LOL!

People who say stuff like this always make me laugh. I can never, will never understand the "believe what I want" method of religion. Like you're shopping for a car with the right amenities, instead of a search for truth. If that's the case, why go to church at all? Just as a social club? If you don't believe in it, why are you wasting your time on it?

Just doesn't make sense.

Kids are gonna be gay whether you tell them it's wrong or not imo.

Also eternal damnation for being gay, really lol? What loving God would do that to his own children. Seriously

The God of the Bible. Sexual immorality of any kind is a sin.

Good solid post. I would very much like to subscribe to your weekly newsletter.

OP, let me state the bottom line before going into detail: you are about to break off a five-year relationship with someone you acknowledge you love, over one disagreement about religion and sexuality.

Don't do it, OP. I get that your religion is very important to you, and I respect you for sticking by your beliefs, but this is one disagreement. Significant? Maybe. Enough to ruin your plans for the future? No.

This is a woman who is faithful to you, who stands by you, who supports you. She disagrees with you on the issue of homosexuality, and she has every right to. You have every right to disagree with her. It's not my place to judge you or your beliefs, nor do I want to, but I think you should let this disagreement go and stay with her. Before you get mad or upset at me, let me tell you why I feel that way.

There's no such thing as the perfect relationship. You two will never fully agree on everything, things won't always be easy, the choice that matters is whether you'll stick by each other when times get rough. This is one single disagreement that you two have. It's okay to have disagreements. There's more that goes into the equation of whether someone would be a good parent than "does she think it's okay to be gay?" Just because she thinks that homosexuality is not a sin doesn't mean she's not a good candidate for motherhood. Some disagreements aren't as bad as they sound.

This is one disagreement, OP. This is one single, solitary opinion. There are so many things that this girl could get right. Do you really want to throw away all the good she does when she feels differently than you do on a single issue?

I've been where you are. I had disagreements with my ex on a lot of stuff, and I can tell you right now that it was my fault, because I refused to accept that she felt differently. She loved me, I loved her. When I made things horrible for her and endlessly broke her heart, she left. I still kick my own ass over it, every day. Don't do what I did, OP. She makes you happy and you know she's worth your love. Don't break things off over this, because you're going to regret it every day. It's not worth the pain to break things off with her when you could instead be happy with her.

Some hills just aren't worth dying on, OP. If you break things off with a girl because she disagrees with you on something, you'll never have a lasting relationship. It's okay to be in an imperfect relationship, because there's no such thing as perfect.

My brother is an atheist and his wife is a Christian. They get along well and their kids are so amazingly special. Just because you guys don't agree about your religion doesn't mean it's doomed.

Trust the Lord and have faith. It'll all work out, OP. I wish I would've remembered it, myself. You have a diamond, don't throw it away because it has one imperfection.

God bless.
Palm

Four things important to relationships in terms of beliefs and actions:

Money
Sex
Religion
Having children

Have differences on those and you’re in trouble.

So gay is bad but sex out of marriage for five years is ok because it makes YOUR pee pee feel good?  Like you said, religion is not a buffet.  Don’t let religion ruin your life.

Edited ~ medicmandan

This would be non-negotiable for me.  Better you figure that out now, and good on you for giving this the thought it deserves.  Many people don’t consider this until the kids have arrived and the options are all bad.

Looks to me like you might possibly be compounding the issue. My own brother is an atheist and his Christian wife loves the fuck out of him.

There is no scientific evidence for a genetic gene for homosexuality and only scant evidence for a genetic predisposition.

Even still, there is strong evidence for a hereditary predisposition to alcoholism, promiscuity, and some other things that can lead to grave sinning.

Bottom line: We all have our crosses to bear, and if this is the cross given to someone with a predisposition to homosexuality that just means this is both their cross and their vehicle through which they can reach salvation.

Again, you don't get to dictate what's "fair" from God. Create a universe and everything in it, and then your "opinion" will be taken more seriously.

This is not a slight to you, but just an example of the kind of cafeteria Christianity that people are drawn to.

You're spot on about the "sex out of marriage" and the "buffet" thing, but to say don't let religion ruin your life needs some qualification.

If you mean that as in "Don't join Helter Skelter", I agree. If you mean that as in, "It's not that important overall", then I don't agree.

This could very well be the case, but how devout is she?

Does she demand they arrange their plans around weekly service, or is she willing to skip a Sunday to go to the beach with him?

