[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Islam (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/5/2009 4:43:04 AM EDT
|
Are there any Muslims out there in ARFCOM land??? Just curious. Or is this place strictly WASP land? IBTL. |
|
Quoted:
I'm sure there are....Muslims like guns too! But I seriously doubt they'd tell....Tough crowd here at ARFCOM! 
Plus...You call yourself Right-Wing Extremist....They'd probably think it's a trap  People are only a tough crowd because Islamic texts and teachings mandate violence against non-muslims. you have evidence of this world wide and within an Islamic theological context. There are muslims worldwide who advocate genocide of the Jews [and then all other non-muslims]. Funny that Isa, or the muslim "jesus", will return for judgement day and break all crosses, and kill all non-muslims [swine]. I am pretty sure that Christians do not subscribe to a "jesus" that would return to kill them and all other non-muslims. |
|
Quoted:
ibtl and what the fuck is a wasp ? IBTL? I am quoting Islamic texts, is that not allowed here? Book 001, Number 0287: Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary (may peace be upon him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses, kill swine and abolish Jizya and the wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it. When they say the son of mary will return to kill all non-muslims [swine], they are referring to Isa, the muslim version of "jesus". Jesus never said he was going to return to kill all non-muslims.
Swine means non-muslims, as referenced in Qur'an 002.065: YUSUFALI: And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
PICKTHAL: And ye know of those of you who broke the Sabbath, how We said unto them: Be ye apes, despised and hated! SHAKIR: And certainly you have known those among you who exceeded the limits of the Sabbath, so We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated. Next up Qur'an 005.060: YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
PICKTHAL: Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs for retribution with Allah? (Worse is the case of him) whom Allah hath cursed, him on whom His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road. SHAKIR: Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path. Qur'an 007.166 YUSUFALI: When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
PICKTHAL: So when they took pride in that which they had been forbidden, We said unto them: Be ye apes despised and loathed! SHAKIR: Therefore when they revoltingly persisted in what they had been forbidden, We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.</blockquote> |
|
Quoted: You'll probably find the Mohammedans hanging out in the AK section (I hang out there too). I am not muslim......... and I sure as hell am not a wasp (protestant)! I am mostly w.a.s (not protestant).  Maybe I haven't had enough caffeine yet this morning, not sure how to interpret that. |
|
Quoted:
It is interesting how those attack Islam parrot whatever they here. They always quote The Quran out of context and it is almost always the same few verses. I suppose those who wish to spread hate and intolerance really do not care about accuracy. Whatever they "here" sic (hear). I'm sure this is quite true... lot's of people don't have the time, desire to read an entire book or research every little detail for themselves. Might it be that "these verses" are the problem? I didn't even read the post above that you're referring to but the irony in your quote caught my eye (which I highlighted in read/not to be confused with the words of Jesus or anything  )
"They always quote..... out of context..." while I can certainly sympathize with the Mohammedans over this ... since it happens to Christians too. Can it be that it is always quoted out of context? Is it true that this one book contains the only writings that the white man cannot understand or even approach on an intellectual level? If anyone is guilty of understanding those quotes out of context it's the Mohammedans themselves (I know broad and general). Please read the highlighted portion of your quote a few times... quite ironic. Pointing out "hate and intolerance" is not one and the same as being hateful and intolerant. Just saying. I also BTL. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You'll probably find the Mohammedans hanging out in the AK section (I hang out there too ). I am not muslim......... and I sure as hell am not a wasp (protestant)! I am mostly w.a.s (not protestant).
Maybe I haven't had enough caffeine yet this morning, not sure how to interpret that. With a newly added smiley face of course! And I mean white anglo saxon (mostly). |
|
I did not say there are not Muslims who do the same. People confuse political disagreements with religious intolerance.
