Posted: 11/9/2013 5:59:32 PM EDT
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“For the Orthodox tradition, then, Adam's original sin affects the human race in its entirety, and it has consequences both on the physical and the moral level: it, results not only in sickness and physical death, but in moral weakness and paralysis. But does it also imply an inherited guilt? Here Orthodoxy is more guarded. Original sin is not to be interpreted in juridical or quasi-biological terms, as if it were some physical 'taint' of guilt, transmitted through sexual intercourse. This picture, which normally passes for the Augustinian view, is unacceptable to Orthodoxy. The doctrine of original sin means rather that we are born into an environment where it is easy to do evil and hard to do good; easy to hurt others, and hard to heal their wounds; easy to arouse men's suspicions, and hard to win their trust. It means that we are each of us conditioned by the solidarity of the human race in its accumulated wrong-doing and wrong-thinking, and hence wrong-being. And to this accumulation of wrong we have ourselves added by our own deliberate acts of sin. The gulf grows wider and wider. It is here, in the solidarity of the human race, that we find an explanation for the apparent unjustness of the doctrine of original sin. Why, we ask, should the entire human race suffer because of Adam's fall? Why should all be punished because of one man's sin? The answer is that human beings, made in the image of the Trinitarian God, are interdependent and coinherent. No man is an island. We are 'members one of another'(Eph. 4:25), and so any action, performed by any member of the human race, inevitably affects all the other members. Even though we are not, in the strict sense, guilty of the sins of others, yet we are somehow always involved.”
? Kallistos Ware, The Orthodox Way |
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Quoted:
The original sin was breaking dietary laws (eating what they were told not to eat). Dietary Laws? Wow! And that my friend is religion talking. Religion has nothing to do with being a Christian. It is all about relationship. Belief in the finished work of the Cross. It's about how much God loves US. Not what we eat. The original sin was not in Adam and Eve eating of any fruit but the fact that, whatever they did, they gained the knowledge of "Evil" which before that they had NO knowledge of evil but only GOOD! They were forbidden from eating from the "tree of knowledge of good AND evil" not an apple tree. Once they partook their eyes were indeed opened and now they had the knowledge of evil. This is the original sin. A condition was introduced that was not intended. Man was never supposed to know evil and only trust in God to provide for them. Christs death and resurrection corrected all this. It's all there....just read it. ;) |
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Quoted:
Dietary Laws? Wow! And that my friend is religion talking. Religion has nothing to do with being a Christian. It is all about relationship. Belief in the finished work of the Cross. It's about how much God loves US. Not what we eat. The original sin was not in Adam and Eve eating of any fruit but the fact that, whatever they did, they gained the knowledge of "Evil" which before that they had NO knowledge of evil but only GOOD! They were forbidden from eating from the "tree of knowledge of good AND evil" not an apple tree. Once they partook their eyes were indeed opened and now they had the knowledge of evil. This is the original sin. A condition was introduced that was not intended. Man was never supposed to know evil and only trust in God to provide for them. Christs death and resurrection corrected all this. It's all there....just read it. ;) Quoted:
Quoted:
The original sin was breaking dietary laws (eating what they were told not to eat). Dietary Laws? Wow! And that my friend is religion talking. Religion has nothing to do with being a Christian. It is all about relationship. Belief in the finished work of the Cross. It's about how much God loves US. Not what we eat. The original sin was not in Adam and Eve eating of any fruit but the fact that, whatever they did, they gained the knowledge of "Evil" which before that they had NO knowledge of evil but only GOOD! They were forbidden from eating from the "tree of knowledge of good AND evil" not an apple tree. Once they partook their eyes were indeed opened and now they had the knowledge of evil. This is the original sin. A condition was introduced that was not intended. Man was never supposed to know evil and only trust in God to provide for them. Christs death and resurrection corrected all this. It's all there....just read it. ;) I'm not a religious person. I believe the Bible literally, with the exception of mistranslations of men. Our father gave them loving instructions on what to eat and what not to eat, and they disobeyed these instructions. I'm not saying that not following these instructions will keep someone out of the coming Kingdom, but it might just get you there a little sooner. Who knows what's better for us to eat or not to eat than the One that created everything? The Messiah said to follow Him. Even a child knows that this means to do as He does, just as His disciples did even after He shed His precious blood. |
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What strikes me is this: Adam and Eve both commit rebellion by breaking the one significant ordinance they have been given. We also read that the eating of the fruit of that tree would change them. Notice that their very nature is changed, and they don't even say they are sorry or seek reconciliation, they immediately blame one another and God for the situation. With their changed nature (would they have been like that before eating?), they can no longer relate to God, and their offspring down to this day have the same problem. The new testament talks about shedding that old nature, the nature of original sin, in favor of a new nature through Christ which brings the reconciliation. |
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So if Satan rebelled against God then he was with God. Or at least nearby. So God was not alone. There were others with Satan, the ones that became demons cast down to earth. They must have been with God as well. So somehow, even while in the presence of God, these ones had both the opportunity and the inclination to reject God and disobey him. How is it possible to see God, to be in his presence, to know him, and to then decide that there is some other better way? Makes me believe that God's world is a little more complicated than we might think. |
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I suspect that's a major part of the fabric of our own world. Lots of people decide they can be Gods themselves... then they create living hells for themselves and the people around them. How many children are in the presence of wise parents but insist they have some better way and rebel, only to find later they were being foolish? Even if you know you're the best track star, you can't just say you are without running enough races to beat everyone else. If you never run the race there will never be an end to doubters of your claim to superiority. I sometimes think that's why God allowed for an earthly and heavenly circumstance where humans and angels can rebel, why they are given space to enact their own dreams and desires to create what they deem as the perfect world. I sometimes think that testing, that "making a name for myself" as God says, is the primary point of our creation. I have faith that eventually every thing humans or satan can think to try to produce their own vision of paradise will show itself a failure and at the end every knee shall bow knowing through the testing in our world the truth that it is God alone who possesses sufficient wisdom and power to govern. |