Posted: 6/27/2009 5:08:00 PM EDT
|
I watched a interesting movie on the documentary channel about Jack Chick. It was called God's Cartoonist. I remember reading these when I was a kid and being scared of going to Hell. Some of them were pretty wild and he made a lot of enemies. I thought it was interesting they are banned in Canada and a lot of other countries as hate speech. Here is a movie trailer if anyone is interested. 
|
|
He most definitely hasn't been touched by a noodley appendage.
I love people who have God in a Box. Go to this church, dress this way, look this way, carry and read the bible this way (which is their way and their way only) or you will burn in hell. "We have God in a Box. Be like us and you too can have God in a box!" 
|
|
When I think of Jack Chick I think of "Holy Joe" and "Somebody Loves Me"....its hard to find better tracts then those two.
Sure his method is rough sometimes but much of what he writes is the Truth. I dont agree with the man 100% but anyone who gets banned from Canada has to be doing something right. Still after a childhood reading Jack I cant say that Im not a big fan of Halloween...I just cant help it. 
|
|
Quoted:
+1
When I think of Jack Chick I think of "Holy Joe" and "Somebody Loves Me"....its hard to find better tracts then those two. Sure his method is rough sometimes but much of what he writes is the Truth. I dont agree with the man 100% but anyone who gets banned from Canada has to be doing something right. Still after a childhood reading Jack I cant say that Im not a big fan of Halloween...I just cant help it. |
| I admire anyone who stands firm in their faith (whatever it may be) and tries to share it for the benefit of others. But the Chick tracks are deceptive and misleading, especially concerning Catholicism. I have no respect for those who lie and manipulate the truth as if the end justifies the means, I don't care if they are Catholic or non-Catholic. |
| Chick tracts are awesome, they are often unintentionally hilarious, as is the case where one says that dungeons and dragons "made" a girl commit suicide, to some that are actually very insightful. The one where he paints a future where religion is outlawed in a totalitarian liberal forced atheism police state is VERY accurate to what a frighteningly large amount of "atheists" (really anti-theists) actually want. Mostly, they are just photoshop fodder. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As an atheist, I think they're hilarious. psalms 14:1 Would a Muslim quoting the Koran to try to make a point have any effect on you? Cause it has none on me. nope because the koran is not the Word of God...and it does not matter anything I say because Romans says that God gave some up. and satan has blinded them and they will not listen it all about him the Lord Jesus Christ...amen! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
+1
When I think of Jack Chick I think of "Holy Joe" and "Somebody Loves Me"....its hard to find better tracts then those two. Sure his method is rough sometimes but much of what he writes is the Truth. I dont agree with the man 100% but anyone who gets banned from Canada has to be doing something right. Still after a childhood reading Jack I cant say that Im not a big fan of Halloween...I just cant help it. Rapid anti-Catholic. I sincerely doubt the Christianity of anyone filled with that much hate and deception. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As an atheist, I think they're hilarious. psalms 14:1 Would a Muslim quoting the Koran to try to make a point have any effect on you? Cause it has none on me. nope because the koran is not the Word of God...and it does not matter anything I say because Romans says that God gave some up. and satan has blinded them and they will not listen it all about him the Lord Jesus Christ...amen! According to you, it isn't, according to the Muslim, it is. And according to me, neither are. See how that works? |
|
Quoted:
I first heard of chick tracts on this board. Not a fan of them, really dont like it if he is anti-Catholic. Chick goes beyond being anti-Catholic. He has done several cartoons lampooning the Virgin Mary and referred to Her as a tool of Satan used to deceive Christians away from the presence of God and lure them to hell.
Chick is the cartoon version of Reverend Phelps. He is so focused on his personal point of view, he has lost complete perspective of what being Christian is. 
|
|
Quoted:
Oh boy....where we could end up making claims like that. In the interest of civility ill simply add that both Jack Chick and the Catholic Church will both be held into account by the standard of Truth found in Gods word the Bible. Making claims? All one has to do is read tracts such The Death Cookie (and a whole host of others, no pun intended) to see the Anti-Catholicism. But, hey, that's OK. Jesus himself said we would be hated, so it makes me feel better knowing that if I am hated for His name's sake, it just means we are the real deal. As far as the Church being held to the Truth of God's Word - I say Bring it On!!! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh boy....where we could end up making claims like that. In the interest of civility ill simply add that both Jack Chick and the Catholic Church will both be held into account by the standard of Truth found in Gods word the Bible. Making claims? All one has to do is read tracts such The Death Cookie (and a whole host of others, no pun intended) to see the Anti-Catholicism. But, hey, that's OK. Jesus himself said we would be hated, so it makes me feel better knowing that if I am hated for His name's sake. It just means we are the real deal. As far as the Church being held to the Truth of God's Word - I say Bring it On!!! Go cat! |
|
Cat if you would like to point out several of the lies in Chicks tracts I would find your view points well worth reading.
