[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Masons (Page 1 of 6)
Posted: 1/4/2006 7:57:49 AM EDT
| Does anyone know the core beliefs of the Masons. I know one can be of any relegion and be a Mason, but what does Masonry teach about God and salvation? Does anyone know their theories on the beginning of humanity? |
the core beliefs of the Masons - Freemasonry, as a Fraternal Organization, serves to make good men better, not to take bad men and make them good. Freemasonry has allegorical lessons about morality, behavior, etc. Freemasonry requires that each man that joins has a belief in a Supreme Being, GOD. Freemasonry is by it's very defination not a Christian organization. That is not to say it is anti-Christian, it is non-demoninational in it's membership. That said, there are Christian only degrees contained in the Knight Templar lessons of the York Rite, membership in which requires the person to be a Christian. That is why you will likely find more Scottish Rite members that York Rite members because our non-Christian brethren can join. To become a Shriner the man must be a Master Mason (3rd Degree) and a member of either the York Rite (Knights Templar) or the Scottish Rite (32nd Degree). The Highest Degree of Freemasonry is that of Master Mason, the 3rd Degree. All branches of Freemasonry, Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shrine, Knights Mason, etc., are additional education, not better than. what does Masonry teach about God and salvation - nothing, Freemasonry is NOT a religion, it is a Fraternal Group. their theories on the beginning of humanity - again, this is not taught because Freemasonry is NOT a religion, it is a Fraternal Group. Any other questions? Feel free to ask. Thanks. CheapTrickFan, PM, PHP, PTIM, PC KM, 32° AASR, AAONMS & a Kentucky Colonel! |
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Yep. What my Brother said!  Eric The(EternalFraternal)Hun 
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Cheaptrickfan, Thanks for the response. I have been thinking about joining, but have heard that many Masonic symbols are anti-Christian. I was wondering how much of that is true. It would seem that many of these claims are made by ignorant people. When I look at the names of some of Masonry's finest, it is really impressive. All good honorable men. But most are not what I would call "hardcore" Christians. Many, like G. Washington, are God fearing men, but not overly Christian. They seem to refer to God with names like "divine providence" but not in a particularly Christian manner. I am also a bit concerned about what seems to be many Islamic references in the Shriners. Am I wrong about this? I know that the building of Solomons Temple is central to Masonry. I also know that the Ark of the Covenant plays a big role as well. Since these two themes are so important to Masonry, how can they NOT teach something about the Creator? Thanks in advance for your response. |
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The symbolism in the Shrine (Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine) were devised as something "exotic" when the Shrine was formed in 1872. Much of the world enjoyed the stories of Arabian adventurers, flying carpets, ancient pyramids, etc. Every organization needs something to make it stand out, and the men that set-up the Shrine chose a unique theme, which continues to this day. King Solomon's Temple, the Arc of the Covenant, and many other "things" are used symbolically in the lessons and stories used to teach about the tenants of Freemasonry. There are many items used, the Square, the Compasses, etc., that are part of the lessons. Kind of like the "moral of the story" - well, the working tools of a Mason are symbolic and are part of the story. As far as "not teaching" about God, or the Creation, there is some information given about the Creator, GOD, but it is not a teaching/preaching as you would find in church. The Masonic Fraternity is just that, a Fraternity - it is not a Religion, and does not formulate or instruct in religious matters. Much the same way the Moose, Lions, Redmen, Odd Fellows, etc., have their rituals, stories, lessons, or whatever, the Freemasons have instruction on morality but does not instruct on the proper way to worship GOD nor does it teach about Salvation, etc. If you are looking for a Spirit Filled, Salvation Praising, Scripture Reading organization, then do not join any of the Fraternal Groups and head directely to your local Pentecostal/Assembly of God/Whatever Your Choice Is Church. I would like to see the membership in Freemasonry rise, but not at the risk of losing the quality of men that join. Many an aspirant have been voted against if they have been found to be a man if ill repute. Wife beaters, child molesters, drug pushers, thugs, gangstas, killers, whatever, will never be knowing admited into the Fraternity. Freemasonry is not a rehab facility for criminals - that's what prison is for, or in your context, the role of the Church, Religion and Christianity (save the soul of the bad guy!). If a bad guy joins Freemasonry and it is later discovered, then there are rules of procedure to remove that man and terminate his membership. (and this HAS been done!) I don't know where you live, but I am sure that in your town there is a Lodge. Go to the Lodge and talk to the secretary and get a couple of books/magazines, maybe even a video tape. If you decide to join, ask one of the Masons you meet for a Petition (application). As an aside... regarding the Islamic imagery thing... the whole story about the city of Fez and the dipping of the caps in the blood of murdered Christians by rampaging Arabs is untrue. The event never took place. The time-line given is wrong and literally an impossibility for Christians to have been in Fez, or the country for that matter. It is just another in a long line of anti-Masonic lies (I won't go into all these right now, suffice it to say I wrote a book about this topic in 1995, I might post some of the stuff later, if there is a need for it). |
