Posted: 10/23/2005 6:13:33 PM EDT
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This is a repost of a question I asked in the misconception thread. I promise not to attack your beliefs, I just want to see another perspective. I would like to see a Mormon answer to these questions,(and not a tag to a Morman website) If you are all christians, if you read the same bible, you believe in the same God, have the same plan of salvation, beleive in the same afterlife, etc... what is the point of your seperate church? To push another history book, to wear funny underwear, to live in communes, bigamy? These are honest question's and not a flame or mock. |
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We don't live in communes. I am in the military and commune life would kinda disqualify me from being stationed anywhere wouldn't it? As to your other question; you only have to look at all the churches in the world. We believe the system of beliefs of our church and not those of other churches. We believe that the doctrines taught are true and therefore there is a purpose to have a "separate" church as you say. Your question is like asking why there is more than one church, which is a good question, but you didn't ask that one  I can talk about that one later if you want. |
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While we have a lot of the major beliefs of mainstream Christianity, we have some other beliefs that set us apart. Continuing revelation, a living Prophet, an understanding of the nature of God, etc. We worship Jesus Christ, live by His teachings, and try to be more like Him. He is the head of our Church and we worship him with all our hearts. So, we're Christians. A common analogy is that the Gospel is like a piano. All churches have some of the keys on the piano, but through modern revelation, a living Prophet, and the Book of Mormon - which is another testimony of Jesus Christ, we have the full keys. Rachel |
OK I need more than that. What are your continuing revelations? What does your living prohet prophesy? What is the nature of God that mainstream Christianity doesn't get? What is in the Book of Morman that teaches something new to the world? I've treid to read it but it just seems like a history leason to me. Which keys are the mainstream church missing? |
Another analogy is that the Gospel is like a piano. All churches have pianos with 88 keys, except the Mormon church, whose piano, through modern revelation, a living Prophet and the Book of Mormon, has 91 keys, and is thus out of synch and out of tune with every other piano on the planet. |
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Revelations: There have been many - all of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price (writings of Abraham and Moses), the Book of Mormon itself, and many others. For example, in 1998 President Hinkley reiterated the need to stay out of debt, be self-reliant, and save a little for the 'stormy times' ahead. That was just before the .bomb. The early revelations detail the organization of the Church, following the pattern of the early church in the days of Christ, built on the foundation of apostles and prophets (See Ephesians 4), the order of the Priesthood (See NT where Jesus called the 12 and gave them power, and they followed suit by laying on of hands), the building of temples and the sacred ordinances to take place in them, and much more. Another example - that the Civil War would start in South Carolina, (1832) D&C 87: 1 1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; This did come to pass: On April 10, 1861, Brig. General Beauregard, in command of the provisional Confederate forces at Charleston, South Carolina, demanded the surrender of the Union garrison of Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Garrison commander Anderson refused. On April 12, Confederate batteries opened fire on the fort, which was unable to reply effectively. (http://americancivilwar.com/statepic/sc/sc001.html) The pattern of God caling prophets is not new. It is also not new that they are rejected by most people that hear them. Here is a brief chronology: (7 1000 yr periods called dispensations, each began by a major prophet and the end of a period of apostasy) Adam, called as the first prophet Enoch, and the City of Zion Noah, (rejection rate 99.99999%) the earth baptized with water Abraham - with whom God made a covenant to establish his people, Isaac & Jacob (Isreal), where the House of Isreal began Moses - the deliverer of the House of Isreal from bondage, bringing them into the promised land Jesus Christ - the dispensation of the Meridian of Time - the Atonement, followed on by the 12 apostles that brings us to the time before the Millenium, the dispensation of the fullness of times, see 'restitution of all things', Acts 3:21. This is about preparing the world for the 2nd coming of Christ, building his Kingdom here on the earth. Joseph Smith was called to begin this great work. You notice that there have been prophets on