Now don’t get me wrong, I won’t always defend Chicks delivery but much of his message is the truth. As I stated before, there are elements to Chicks theology that I disagree with myself but I haven’t found that any of them are essential to the fundamental tenants of the Gospel. I would also like to add that the lies you point out must be lies in the light of Scripture and not the authority of the Catholic Church. You know where I stand on who has the final authority…and fancy hats don’t win any points with me. If you can point to Biblical passages that expose Jack as a liar…. in all seriousness I would be grateful. PM’s would be fine if you prefer that rout. I must point out that Jesus said that he would be hated because he spoke the Truth….which In Jacks mind is exactly what he is doing. Also I must point out that many Catholics are accusing Chick of not just misrepresenting the Bible but making up his own truth…. that is oddly enough exactly what Jack is accusing the Catholic Church of doing. In a case like this people who are confused always need to go to the source…The Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2TI 2:15 Rightly Dividing Gods word is where either Chick or some Catholics are in error….we should not just take either one at there word but open Gods word for ourselves….and study. |
|
Quoted:
Cat if you would like to point out several of the lies in Chicks tracts I would find your view points well worth reading. <snip> Won't work. Here's why, and I've posted this many times before. The conversation/argument will go like this: 1. Fund: Jack Chick says Catholics believe X. 2. Cath: No actually Catholics believe Y, and here's the notation from the Catechism that shows it. 3. Fund: That's not from the Bible. 4. Cath: Here's the Bible verse (annotated in the Catechism) on which that belief is based. 5. Fund: The Catholics have misinterpreted the Bible. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Cat if you would like to point out several of the lies in Chicks tracts I would find your view points well worth reading. <snip> Won't work. Here's why, and I've posted this many times before. The conversation/argument will go like this: 1. Fund: Jack Chick says Catholics believe X. 2. Cath: No actually Catholics believe Y, and here's the notation from the Catechism that shows it. 3. Fund: That's not from the Bible. 4. Cath: Here's the Bible verse (annotated in the Catechism) on which that belief is based. 5. Fund: The Catholics have misinterpreted the Bible. Game. Set. Match. |
|
Come’ on…Not exactly like that.
I’m not interested in Defending Chick or attacking the Catholic Church. However, I’m always interested in individuals or churches that skew the fundamental Truths of the Bible.(as any follower of Christ should be) Were not talking minor theological differences here but potentially blatant false teachings. Cats one of my favorite people on the sight…the last thing I want to do is get into some kind of Christian “Cat” fight.
To me Jack Chicks problem isn’t his message but his delivery. He points out Biblical flaws with the teachings of Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Freemasons, Catholics and many others. But then instead of knocking on their door to engage in dialog he smashes their door in with a sledge hammer and calls them out on it. Nevertheless, poor delivery doesn’t always equate inaccuracy. If Mr. Chick is fundamentally skewing the Bible he should be called out on it. …As should any others. |
|
Quoted:
++
Cat if you would like to point out several of the lies in Chicks tracts I would find your view points well worth reading. Now don’t get me wrong, I won’t always defend Chicks delivery but much of his message is the truth. As I stated before, there are elements to Chicks theology that I disagree with myself but I haven’t found that any of them are essential to the fundamental tenants of the Gospel. I would also like to add that the lies you point out must be lies in the light of Scripture and not the authority of the Catholic Church. You know where I stand on who has the final authority…and fancy hats don’t win any points with me. If you can point to Biblical passages that expose Jack as a liar…. in all seriousness I would be grateful. PM’s would be fine if you prefer that rout. I must point out that Jesus said that he would be hated because he spoke the Truth….which In Jacks mind is exactly what he is doing. Also I must point out that many Catholics are accusing Chick of not just misrepresenting the Bible but making up his own truth…. that is oddly enough exactly what Jack is accusing the Catholic Church of doing. In a case like this people who are confused always need to go to the source…The Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2TI 2:15 Rightly Dividing Gods word is where either Chick or some Catholics are in error….we should not just take either one at there word but open Gods word for ourselves….and study. thats right God tells his children "sons" to show thyself approved Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. when it comes down to it, its what you did with the Word! If yall do not belive that Jesus Christ is the Son of God that shed his blood as Gods sacrafice for your sins.... God bless he is the way John 14:6 John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. |
