Quoted: ...Why would all the activity stop?  There was enough activity 2000 years ago to fill up the Bible and ever since all is quiet?...

That's the beauty. It hasn't.

But you have to have faith, ask for it, and then be patient.

People come to God in prayer with a Christmas Wish List, generally only in desperate times of dire straits... rattle off all the demands that they have like some hostage taking bank robber, and then get all twisted up over it when all of their expectations aren't met exactly as they want according to their own timetable.

If you ask God what HE wants for you, and you are genuinely willing to obey/follow the paths that are opened, AND THEN MAKE GOOD ON IT, you will be quite amazed at the irrefutable, almost supernatural things that can and will happen on an almost daily basis.

Quoted: I'm lucky. I don't have a lot of whatever that brain hormone is called that prods people to find a higher power. [

burnt out by the LSD huh?

no reason to believe in god.

or any other cult.



a bible thumping coworker of mine caught me referring to the book as a ridiculous work of fiction.
he called me on it and brought me a copy to read, and notate the ridiculous parts.

by page 10, i had run out of room in the margins and had had to start writing over the text.




as someone else astutely posted, why assume the default setting should be belief that zeus, or any other diety of the day, will shove a lightning bolt up our ass if we misbehave?




the fact that hundreds, or thousands of religions exist, proves by simple logic, that at LEAST all but one of them are full of shit.
this fact has nothing to do with my disbelief, however.

unlike a previous poster, the theory of evolution got me on the pagan bandwagon at an early age (<10 yo).
looking at animals adapt over short and long periods of time really got me.

anyone else find religious guys using the slogan "the strong survive" funny?  the essence of evolution!




i don't think science has all the answers.  YET.  
i think the big bang theory, along with some of the other higher physics disciplines may be full of shit, but the world was round a long time before science said it was.




religion and belief in a higher power is for the feebleminded.

which explains it's popularity with the collective genius that is the general population.


and yes, mommy read me bible stories until i was old enough to start reading OTHER works of fiction on my own.


IBTL

sgtar, quit trying to hijack this thread into a debate.  There's a reason he made 2 posts, one for the religious and one for those who are not.

Stick to your own god damn thread.

he obviously wants to hear peoples opinions on both ends without other people starting to argue in the middle of it.  way to be classy.

Not trying to be a jerk, but why the double standard? Rodent and the other non-believers have sure taken their liberties in the 'other' thread.

Quoted: Not trying to be a jerk, but why the double standard? Rodent and the other non-believers have sure taken their liberties in the 'other' thread.

i'm pretty sure somewhere in "the great book" it says that 2 wrongs do not make a right.   i would have thought since the sarge has studied it and follows it, he would have known that.  must've been in that one passage he missed...  

i havent even opened the other thread because it does not pertain to me.  take it out with those who are doing it in that thread, not those who are giving their honest answers in this one.


But you know, thats just my opinion.  the opinion of a moral, non-religious individual.  if that can even exist.


edit:  and actually, i take it back.  i did open it once to see if it was the same question.  but i didnt read any responses.

I can accept that answer.

The Great Book speaks a lot about forgiveness.

Sorry to intrude.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm lucky. I don't have a lot of whatever that brain hormone is called that prods people to find a higher power. [ burnt out by the LSD huh?

Uhh no, not as such. ;)

There *is* a brain hormone that is a direct cause of the religous experience. The more you have the more "faith" you feel. Ever try to talk a True Believer out of their ideas? You simply can't. Not because they are solid as a rock. That's because for most religion is a chemical and not a thought you can get rid of. They're stuck with it. Think of all the deaths, all the wars, all the destruction that one little compound has caused throughout history. Wow.

Quoted: What made you not believe in a higher power? I am more concerned with what specific thing or things makes you firmly comvinced that there is no afterlife,etc?

I don't actively disbelieve in a higher power.  I merely find it unlikely that human religion describes the wants, needs or personality of such a being accurately.  What convinces me of this is the general lack of facts included in the beliefs of all religion...of course, I know Christianity the best, as that is what I used to be.  I do not believe there is any sort of meaningful afterlife because everything we know about the human personality tells us it is deeply rooted in our physical structure.

Were you raised in a non-religious home/environment?

My father was a Baptist preacher and ran a Bible college.

