[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How did you find salvation???? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/26/2008 12:42:57 PM EDT
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I am not a religious person . I was raised that way , but I walked away from it long ago . As of late I have been doing a lot of reading , and a lot of thinking . I am just wondering , how did you find salvation? Just born and raised that way , or did you have to earn it so to speak by living through something? Is it ever to late for a persons soul ? |
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It really depends on what theology you believe in. If you believe in the Armenian theology, then you choose when to believe in God. If you believe in the Calvinism theology, then God chooses when you turn to him. I believe in the later of the two and that God turned my heart towards him. God has a plan for everybody, and maybe it is on your death bed that he turns your heart. I don't feel it's ever too late for anybody as long as God plans for you to believe. I would say do some reading on which of the two major theologies fits you best. I feel there is a right one, but I am not to shove my opinion down anybody's throat. I really think you need to pick one though before you can truly start to follow Christ, because you need a foundation to stand on, and a theology is that foundation. |
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Some folks will tell you with confidence they are "saved." Here's what Jesus said about that: Matt.10:22 — And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matt.24:13 — But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mark.13:13 — And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. The best we can hope to do is follow Christ's example. |
| I don't think you can take one gospel and state that is what "you" have to do. Again, it all comes down to what theology you want to believe in. So do some research into both of them and choose what you feel you believe in your heart. Calvinism will tell you that it's not what "you" do to be saved, it's whether or not God has chosen you as the elect who will be saved. Armenian theology is more based on what you do in your life is what will save you. |
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For me it was when I started attending church and Sunday school with my girlfriend (who later became my wife). She'd been raised in the church and it was always a part of her life. I was raised Catholic but didn't ever really feel anything during mass. I thought I was broken. I always believed in God but never felt His presence. We went to a very good non Denominational (leaning toward Presbyterian) church with her and never looked back. My baptism was a truly humbling - and awe-inspiring - experience. I've been tested in the years since then and like to think I've come out a better person for it. I haven't been to a church in a while now, but I need to find one local to me. I moved about 18 months ago and haven't found a "home" yet. Now. Is it ever too late? I don't think so, as long as you are sincere. But you can't live a life full of sin, knowing full well you should be praying and living a good Christian life, and then expect all to be forgiven when you die... (edit: After seeing Matt (Valheru)'s post I have to amend this: My salvation came via very strange, circuitous route that both my wife and I still laugh about... If I hadn't met her I honestly don't know where I'd be right now. God clearly put us together.) |
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I accept that religion is a personal matter and I have always felt that a persons choice is a personal matter . This is kind of making things difficult as if I am prying info or something . I guess the least offensive way of saying that is I hold that a personal relationship with your religious choice seems better to me than an organized doctrine to follow . Man this is hard to discuss with out sounding like I am trying to troll or something . I am just in a weird spot in my head right now , and trying to make sense of some things . I don't believe I have the knowledge I need to figure it all out right now , so I am looking for some other perspectives of things . |
What is it that troubles you? You might be asking these questions for a reason... |
Where to begin? I have not lived a productive sin free life , but I have done the best I can . I made it through a lot of things I don't think other people could have , but I have been close to being broken to many times to count . I am intelligent enough to know I have a self destructive personality . I just want to be able to live a more humble life with out all of the pain bottled up inside clouding my judgment in my day to day existence . In short I feel as if I am looking for answers to questions I don't even know . |
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Don't get too hung up in the sinful life. Even if you live a good Christian life, you will still sin. Nobody, and I stress nobody is without sin, except God. Being a good Christian though is recognizing that you are a sinner and that you are broken, and asking God for forgiveness of those sins. Adam and Eve lived sinless lives, up until Eve took the apple. Ever since then human kind has been born into sin. You will sin until the day you die and go to heaven, but it is through Jesus Christ that you are forgiven of those sins. |
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John 1: 1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 ¶ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. 9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. God gives every man light. Every man receives a measure of faith. God is doing the seeking. Man responds in humility and belief, trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and is saved from the eternal penalty of sin. ETA: Or man rejects God's mercy, love and grace and receives God's judgment, condemnation and wrath instead. |
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You sound ready for a change for the better.  And a little down. That's why I want to talk with you more.