|
Quoted:
Cat if you would like to point out several of the lies in Chicks tracts I would find your view points well worth reading. I can point out many lies not even having to do primarily with theology, but just unfounded attacks on the Church. Here you go: *The Catholic Church keeps "the name of every Protestant church member in the world" in a "big computer" in the Vatican for use in future persecutions.[1]
*But the conspiracy is much broader than this, and it has been going on for a very long time. In the sixth century, for instance, Catholic leaders manipulated the Arabian tribesman Mohammed into creating the religion of Islam to use as a weapon against the Jews and to conquer Jerusalem for the pope.[2] *The Jesuits instigated the American Civil War, supporting the Confederate cause and seeking to undermine the Union. When they failed, they arranged the assassination of Abraham Lincoln.[3] Later, they formed the Ku Klux Klan.[4] *"Jesuits worked closely with Marx, Engels, Trotsky, Lenin, and Stalin" to create Communism, and it was "believed that soon . . . Communism would rise up as the new strong daughter of the Vatican."[5] It was Rome that instigated the Bolshevik Revolution and the murder of the czar’s family.[6] The Communist "liberation theology" movement also is a Vatican plot.[7] *The Nazi Holocaust of the 1940s was a Vatican-controlled attempt to exterminate Jews and heretics.  Further, "Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were backed by the Vatican for the purpose of setting up a one-world government to usher in the ‘Millennial Kingdom’ under Pope Pius XII."[9]
*The Vatican conspiracy is so extensive that, through the Jesuits, Rome controls the Illuminati, the Council on Foreign Relations, international bankers, the Mafia, the Club of Rome, the Masons, and the New Age movement.[10] *The Jesuits created the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, Unity, Christian Science, and other religious groups.[11] *"Pope John Paul II has been a good Communist for many years"[12] and engineered a phony assassination attempt against himself in 1981 to shame Islam into warming relations with the Vatican, since the would-be killer was a Muslim.[13] Link, with footnotes showing the tracts referred to. In addition, there is "Are Roman Catholics Christians" where he basically tries to prove that we are not. He discusses how the Sacrament of Holy Communion is really derived from pagan worship. He also states that "Money must be paid for masses to be said to get Helen out [of Purgatory]." No, that's a misrepresentation of the doctrine. He condemns practices of the Catholic Church that are also practiced in other Christian churches - infant baptism and the belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist (Anglicans, Lutherans, Orthodox also believe this) and uses this as part of his "proof" that Catholics are not Christians!!!!! In "The Death Cookie" - first of he calls the Eucharist a cookie! He again brings in the false connection to Egyptian sun god worship - wrong. He claims that the letters IHS on the Eucharist stand for Isis, Horus and Seb, instead the accurate monogram for Jesus. He claims the Church kept people from reading scripture because it is dangerous. He claims that we believe that Jesus is angry in heaven and only His mother can calm him down. Now don’t get me wrong, I won’t always defend Chicks delivery but much of his message is the truth.
So, some lies mixed in the truth is OK? Give me a break. He misrepresents Catholic doctrine, using sinister and/or exaggerated language. I would also like to add that the lies you point out must be lies in the light of Scripture and not the authority of the Catholic Church.
You know where I stand on who has the final authority…and fancy hats don’t win any points with me. Fancy hats? Yeah, that's what I look for as my authority... The "light of Scripture" or the light of someone's personal fallible interpretation of scripture? If you can point to Biblical passages that expose Jack as a liar…. in all seriousness I would be grateful.
PM’s would be fine if you prefer that rout. DV8 already covered why that won't work, and frankly I am not in the mood today. I must point out that Jesus said that he would be hated because he spoke the Truth….which In Jacks mind is exactly what he is doing.