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I am not a Freemason but I know people who are. Freemasonry, as I understand it, is basically what Cheaptrickfan said it was. It is not, as I understand it, anti-Christian or anti-anything, though I know Christians who's construct of Christianity is such that just about everything is anti-Christian. Some of these folks claim that Freemasonry is a Satanic one-world conspiracy. To-these folks I would simply say, look at my father in-law in his recliner. This is not a man who conspires to control any large portion of the earth. While Freemasons maintain that Freemasonry is not a religion, I believe it has deep roots in what today is called religion. I believe that Freemasonry owes a great deal to the ancient mystery religions like the Pythagoreans and as such uses symbolism and mathematics to convey philosophical teachings. Like the Pythagoreans, there are various levels of initiation so that one who has been given the outer myths does not necessarily yet understand the inner mysteries. Paul called this giving milk before meat and it was also the nature of early Christianity to have outer myths and inner mysteries because Christianity was also an ancient Pagan mystery religion. Today, however, Christianity has abandoned its inner mysteries and condemns them as a Gnostic heresy, having kept only the outer myths, claiming them to be historical. In this sense, though allegedly not a religion, Freemasonry is more Christian than the majority of the Christian churches in the world today. |
Really? From what I read here and elsewhere, Freemasonry might require a belief in a Supreme Being but it has nothing to say about the son of said Supreme Being - therefore by definition cannot be Christian. |
The Masonic Fraternity DOES NOT preach any Gospel nor does it promote/demote Jesus Christ. The only time Jesus Christ "comes into play" is in the degrees and belief requirement of the Knights Templar of the York Rite. Again, Freemasonry is a Fraternal Group - not a Religion. If you are looking for a Christ oriented group, then you need to join a church or bible study, not a fraternal orginization. If you feel the need to witness to others, to save people, to preach the Gospel, then DO NOT join the Masonic Lodge!!! Yeah, Yeah... everything revolves around Salvation, Christ, GOD - I know, and so do many other Christian Masons. The purpose of the Lodge is NOT to preach or convert but to create a brotherhood of men with like minded ideals and morals. If you have a strong desire to convert and save, then you need to start with the gangsta/rapper/wannabes!! SAVE THE CHILDREN!!! |
In Gnosticism, what one says or believes is not as important as what one knows through experience. One does not follow an external Christ as much as one resurrects the Christ in one's self. As Paul said, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of* the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. " Galations 2:20 *note: it does not say faith in the Son of God, but faith of the Son of God, there's a very important difference. In Freemasonry one experiences the resurrection when one is raised from an Entered Apprentice to a Master Mason. It is not necessary to believe in the resurrection of another when one has been resurrected one's self. This is the experiential nature of all the ancient Pagan mystery religions. Christianity was once one of them. To the extent that Freemasonry still is it is more like the original Christian church than the modern literalist churches that demand faith in the literal nature of their myth. These churches are all milk but no meat. They teach the outer mythology but do not provide any inner gnosis. Just as Paul said, one need not physically die to experience the resurrection. The resurrection happens when one crucifies one's lower self and resurrects the Christ within. Pagans did it in their mystery religions and Christians did it in Paul's day. The later, literalist 'Christian' church labeled this a Gnostic 'heresy' in its ignorance and in persecuting the Gnostic Christians almost eradicated the Christian gnosis. Faint echos still survive in institutions like Freemasonry. |
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I hate to disagree with my learned brethern... but... the truth is... Freemasonry has NOTHING to do with Worshiping the LORD JESUS CHRIST!!! Freemasonry is a Frateranl endeavor - not based upon a specific religious dogma and not owing allegience to any particular Diety. I apologise to my fellow christians in advance... but, what right do you have to claim you have the "answer" to life's questions... to SALVATION!!! - - - How do you NOT KNOW the Bible you rever is not flawed??!!! Men are flawed, the Bible was written by men... therefore, the words you hold most dear are flawed! More importantly... what if Christianity is a perversion of another religion? Won't you look foolish standing before the Lord GOD Almighty when you espouse your hatred toward your Muslim, Jewish, or Buddist Brethren??!!! GOD is a GOD of ALL - not a God of Books, or Science, or Sex... but a "GOD" OF AND OVER ALL! |
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I dont know much about it. To me its about as evil as the Webelos or Boy Scouts. I remember in the Scouts we had to say some oath to Akela or something like that and we had rituals. No one actually took the rituals seriously. My guess is the Masons are probably along those lines. I am not defending the Masons nor slamming them. I just dont know enough. I would prefer to stay away myself as I do not find it comfortable even pretendng to be in mock rituals or oaths. if they even do that. |