the earth since the beginning, and God has always communicated to the people through them. They have always been rejected, often by those carrying the torch of the mainstream religion. The Jews failed to recognize Christ as the Messiah, and just as he accused them of 'stoning the prophets', we see that modern prophets have been rejected by many. This is a trap all to easily fallen into, mostly because people have a tremendous tendency to let themselves by blinded by their traditions. Now let's go on to the nature of God. The principle example we have here is Jesus himself. He said he did nothing save he had seen the Father do it, and did all things according to the will of the Father. As such, the fact that he was resurrected is of monumental importance. His mortal body died, and three days later his spirit reentered it, changing it through the power he had over death into a perfect immortal body. He took great pains to let everyone know that he would 'live' again. We cannot therefore conjure up any notion of him somehow leaving behind that perfect immortal body, leaving behind one of the masterpieces of his life's work. We believe that he still has that body, that it is the model of our own eventual resurrection, and that when he returns, he will do so in physical form. It simply makes no sense for him to make such a big deal of the resurrection, and then turn himself into a spirit. What this tells us is that, because he followed the example of the Father in all things, the Father also has a physical body - one that is also perfect and immortal. This fits nicely with him being our father, and the many scriptures relating to the resurrection of each one of us. (see 1Corinthians 15) In this case, like father, like son refers to all of us. The Book of Mormon is historical, but it is also much more. It goes hand in hand with the Bible to clarify and expand Christ's teachings and his Gospel. If you have any doubt why this is needed, ask yourself why there are over 1000 Christian denominations. If the Bible were all that was needed to know the whole truth about Christianity and God's work here on earth, there would only be one, because there would be no need for disagreement. Most Christians do not consider the basic requirements for a true religion. Here are a few of them: - has to be functional for every single person that has ever lived on this planet - has to be available to be learned by every single person that has lived - cannot be both true and false, ie true for some but not for others - must leave open the option to be accepted or rejected by all - God is not a fascist - must provide solutions for everyday life and for eternal life - must be capable of elevating man above his natural tendencies in real, tangible ways - must be strongly opposed by the forces of evil You see your arms must be open very wide to take in everyone that has ever lived... Here are a few logical steps to go through - - Christ said he is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man would come to the Father but by him - He also said that except a man be baptized by water and the Spirit, he could in nowise enter the Kingdom of God - there are probably 50 billion people who have lived on earth with no oppotunity to have been taught the Gospel or to be baptized. - Most Christians believe that all of them will go to hell. - A true religion will provide a way for all to hear, for all to accept if they desire to do so, and for all to partake of the saving ordinance of baptism. Then you ask yourself, just why did they have temples back in the old days - well they had prophets back then that told them what to do in the temples - but maybe we should have temples today too - maybe we need them. Well you see this is where it all comes together - See the last chapter of Malachi, just before the NT. He said Elijah would come and turn the hearts of the children to their fathers and the hearts of the fathers to their children BEFORE the great and dreadful day of the Lord ( 2nd coming) and then you read in 1 Corinthians 15 a brief mention of baptism for the dead - it wasn't a mistake, just a common reference to what Paul knew they used to do in the temple. In the temples the living stand in the place of the dead and receive the ordinances on their behalf. This is the only way possible that everyone will have the chance and be able to comply with the strict rules that Christ set down. All those people that are dead and have not been resurrected are living in the Spirit World. In 1Peter 3 and 4 we see mention of Christ going to teach the spirits that were disobedient - we learn from modern prophets that what he did was to go there and organize a great missionary work - the ancient prophets and teachers were sent to teach all the rest who never heard Christ preached in their lifetimes. The keys you made mention of are the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood. They are the keys of baptism, of giving the gift of the Holy Ghost, of Priesthood ordination, of sealing of husband