Also I must point out that many Catholics are accusing Chick of not just misrepresenting the Bible but making up his own truth…. that is oddly enough exactly what Jack is accusing the Catholic Church of doing. When did Jesus give Jack Chick the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and the authority to bind and loose? - I must have missed that passage. |
|
Quoted:
Come’ on…Not exactly like that. I’m not interested in Defending Chick or attacking the Catholic Church. However, I’m always interested in individuals or churches that skew the fundamental Truths of the Bible.(as any follower of Christ should be) Were not talking minor theological differences here but potentially blatant false teachings. Cats one of my favorite people on the sight…the last thing I want to do is get into some kind of Christian “Cat” fight.
To me Jack Chicks problem isn’t his message but his delivery. He points out Biblical flaws with the teachings of Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Freemasons, Catholics and many others. But then instead of knocking on their door to engage in dialog he smashes their door in with a sledge hammer and calls them out on it. Nevertheless, poor delivery doesn’t always equate inaccuracy. If Mr. Chick is fundamentally skewing the Bible he should be called out on it. …As should any others. The winky icon does not smooth over Chick's insults. Like most fundamentalist zealot's, the scriptural references that back Catholic belief are simply 'overlooked' or twisted in context in his tracts. He is NOT a truthsayer. He is an anti-Catholic bigot. The last supper took place during the feast of the passover. Bread was not leavened during passover. Scripture tells us that Jesus said 'This is My Body.' Paul reiterates this along with Jesus' admonition to continue this in remembrance of Him. Pretty simple, huh? Catholics do this, as commanded by Jesus Christ and the Scripture. Now read this. http://www.chick.com/tractimages58304/0074/0074_02.gif |
|
cat (kat)
noun pl. cats or cat 1.any of a family (Felidae) of carnivores, including the lion, tiger, cougar, etc., characterized by a lithe body and, in all species but the cheetah, retractile claws holic (ə häl′ik) one who exhibits an obsessive need for or interest in (something specified) Etymology: -a- + (alco)holic Revelation 013:001 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 013:002 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 013:003 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 013:004 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 013:005 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 013:006 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 013:007 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 013:008 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 013:009 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 013:010 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 013:011 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 013:012 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 013:013 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 013:014 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 013:015 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, |
|
Cat
Were kind of lumping several topics into one here. Yes, there is tons of Conspiracy about the Catholic Church not just by Chick but dozens of secular authors. And yes I could give out a few great books that are well worth reading regarding some elements of the Catholic Church and its century’s long struggle for global power. That’s not my point! We could go on all day about what people did hundreds of years ago. It will boil down to your source vs. my source….nether of which is always readily verifiable. While that is very interesting topic…it’s not the one that is the most important. How the Catholic or Protestant churches interact in the affairs of this world takes a distant back seat to what they teach about Gods word the Bible! The kingdom of this World is far less important then The Kingdom that is NOT of this world. I care far less about whether the Catholic Church conspired to assassinate Abraham Lincoln… then why thy tell people to pray to dead saints to reach God instead of directly through Jesus Christ. Sure Chick refers to tons of conspiracy …but He also points to many teachings that are inconstant with the Bible. The Catholic Church + this world = interesting The Catholic Church + Gods Word the Bible = Imperative (Any Church can easily fit into that equation) If I recall you’re a little over a month away from childbirth so accept my apology if in anyway have messed up your day. I you look back over the posts I cant take credit for going down this road. If any of your Catholic Friends would like to contact me with further discussion they may do so by PM. FYI, I in no way claim that all Catholics cannot be Christians. |
|
Quoted:
cat (kat) noun pl. cats or cat 1.any of a family (Felidae) of carnivores, including the lion, tiger, cougar, etc., characterized by a lithe body and, in all species but the cheetah, retractile claws holic (ə häl′ik) one who exhibits an obsessive need for or interest in (something specified) Etymology: -a- + (alco)holic Revelation 013:001 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 013:002 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 013:003 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 013:004 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 013:005 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 013:006 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 013:007 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 013:008 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 013:009 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 013:010 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 013:011 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 013:012 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 013:013 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 013:014 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 013:015 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, WUT? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Come’ on…Not exactly like that. I’m not interested in Defending Chick or attacking the Catholic Church. However, I’m always interested in individuals or churches that skew the fundamental Truths of the Bible.(as any follower of Christ should be) Were not talking minor theological differences here but potentially blatant false teachings. Cats one of my favorite people on the sight…the last thing I want to do is get into some kind of Christian “Cat” fight.