Nothing any of us can say will change that... But I CAN say that you feel an immense burden lift off you when you are Saved. I did. And knowing that Christ died for my sins, and will wash them away, is very comforting and uplifting.
You probably don't! That's not anything to be self conscious of... Let's talk it out though. Sometimes that helps too.
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ROMANS 3:23 ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD!!!!! Acts 16:31 Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. There is only one thing, one work, one sacrifice that paid our sin debt, and that is Jesus Christ's work at the CROSS. It was done for those who believe in him and that he rose again like scripture says. I believe GOD is calling you. He's talking to you. Get a Bible, read John. Your life will be changed. If not, then I'm full of it. I just know what happened for me. It's not too late. I grew up in a broken family. My father was an alcoholic and seemed like he didn't love me. My Mom divorced him. She was involved in the Catholic Church real heavily and they shunned her for this and wouldn't let her read scripture after that. When I got older I used that little bit to be "offended" about Christianity. And I was an atheist. So to speak. I mocked my family members that were Christians. I live a very sinful life. After High School I drank alot, I smoked pot, I was into music. Playing at dive bars. Sleeping with women I shouldn't have. I had some scruples but not enough to mention. I got to the point that life didn't seem to have any meaning and I believe the Devil had me right where he wanted me because I was suicidal. I almost blew myself away but a friend of mine came and picked me up when I called him desperately and at that point, God started slowly making his way into my life. That friend was a Christian but he still got drunk with me and talked with me. At one point it came about that he thought I'd go to hell, because I wasn't a Christian. I was mad at him but things just progressed. He was planting seeds in my life. Over time GOD whittled away at the walls I put up against him and I eventually saw a Speaker named David Ring give his testimony. He is a evangelist with Cerebral Paulsy. Everyone made fun of him except his Mom and his Mom died when he was real little. And someone invited him to church and he got saved. He was scared, lonely, and had what most of us consider a plight. Yet God turned his life around and he got married to one of the prettiest girls on his Christian College Campus. God can do amazing things. I got saved, turned my life around got married and have 2 wonderful children. I would probably be dead if it wasn't for God and I mean it. My life is not perfect now, but it's way better than going it alone. I've had real health issues lately and if it wasn't for my faith in God, it would be really tough. It's tough as it is, but I know he is watching over me. |
God found me. I was raised in a CHristian home, so there were environmental influences, no doubt. But that was God's doing, not my parents. Even they will tell you that. I was saved at age six. From six till about 13 I frequently doubted my salvation. Then, God showed me from His Word that my salvation was HIS work, HIS doing, and rested in HIS sufficiency, not my own. It was Christ's finished work on the cross that purchased my redemption from sin, and made me alive unto God. God gave me faith, I beelived, and that faith was sufficient for salvation, because God made it sufficient to satisfy His righteous demands.
When you are dead, it is eternally too late. Trouble is, no man knows the date of his own death (excepting of course those on death row, and the like) |
Question: So if I elect to receive God's judgment, I will be condemned and subjected to His wrath instead. If I go on and assume I will receive God's mercy and love, I will goto heaven. Did I read this right? |
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I wasn't looking for it. I can say that it's more like God is looking for you, and reaches out to each of us in ways that only we would recognize as individuals. When we are at a moment of clarity and can cut through the static noise and distractions, we are at the most opportune condition to hear/see Him. For me it was a series of inexplicable circumstances that I could not remotely calculate the layers of statistical improbabilities, but that they were very much real and all pointing towards Christ/God/The Bible, etc... It was most definately not in a or as the result of "church". It was and continues to be a very personal relationship with Christ. |
You're fallen from birth. You have a free will choice. You can remain fallen, or you can accept the mercy and love. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, almost nonsensical, but freedom comes from choosing to submit yourself to God. |
From a Biblical perspective, God elects men to salvation. Without Christ, we are dead in our sins, and you know what dead men do - nothing. God comes along and breathes life into those of His choosing - which some perceive as patently unfair. Two responses exist fot that thinking - 1. What is unfair is that God saves ANY of us. We all have rejected Him, we all have actd hostilely to Him. 2. I have yet to see a sinner who is begging to be saved, and God does not save them. Rather, the unsaved rejoice in their rebellion against God. Scripture presents a dualism that is not easy to reconcile - that God draws men to Himself, and no man comes to God unless God draws him. AND.... God has given man enuf knowledge of the truth that man is culapble for not coming to salvation. This cannot fully be explained, but is the picture Scripture presents. Scripture also communicates something else - election is the province of God. Repentace is the province of man. We let God handle the election business, and we rather just focus on repenting when the truth is presented to us. |