and wife for time and eternity, and the keys of temple work for the dead. In this way we cooperate with the Lord, using the power of the atonement, and his priesthood, to overcome our own sins and then help those around us, and our ancestors, to have the same blessings. When Isaiah said that the Lord's house would be established in the tops of the mountains, and how beautiful upon the mountains were the feet of those that published peace, that brought strength to the weak, and freed the captives from bondage, he was talking about a real place. Some Mormon-haters will say the only way to talk down an astute member of the churh is to destroy the credibility of Joseph Smith as a prophet. If you take the time to read all of the Book of Mormon, you will be able to judge if that work is of God or man. You will see that the book is not a testament of Joseph Smith but of Christ. You will begin to see that we have more need of close communication with God today than has ever been needed before, and you will see that as in days of old, he continues to work throught is servants, the prophets. I wish you well. -grommet |
HHHHMMMMMM..... reminds me of...... let's see..... Oh yeah - Noah and Moses and Isaiah and Christ. for strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it -Matthew |
It's obvious you are convinced of the importance of your churches teaching, but I don't see anything in your post that really answers my questions. First off, I'm not going to read all of your churches Doctrins and Covenants to find "new revelations", I'm asking you to tell me the things that are UNIQUE to your church. Reiterating the need to be debt free in 1998 isn't prophetic. If it is , then I'm a prophet too. Let me assue you I'm not a prophet. Predicting the Civil War would start in S. Carolina wasn't exactly a stretch either. Your time line of prophets has a few hole in it doesn't? what about all those 100-1000 year periods when when none of the prophets listed were on the earth? What difference does it make if God has a body or not? What is the point? I'm not going to argue why there are many denominations, that is irrelevent to this thread nor am I going to argue religion building 101. Again, I'm asking what does Mormonism bring to the table that the church doesn't ALREADY have? |
You don't seem like someone who's really looking for answers. Otherwise you'd be ernestly studying the cited examples to really learn what's in them. |
Why do you care? Are you writing a term paper on comparative religions? I doubt it. The structure of and words used in your "question" are obviously "mocking" and intended to "flame". Why don't you be a man and admit you don't like mormons instead of hiding behind the "these are honest questions" BS. |
Slow down for a minute. What makes you think he doesn't like Mormons? Shoot, maybe he likes 'em enough to try to get 'em to see the inconsistencies in their religion. Warning someone off the wrong road might be the surest sign ever that you 'liked' them.... |
So you're suggesting that postpostban's intentions really aren't about learning but rather he's trying to "help" the Mormons by convincing them that they're wrong. If that is your intention, postpostban, please state such from the beginning. Those who want to take you up on such a proposal will do so and the rest of us won't have our time wasted. |
Communes? What are you talking about? Bigamy? Haven't been any LDS plural marriages performed in about 135 years. Sounds like you're listening to fiction more than fact. Funny underwear? That may be a matter of taste. Somebody might find your underwear funny too. |
Dude, read the original post in this topic. I'm using HIS words. Sheeesshhhh. |
If I see someone wearing funny underwear and living in a commune, and I ask them why they do it, it doesn't mean I don't like them. So...yes, you are jumping to conclusions. Best I can tell, the original poster believes mormonism to be a false religion, and is trying to get them to justify their 'additions' to Christianity, possibly in an effort to get them to see their error. Whether he finds ssome of their customs to be humorous is irrelevant to the matter of whether he 'likes' them or not. Personally? I've never seen a mormon on ARFCOM post much of anything that would stop me from liking them. But I have serious misgivings about their beliefs. Do you find the two concepts - liking someone, yet finding their beliefs to be erroneous and in desperate need of correction - incompatible? |
Well gee wiz, I guess I don't find it incompatible at all. I'm sure there are plenty of Mormons who whould just love to sit down with you over a 
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Did you have a point? If you do, cut out the sarcasm, and make the point. Otherwise, why did you post here to begin with? |
Best answers I cna type out wiht a pounding Migraine, I will come back to this thread when I ma feeling better and maybe put a finr polish on my answers, as well as deal with spelling issues Edited because of a memory mixup on my part regarding NT and OT I did not bother with the spelling because I just can't be bothered right now |