One passage that people often quote is this one Surah al Baqarah, verse 190-193 states: 'Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you... and slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for Persecution is worse than slaughter, but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they first fight you there, but if they fight you slay them. and fight them on until there is no more Persecution. but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.' They quote half a sentence completely out of context. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
ibtl and what the **** is a wasp ? No need for a lock –– not yet, at least. Also no need for that sort of language in this particular forum IMHO. WASP is a very old/common acronym –– White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. I was born a WASP......now a WASA (White Anglo-Saxon Atheist) This was normally what people were called before there were "yuppies" |
|
Retzam, your post is an example of cherry picking quotes The first speaks of swine. Then you say that swine means non-muslims and to "prove" your point you show us a verse about sabbath breakers who are "apes, despised and rejected". Apes are not swine. Also the first quote is from Hadith's and say that Jesus will return, kill the swine, and abolish the tax on the people of the book and abolish all religions but Islam. How is that any different from Jesus coming down and casting everyone who isn't a Christian into hell? Its not. If Jesus comes back and proclaims he isn't God and that Islam is the correct religion, then obviously the Christians are wrong about Jesus. Most of the people of the book are supposed to accept Islam as the true faith (sort of like the Jews who finally accept Jesus in the Bible, eh?) The Jesus in the Qur'an seems to have the same attitudes toward those who don't believe the truth, Islams' truth is simply different than that of Christianity. Qur'an 005 is a long discourse on the sovereignty of God. There are members here who believe in a sovereign God (including at least one moderator). Those God has cursed obviously have it coming. Anyone can cherry pick quotes and take them out of context. Here are some from the same part of the Qur'an 005.028 YUSUFALI: "If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds. PICKTHAL: Even if thou stretch out thy hand against me to kill me, I shall not stretch out my hand against thee to kill thee, lo! I fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. SHAKIR: If you will stretch forth your hand towards me to slay me, I am not one to stretch forth my hand towards you to slay you surely I fear Allah, the Lord of the worlds: 005.032 YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. PICKTHAL: For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. SHAKIR: For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sure there are....Muslims like guns too! But I seriously doubt they'd tell....Tough crowd here at ARFCOM!
Plus...You call yourself Right-Wing Extremist....They'd probably think it's a trap People are only a tough crowd because Islamic texts and teachings mandate violence against non-muslims. you have evidence of this world wide and within an Islamic theological context. There are muslims worldwide who advocate genocide of the Jews [and then all other non-muslims]. Funny that Isa, or the muslim "jesus", will return for judgement day and break all crosses, and kill all non-muslims [swine]. I am pretty sure that Christians do not subscribe to a "jesus" that would return to kill them and all other non-muslims. We don't see it that way, but I guarantee you someone would like to spin the Rapture and subsequent Judgement that way. Death is death, be it just or not, in the mind of some. |
|
Quoted:
It is interesting how those attack Islam parrot whatever they here. They always quote The Quran out of context and it is almost always the same few verses. I suppose those who wish to spread hate and intolerance really do not care about accuracy. It is interesting that you don't seek to enlighten the mistaken either. The careless bantying about of the ad hominem attacks on character and motivation do you no credit, particular if you are of a mind to foster peace. |
|
I'm a muslim. I'm not a crazy extremist. I love America and what she stands for, I support the war on terror, I will stand by this country until the day I die. my father is also a muslim and served in the American Navy as an officer for many years and I hope to follow his example by joining the Marines as an officer in a few short years.
I was always afraid to show that I was a muslim on here because I know some people here misunderstand and hate us. but fuck it who cares. if you can't accept the fact that we're not all insane pieces of shit that take innocent lives "in the name of god" then you aren't intelligent enough to be my friend anyway. |
|
There are those that will hate you, and it is not your fault. I am a Jew and there are those that have an attitude. I have also sat in shul with a muslim. He was from Bosnia and recently arrived. He wandered in and was accepted....we shared cake and coffee with him and got a report on the hardships in his homeland.
Too many people mistake the tension of governments and fanatics for that of all people of that faith. Jews and Muslims have gotten along for over a thousand years. All I can say is welcome to Ar15, and thank you for when you start your service, I have 3 in the military. |
|
Quoted: We don't see it that way, but I guarantee you someone would like to spin the Rapture and subsequent Judgement that way. Death is death, be it just or not, in the mind of some. And some would say if Jesus comes back and the Muslim account turns out to be true, then those who don't convert to Islam would deserve death..... Quoted: Quoted: It is interesting how those attack Islam parrot whatever they here. They always quote The Quran out of context and it is almost always the same few verses. I suppose those who wish to spread hate and intolerance really do not care about accuracy. It is interesting that you don't seek to enlighten the mistaken either. The careless bantying about of the ad hominem attacks on character and motivation do you no credit, particular if you are of a mind to foster peace. Have you seen the comments about Islam on this website (and even in this kinder gentler forum)? Ad hominem attacks are the bread and butter of those who hate Islam. He isn't going to change their minds, they'll simply say he isn't a "true Muslim" |
|
I would hope that someone would come out and say they are a muslim and an american patriot. I am european american by the current standards but I do not think of mysef as anything BUT american. African amnerican? asian american? there are truely none. You are an american or you are not. Period Teddy Rosevelt said,"The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife. " AND," There can be no fifty-fifty Americanism in this country. There is room here for only 100% Americanism, only for those who are Americans and nothing else. ""We can have no "50-50" allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."