To me Jack Chicks problem isn’t his message but his delivery. He points out Biblical flaws with the teachings of Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Freemasons, Catholics and many others. But then instead of knocking on their door to engage in dialog he smashes their door in with a sledge hammer and calls them out on it. Nevertheless, poor delivery doesn’t always equate inaccuracy. If Mr. Chick is fundamentally skewing the Bible he should be called out on it. …As should any others. The winky icon does not smooth over Chick's insults. Like most fundamentalist zealot's, the scriptural references that back Catholic belief are simply 'overlooked' or twisted in context in his tracts. He is NOT a truthsayer. He is an anti-Catholic bigot. The last supper took place during the feast of the passover. Bread was not leavened during passover. Scripture tells us that Jesus said 'This is My Body.' Paul reiterates this along with Jesus' admonition to continue this in remembrance of Him. Pretty simple, huh? Catholics do this, as commanded by Jesus Christ and the Scripture. Now read this. http://www.chick.com/tractimages58304/0074/0074_02.gif IInteresting….. but Ill send you a PM on the subject if you don’t mind |
|
IInteresting….. but Ill send you a PM on the subject if you don’t mind Please post in the thread, this is interesting. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
cat (kat) noun pl. cats or cat 1.any of a family (Felidae) of carnivores, including the lion, tiger, cougar, etc., characterized by a lithe body and, in all species but the cheetah, retractile claws holic (ə häl′ik) one who exhibits an obsessive need for or interest in (something specified) Etymology: -a- + (alco)holic Revelation 013:001 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 013:002 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 013:003 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 013:004 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 013:005 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 013:006 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 013:007 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 013:008 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 013:009 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 013:010 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 013:011 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 013:012 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 013:013 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 013:014 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 013:015 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, WUT? got to watch for a cat worshiper.... I know their is some sheep in the Catholic church houses and some goats....just like all the other church houses around the world 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Come’ on…Not exactly like that. I’m not interested in Defending Chick or attacking the Catholic Church. However, I’m always interested in individuals or churches that skew the fundamental Truths of the Bible.(as any follower of Christ should be) Were not talking minor theological differences here but potentially blatant false teachings. Cats one of my favorite people on the sight…the last thing I want to do is get into some kind of Christian “Cat” fight.
To me Jack Chicks problem isn’t his message but his delivery. He points out Biblical flaws with the teachings of Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Freemasons, Catholics and many others. But then instead of knocking on their door to engage in dialog he smashes their door in with a sledge hammer and calls them out on it. Nevertheless, poor delivery doesn’t always equate inaccuracy. If Mr. Chick is fundamentally skewing the Bible he should be called out on it. …As should any others. The winky icon does not smooth over Chick's insults. Like most fundamentalist zealot's, the scriptural references that back Catholic belief are simply 'overlooked' or twisted in context in his tracts. He is NOT a truthsayer. He is an anti-Catholic bigot. The last supper took place during the feast of the passover. Bread was not leavened during passover. Scripture tells us that Jesus said 'This is My Body.' Paul reiterates this along with Jesus' admonition to continue this in remembrance of Him. Pretty simple, huh? Catholics do this, as commanded by Jesus Christ and the Scripture. Now read this. http://www.chick.com/tractimages58304/0074/0074_02.gif IInteresting….. but Ill send you a PM on the subject if you don’t mind No thanks. I'd rather destroy your Chick-like bias in a more public format. |
|
Quoted:
How the Catholic or Protestant churches interact in the affairs of this world takes a distant back seat to what they teach about Gods word the Bible! So, attempting to spread the Gospel using hate and lies should be just as abhorrent to you as it is to me. I care far less about whether the Catholic Church conspired to assassinate Abraham Lincoln… then why thy tell people to pray to dead saints to reach God instead of directly through Jesus Christ.
They don't. We only ask those alive in Christ (members of the Church Militant and the Church Triumphant) to pray for us, and in addition, we do go directly to Jesus Christ, as well as praying to The Father and the Holy Spirit. Sure Chick refers to tons of conspiracy …but He also points to many teachings that are inconstant with the Bible.
Again, only inconsistent with his fallible interpretation of the Bible. For I have read the Bible, compared it to Catholic doctrine, as many have done before me, and found no inconsistencies. What makes his interpretation correct? If I recall you’re a little over a month away from childbirth so accept my apology if in anyway have messed up your day.
7 weeks, to be exact. And no, you have not messed up my day, but thank you for your concern. FYI, I in no way claim that all Catholics cannot be Christians.