Were you raised in a moderately religious home/environment and had a does of reality that made you doubt anything that couldn't be proved by science?

No, my parents were ardent creationists.  The scientific establishment was considered an atheistic tool of Satan.

Do you have some inkling of faith buried deep inside you that you simply feel is enough and that you shouldn't have to worship and play all the other churchy religion games?

I have no faith in anything supernatural.  I do hold to a moral and ethical code, and if that's not enough for whatever supreme being may or may not exist...oh well.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm lucky. I don't have a lot of whatever that brain hormone is called that prods people to find a higher power. [ burnt out by the LSD huh? Uhh no, not as such. ;) There *is* a brain hormone that is a direct cause of the religous experience. The more you have the more "faith" you feel. Ever try to talk a True Believer out of their ideas? You simply can't. Not because they are solid as a rock. That's because for most religion is a chemical and not a thought you can get rid of. They're stuck with it. Think of all the deaths, all the wars, all the destruction that one little compound has caused throughout history. Wow.

What about when said higher power finds you when you're not even interested in looking for it ?  

Quoted: Quoted: Facts are sacred to me. All the religions I'm aware of are short on facts. If facts scare you then why did you let people run you off instead of going to the source?   IE  The Bible

I studied the bible.

I remember reading about people who lived for 900 years.

About someone who captured a pair of every species on earth, kept them alive on a boat, and reestablished breeding populations of all of them. (I defy anyone to duplicate that with even something as relatively simple as the species of beetles on a single acre.)

About a virgin who got pregnant. (I wouldn't believe my daughter if she tried that excuse, either.)

About a man who became a god. (Various pharoahs, kings and crackpots have claimed the same thing.)

It was entertaining and educational. I liked the Cherokee creation myth about the Great Turtle, too.

Quoted: Quoted: ...Why would all the activity stop?  There was enough activity 2000 years ago to fill up the Bible and ever since all is quiet?... That's the beauty. It hasn't. But you have to have faith, ask for it, and then be patient. People come to God in prayer with a Christmas Wish List, generally only in desperate times of dire straits... rattle off all the demands that they have like some hostage taking bank robber, and then get all twisted up over it when all of their expectations aren't met exactly as they want according to their own timetable. If you ask God what HE wants for you, and you are genuinely willing to obey/follow the paths that are opened, AND THEN MAKE GOOD ON IT, you will be quite amazed at the irrefutable, almost supernatural things that can and will happen on an almost daily basis.

You see, I hear Christians say this all the time...but it sure as hell didn't work for me.  There was a time in my life when I was totally lost and looking for direction---ANY direction.  I didn't ask to like it, didn't ask for a particular path that I preferred, I BEGGED God every day and night to show me a direction.  And He never did.  
I didn't cease believing in God at that point, I just shrugged my shoulders and decided that maybe God didn't have exact plans for every one of us and He just wanted me to be the best Christian I could be in whatever I decided to do.
Becoming an agnostic happened sometime after that and in a very quiet, unemotional way.

Quoted: myth about the Great Turtle, too.

Gamera?

I was a Born Again from 14 until I was 26. For a time (14yrs to 18) I was involved in a pentecostal cult. I describe them as a cult for a number of reasons. But the biggest are the "pastor" was not ordained and answered to nobody. Also they pretty much formade any contact support with frienda and family that did not attend. Anyway I got out of that but was still a very strong Christian.

Years passed. When I was 25 I was in church (Baptist) and the pastor was doing some reading in the old testament. What caught my attention was not his point but what he read. It was in Deut. 3 I forget the verse, but god commanded the people to kill every man woman and child in an enemy city.

I was thinking holy crap!!!! god told the jews to commit genocide!!! Aren't these the same people that bitch about what Hitler did to them?!?!?! This got me thinking.

I stopped going to church because I could not justify worshiping anything that ordered genocide. I decided to fully research the bible. I read the whole thing. I was hoping to confirm my beliefs.

My rules were simple for my study which took 2 years.
1. Any translation was valid. If the word of god was supernaturally protected as it is GODS WORD then there could be no mistakes and original language was not an issue. God can do anything and his word is the most important thing on earth. Any arguments against this are logically invalid.

2. All passages were to be read incontext of the situation and study on cultureal matters was needed  for much of the customs to find out what was going on.