These are his words on the subject. I agree with them. This is why we are not together working toward a common good. There is a reason people still come here. It is still even in our recession a place better than the one they left and a place of opportunity. If you are muslim, tell people you are American, stand proud. Tell them your religion is muslim and you are an american patriot. I will stand next to you. and pray with you. |
| I lived in the middle east for nearly ten years I had the privilege of meeting and breaking bread with some very genuine warm muslim people whom I was honored to have known. I think what hurts moderate muslims however are the vast majority extremist muslims that propagate throughout the world and then the organizations like CAIR here in the US which are known to be terrorist and fundamentalist front groups. It took nearly a Milena of indoctrination for Islam to get where it is in the world and it most likely will take that long for a cooler more moderate presence to prevail within the religion. One thing that would go a very long way towards smoothing things out would be to quit expecting everyone to make set asides for the muslim faith and yet expect people to forget or hide their own faith in this land which is by definition a christian land. Not trying to stir the bucket just my two cents. |
|
Quoted:
your post is an example of cherry picking quotes No they're not, unfortunately. Dino, can you name one school of Islamic jurisprudence that teaches muslims should live with non-muslims peacefully on an indefinite basis? The four sunni schools- Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali- all mandate violence against non-believers as a mandatory obligation, including the Jafari (Shia) school of fiqh, or law. How ironic that you accuse me of cherry picking, when Qur'an 5:32 [which you appeal to] is actually an earlier Jewish verse: Mishnah, IV Division 5, “Thus was created a single man, to teach us that every person who loses a single soul, it shall be written about him as if he has lost the entire world, and every person who sustains a single soul, it shall be written about him as if he has sustained the entire world.” So you are actually quoting a Jewish verse to prove Islam is loving and tolerant. Just like Obama quoted this same verse in Cairo, as do many other Islamic apologists, yet always forget to follow up with verse 5:33. Qur'an 5:33 "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; " So a verse you quote shows Islam's peaceful tenent is actually a Jewish verse, and when we put it in the Islamic context, the following verse shows what Islam has "laid…down for the Israelites," with the treatments of "execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides". Funny how the verse you quoted in context is the exact opposite of what you tried to portray. Who is the real cherry picker? Quoted:
The first speaks of swine. Then you say that swine means non-muslims and to "prove" your point you show us a verse about sabbath breakers who are "apes, despised and rejected". Apes are not swine. Qur'an 2:63–66, 5:59–60, and 7:166 all refer to the apes and pigs. Mr. Spencer can add to this: The grand sheikh of Al-Azhar, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, the most respected cleric in the world among Sunni Muslims today, has called Jews “the enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs.” Saudi sheikh Abd al-Rahman al-Sudayyis, imam of the principal mosque in the holiest city in Islam, Mecca, said in a sermon that Jews are “the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs.”
Another Saudi sheikh, Ba’d bin Abdallah al-Ajameh al-Ghamidi, made the connection explicit: “The current behavior of the brothers of apes and pigs, their treachery, violation of agreements, and defiling of holy places … is connected with the deeds of their forefathers during the early period of Islam—which proves the great similarity between all the Jews living today and the Jews who lived at the dawn of Islam.” A 1996 Hamas publication says that today’s Jews are bestial in spirit, and this is a manifestation of the punishment of their forefathers. In January 2007, Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas stated, “The sons of Israel are mentioned as those who are corrupting humanity on earth,” referring to Qur’an 5:64. So once again, we see top Islamic clerics labeling Jews [and non-muslims] as apes and pigs according to Islamic texts just like I stated. Geert Wilders said it well the other day: I have a problem with the Islamization of our societies. I have nothing against people, not individuals, not groups. I have nothing against Muslims. I know the majority of Muslims in our society are law abiding people, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have a problem with the Islamic ideology, the Islamic culture, because I believe the more Islam we get in our free societies, the less freedom we will get. And I want to fight for what the Muslims call “kafirs”, all those non-Muslims, all those women, all those apostates, all those renegades, all those homosexuals that will pay a high price when Islam would become more dominant in our society.
