Slim units for cooling electronic equipment racks and communications rooms for many years. They keep going and going. Since these rooms are rarely occupied by persons (other than maintenance) appearance and noise level are very secondary. We used duct board to enclose the unit and force the air though 19 in racks. Put a sail switch & thermometer connected to a pager unit and you even get a call when anything goes off the rails. I would avoid them for residential. They are still louder than a well designed forced air system. The air handlers are sort of ugly even when recessed between joists. |
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We weighed the cost of them when compared to a new central unit, they are thousands cheaper. If your central unit is good, then yea, it's not a cheap upgrade. Quoted:
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Soooo expensive.  We weighed the cost of them when compared to a new central unit, they are thousands cheaper. If your central unit is good, then yea, it's not a cheap upgrade. I have window units and a historical shack. I'm not sure how to get central in. It would be cheaper than what I was quoted for splits, if it were possible. |
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I have window units and a historical shack. I'm not sure how to get central in. It would be cheaper than what I was quoted for splits, if it were possible. Quoted:
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Soooo expensive. We weighed the cost of them when compared to a new central unit, they are thousands cheaper. If your central unit is good, then yea, it's not a cheap upgrade. I have window units and a historical shack. I'm not sure how to get central in. It would be cheaper than what I was quoted for splits, if it were possible. Copy that. I'm not an A/C guy, so I've already overextended my expertise. |
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A huge number of the parts for thee things are as 'stock' as it gets. Any technician that knows what they are doing can swap one in. In my experience I have have found the exact opposite. That's not to say a Sanyo or Mr. Slim isn't manufactured under a few other names and parts are interchangeable but you won't be going to the supply house and picking up a generic TXV or solenoid valve and just cutting it in and making it work. Those units have very OEM parts and with the tight tolerances of piping and controls, nothing is just "stock" as you put it. If I can't get an OEM part for your mini split I am walking away, no way in hell am I going to try and hack in some aftermarket part on one of those systems. Not to mention support, even after 20yrs as a master journeyman tech, I still need a troubleshooting guide for these units, they all have different controls. Some are easier than others (basic single stage vs variable speed vs VRF systems) but I loathe getting a no cooling call on a mini split, they were not designed to be troubleshot and easily fixed. If you start getting into the VRF systems you can throw everything you even knew about refrigeration theory out the window, just start from scratch and learn their way of doing things, and good luck, it's beyond frustrating. |
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I have window units and a historical shack. I'm not sure how to get central in. It would be cheaper than what I was quoted for splits, if it were possible. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Soooo expensive. We weighed the cost of them when compared to a new central unit, they are thousands cheaper. If your central unit is good, then yea, it's not a cheap upgrade. I have window units and a historical shack. I'm not sure how to get central in. It would be cheaper than what I was quoted for splits, if it were possible. With the cost of both installing the equipment and then the ducting to support the new equipment, a mini split (or a few) would be cheaper. They were designed for that exact application. |
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Quoted:
A huge number of the parts for thee things are as 'stock' as it gets. Any technician that knows what they are doing can swap one in. I used Mr. Slim units for cooling electronic equipment racks and communications rooms for many years. They keep going and going. Since these rooms are rarely occupied by persons (other than maintenance) appearance and noise level are very secondary. We used duct board to enclose the unit and force the air though 19 in racks. Put a sail switch & thermometer connected to a pager unit and you even get a call when anything goes off the rails. I would avoid them for residential. They are still louder than a well designed forced air system. The air handlers are sort of ugly even when recessed between joists. Our sales of Fujitsu have doubled YoY. Mainly being used in residential applications. Think sun rooms, additions, FROG's, basements, and even some whole house aplpications using thier concealed ducted models. And they have the industries best warranty. 
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With the cost of both installing the equipment and then the ducting to support the new equipment, a mini split (or a few) would be cheaper. They were designed for that exact application. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Soooo expensive. We weighed the cost of them when compared to a new central unit, they are thousands cheaper. If your central unit is good, then yea, it's not a cheap upgrade. I have window units and a historical shack. I'm not sure how to get central in. It would be cheaper than what I was quoted for splits, if it were possible. With the cost of both installing the equipment and then the ducting to support the new equipment, a mini split (or a few) would be cheaper. They were designed for that exact application. It sure seemed that way to me. But it didn't work out that way. One of these days, I'll get a quote from someone else and see if it was a fluke. |
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you won't be going to the supply house and picking up a generic TXV or solenoid valve and just cutting it in and making it work. Sure can if you understand what you are doing. Think really cheap for the parts. You cannot buy anything as cheap. Anything you get is 'better than.' TXV ratings are as standard as you can get. What you do for a paying customer is often far from using 'commodity' parts. They are after all paying the bill. |
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Sure can if you understand what you are doing. Think really cheap for the parts. You cannot buy anything as cheap. Anything you get is 'better than.' TXV ratings are as standard as you can get. Quoted:
you won't be going to the supply house and picking up a generic TXV or solenoid valve and just cutting it in and making it work. Sure can if you understand what you are doing. Think really cheap for the parts. You cannot buy anything as cheap. Anything you get is 'better than.' TXV ratings are as standard as you can get. Considering most of them use EXV's, yeah, not sure you are just going to replace them with off the shelf parts. Have fun with that headache when it won't properly meter refrigerant anymore. |
| Gree is a manufacturer of mini splits that started off as a manufacturer of parts for all of the major names. They still make components for all makes but market their own line as well. I have one in my restaurant kitchen and it works wonders. 3 ton for less than $2k installed. |
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Sure can if you understand what you are doing. Think really cheap for the parts. You cannot buy anything as cheap. Anything you get is 'better than.' TXV ratings are as standard as you can get. What you do for a paying customer is often far from using 'commodity' parts. They are after all paying the bill. Quoted:
you won't be going to the supply house and picking up a generic TXV or solenoid valve and just cutting it in and making it work. Sure can if you understand what you are doing. Think really cheap for the parts. You cannot buy anything as cheap. Anything you get is 'better than.' TXV ratings are as standard as you can get. What you do for a paying customer is often far from using 'commodity' parts. They are after all paying the bill. If you would do this kind of HACK job I would not want working on my equipment. I have been doing service for VRF equipment, for the last 5 years. I am the guy the customer calls after you have been there. Its people like you that keep me busy On a side note I would like to know how you would trick the control board that it does have the TXV motor hooked up to it and then how are you going to control the invertor speed. |
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Curious about costs from some of the guys in the know. I have a guest casita and it currently uses a 1.5 ton split through traditional duct work. The unit is over 10 years old and I know it's going to die eventually. I almost never use the room but if I ever sell the house the heat and AC have to work.