I know the difference - and have very little doubt as to which category the original poster is in (I'm usually in the latter, myself, but have been in the former a few times..). But you asked the original poster:
There was NOTHING in the original post that justified you questioning the original poster's masculinity. Furthermore, there was NOTHINg in the original post that implied that the original poster 'didn't like mormons'. It's possible - no, likely - wait, make that probable that the original poster dislikes mormonism. No Christian who has ever made a semi-serious study of the Bible, and it's warnings against false teaching, has ever 'liked' mormonism. But to say he didn't like mormons (as individuals - not as the group they belong to) would be a pretty sizeable assumption. You know what they say about assumptions.  Case in point: I despise the democratic party. But my own sister is a member of that despicable organization. She believes her views to be correct. Needless to say, I disagree with her. Fortunately, I don't see her views on economics as being vital to the fate of her eternal soul.  But nevertheless, she is a member of an organization I despise.  Does that mean I don't like her? Certainly not! She's quite possibly my favorite person in the whole world. Even when she votes the 'wrong' way.  Does that seem impossible to you? To like someone, yet dislike something they're part of?  |
Citation, please? From the OT, I mean. |
TacticalPenguin probably meant the NT. 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 & 2 Corinthians 12:2 Then there is much more detail in modern revelation: D&C 76: 50-113 you can read it here:scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/50-113#50 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, this is a great example of how modern revelation gives The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints a unique understanding/doctrine. |
My mistake, I was thinking NT 1Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terretrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is anohter. 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. sorry about the NT OT mixup, Edited because Shane caught my messup, pain meds and memory do not go well together at all..... Thanks Shane |
No problem. I've had my share of migraines and it's almost impossible to think coherently while experiencing one. You have my sincere sympathy for what you're suffering. Oh, there's another type of literal hell: Migraines |
I feel for you. My wire has had 3 sinus surgeries. The next one they're going to do nasty things to her. Kind of like a face lift where they cut along the scalp and pull the skin on her forehead down so they can get to the sinus cavities behind there. Not a walk in the park...She's scared to death! I wish you all the best..Get well soon |
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Here's my 2 cents worth. 1Christian yes, debatable to some maybe. 2Same Bible KJV, LDS notes and crossreferenced. 3Same God, in word maybe. believe he is physical and really was the Father of Jesus. 4Same plan of salvation, close, ut salvation to us is a step not an end. 5Same afterlife probably not. We believe those who have done all they could do in this life can learn to be Gods in the next.(hence the God maker film) 6Funny underwear, maybe to some. 7Live in communes? 8Bigamy, thats my neighbors down the road, breakoff Mormons.(now if you want to talk about false prophets there is a study for you) To me the Church offers the best answers for lifes three great questions 1. Who am I ? 2. Why am I here? 3. Where am I going when this life is over. It's nice in the military because I know where ever I go I can find more like me outside the gate or on post. They will teach the same lessons I was learning when I left to where ever I may be. The country or language will not matter it is the same. There is something for every age all have a part. No payed ministers to wonder if they are skimming the plate so to speak. That means like me they are jugling family, school, church, hobbies etc. It is by no means a perfect organization it is ran by people. But as most know about church it is for the perfecting of Saints not for the perfect Saints. I could not get what I need out of a church anywhere else. The Catholic church would be the most likely. But I have a hard time believing the authority made it through to todays Pope. IMO Even if Joeseph Smith was a false prophet and the Book of Mormon was a Christian Novel I still think it is the best organized church around and I don't think I would be any less saved. So there you have it. There are many who wish to prove us delusional or on the wrong path. They need to be able to show me why they are right and not me or the Baptists or the Catholics or the Methodists or the Nazarenes etc. etc. etc etc...
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