Does she like her house to be filled with prayer, or is her house very "secular". Do she and the kids say Grace, and does she spend time teaching them about Christ while he sits by respectfully, or does she hold off on such things to "keep the peace"?

Just saying, "I'm a Christian" may not be a big obstacle for some atheists to ignore. Living like one is a different story.

This is a problem that I see often.  If one wants their relationship to last then one must seek out and want a significant other that shares as close to possible the same beliefs.

The reality is, a lot don't and cannot figure out why relationships often don't work.  Or why one or the other, or both in the relationship are miserable.

I am very adamant that one should seek out someone of the same faith.  A Baptist should seek another Baptist, a Catholic another Catholic, a Mormon another Mormon, Etc.  But not just someone who shares the name, but the same ideology.  A luke warm Catholic and a hard core Catholic are very likely to have issues, as much as a liberal Baptist and a KJV only Baptist.  Can it be made to work, sure, but it can also be miserable.  If t does "work" then one or both have compromised their beliefs, there is no getting away from that.

When one gets in a relationship and or marries someone of a different faith then truthfully BOTH have just admitted that neither of them are true believers and are willing to compromise their beliefs, because as far as I know most religious faiths teach that you need to marry within your faith.  And frankly as a practical matter, that just makes sense.  Marriage in this fallen world is hard enough, why purposefully add an additional stumbling block?

If a Mormon marries a Baptist, then BOTH have compromised and/or were not that faithful to their religion anyways.

Marrying someone who shares very few to none of the religious tenants as oneself is simply asking for trouble, and when it comes to teaching their future children, One or both of you will lose them.  If one cannot agree on how to raise children then the relationship will fail.  What part of your faith toward teaching your future children are you willing to "compromise"  for your relationship, what part is your future spouse?  How will that effect and or confuse the children?

Just one ex Mormon, Born again KJV only Baptists opinion.

Quoted for truth.

Disagreements about almost anything are easy in marriage until there are children.  There can still be disagreements with children, but you have to agree in advance the values with which the parents will raise those kids.

Love and physical desire are strong and make it difficult for us sometimes to live in obedience to God and His Word. The Apostle Paul inspired by God wrote this for a reason, to help us avoid pain and misery: "Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers ".
It doesn't work. A difference of beliefs on homosexuality is only one of many differences you will have. Sorry for your predicament my brother. In the end, if you are faithful to God's Word, you will be rewarded.

Everyone must choose and decide if they will be part of the Kingdom of God or kingdom of the devil.

Sad, but I would say, find someone with whom you will be equally yoked. AKA same faith.

Just playing devil's advocate here. IF you have children and raise them that homosexuality is a sin, but later in life they disagree or they themselves  are gay or lesbian, will you disown them?

Fundamental values, religion and politics....  I do get it.  If she agrees now, what about tomorrow? People change.  Your wife and kids will not always be your carbon copy.  

That doesn't mean you don't start out on the right foot, just because things might go to crap later.

He has spent 5 years with her. I would say he has already well established his foot.  

Obviously not, hence this thread.

The real question is, why would you spend 5 years from someone that you don't really know well enough to know their views on this already?   Because, and the truth is, he likely knew her views already and he is now just getting cold feet because marriage and children are coming into the picture.  He is looking for relationship advice and validation on a gun board.  Nuff said.

Truth

God doesn’t give us fully capable children. They are animals we try to train to be decent human beings.

It is a team effort of parents, extended family and the world, where choices are made which build a proper CONSCIENCE (con-science) in a child.  How can you do that? I submit for fundamental truths, teaching Natural Law facts, you cannot.

Analogies are abundant... but at the core is the Natural Law. It is either Gods law of Love (even chastisement in love) or satans shifting sand which only destroys.

Christianity, in my lowly opinion, being Catholic, is the hardest as it requires the most of me, to tear off, to “pluck out” my eye if offends God. (Literally the wandering eye that chases the apple... even if it means physical blindness, is preferable to eternal loss of ones soul)

It is said, “The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.”   Indeed.  

The root of the confusion is evil... and, concupicense.

Let us face it... call it out... name it....
https://www.catholicamericanthinker.com/What-is-Evil.html

I have wondered where we would be, had Adam been the father, protector of his family...?  What if Adam had been helping rock the cradle?

She will be much better off if you break up with her.

I think they both will, but OP has nothing to be ashamed of or for which he should feel bad about.

Practicing and encouraging homosexuality is a sin.

They have been living in sin also, just different sin that he's OK with. The double standard is one she needs to run away from.

You are right in that they are both living in sin. You are also right in that this is a double standard that OP doesn't seem to have a problem with.