Well, Chick does. And I have a huge problem with that. |
|
Quoted: cat (kat) noun pl. cats or cat 1.any of a family (Felidae) of carnivores, including the lion, tiger, cougar, etc., characterized by a lithe body and, in all species but the cheetah, retractile claws holic (ə häl′ik) one who exhibits an obsessive need for or interest in (something specified) Etymology: -a- + (alco)holic ...  |
|
cath⋅o⋅lic
–adjective 1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal. 2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all. 3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church. Origin: 1300–1350; ME < L catholicus < Gk katholikós general, equiv. to kathól(ou) universally (contr. of phrase katà hólou according to the whole; see cata-, holo- ) + -ikos -ic |
|
Hello, my name is Cattitude, and I am a cat-holic. I have 4 four cats, and I plan to have more. I can't get enough of their cute furry faces.....
On a more serious note..... "You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 8). - Ignatius of Polycarp, 110 AD The Early Church Fathers claim that Polycarp was ordained by Peter himself. |
|
Quoted:
Wasn't there a member here who mentioned having a special pouch on his belt just for these things? What things? Cats? Yeesh... 
It would not surprise me if someone was so enamored with Chick that he carried his tracts with him everywhere he went. I have a feeling, though, that he would be about as tactful as Chick is, and his message is usually lost due to the messenger. |
|
It's the guy who does the videos of all the stuff he carries, and for the life of me I can't remember his screen name. I just remember people busting his balls about it. I had no idea what they were until getting handed one at the county fair a few years ago, it was one about how evil Halloween was, I just dropped it in the closest trash can. Who actually buys into that junk? Quoted: Quoted: Wasn't there a member here who mentioned having a special pouch on his belt just for these things? What things? Cats? Yeesh... It would not surprise me if someone was so enamored with Chick that he carried his tracts with him everywhere he went. I have a feeling, though, that he would be about as tactful as Chick is, and his message is usually lost due to the messenger. |
|
Quoted:
I must point out that Jesus said that he would be hated because he spoke the Truth….which In Jacks mind is exactly what he is doing. Also I must point out that many Catholics are accusing Chick of not just misrepresenting the Bible but making up his own truth…. that is oddly enough exactly what Jack is accusing the Catholic Church of doing. In a case like this people who are confused always need to go to the source…The Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2TI 2:15 Rightly Dividing Gods word is where either Chick or some Catholics are in error….we should not just take either one at there word but open Gods word for ourselves….and study. The problem is that it still comes down to the Bible... according to someone's interpretation. You say that some Catholic doctrine is fundamentally flawed according to the Bible, but what you really mean is it's fundamentally flawed according to your interpretation of the Bible. How do we know that your interpretation is the correct one? You claim to have the correct interpretation under guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Church claims to have the correct interpretation under guidance of the Holy Spirit. Either the Holy Spirit is misleading one or the other, or someone isn't interpreting the Bible correctly. How do you know who that is? You look at how the early Christians interpreted it. That means reading the writings of the early church leaders (the 1st four centuries or so) to see how they interpreted it. It means studying history to see how they lived and prayed. The early Christians celebrated the Eucharist and believed it to truly be the Body and Blood of Jesus. They died to protect the Eucharist (St. Tarcisius). They believed Baptism was more than just a symbolic act, but actually gives us grace (Irenaeus of Lyon ca 110AD). They understood Jesus to have given Peter an authority that other bishops did not have, which was passed on to Peter's successors (Polycarp of Smyrna –– a student of John the Apostle). The problem with Chick is that he follows only his own interpretation, divorcing the Bible and Christianity itself from its historical roots. |
|
Quoted: It's the guy who does the videos of all the stuff he carries, and for the life of me I can't remember his screen name. I just remember people busting his balls about it. I had no idea what they were until getting handed one at the county fair a few years ago, it was one about how evil Halloween was, I just dropped it in the closest trash can. Who actually buys into that junk? Quoted: Quoted: Wasn't there a member here who mentioned having a special pouch on his belt just for these things? What things? Cats? Yeesh... It would not surprise me if someone was so enamored with Chick that he carried his tracts with him everywhere he went. I have a feeling, though, that he would be about as tactful as Chick is, and his message is usually lost due to the messenger. That'd be LousianaCarry. |
|
As requested,