3. I would not make appoligetic excuses for what I read. If god said that smurfs have sex 4 times a day while riding pink elephants on a balance beam then thats what it said. I was not going to white wash anything.

I also studied Muslim, Buhdism, Paganism and some other religions. (Mostly just overviews of the belief systems and interviews with members)

After 2 years of intense study I came to the follwoing conclusions.

1. The Bible condones slavery, genocide and many other henious acts.
2. God says that he will NEVER recind the law of Moses, yet Paul in the new testimant does just that.
3. God makes it a sin to drink blood or even to PRETEND to drink blood. Even pretending or substituteing something as blood is a sin. Jesus who is perfect breaks this law. Therefore he could not be sinless and could not be the Christ.
4. Faiths of all kinds use the same mind control techniques that cults use but in a diluted form.
5. The fear of death is used to keep the faithfull in line.
6. God says we all have sin (original Adam/Eve) and promisses us unending tourture if we do not believe in his son. THis is based on fear. Do what I say or I am going to fry you for an infinite number of years. Not exactly the Prince of peace.
7. God as described in the bible is a psychotic skitzophrenic.

I am now a very strong Agnostic.

I think that mankind does not have any idea what happens after we die. I think Athiesim is almost as wrong as theism. We just don't know. But we will ALL find out some day. I think it is OK that we do not know. Either there is no way to know what happens or we are not meant to know it untill the time comes.

I do not fear death, infact I am rather curious about it. But this natural fear of the un-known is what most religions use to control their followers. Please forgive spelling errors, long day.

Quoted: I remember reading about people who lived for 900 years. About someone who captured a pair of every species on earth, kept them alive on a boat, and reestablished breeding populations of all of them. (I defy anyone to duplicate that with even something as relatively simple as the species of beetles on a single acre.) About a virgin who got pregnant. (I wouldn't believe my daughter if she tried that excuse, either.) About a man who became a god. (Various pharoahs, kings and crackpots have claimed the same thing.)

Don't forget the desert life.  Of course, it is rather convienient that the locals discovered that the ground they coveted and constantly fought over was the 'holy land'.

If you ask me, Tahiti is the holy land...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ...Why would all the activity stop?  There was enough activity 2000 years ago to fill up the Bible and ever since all is quiet?... That's the beauty. It hasn't. But you have to have faith, ask for it, and then be patient. People come to God in prayer with a Christmas Wish List, generally only in desperate times of dire straits... rattle off all the demands that they have like some hostage taking bank robber, and then get all twisted up over it when all of their expectations aren't met exactly as they want according to their own timetable. If you ask God what HE wants for you, and you are genuinely willing to obey/follow the paths that are opened, AND THEN MAKE GOOD ON IT, you will be quite amazed at the irrefutable, almost supernatural things that can and will happen on an almost daily basis. You see, I hear Christians say this all the time...but it sure as hell didn't work for me.  There was a time in my life when I was totally lost and looking for direction---ANY direction.  I didn't ask to like it, didn't ask for a particular path that I preferred, I BEGGED God every day and night to show me a direction.  And He never did.   I didn't cease believing in God at that point, I just shrugged my shoulders and decided that maybe God didn't have exact plans for every one of us and He just wanted me to be the best Christian I could be in whatever I decided to do. Becoming an agnostic happened sometime after that and in a very quiet, unemotional way.

I don't know what to tell you Rik. I can only relate to my own experience wherein I came to God at a time when I wasn't looking for direction at all. It was truly my own free will under no duress from any aspect of my life. This is my own experience though. For someone who feels abandoned by God, I can only offer the story of a man named Job. Sometimes we have to go through a spiritual desert to come to understand our place with God on the other side. That's what I get from the story of Job.

Quoted: Quoted: water is made of 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen, that is fact.  Some words scrawled in a book might as well be the same as learning to speak Klingon....its a language and there is a story but Klingons are not real.  If you need religion to make your life go then so be it.....but BUT don't force your beliefs down my throat.....besides in your faith based religion only God can pass judgement right? Do you see me forcing it in this thread? Have you studied the Bible yourself and tried to recreate the spiritual experience everyone else says they recieved as a result of HONESTLY trying to follow it? That is how scientific research is done.  If you are not willing to research or investigate it then your conclusions are useless because they are arrived without study. Sgat1r5

The basis of your arguement is flawed.  Sincerely how do expect someone to duplicate the circumstances of the fabled parting of the Red Sea or the Noah Floods, Jesus walking on water or indeed turning water into wine.  These events that are alleged to have been observed by individuals who were alleged to have been inspired to write the Bible can't be duplicated.