Stop taking things out of context. God gives every man light. Every man receives a measure of faith. God is doing the seeking. Man responds in humility and belief, trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and is saved from the eternal penalty of sin. ETA: Or man rejects God's mercy, love and grace and receives God's judgment, condemnation and wrath instead. |
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Very simple. Let the Bible speak for itself, and interpret itself. Ephesians 1, 1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: note "in Christ Jesus" - this is written to those already IN Christ 2 Grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 ¶ Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ: again, those "in Christ" receive all spiritual blessings 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Now here is the rub. The vast majority of Calvinists will misquote this verse. They will say "chosen us before the foundation of the world." They conveniently leave out the qualifying term "in him." Men are not elect until they are IN CHRIST. They are not IN CHRIST until they repent of their sins and trust in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. They are not ELECT until they repent of their sins and trust in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Who are predestinated? Everyone? Most to hell and a few to heaven? Not what the text says. In context, those who are predestinated are referred to as "us." And the "us" are those IN CHRIST. And those predestinated - those who are IN CHRIST - are predestinated to become adopted. Men are not predestinated to go to heaven or to to go hell. 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Again. Who are those accepted? Those IN the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; And yet again..."in" whom we have redemption.... 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: "in himself" 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him: "in Christ" and "in him" 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Who gets the inheritance? "In whom" - those IN Christ. Who is predestinated in the passage? Those IN Christ. 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Who is in Christ? Those who TRUST HIM 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Note the order: hear first, then trust. Hear first, then believe, then sealed with the Spirit. 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. When you let the Bible speak for itself, you won't find Calvinistic election or predestination. BIBLICAL election is surely in the Bible, as is BIBLICAL predestination. But the two are hardly the same. Now the first paragraph of Ephesians of chapter 1 is where Calvinists think they get their doctrine. They don't do much with the second paragraph (as far as systematic theology goes), but here it is anyway: 15 ¶ Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. |
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at about 18, I realized I had no real purpose in life, other than life itself. Like going to school just to go, not to eventually move on to something useful. I concluded that either there was a purpose, or there wasn't. If there was, I needed to find it. If not, I would check out and save myself the trouble. Seek, and you shall find. Knock, and it will be opened unto you. He paid the laborer who started in the last hour the same as the first. -grommet |
Most Christians feel as if it is their job to share their faith with you. Jesus said in Matthew 28: 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. One easy verse to remember about salvation is Romans 6: 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The important word to see here is Lord. You have to accept what Jesus did when He willingly went to the cross for our sins and trust Him as LORD. There is no magical prayer that automatically saves you, you simply accept what Jesus did and allow Him to be LORD of your life. Your relationship with Christ is a personal relationship but you should seek out a body of believers to become a part of. So many of those hard times are much more bearable when you have brothers and sisters in Christ to comfort and encourage you. As you grow in Christ you will become one that comforts and encourages others. It is a good feeling to know that the Lord has used the situations that you have gone through and allowed you to minister to others in like circumstances. Talk with people you know that are committed Christians. Visit Churches and request to have a one-on-one meeting with the Pastor. My Pastor loves it when someone who is visiting comes to meet and learn more about what the Church is all about. The Pastor could also help you deal with some of your hard questions. Most importantly don't let people get you down about Church. We read in Hebrews 10: 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. Some things that don't make sense will only make sense when you take that step of faith. Some of these things, you will never be able to figure out alone. Prayer sent for your guidance. Nick |