I recently got some quotes and was floored. Replacing the air handler and compressor with similar stuff in there is around $4000. Going to a mini split only saved a few hundred. Am I being quoted "zip code" pricing? They quoted about $6000 to replace the 5 ton unit that cools one half of the house. |
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Curious about costs from some of the guys in the know. I have a guest casita and it currently uses a 1.5 ton split through traditional duct work. The unit is over 10 years old and I know it's going to die eventually. I almost never use the room but if I ever sell the house the heat and AC have to work. I recently got some quotes and was floored. Replacing the air handler and compressor with similar stuff in there is around $4000. Going to a mini split only saved a few hundred. Am I being quoted "zip code" pricing? They quoted about $6000 to replace the 5 ton unit that cools one half of the house. All depends on what they were quoting. "Inexpensive" doesn't really exist in HVAC anymore, thanks to the EPA and DOE constantly raising efficiency standards. IIRC, average cost for a changeout last year was about $4700. And Jan 1st was another efficiency increase, so I expect that average cost to be higher. |
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All depends on what they were quoting. "Inexpensive" doesn't really exist in HVAC anymore, thanks to the EPA and DOE constantly raising efficiency standards. IIRC, average cost for a changeout last year was about $4700. And Jan 1st was another efficiency increase, so I expect that average cost to be higher. Quoted:
Quoted:
Curious about costs from some of the guys in the know. I have a guest casita and it currently uses a 1.5 ton split through traditional duct work. The unit is over 10 years old and I know it's going to die eventually. I almost never use the room but if I ever sell the house the heat and AC have to work. I recently got some quotes and was floored. Replacing the air handler and compressor with similar stuff in there is around $4000. Going to a mini split only saved a few hundred. Am I being quoted "zip code" pricing? They quoted about $6000 to replace the 5 ton unit that cools one half of the house. All depends on what they were quoting. "Inexpensive" doesn't really exist in HVAC anymore, thanks to the EPA and DOE constantly raising efficiency standards. IIRC, average cost for a changeout last year was about $4700. And Jan 1st was another efficiency increase, so I expect that average cost to be higher. They are quoting a complete replacement of a 1.5 ton unit. The outside compressor and a new inside air handler/furnace. TO REPLACE EXISTING SPLIT SYSTEM IN GUEST HOUSE WITH NEW CARRIER (1.5 TON /14.00 SEER) SPLIT SYSTEM, TO INCLUDE: 25HCE418A003 - COND. UNIT FB4CNP018LOO - AIR HANDLER DRAIN PAN TRANSITION TO EXISTING DUCTWORK PRO IAQ DIGITAL PROGRAMMABLE THERMOSTAT ALL NECESSARY ELECTRICAL FLUSH KIT RECLAIM REFRIGERANT FROM OLD UNIT REMOVAL AND DISPOSAL OF OLD EQUIPMENT LABOR SALES TAX ON EQUIPMENT 1 MATERIALS WARRANTY: IOYR PARTS, IOYR COMPRESSOR (WHEN REGISTERED BY HOMEOWNER WITHIN 90 DAYS OF INSTALL), IYR LABOR It just irks me cause I almost never have use of that room. But I guess it's the right price. Thanks. |
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It bats being an ignorant parts replacer. They crash and burn on old equipment that does not have manufacturer support. Try and find a 40 year old TXV If you would do this kind of HACK job I would not want working on my equipment. I have been doing service for VRF equipment, for the last 5 years. I am the guy the customer calls after you have been there. Its people like you that keep me busy On a side note I would like to know how you would trick the control board that it does have the TXV motor hooked up to it and then how are you going to control the invertor speed. Quoted:
Quoted:
you won't be going to the supply house and picking up a generic TXV or solenoid valve and just cutting it in and making it work. Sure can if you understand what you are doing. Think really cheap for the parts. You cannot buy anything as cheap. Anything you get is 'better than.' TXV ratings are as standard as you can get. What you do for a paying customer is often far from using 'commodity' parts. They are after all paying the bill. It bats being an ignorant parts replacer. They crash and burn on old equipment that does not have manufacturer support. Try and find a 40 year old TXV If you would do this kind of HACK job I would not want working on my equipment. I have been doing service for VRF equipment, for the last 5 years. I am the guy the customer calls after you have been there. Its people like you that keep me busy On a side note I would like to know how you would trick the control board that it does have the TXV motor hooked up to it and then how are you going to control the invertor speed. |