However, why do you keep placing the blame solely on him and making it seem as though she is an innocent party?

I'm not sure why you posted this, but if it is to show that divorce is allowed, the RCC does allow for an annulment in extreme cases.

Insufficient use of reason (Canon 1095, 10)
You or your spouse did not know what was happening during the marriage
ceremony because of insanity, mental illness, or a lack of consciousness.

Grave lack of discretionary judgment concerning essential matrimonial rights and duties (Canon 1095, 20)
You or your spouse was affected by some serious circumstances or factors that made you unable to judge or evaluate either the decision to marry or the ability to create a true marital relationship.

Psychic-natured incapacity to assume marital obligations (Canon 1095, 30)
You or your spouse, at the time of consent, was unable to fulfill the obligations of marriage because of a serious psychological disorder or other condition.

Ignorance about the nature of marriage (Canon 1096, sec. 1)
You or your spouse did not know that marriage is a permanent relationship between a man and a woman ordered toward the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation.

Error of person (Canon 1097, sec. 1) Reasons for Marriage Annulment
You or your spouse intended to marry a specific individual who was not the
individual with whom marriage was celebrated. (For example, mail order brides; otherwise, this rarely occurs in the United States.)

Error about a quality of a person (Canon 1097, sec. 2)
You or your spouse intended to marry someone who either possessed or did not possess a certain quality, e.g., social status, marital status, education, religious conviction, freedom from disease, or arrest record. That quality must have been directly and principally intended.

Fraud (Canon 1098) Reasons for Marriage Annulment
You or your spouse was intentionally deceived about the presence or absence of a quality in the other. The reason for this deception was to obtain consent to marriage.

Total willful exclusion of marriage (Canon 1101, sec. 2)
You or your spouse did not intend to contract marriage as the law of the Catholic Church understands marriage. Rather, the ceremony was observed solely as a means of obtaining something other than marriage itself, e.g., to obtain legal status in the country or to legitimize a child.

Willful exclusion of children (Canon 1101, sec. 2)
You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, to deny the other's right to sexual acts open to procreation.

Willful exclusion of marital fidelity (Canon 1101, 12)
You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, not to remain faithful.

Willful exclusion of marital permanence (Canon 1101, sec. 2)
You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, not to create a permanent relationship, retaining an option to divorce.

Future condition (Canon 1102, sec. 2)
You or your spouse attached a future condition to your decision to marry, e.g., you will complete your education, your income will be at a certain level, you will remain in this area.

Past condition (Canon 1102, sec. 2)R
You or your spouse attached a past condition so your decision to marry and that condition did not exist; e.g., I will marry you provided that you have never been married before, I will marry you provided that you have graduated from college.

Present condition (Canon 1102, sec. 2)
You or your spouse attached a present condition to your decision to marry and that condition did not exist, e.g., I will marry you provided you don't have any debt.

Force (Canon 1103)
You or your spouse married because of an external physical or moral force that you could not resist.

Fear (1103)
You or your spouse chose to marry because of fear that was grave and inescapable and was caused by an outside source.

Error regarding marital unity that determined the will (1099)
You or your spouse married believing that marriage was not necessarily an
exclusive relationship.

Error regarding marital indissolubility that determined the will (Canon 1099)
You or your spouse married believing that civil law had the power to dissolve
marriage and that remarriage was acceptable after civil divorce.

Error regarding marital sacramental dignity that determined the will (Canon 1099)
You and your spouse married believing that marriage is not a religious or sacred relationship but merely a civil contract or arrangement.

Lack of new consent during convalidation (Canons 1157,1160)
After your civil marriage, you and your spouse participated in a Catholic ceremony and you or your spouse believed that (1) you were already married, (2) the Catholic ceremony was merely a blessing, and (3) the consent given during. the Catholic ceremony had no real effect

Probably because he is the one claiming to be a devout Christian and planning to exit the 5 year relationship over her views on homosexuality.  She is not even a Christian according to his post.

I'm not sure if all of those reasons are supported by scripture, but the verse I posted is relevant in these times when divorce is common, and often assumed. Jesus teaches us that married life isn't suited to everyone, and given the likely perils of marriage, it is best to live life "like a eunuch" if possible. It's not surprising that MGTOW has gained prominence lately as a backlash to the way that marriage, men, and traditional morals are treated in American society.

She isn't a Christian or even religious according to the OP so Christian rules don't apply to her (same way Islamic or Buddhist one's wouldn't to you).