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At some point in my personal growth, I came to an understanding that if there was a God, he was nothing like the concept that most people held. Jehovah is no different than any of the other models people throughout history have used to conceive of God. "A man, but bigger." I do not believe in a God in that sense. I do not disbelieve in God either. I don't use a fixed logical system, which is hard for a lot of people to understand. I can discuss things from any perspective by adopting different belief sets as appropriate. To Christians, I am a Christian. To Buddhists, I am a Buddhist. To Atheists, I am an Atheist. The labels don't really matter, though. We are all Human Beings. Mohammed said, "All mankind is one family, one people.” and I agree with that. I think that people like Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, and the other prophets and teachers were wise and faithful men. Their words are true, pure, and good. The trouble is that their words get twisted by the Tyranny of Evil Men and these mislead many. If I read, "Love thy neighbor as thyself.” do I really need any interpretation? Do I really need a tremendous religious machine to save my soul from damnation? No. Not really. I don't need councils or high priests or bishops or Popes interposing themselves between myself and my universe, nor do I need them to make up lies and declare them Divine Mysteries that cannot be understood by my poor, sinful soul. I do not need grandiose buildings, where God does not dwell, to feel like I am in the presence of God. I do not need to kneel before a large idol of a crucified man to feel like I am following the precepts of a religion that forbids idolatry. I do not need to be 'saved'. I was never 'lost' in the first place - and if the priests ever stopped telling that lie, then their palaces of idolatry would crumble and there really would be peace on earth. Shane |
| Interesting interpretation criley. I don't agree, but you are free to interpret it any way you wish. Whatever the Holy Spirit leads you. I'm not sure why you glossed over 11 and 12 also. I don't wish to argue about it though, you can believe what you want. The most important thing is that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, his work at the cross for our sins, his resurrection, and our belief in all of that and acknowledgement of his Lordship in our life. |
No one is entitled to interpret the word of God any way he or she wishes. That would make the scripture meaningless, and make the word of God subject to the whims of men. I don't think I glossed over 11 and 12, but am certainly willing to discuss them further. 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Verse 11 addresses those who are already "in Christ" as the verse begins "In whom." The reference to "predestinated" also applies to those "in Christ." Now that is not my interpretation, that is what the passage says. As i pointed out, the entire paragraph is speaking to those already in Christ. And again, that is not my interpretation, that is what the scripture states. The Bible warns of those who would preach another gospel or preach another Jesus. A Jesus who is not the saviour of all men (The Jesus of Calvinism offered a limited atonement and is only willing to save the "elect") is not the Jesus of the Bible. A gospel that says men are born again BEFORE they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Calvinism teaches that men must be regenerated before they believe) is another gospel. |
Calvinism doesn't teach that. I can see the bee in your bonnet is justified, but not against Calvinism. |
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It might be a simple way of looking at the issue, but this is what I believe the Scriptures say: 1. God created the universe, man included. 2. Man rejected God's plan by sinning against God's commandment. 3. To restore man's relationship with Himself, God sent His Son to offer himself a sacrifice, to pay man's sin debt. 4. Any man that accepts this payment and asks forgiveness of his sins is accepted back into God's family. Many times people like to add a bunch of bells and whistles to the message of Scripture, but I believe this is the base model. And the base model will still get you where you need to go.
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Calvinism does indeed teach just that, and from your earlier post it would seem that you agree:
Calvinism teaches (in its doctrine of total depravity) that men are incapable of belief before they are regenerated (and Biblically, that IS the new birth). Loraine Boettner was (deceased) an acknowledged expert/teacher of Calvinism (Reformed theology). In his words: "Fallen man sees nothing desirable in “the One who is altogether lovely, the fairest among ten thousand.” He may admire Jesus as a man, but he wants nothing to do with Him as God, and he resists the outward holy influences of the Spirit with all his power. Sin, and not righteousness, has become his natural element so that he has no desire for salvation." " Here we are plainly told that man in his unregenerate, unenlightened nature does not know God in any sense worthy the name, and that the Son is sovereign in choosing who shall come into this saving knowledge of God." “In the Epistle to the Ephesians Paul declares that prior to the quickening of the Spirit of God each individual soul lies dead in trespasses and sins. Now it will surely be admitted that to be dead, and to be dead in sin, is clear and positive evidence that there is neither aptitude nor power remaining for the performance of any spiritual action. If a man were dead, in a natural and physical sense, it would at once be readily granted that there is no further possibility of that man being able to perform any physical actions. A corpse cannot act in any way whatever, and that man would be reckoned to have