As athiests we have no need to prove that God does not exist.   We know god does not exist not just your particular god but all of them.  In world history whole societies developed and crumbled long before Yaweh was even considered, indeed even after Yaweh was invented societies all around the world were developing with their own religious beliefs blissfully unaware of what Christians beleive to be the Omni-potent creator of the Universe.

If Yaweh were so Omni-potent why would he only tell a few people in a relatively small region of the earth about his great works when he was certainly not prohibited to tell the whole world?

Why would an Omni-potent being, being Omni-potent and all, rely on these individuals and the fools who believed them to use genocide, war and oppression as tools to spread his word on his creation?

Indeed if as you believe the Universe was created by this Yaweh as you believe, why did he fuck it up so badly.  Why are their four waring factions that believe in his Omni-potence?  Fuck he can't even get that straight.

The Baptists and the Catholics believe Jesus was the Messiah that fullfilled the prophecy of the Old Testament.  The Muslims believe Muhammed was the Messiah.  The Jews don't believe the Messiah has arrived yet and none of the Old Testament prophecies have been fullfilled and on a Global scale they are all at each others throats over it.

Religious people, especially Christians are all over "Proof denies faith." so you don't need any proof other than that fucking book.  Well according to what the inspired people who wrote that book God and Jesus certainly went out of their way too, as the story goes prove their divinty when 99.9999% of the world population were illiterate peasants so why not now?

I'll tell you why not now.  The Universe was not created.  It always existed.  There was never nothing nor will there ever be nothing.  Life was not created.  It happened.

Quoted: i have to laugh about this thread. Last night i was watching the simpsons were bart and lisa find a indian cave. Bart makes a comment about how crazy it is to worship deer, bears and the stars and that hes proud that now adays people worship a carpenter that lived 2000 years ago. If they could prove the bible is telling the truth i would be back in church sunday. but until that  day ill be watching football.

Indeed...

Ra, Odin, Zues come to mind.  They are commonly regarded as Pagan Mythology now but those religions existed long before the inspired authors of the Bible put pen to paper.

I consider myself agnostic ... logic tells me there is no supreme being - Show me a miracle of somebody parting the Red Sea or walking on water and I will believe.

I view all religion as a cult.  If as a child you are not brainwashed into believing there is a GOD and the fear of a horrible afterlife is not pounded into your head ... you are not going to be a religious person.

Religion is merely child abuse using emotional torment telling you blind faith is good and you must have the same beliefs as your parents or you are not a good person ...

Phooey ..

I consider myself agnostic ... logic tells me there is no supreme being - Show me a miracle of somebody parting the Red Sea or walking on water and I will believe. I view all religion as a cult. If as a child you are not brainwashed into believing there is a GOD and the fear of a horrible afterlife is not pounded into your head ... you are not going to be a religious person. Religion is merely child abuse using emotional torment telling you blind faith is good and you must have the same beliefs as your parents or you are not a good person ... Phooey ..

Well Said............I agree 100%!!!!!!!............

You religious folk claim there is an intelligent design to humanity.  Man and indeed the Universe was created by some Omni-potent entity.  As in at some point in time there was nothing then suddenly in the nothing an Omni-potent entity popped into existance.  Then out of shear boredom it decided to create something.

Even Science has promoted theories that there was once nothing and the Universe was created by a random, unexplained explosion in which nothing became something.

It is sufficient to say that humanity does not yet have technology capable of fully understanding our Universe or answering the age old questions like why are we here?  What is my purpose?  It is even more sufficient to say that the simple minded explanations given by a bunch guys who lived over 2000 years ago and believed the Earth was flat, the Universe revolved around the Earth and were completely unware that there were humans living on other continents.  Indeed they didn't even know that there were other continents for other people to live on.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't know what to tell you Rik. I can only relate to my own experience wherein I came to God at a time when I wasn't looking for direction at all. It was truly my own free will under no duress from any aspect of my life. This is my own experience though. For someone who feels abandoned by God, I can only offer the story of a man named Job. Sometimes we have to go through a spiritual desert to come to understand our place with God on the other side. That's what I get from the story of Job. I thought you were having a really tough time and something happened to make you believe in God?