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As stated Supra... If you want a God Fearing Religious Experience - DO NOT JOIN THE MASONS! As a matter of Soul Saving - Do not join any frateral group. You have been brainwashed into the "religious" atmosphere. Any activity other than what you perceive as worshiping God or Christ is wrong and I will never change your point of view, so MOVE ON! DO NOT address this subject ever again! If you want to preach - pick a demographic to win over - DO NOT harass FREEMASONS! "WE" are not the "evil" you are seeking. I can debate and defeat any argument put forth by you anti-Masons 24/7/365 - Bring IT ON!!! (don't let the "handle" throw you!) |
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I looked into joining once mostly because a couple people I looked up to were members and I was curious. Undecided on whether to ask or not time went buy and I came into contact with Masons who didnt seem to exemplify the goal of making good men better. Even with all of the wild theories of Masonry the bottom line was that I couldnt commit to an organization who's values and ideas were not consistant based on my experiences with Masons Ive met. Theres good and bad apples in any group but at least when you go to a church you know the core beliefs of that church. When you register to vote you can claim party affiliation and you know that partys core beliefs. The only core belief in Masony I found was to make good men better and to give to the community. How do you commit to a group you dont know much about other than those two ideas when you see their members some good and some that say and do things that seem to go against those ideas? |
There are some Freemasons (Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas) who claim Freemasonry has "lost its way" having become less than it once was. Maybe, maybe not. Again, though I am not a Freemason, I think that Freemasonry is just what one makes of it. To its credit, it doesn't make any extraordinary claims because it can only really deliver what the individual Freemason is willing and able to seek and understand. I know some Freemasons who are only interested in the fellowship, and that's fine. That's exactly what they get. Some, however, like Knight and Lomas, demand much, much more and they are able to find it as well though not without some work and research. The impact of Freemasonry depends largely on the character of the Mason. During the enlightenment there were some remarkable individuals who were Freemasons and the impact of Freemasonry was enormous. Lately, things have been much quieter, but that does not mean they will always remain so. In any case, it is not Freemasonry itself that is great or small, good or evil, but the Mason that makes it so. |
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I just tire of the double-speak. For example, I've heard Masons say, "Freemasonry is religious, but it's not a religion." That's a cop-out. Let your yes be yes, and your no, no. Is there a spiritual aspect to it? Is it purely secular? Are spiritual principles taught? Is the Grand Architect of the Universe acknowledged? If so, just who is he? Are all religions seen as equal? The answers to these questions are important for those who take their faith seriously. |
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It shows the difference in attitudes toward spiritual truth being absolute or undefined. |
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The bottom linie for me: I considered becoming a Mason. As I researched it (I don't make decisions to join organizations lightly) I evaluated it in light of my Christian faith, which is the rule for my life. I found to many conflicts between the two, so I didn't join. That's the way it is. |
The Bible is used in many Lodges, however in Lodges where Christianity is not the predominant faith, the Quran, Torah or other Holy Writings are used. In some lodges, there are multiple books of Holy Writings used. I presume you are a Christian, probably born-again, and are having a difficult time understanding why anybody would belong to a group that isn't Christian or Christ focused. That's fine. I don't like going to church, never have. I was raised as a Catholic but sometime during the mid-80s my folks became born-again and forced all of their offspring to attend all the Pentecostal stuff they were into, bible study, youth groups, speaking in tongues, spirit filled healings, etc. I just don't buy into the whole scene. If you are saved and comfortable and growing spriritually that's great. God bless you. Feel free to pray for me, but don't try the saving/converting thing because I'm not interested. As far as the "name" of God - I view GOD as GOD, ALLAH in my understanding is GOD, the same GOD as "GOD". Have you ever heard of "Shem Hammephorash"? Lord, Jehova, Jah, Yahweh, "I AM", etc., are all human names given to the Creator, GOD. Moreover, is GOD male, or female? As GOD is Creator why would GOD need a gender? GOD is GOD, the Alpha and the Omega, GOD has always been and will always be. |
Around here it is taking that direction....I feel bad as my father's generation were serious, now it is political. I am a 32 nd...and I walked away for that reason...but was members no the lodge. SOme of my Jewish Brothers have problems with the higher degrees, due to the singular reference to Jesus. But remember that the Masons are the offspring of the Knights Templar, who are the off spring of the Temple Guard OF Jerimiah. As for religion the Templars took a variance from the Church in that they started ot understand that G*d is G*d, and mankind is the one that puts the labels on... |
Yep. I'm a blood-bought, born again believer in Yeshua of Nazareth. I believe He told the truth when He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me." For clarification, I'm not trying to crap on this thread. My purpose here is to throw out some food for thought for other Christians on this subject. Non-Christians are free to ignore what I am saying (as I'm sure many Christians do also  ).