|
|
Quoted: I'm a muslim. I'm not a crazy extremist. I love America and what she stands for, I support the war on terror, I will stand by this country until the day I die. my father is also a muslim and served in the American Navy as an officer for many years and I hope to follow his example by joining the Marines as an officer in a few short years. I was always afraid to show that I was a muslim on here because I know some people here misunderstand and hate us. but fuck it who cares. if you can't accept the fact that we're not all insane pieces of shit that take innocent lives "in the name of god" then you aren't intelligent enough to be my friend anyway.  Thank your father for serving, and I'm glad you are considering it yourself. |
|
Quoted:
I'm a muslim. I'm not a crazy extremist. I love America and what she stands for, I support the war on terror, I will stand by this country until the day I die. my father is also a muslim and served in the American Navy as an officer for many years and I hope to follow his example by joining the Marines as an officer in a few short years. I was always afraid to show that I was a muslim on here because I know some people here misunderstand and hate us. but fuck it who cares. if you can't accept the fact that we're not all insane pieces of shit that take innocent lives "in the name of god" then you aren't intelligent enough to be my friend anyway. I say thank you. Unfortunately, this does nothing to refute what I said. This would be like if I stated that Jesus commanded his followers to lover their enemies,.and you tried to argue I was wrong because you knew a Christian who hated his enemies. Just because religious hypocrites [for lack of a better word] exist, does nothing to refute the sources of Islamic texts and teachings that mandate violence and subjugation of the non-muslims. |
|
Quoted:
I would hope that someone would come out and say they are a muslim and an american patriot. I am european american by the current standards but I do not think of mysef as anything BUT american. African amnerican? asian american? there are truely none. You are an american or you are not. Period Teddy Rosevelt said,"The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife. " AND," There can be no fifty-fifty Americanism in this country. There is room here for only 100% Americanism, only for those who are Americans and nothing else. ""We can have no "50-50" allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all." These are his words on the subject. I agree with them. This is why we are not together working toward a common good. There is a reason people still come here. It is still even in our recession a place better than the one they left and a place of opportunity. If you are muslim, tell people you are American, stand proud. Tell them your religion is muslim and you are an american patriot. I will stand next to you. and pray with you. Yep and by the time you realize their texts and teachings mandate lying to non-muslims to get in a better position to then subjugate them, it will be too late. You also ignore [or are ignorant of] the fact that Islamic texts and teachings mandate muslims to not be friends of non-muslims [unless it is in benefit to muslims]. Look at Islam's borders and how bloody they are worldwide. People in this forum are in denial when trying to whitewash Islamic texts and teachings. |
|
Lets hope this wasn't Tycho's dad in this story:
12 Soldiers Killed and 31 Wounded in Fort Hood Shooting Suspected Gunman Is Identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan |
|
Quoted:
Yes there are. I know one personally and have shot with him. But while he is "Muslim," he's Muslim the way 90% of Christians are "Christian." That is, it's more about his heritage and identity than his daily life. Yep. Just like I said above though, religious hypocrites don't tell you anything about what the religious text and teachings command. |
|
Quoted:
I'm a muslim. I'm not a crazy extremist. I love America and what she stands for, I support the war on terror, I will stand by this country until the day I die. my father is also a muslim and served in the American Navy as an officer for many years and I hope to follow his example by joining the Marines as an officer in a few short years. I was always afraid to show that I was a muslim on here because I know some people here misunderstand and hate us. but fuck it who cares. if you can't accept the fact that we're not all insane pieces of shit that take innocent lives "in the name of god" then you aren't intelligent enough to be my friend anyway. What do you think of the violence commanded against non-muslims by Muhammad's last marching orders [fight those who believe not in Allah Q9:29]? What are you doing to make sure other muslims do not follow the violence and hatred commanded by Allah in Islamic texts and teachings? Lets assume for arguments sake that Islam is peaceful and I and many muslims are wrong, and Islam is really peaceful. If peaceful muslims can not stop violent jihadist in their home muslim countries, why do you think peaceful muslims could control violent jihadist in western countries? If you truly are a muslim, I am assuming you have not studied Islamic texts and teachings much. Am I correct with that assumption? |
|
Quoted:
Lets hope this wasn't Tycho's dad in this story: 12 Soldiers Killed and 31 Wounded in Fort Hood Shooting Suspected Gunman Is Identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan Quoted for posterity. Accusing another member's father of possibly being a terrorist who killed his fellow US service members. You are a complete [COC violation]. 
|
|
the argument, distrust, dislike BTW Christians, Jews, and Muslims will continue for as long as light shines on the earth or we all kill each other just like we
have been trying to since the beginning. I guess "can't we just all get along" won't work on this one. 
|
|
Well, i don't know about bundle heads here.....