Oh this is ripe.  Just like the book I recently read called "What Christians Believe" in which the author explains that you should believe in God because the Bible says so.  One hundred and fifty nine pages of pure bullshit.

Quoted: Quoted: myth about the Great Turtle, too. Gamera?

Maturin.. *nods lots*

Quoted: What made you not believe in a higher power?

I find the idea illogical, though I don't rule out the idea that there is a "higher power."  I just don't think that if there is one, He, She, or It would have all that much interest in Us.  I offended Garandman with this quotation once, but I'm willing to do it again:

The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history. - Robert A. Heinlein The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

I am more concerned with what specific thing or things makes you firmly comvinced that there is no afterlife,etc?

What makes you think I'm "firmly comviced[sic] that there is no afterlife"? I DON'T KNOW, and neither do you, but I'm comfortable with my ignorance.  Aren't you?

Were you raised in a non-religious home/environment?

We went to church every Sunday until I was about, oh, six I guess.  It didn't take.

Were you raised in a moderately religious home/environment and had a dose of reality that made you doubt anything that couldn't be proved by science?

No, there was no great epiphany.  I looked at science, and I looked at religion (a lot of them) and science made more sense.  It didn't have all the answers, but it sure asked some interesting questions that it actually strives to answer.

And Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker et al. are not good advertising.

Do you have some inkling of faith buried deep inside you that you simply feel is enough and that you shouldn't have to worship and play all the other churchy religion games? other?

If I'm wrong I guess I'll burn in Hell forever, or simply cease to exist (as some sects believe), or I'll keep getting recycled until my Karma runs over my Dogma, or whatever.

The fact is, I don't know what happens after death, and no one else really does either.  That's why it's called "faith."

Soon enough I'll find out.  I'm OK with that.

1. I don't need rreligion to be a moral and honest person. I don't need that falsed up guilt to make me better, I do that on my own.

2. Churches ran by businessmen and liars. All they want is the money and will squeeze every bit out of you.

3. Majority of those who go like to fuck people 6 days of the week, but on Sunday they are forgiven or purified, which is fucking redicolous and should not be tolerated, but is.

4. I can think on my own and come up with my own conclusions, like what some of the chuches did for that  jackass, Dubya. Damn sheep.

5. Science and methodical studying can answer almost all of life's mysteries and questions.

6. 5.5-6 billion of us. We are like ants. Do you care what ONLY one ant does? No. God is the same way. Why should he care about 6 billion of us ants? Unless one bites you on your toe, you woun't be able to or care what each one does.

7. What makes this god different than all the others worshipped? It doesn't.

Quoted: What made you not believe in a higher power? I am more concerned with what specific thing or things makes you firmly comvinced that there is no afterlife,etc?

Religious people convinced me that religion is WRONG.

All religions demand that you take the word/guidance/advice of a fellow human, who supposedly knows the answers about a creator, the meaning of our existence and the presence of an afterlife.

I always knew, even with a religious upbringing, that any God who would expect me to believe in him, would not choose men, books or TV shows as his vehicle to convince me. I do not trust my fellow man, on matters of heaven and a benevolent god.

Quoted: Quoted: Not trying to be a jerk, but why the double standard? Rodent and the other non-believers have sure taken their liberties in the 'other' thread. i'm pretty sure somewhere in "the great book" it says that 2 wrongs do not make a right.   i would have thought since the sarge has studied it and follows it, he would have known that.  must've been in that one passage he missed...

Actually, I don't ever recall reading that two wrongs doesn't make a right in the Bible.

If you have a verse I would be interested in reading it.

As far as my comments on this thread my initial one was to help and the others were answers to peoples questions.


Sgatr15

I believe there are higher powers, more advanced life, etc, but that does not make them gods.
Hell, they could have created the earth and it still does not mean they are gods.  And if they wanted me to worship them, they could probably FORCE me to, but I wouldn't anyways....

"Raised" catholic... but I use the term "raised" loosely. I wasn't made to say my prayers and we didn't say grace at every meal. I think CCD was more of an extra hour of mommy time more than anything else.

We went to church on Sundays for a period of time... I suspect more as a man-hunting trip for my mother than for us, as a family, to do whatever is supposed to be accomplished by going.