taken leave of his senses who asserted that it could. If a man is dead spiritually, therefore, it is surely equally as evident that he is unable to perform any spiritual actions, and thus the doctrine of man‘s moral inability rests upon strong Scriptural evidence.” "And such being the depth of man‘s corruption, it is wholly beyond his own power to cleanse himself. His only hope of an amendment of life lies accordingly in a change of heart, which change is brought about by the sovereign recreative power of the Holy Spirit who works when and where and how He pleases. As well might one attempt to pump a leaking ship while the leak is still unmended, as to reform the unregenerate without this inward change. Or as well might the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots, as he who is accustomed to do evil correct his ways. This transfer from spiritual death to spiritual life we call “regeneration.” It is referred to in Scripture by various terms: “regeneration,” a “making alive,” a “calling out of darkness into light,” a “quickening,” a “renewing,” a taking away of the heart of stone and giving the heart of flesh, etc., which work is exclusively that of the Holy Spirit. As a result of this change a man comes to see the truth and gladly accepts it." As I correctly stated, Calvinism teaches that a man must be BORN AGAIN before he can believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a complete reversal of scripture. In the Bible, belief comes BEFORE salvation (although the salvation that follows belief is instantaneous.) Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And Jesus specifically contradicts the conclusion of Calvinism - the dead CAN and DO hear Jesus' voice and then they CAN BELIEVE: Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Note the order: the DEAD first hear, and THEN they live. |
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I think the mistake in your exegesis is the assumption that any single verse contains the whole of the Biblical truth of salvation. For instance, this verse says nothing of faith or repentance. Yet it is clear both faith and repentance are necessary for salvation. Were we to adopt your "single verse" interpretational standard, we could argue that neither faith nor repentance isnecessary - all that is needed to "live" is to "hear." Many other scriptures teach us that Eph 2:1 You were made alive when you were dead in transgressions and sins, So, it seems Blblically allowable that in between the dead state and the hearing state of John 5 is the "made alive" work of Christ in us of Eph 2. In fact, Scripture allows that regenration (being made alive) and hearing might actually be the same thing. e |
Call it whatever you like Criley, but I had no wants or wishes to be part of God's Kingdom. In fact it was quite the opposite. I believe he pulled me to him. And before that, I was a dead man. My conversion totally fits the description that you are arguing against. And yes, there are a few things in scripture that people will disagree on. Whether you think I'm going to heaven or hell for it doesn't matter none to me. What matters is what Jesus, my Savior thinks. 
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First, I find it not unusual that those who demonize Calvin do so NOT from his own words, but from someone they CLAIM is Calvinistic in his approach. How 'bout you bring me something Calvin actually wrote, if you wanna claim Calvin teaches this or that? Now, to the point at hand..... The Scriptures say...1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. So we see there must be a regenerative work of God to enable man to beleive. But your claim was Calvin taught regenration BEFORE belief. To my recollection, Calvin taught that from a human PoV it would seem logical that "dead men" must be made alive before anything else can happen, but that in practical terms as Scripture presnts it, belief / regeneration / salvation / faith / repentance all happen so simultaneously and in a spiritual manner as to be indeterminate as to when exactly they happen in relation to each other. But if you'd present an ACTUAL citation fo Calvin for us to consider, I would be glad to do so. Point being.... Calvin is demonized mostly for thigns OTHER PEOPLE say he said, rather than for what he actually said. This is both unfair, and unfortunate. Not that I'm too excited about defending Calvin Fact is, he is a sinner, and for this reason alone will be wrong in his doctrine SOMEWHERE. But, Calvin brought much that is good to the body of Christ, and to demonize him without basis is to cheat the church of a great man of God. To claim that Calvin preached "another Gospel" is simply a scurrilous accusation. |
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... Good point, thank you for the question: For clarification, I am unconvinced that the facts are there |
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Good thread. I got saved when I was 6 almost 7. It was at the kitchen table. This verse should be mentioned. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. The Bible doesn't say that God picks a few, it states that he wants all to come to him through Christ Jesus. |
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How did I find Salvation? I pray once a week on average. I rarely attend Church, because I believe God is all around us. I believe that God did not create us to live in fear of sex, foul language, love, or free thought. I help others, because I believe that is the right thing to do. I believe in evolution, but I believe that evolution answers the question of how we were created, but not who created us. |