Your right about the Death Cookie…it's controversial because it deals (harshly) with one of the major distinction between protestant/evangelicals and Catholics. That of course is Communion/Eucharist. The Catholics believe that When Jesus was with His Disciples during the Passover and He broke the bread and said “take eat this is my body”…that it literal became His flesh and the wine his blood. This belief is called “transubstantiation”….when partaking of the bread and wine they literally become the flesh and blood of Christ. This is part of the official Catholic faith. So let’s take this teaching and look at it through the lens of the Bible. First of all it is not necessary to even take these words literally. There would be no Biblical purpose to literally eat the flesh of Christ. Jesus often spoke in metaphors or used figures of speech to highlight what he was trying to teach his followers. I.E if your Eye/Hand offend you gouge/cut them out. He called the Pharisees who could see...Blind Guides, He called Herod a Fox, He called Himself the Gate..The Door, I am the true Vine, He referred to His followers as salt and light, On and on the list could go! It would not only be illogical to take these sayings literally but it would miss their entire point! So let’s take a closer look at the phrase “take eat this is my body” Let’s look at John 6 starting at vs. 53 “Then Jesus said unto them, verily, verily I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.” Is Jesus telling us that we must engage in cannibalism to follow after Him? In other words if we don’t believe that Jesus Physically become a "door" "corner stone" "vine." If We don’t believe that as Christ disciples we literally become grains of salt or beams of light…how do we all of a sudden take this passage and think that we must eat the literal flesh of Jesus to follow him? Let’s look a little further. Vs 57 and 58 “ As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even He shall live by me. This is that Bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live forever.” Note in vs. 58 Jesus specifically separates the physical bread “manna” from the spiritual bread of Christ. He is showing that eating the bread of Christ is simply living in communion with Christ. Using the analogy of food Jesus is saying, if you eat of me you have something far more valuable than physical food…even the miracle bread manna. If we are to take the whole “eating Christ’s flesh” part literal we have to take the "Live forever" part literal. That would translate into those who eat the literal flesh of Jesus will literally live forever. Last I checked all of the first 12 disciples are literally dead. Now of course this kind of talk has the disciples in a quandary. Their beginning to second guess this Jesus. Vs 60 states many of them said “this is a hard saying, who can hear it?” And I don’t blame them! Let’s move on to vs. 61 Jesus knows that this is causing questions among his followers. ..He says “Does this offend you?” I have to smile at that…of course it offended them! Their Jews, they don’t eat pork much less human flesh! He knows that’s what they’re thinking so in verse 63 he sheds light on what he is trying to tell them. Vs 63 “It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profitith nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.” It isn’t the flesh disciples! It’s the Spirit…It’s the WORDS that are life! Jesus didn’t have to say “Just kidding” about eating His flesh anymore then He did when he told them it would be better to gouge out your eye instead of lusting or explainimg about a camel going through the eye of a needle. Paul tells us in 1 Cor 2:14 that Jesus words are to be judged spiritually.. not in a gross cannibalistic sense. When Jesus spoke literally he was quite clear and when he had a spiritual lesson that needed a physical analogy he often used analogies that grabbed the attention and the imagination of his followers. At the Passover When Jesus Broke the bread he was bringing His disciples memory back to the lesson from John 6. He then said “take eat this is my body” while he was holding the bread in his physical body. Jesus was incarnate…He was in Human form. For him to be offering them His literal flesh He would have been Incarnate in two different bodies…there would have to have been two Incarnate Christ’s. Jesus body was broken once, His blood was poured out once, HE became the perfect sacrifice once. He said “do this in remembrance of me” not, do this to ingest my flesh so I may become part of you. When we take communion we take the literal bread and the literal wine and it reminds us of the breaking of His Body and pouring out of His blood for our sins…..and the spiritual significance of that sacrifice of God perfect Lamb. We should do it for just the purpose Jesus asked us to….too remember. We don’t need to eat Christ flesh to commune with Him…. His spirit already dwells in the believer! As Jesus himself said….the Bread is nothing….”the Words that I speak unto you, they are the Spirit and they are the life. John6:63” |
|
Now if you can Biblically explain why we need to eat the literal Flesh of Jesus and what purpose it serves over and above what the Holy Spirit already does I would love to read your thoughts on the matter. (ill be out of town until monday)