So the OP is committing very similar sins hopefully on a regular basis that he's willing to throw his relationship over for.

ETA: vallygunner I just assumed you were Christian, apologies if you aren't.

Dating is the relationship "test drive".
It's supposed to unearth differences like this, so you can eject before you get tied down with community assets and children.

Eject now, today, don't look back.
OR
Know this is a fight you WILL NEVER WIN, and are a fool for engaging in, and will still likely lead to resentment and losing half your shit and paying for kids you only see occasionally.

Why can’t it be a buffet? The church has a long history of picking and choosing what they want and don’t want. I have a feeling modern Christianity would be unrecognizable to the original.

I am an atheist so 99% of posters in this thread will disregard my post as trying to stir trouble which I am not. I am just pointing out that what you found with her is that she is a good human being and those are increasingly hard to find.

Ultimately you alone will decide if this one issue is enough to eject. I would put it like this though. I would tell her to eject. You sound like a good person who is letting religion dominate and your life and decisions, not allowing you the ability to decide for yourself what is right and wrong. The type of people that allow religion to make all their decisions will constantly find flaws with those that don’t. That may grow into a wedge that may drive you apart, then she may feel trapped by someone who refuses to talk about divorce because it’s a sin. See how that pick and choose thing works?

I wish you both the best however you two may end up.

While I agree with most of what you wrote I disagree that there is only one answer.  Most of the people who are turned off by religion do so because of the intolerance of some Christian denominations and you are all that in spades.  In previous centuries Christians killed one another over minor differences in interpretation of the Bible.  It sounds like your GF may be better off with somebody else...

Funny how relativism must make absolute statements to justify itself.

Sticking to one's beliefs is only intolerant when those beliefs are Christian.

Hmmm...

MGTOW is not an answer, but rather an excuse to avoid the difficulties of marriage. Most advocates of it I have known are stunted individuals who have not matured or have been unable to have productive or even any real experiences with the opposite sex.

Married life is indeed not suited for everyone, but the verses speak of those who are thinking about devoting their lives to Christ, i.e. priests, bishops, etc.

For the rest of us, we are to marry, bear children, and live Christian lives. Scripture is filled with verses that attest to this.

Ah, now I see your point. Yes, this is a valid argument.

This is an interesting observation. Do you have any particular examples that you have run across?

No kidding.

As a general rule people have a range of core values - these tend to be fundamental beliefs - for example understanding right from wrong, good from bad and the degree of these beliefs is different for different people.  However, if there is a mismatch in those beliefs that mismatch is unlikely to change with time and indeed may only get worse.  

You have to be honest with each other because longer term it will matter a great deal.  If you explain your view to her and she can't respect your views then you probably should part ways but remain friends.  Obviously the converse is true e.g. if you can't respect her views because they're at odds with your core beliefs then once again you should part ways and remain friends.  

Core beliefs are not something one can agree to disagree on.  

Why are you with a non-believer? The Bible specifically warns against being unequally yoked. It only invites trouble to your own spiritual life. You know what you need to do...you just don't want to do it. And that is understandable.

Her views will absolutely not be compatible with yours as time goes on. If you think having a girlfriend is hard, marriage is harder -- and kids, harder still. If you two end up divorcing, she can take the kids and clean you out financially.

All that drama can be avoided...you just need to eject. It will hurt...but it will hurt even more if you wait longer.

Are you a Christian?

If so, why would you counsel a brother in Christ to disobey the Bible (don't be unequally yoked)? Just wondering how worldly wisdom could possibly EVER be better than God's design for a successful marriage.

As an atheist, it's not surprising to see this viewpoint. You don't understand how God is supposed to influence the life of the Christian. It is a relationship...not a "religion". As for the bolded part, Christians do not have the choice to decide what is "right" and "wrong". Moral law is objective, not subjective. God is our creator, has already decided what is morally acceptable and what isn't, and we are beholden to what He has spoken. While it is difficult to obey at all times, we are expected to do so as much as possible, pray for strength when we are slipping and have forgiveness available for when we fail.

Also, your comment about religious people constantly finding flaws with non-religious is particularly ironic considering you just spent most of this post basically doing that very thing to the OP. I'd say that's just human nature -- to be able to easily identify differences in core beliefs and make a judgment call on if that difference is a pro or a con. That's not a negative thing. That's called common sense, self-preservation, risk assessment, etc. We do it all the time, picking friends, wives, business partners, etc -- its not a "religious people vs. atheist people" trait.

Well said.