But Evangelicals AREN'T considered protestants as there denominations did not originate with the Catholics or the Protestant branches of them, they started from seperate interpretation of scripture not influenced by the Nicean creed. |
|
Quoted: Well, i don't know about bundle heads here..... But Evangelicals AREN'T considered protestants as there denominations did not originate with the Catholics or the Protestant branches of them, they started from seperate interpretation of scripture not influenced by the Nicean creed. ... Evangelicism is an 18th Century Protestant Christian movement that started in England. It is a movement within the greater umbrella of all Protestant faiths. I would LOVE to see any evidence you have to the contrary. |
| Well...it seems there is a lot of hate on here toward Muslims. I would point out that the Quran is very much in content to the Biblical Old Testament or the Judaic Tanahk. A lot of the same teachings and writers up to a certain point where it deviates some. The content is similar though. It is the radical extremists ( I would point out all religions have their fair share of them) that teach the hate and 'jihadist' ideals as formost. This is taught as in the old days of the Catholic church where there was little written text and the priests were the sole disseminators of the bible. The extremists teach ethnocentric hate, and nothing more. They intentionally leave out whole portions of teachings in the Quran to those which do not read or write arabic if anything at all and provide aid as if they were a benevolent portion of society. It is our misunderstanding of them which caused the problems and gave rise to those that hate us now. Sorry, but I study history and politics and I don't go for the hate others thing. If a terrorist came upon me in an attempt to harm ANYONE, I would not hesitate to act. As I would with anyone wanting to harm another. Double tap. |
|
I will side with RETZAN. Having read the koran the jihadists are the ones living closer to their koran. The koran is also to dualistic. Be nice to christians one part, then if they don't convert kill them in another. So if Your muslim which do You follow? Since Your Allah is the only one and everyone must submit. You try to convince Us poor Christians and if we fail to believe and worship the Son of Mary also, we must be severly punished.
Sorry I don't follow the koran, to me it is obvious who the author is and it isn't God. Go ahead be muslim but do it in the Middle East is My opinion. No shari law here.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sure there are....Muslims like guns too! But I seriously doubt they'd tell....Tough crowd here at ARFCOM!
Plus...You call yourself Right-Wing Extremist....They'd probably think it's a trap People are only a tough crowd because Islamic texts and teachings mandate violence against non-muslims. you have evidence of this world wide and within an Islamic theological context. There are muslims worldwide who advocate genocide of the Jews [and then all other non-muslims]. Funny that Isa, or the muslim "jesus", will return for judgement day and break all crosses, and kill all non-muslims [swine]. I am pretty sure that Christians do not subscribe to a "jesus" that would return to kill them and all other non-muslims. Well, the Bible says that when Christ returns he will make war w/ the remainder of the nations/ppl who are persecuting Israel, and subdue the earth. Rev. 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Christ will come to purify and cleanse the earth, but during this time there will be much death and destruction and war. Not defending Islam by any stretch of the imagination here. But I subscribe to the Christ of the Bible, not the one of false portrayal by the cookie cutter Christmas stores (Christmas wasnt Christ's b-day either). When he returns hes not coming to throw a tea party, hes going to lay down Iron justice that is well deserved on a wicked and rebellious earth. However you are correct, Islam is a blood lust religion hell bent on power and conquest. |
|
Quoted:
I will side with RETZAN. Having read the koran the jihadists are the ones living closer to their koran. The koran is also to dualistic. Be nice to christians one part, then if they don't convert kill them in another. So if Your muslim which do You follow? Since Your Allah is the only one and everyone must submit. You try to convince Us poor Christians and if we fail to believe and worship the Son of Mary also, we must be severly punished. Sorry I don't follow the koran, to me it is obvious who the author is and it isn't God. Go ahead be muslim but do it in the Middle East is My opinion. No shari law here. I agree. |