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The reason for secrecy is two-fold and is historical in my opinion. Many of the ancient mystery religions kept their rites and rituals secret as part of the division between outer and inner mysteries. Christianity was this way as shown by the letter from Clement of Alexandria concerning the Secret Gospel of Mark, “As for Mark, then, during Peter's stay in Rome he wrote an account of the Lord's doings, not, however, declaring all of them, nor yet hinting at the secret ones, but selecting what he thought most useful for increasing the faith of those who were being instructed. But when Peter died a martyr, Mark came over to Alexandria, bringing both his own notes and those of Peter, from which he transferred to his former book the things suitable to whatever makes for progress toward knowledge. Thus he composed a more spiritual Gospel for the use of those who were being perfected. Nevertheless, he yet did not divulge the things not to be uttered, nor did he write down the hierophantic teaching of the Lord, but to the stories already written he added yet others and, moreover, brought in certain sayings of which he knew the interpretation would, as a mystagogue, lead the hearers into the innermost sanctuary of that truth hidden by seven veils.” Another historical reason for secrecy is that when the literalist, western Church of Rome condemned as heresy all but its literalist understanding of Christianity it began killing folks who professed any deeper understanding of the Christian mysteries, though such an understanding has survived. Folks like the Cathars, or Knights Templar, who may have had an understanding of the Christian mysteries that differed from Rome’s either kept it secret or ran the risk of facing the Holy Inquisition. Many of the penalties of the Masonic oaths come directly from the tortures of the Holy Inquisition that were inflicted upon the Cathars and later the Knights Templar.
Umm, that’s close, but I think the difference is really between the ineffable and the definable. Mason’s say that the true word of the Master Mason was lost, so they use a substitute. I think the lesson there is that ALL religions are but approximations of the Divine nature which can not be summed up in any religion. Religion is simply a poor substitute for true knowledge of Divinity which can only be gained via experience. Freemasons, in saying that religious discussion in the Lodge is unMasonic, and in prohibiting sectarianism, are simply recognizing this fact. |
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As am I. You want to learn of Jesus Christ, then go to a Bible-based Christian Church. You want to belong to an adult fraternity for men which contributes $1.5 million each and every day of the year solely for the treatment and care of burned and handicapped children...then join the Masons. Simple as that. Eric The(EternalFraternal)Hun
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Neither my brother, who is even more hardshell fundamentalist than I am (if that's even possible), nor I have ever found anything in Masonry that would offend Jesus Christ. No more so then you would find in the Boy Scouts of America....which was founded along Masonic lines. And does anyone actually believe that the Boy Scouts is a 'Satanic' organization? Eric The(PoorWidow'sSon)Hun
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Yes - the libtards!!! The far left must believe that Boy Scouts is something horrible because the private organization limits its membership and (as far as I know) does not promote or condone homosexuality. Therefore, Boy Scouts are evil, horrible, and must either be destroyed or must assimilate into the libtard agenda. |
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I just find it odd that a fundalmentalist christian who rally so hard against the worship of idols can belong to an organization where idols and symbols are so openly used. And I would rather spend my time within my own church's organizations where I know the majority of my money and work is being used to further the Christian message and not the message of some other religion in direct conflict with what I believe. But if people want to be Masons let them, no skin off my back. However I think the main reason is like most mens groups...too drink. |
Actually - alcoholic beverages are prohibited in the Lodge and at Lodge Meetings. There are exceptions, but very few. If a member holds a wedding reception at the Lodge, and they want to serve wine or beer, they need to get a dispensation from the Grand Master - which doesn't happen very often, and has never happened to my knowledge and membership since 1992. Freemasonry does not have "idols" or false gods. There are no god-like idols anywhere. Again, Freemasonry is not a religion. As far as symbols - what is wrong with symbols? Nearly every company or organization has a symbol, and the .gov trademark office has a website where you can look them up. The symbols of Freemasonry are not worshiped or used in worship because, again, it is not a religion. The symbols are part of historical and morality stories. The symbols are visual items only and have no religious indications. There are clearly two distint groups that oppose Freemasonry - intollerant religious types (all or nothing christians, muslim extremists, etc.), and crazy-bad governments (communism, nazi, etc.). One thing I find interesting is the large number of christians that oppose fraternal groups, yet have guns and ammo. WHY? If your faith is so strong then you would not need to waste the financial resources buying weapons of death and destruction - that money should be tithed or given to help minister to the unsaved. |
I have no problem with symbols, but many fundalmentalist Christians do. That is what confuses me. As a Catholic they attack our use of symbols yet they then belong to a lodge like the Masons were there are many symbols. That is a contradiction.