As far as people simply running around screaming “your taking that verse out of context” …well its true, many people do take Biblical verses out of context. Satan himself used scripture to tempt Jesus in the wilderness…three times! Jesus then used Scripture to point out Satan’s deception. Modifying the Bible to fit ones theology/ideology is nothing new. In fact it’s one of Satan’s oldest and best tricks! I believe it was Marten Luther who said “the first time we see Satan in the Bible he is camped out under the tree of knowledge, and he has been there ever since.” How true, Satan has mastered the art of appearing as an Angle of light. Just walk into the New Age / Spirituality section of any bookstore. Most, if not all, spiritual paths/teachings/philosophies use the Bible to some degree. Mr. Chick and the Vatican will be held to the same standard as Jim Jones and David Koresh…and that standard will not change or conform to any truth but the Truth of Jesus Christ. If we as Christians see our spiritual leaders tampering with the essential truths of the Bible/Gospel we should be the first to confront and challenge them. Our relationship with God doesn’t hinge on the Eucharist, The Virgin Mary, Dead Saints, Vatican appointed Priests, rosaries /crucifixes /indulgences /, Sprinklings/ Baptisms, Good works, Strict diets, Sabbath worship, or anything else men heap together…..It is By Grace alone through Faith Alone! We can talk directly to God our Father through Jesus Christ His Son. We don’t have to strive to reach Him because His Spirit lives in us. Rom 3: 22- Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. A Catholic Monk once read the following verse and it changed His life, just as it has changed the life of countless others who were once slaves to religion. “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.” The message to the Catholic is the same as it is to the Primitive Baptist or any other denomination …don’t place your Church and its teachings before Christ. but place Christ before your Church and its Teachings. |
|
You will have to do better. Every point you attempted to make is old hat. Stale. Tired. You can refer to point number five in the post that I made just prior to the onset of this discussion.
'5. Fund: Your (Catholic) interpretation of the Bible is wrong.' I do appreciate you accelerating the usual process by not bothering with points one thru four. For the evangelical, the Bible always means what it says.......unless it doesn't mean what it says. Or agrees with Catholic teaching. The twisted interpretation required to come to your conclusion about the Eucharist has been, and will continue to be, spouted by the very same people who claim that the Catholic Church (an institution that they also claim didn't exist!) kept the 'simple words of the Bible' from the populace for centuries. So which is it? Is the Bible simple and easily understood, or does it require the contortions that you just took 1500 words to explain? Does Jesus say what He means? Or is it simply a matter that each and every believer determine when and if He speaks in metaphors? Clearly, the early Christians believed in transubstantiation. Documents that predate the assembly of the Canon of Scripture verify this belief. They also believed in eternal life, a concept you don't seem to grasp. And you can lose the litany of offensive terminology regarding other Catholic beliefs. When Christ said 'This is My Body,' he meant it. Which church still believes and practices this 2,000 years later? (Hint: its not yours.) But to relieve your mind, WE do not put our Church and teachings before Christ, YOU put our Church and teachings before Christ. |
|
T1NMAN,
I think you are missing my point entirely. We certainly could get into a lengthy theological debate about the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist vs. the symbolic. I could go through each verse of scripture supporting the Catholic doctrine. I could go through each point of the Passover sacrifice prefiguring the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. And I am certainly willing to do that, but that is not the point of this thread. Besides, as soon as we exhaust that topic, you will likely move on and continue with your offensive references to "fancy hats," "Vatican appointed priests" and "strict diets", etc. You say you aren't interested in attacking the Church, but many of your comments do just that. The point is that Chick portrays Catholics and the Church in a dishonest, hateful, exaggerated caricature. He misrepresents what we actually believe in many cases, creating a straw man then knocking it down. Examples, again: "Money must be paid for masses to be said to get Helen out [of Purgatory]." "Now all we need is a God for the people, one they can see, and touch and pray to...They did it in ancient Egypt and it worked." "The angry Jesus up in heaven that nobody can calm down except his mother." "...Catholics are afraid of the loving Savior...and they believe only Mary can get them to heaven" These are BLATANT LIES and do not accurately depict what we believe. This is not simply a matter of him disagreeing with Catholic doctrine; many people obviously do that, yet present themselves in a charitable manner. Ex 20:16: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor...I'll go ahead and add: even if you sprinkle in some truth with the lies. don’t place your Church and its teachings before Christ. but place Christ before your Church and its Teachings.
And one last thing, I don't place "my Church and it's teaching before Christ". My faith is in Jesus Christ through the Church He founded, through the Sacraments he initiated, through Sacred Scripture and through the Sacred Tradition entrusted to His apostles and their successors, in all of which He makes Himself present to me. |