The day I pretty much called it quits was when we were covering Adam and Eve... and then things seemed to jump right into the period when Jesus lived.

"I thought there were dinosaurs before men." "When did God make the dinosaurs?" I asked.
"There were no dinosaurs." The CDD teacher replied.

So which "story" was I supposed to believe? The one about the giant lizards whose bones you can see in museums... or the guy who died and came back to life... who also happened to be the son of the "guy" who created everything in existence.

Well, considering I was a normal kid... I stuck with T-rex and all his buddies.

Having said that, there is the inkling of faith buried deep down. I don't let it control me. My faith doesn't dictate any of the decisions I make in life. I think it's because I just can't imagine that all of the knowledge and experience and everythign that makes us what we are just stops when we die... Letting myself believe that when we die we just stop like an unplugged appliance would really put a kink in the whole living thing... because what the hell would be the point.

I'm not sure if I believe in "heaven" or "reincarnation" or what... I kind of like the idea that's an integral part of the storyline of The Necroscope books, where the mind/consciousness just continues on doing whatever it is that it was best at in life.

Anywho, that's my take on it... more or less.

Is something strange about people not beleiveing in something that can not be seen or heard and have no other proof that it exists?

Quoted: Is something strange about people not beleiveing in something that can not be seen or heard and have no other proof that it exists?

in a word, yes.......... would you believe in a invisible rabbit if someone wrote a book that it is real, and told you don't question it, just accept it?

Quoted: Quoted: Is something strange about people not beleiveing in something that can not be seen or heard and have no other proof that it exists? in a word, yes.......... would you believe in a invisible rabbit if someone wrote a book that it is real, and told you don't question it, just accept it?

Shit...athiest don't even believe in the REAL rabbits!

Sgat1r5

Quoted: What made you not believe in a higher power? I am more concerned with what specific thing or things makes you firmly comvinced that there is no afterlife,etc? Were you raised in a non-religious home/environment? Were you raised in a moderately religious home/environment and had a dose of reality that made you doubt anything that couldn't be proved by science? Do you have some inkling of faith buried deep inside you that you simply feel is enough and that you shouldn't have to worship and play all the other churchy religion games? other?

1. My ex-gf of 2 years was a devout Christian...she was drugged and raped, which completely screwed up her life.  Where was the "all-powerful, loving God" during this time? Didn't "He" care about her enough to not let that happen?

2. Raised in a very religious household. I was "grounded" if I didn't go to church on Sunday, and it was force fed to me by my parents. Interestingly enough, after my parents got divorced, my dad renounced religion, and is now agnostic.

3. See #1.

4. I feel that there may be a God out there, and I'm deeply conflicted about it. I don't believe in evolution as the majority of scientists present it, but at the same time I just can't feel like the Bible is 100% truth.

Needless to say, I'm very confused and conflicted...

Quoted: Needless to say, I'm very confused and conflicted...

Sounds more like you are ready to learn, which is good.


Sgatr15

Quoted: What made you not believe in a higher power? I am more concerned with what specific thing or things makes you firmly comvinced that there is no afterlife,etc? Were you raised in a non-religious home/environment? Were you raised in a moderately religious home/environment and had a dose of reality that made you doubt anything that couldn't be proved by science? Do you have some inkling of faith buried deep inside you that you simply feel is enough and that you shouldn't have to worship and play all the other churchy religion games? other?

1. I dont remember a specific point when I gave up believing, I was probably 13 or so.

2. My folks were non denominational, but we went to church every sunday until I was around 10 or so.

3. I suppose.

4. I honestly wish I believed. I used to pray every night even though I had doubts. It slowly dwindled.

Quoted: Shit...athiest don't even believe in the REAL rabbits!

now what kind of idiotic statement is that? BTW, if you are going to call people atheist........at least spell the word correctly

Quoted: Quoted: Needless to say, I'm very confused and conflicted... Sounds more like you are ready to learn, which is good. Sgatr15

Learning and indoctrination are two completely seperate things.

Quoted: Quoted: Shit...athiest don't even believe in the REAL rabbits! now what kind of idiotic statement is that? BTW, if you are going to call people atheist........at least get the spelling right.

Because I find it funny that people ask to see the works of God and yet do not see what is all around them.