I have no problem with faternity groups, I enjoy attending the Knights Of Colombus on occassion and plan on becoming more involved. What I am wondering is why some Christian men go outside their church for these faternities when most churches have a similar group themselves where true Christian works can be done just as well. And many people who do not belong to any organization still give money to churches and have enough left over for ammo. |
One of the fundamental ones is that Freemasonry, in its "philosophy" toward religion, makes all beliefs equal. Being a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, etc. is all the same in the end.Thus, the organization denies the Lordship of Jesus of Nazareth, making Him the equivalent of any other religious teacher. This is something I cannot accept and maintain a clear conscience before Him. If you are a Christian and a non-Christian Mason is in a life crisis, do you tell him about Jesus? Do you have to suppress endorsement of Christianity in the lodge? Would witnessing to him violate any Masonic principles? Do you have to wait until you are outside the walls of the lodge? What if a non-Christian, non-Mason was looking for something more in his life? Would your first instinct be to lead him to the cross or the lodge? I can't set aside my faith like that. My faith is the central feature of my life, forming the worldview with which I evaluate all things. Why? Because I'm arrogant and narrow minded? No. Because I've learned that I can trust Yahweh's guidance in all things. I've said my piece on this subject. There are those who will evaluate what I've said and accept or reject it based on its own legitimacy and merit. Then there are those who are stuck on transmit and will just counterattack. We've gone back and forth before several times and I'll not get drawn into just kicking at eachother. If you objectively consider my words and then don't agree with me, that's fine. I'm just explaining my position. You don't have to answer to me. |
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So, which has a position of higher authority in your life, your faith or the lodge? Answers of "neither" or "both" would mean Christianity is held in no higher esteem than the philosophies (or dare I say doctrines?) of the lodge. |
They are complementary. There is no reason to think that Masonry should be an "authority". There is no faith taught in the Lodge. You have a misconception that Masonry somehow detracts from your central belief system. I assure you, it does not. |
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EricTheHun and cheaptrickfan have handled this very well. There are excellent representatives of Freemasonry. I joined blue lodge almost 1 year ago and have gone through the degrees of scottish rite. One of my biggest concerns when I first was investigating masonry was that it would conflict with my religious beliefs. I have been very actively involved and have yet to come across anything that would conflict with any of my personal or religious beliefs. Masonry is not a religion, but does hold values found in religion, such as charity. In my year as a mason I have seen lots of that. We take care of each other, each other's families and complete strangers. There is more charity work than just the hospital, that is just the most visible. The Scottish Rite operates learning centers for children with learning difficulties that is free of charge. Scottish Rite Learning Center. Our lodge also does lots of charity work. We are often at the homeless shelters making soup and sandwiches and serving lunch. We spent a few weekends repainting and cleaning up yards of some elderly people in the community. We don't do it for publicity either. And just an aside for those that mentioned the Templar connection, I was talking to Brent Morris, editor of the Scottish Rite Journal and he said that current research indicates very little or no connection to the templar order. He is supposed to be e-mailing me some of the info. I read "Born in Blood" and bought that theory completely myself until I talked to him |
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Here goes nothing: Click here for another viewpoint Flame-suit is now on.  |
And there lies the problem. |
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Wow. I'm not even sure how to respond to that. The "facts" presented are so far off I'm not sure where to start. For starters it was 20th century satanists that adopted the pentagram as their symbol. I have been through 3 degrees of Blue Lodge Masonry and 29 degrees of Scottish Rite Masonry and have never heard the name baphomet or baal mentioned. Not even in any of my readings. The quote by Albert Pike is one of many that have been butchered to suit other people arguements against masonry. Here is a quote from a non-masonic website regarding his writings:
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