If there is no God then what you and I do means absolutely nothing.  I can kill you and it means nothing.  I can spend my days drunk or my days working and it would all mean the same thing.

In short, this would all be a joke and a big waste of time.

I don't know about you, but my life is worth ALOT more than that.

SGat1r5

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Needless to say, I'm very confused and conflicted... Sounds more like you are ready to learn, which is good. Sgatr15 Learning and indoctrination are two completely seperate things.

Which is why I said it to him and not to you.

Sgat1r5

[god] LET THE CIRCULAR REASONING BEGIN!! [/god]

Seen much too much "stuff" to prove otherwise. (How can any god let this happen kind of stuff) Nonetheless, I have a slighty open mind about the possibility.

I was raised near the Navajo people and their land, and have a healty dose of Spirituality.

Quoted: Because I find it funny that people ask to see the works of God and yet do not see what is all around them.

which "god"? ra, odin, mars

If there is no God then what you and I do means absolutely nothing.  I can kill you and it means nothing.  I can spend my days drunk or my days working and it would all mean the same thing.

it's society that conducts your behavior, and the way you do things........early man didn't believe in the nonesense you believe that a "god" somehow makes you what you are, it was their group/ clan/family group that basically made them do things to survive......ie if they don't hunt, they don't eat, they die.......you don't work, you don't get paid, you don't buy food to feed you and your family, you lose your house, your car etc..........society and group living was around long before anybody ever came up with a fairy tale "god" on how they should act, or do things.....you don't kill people because you know that society will punish you......  there is more to said about how we act because of society, then to any fairy tale "god"

In short, this would all be a joke and a big waste of time.

the only joke here is folks that believe in some nonesense "god"

I don't know about you, but my life is worth ALOT more than that.

only because you are brainwashed into believe that a "god" somehow in the background "guiding things"..........when in reality it's you that it is charge of your destiny and direction you are going........if you become a bum on the streets, it's you that put yourself there........if you are sucessful, it's you that made that happen.

Quoted: Seen much too much "stuff" to prove otherwise. (How can any god let this happen kind of stuff) Nonetheless, I have a slighty open mind about the possibility. I was raised near the Navajo people and their land, and have a healty dose of Spirituality.

You are a cop right?

Then you should know that what you are seeing is the action of man, not of God.


Sgat1r5

Quoted: Not trying to be a jerk, but why the double standard? Rodent and the other non-believers have sure taken their liberties in the 'other' thread.

And that thread is how many pages down by now? Obviously this thread has turned into an attempt to proseletyze rather than let the non-believers have their say.

I do not know if there is a god or not, I really don't think anyone can know.  All you can do is "believe" what others tell you.  As for religous insitutions, just like people they need to be judged by their actions, not the poetic words they commit to paper.


The only I am reasonably sure of is that so far people have gotten it all wrong.

Over the years I have found there to be a big difference between religion and belief....

Quoted: What made you not believe in a higher power? I am more concerned with what specific thing or things makes you firmly comvinced that there is no afterlife,etc? Were you raised in a non-religious home/environment? Were you raised in a moderately religious home/environment and had a dose of reality that made you doubt anything that couldn't be proved by science? Do you have some inkling of faith buried deep inside you that you simply feel is enough and that you shouldn't have to worship and play all the other churchy religion games? other?

The hypocrisy and idiocy of organized religions.

No one ever said I didnt think there was something beyond this life.

My parents were more of...."you can do your own thing, experience your own things but if you fuck up, we'll laugh and point and then hug you and still be proud and love you."

I'm agnostic.


I dont feel, even if I was religious, that people need to "pray to a God" for that God to accept them and their sins, nor should anyone be forced to go to the "house of that god" on a regular basis.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Shit...athiest don't even believe in the REAL rabbits! now what kind of idiotic statement is that? BTW, if you are going to call people atheist........at least get the spelling right. Because I find it funny that people ask to see the works of God and yet do not see what is all around them. If there is no God then what you and I do means absolutely nothing.  I can kill you and it means nothing.  I can spend my days drunk or my days working and it would all mean the same thing. In short, this would all be a joke and a big waste of time. I don't know about you, but my life is worth ALOT more than that. SGat1r5

God is all arond us? So is in cancer, terrorists, aids, pedophiles? So whenever something good happens, its the glory of god, but when somethign bad happens, its the work of the devil? I dont buy it.