[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thinking about converting (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/17/2012 11:31:02 AM EDT
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This thought has been on my mind a while and I couldn't think of a better place to seek advice than here.
Right now I am a non practicing Jew. Have been all my life. I have faith but at the same time couldn't and still have a hard time connecting with my religion. I am Jewish by heritage but not by personal choice. For a while now there has been a disconnect that I couldn't put my finger on and I realize it was my religious beliefs. I find it easier to connect with active Christians than I do with active people of my own religion. I ran into a pretty hardcore Jew when I was in basic and quite frankly it weird-ed me out. I have held the belief that living an honorable life, serving in the military, and being a moderately religious person to be the image that I wanted to craft myself into as I grew up as I believe it is what defined being an American. Right now more than ever I feel lost and disconnected with religion and this has become even more so ever sense I joined the Army and have been away from home on my own again without any real outside influences. I believe religion can make one strong in times of suffering and provided moral and spiritual support that is missing with more and more people. I don't blindly follow but I still from personal experiences in my life have faith that there is a god and an afterlife. My biggest fear is if I go through with it my family would reject me. Me and my family have a very good relationship and I feel I would be taking a big dump on it to come out with something like this. My aunt converted when she got married so I know in time they would adjust. |
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Yes I see your point here about converting and your family and that particular situation, but you are talking about taking an allegence to a Messiah in which they do not yet believe in ?
Do you presently feel as if you are being called of God for a peticular purpose or reason? If so, what is going on right now with you that would make you feel this way, if this is what's going on? Thanks, SAE |
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Yes I see your point here about converting and your family and that particular situation, but you are talking about taking an allegence to a Messiah in which they do not yet believe in ? Do you presently feel as if you are being called of God for a peticular purpose or reason? If so, what is going on right now with you that would make you feel this way, if this is what's going on? Thanks, SAE I just feel like something is tugging at me. I can't say if that is a calling or not but every time i think about it I feel as is something is tugging at me. Right now I'm stationed in Germany outside the U.S. I used to do a lot with my family when I was young and in my teenage years. I'm single and this is really my first true job I've had in life. Previously I had been going to college but I got screwed over by the administration and ultimately left to go join the military when I watched my mom die in front of me at the hospital from a septic infection. I mean there is a lot that has gone good in my life and some that has gone bad. I'm grateful right now for what I got but I often feel myself longing for something else but I don't know what it is. |
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Yes I see your point here about converting and your family and that particular situation, but you are talking about taking an allegence to a Messiah in which they do not yet believe in ? Do you presently feel as if you are being called of God for a peticular purpose or reason? If so, what is going on right now with you that would make you feel this way, if this is what's going on? Thanks, SAE I just feel like something is tugging at me. I can't say if that is a calling or not but every time i think about it I feel as is something is tugging at me. Right now I'm stationed in Germany outside the U.S. I used to do a lot with my family when I was young and in my teenage years. I'm single and this is really my first true job I've had in life. Previously I had been going to college but I got screwed over by the administration and ultimately left to go join the military when I watched my mom die in front of me at the hospital from a septic infection. I mean there is a lot that has gone good in my life and some that has gone bad. I'm grateful right now for what I got but I often feel myself longing for something else but I don't know what it is. Are you ready to do this thing now! |
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Yes I see your point here about converting and your family and that particular situation, but you are talking about taking an allegence to a Messiah in which they do not yet believe in ? Do you presently feel as if you are being called of God for a peticular purpose or reason? If so, what is going on right now with you that would make you feel this way, if this is what's going on? Thanks, SAE I just feel like something is tugging at me. I can't say if that is a calling or not but every time i think about it I feel as is something is tugging at me. Right now I'm stationed in Germany outside the U.S. I used to do a lot with my family when I was young and in my teenage years. I'm single and this is really my first true job I've had in life. Previously I had been going to college but I got screwed over by the administration and ultimately left to go join the military when I watched my mom die in front of me at the hospital from a septic infection. I mean there is a lot that has gone good in my life and some that has gone bad. I'm grateful right now for what I got but I often feel myself longing for something else but I don't know what it is. Are you ready to do this thing now! What are you suggesting that this is a sign by god? I don't know if I'm ready I feel as if I would be turning my back on my heritage. I really want to at least talk to my dad about this and see what he thinks and if he is ok with it. He is the one person in life who has been influential in shaping me and has never given me bad advice or steered me in the wrong direction. |
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Call your Father. Roommate is asleep and I don't wish to wake him up. Also it's around dinner time back in the states. I think I'll leave him a message over FB it would be easier as there wouldn't be a time dependency. I will see about calling him on Friday or Saturday I just don't know how I'm going to break it to him though. |
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I left him a message on FB and I'll see if he responds I don't doubt for a minute he won't though. Hopefully he gets around to it soon though. In the meantime I still wish to hear what you all think it would certainly help me get my thoughts in order. Well, the first thing that I might suggest for you to do in the mean time is read some scripture from the Bible. Do you have a Bible, or can you borrow one or check one out? SAE |
| I read some when I was in basic to pass time but I haven't even come close to reading the whole thing. Again it had to do with the feeling of betraying my heritage. I should be able to get one but please do understand as a soldier I have other priorities that I must also take care of. I think I will go by the chapel on the weekend and talk with a priest. In the mean time I am going to sleep thank you SAE for the advice and guidance. |
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DON'T talk to ANY kind of clergy (priest, pastor, preacher, chaplain) ..yet.
I would encourage you to get a Bible and read some of it...I would love to type out some passages that would be super beneficial. The Old Testament is your heritage, so at the very least (if you want) we can stay the the OT. The OT is Christ concealed; The NT is Christ revealed. ~kinda' cheesy, but beneficial in thinking of the Bible. I'd be happy to type out a few things, just IM me or something. Until then, Thanks for serving and everything you guys do! 
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This thought has been on my mind a while and I couldn't think of a better place to seek advice than here. Right now I am a non practicing Jew. Have been all my life. I have faith but at the same time couldn't and still have a hard time connecting with my religion. I am Jewish by heritage but not by personal choice. For a while now there has been a disconnect that I couldn't put my finger on and I realize it was my religious beliefs. I find it easier to connect with active Christians than I do with active people of my own religion. I ran into a pretty hardcore Jew when I was in basic and quite frankly it weird-ed me out. I have held the belief that living an honorable life, serving in the military, and being a moderately religious person to be the image that I wanted to craft myself into as I grew up as I believe it is what defined being an American. Right now more than ever I feel lost and disconnected with religion and this has become even more so ever sense I joined the Army and have been away from home on my own again without any real outside influences. I believe religion can make one strong in times of suffering and provided moral and spiritual support that is missing with more and more people. I don't blindly follow but I still from personal experiences in my life have faith that there is a god and an afterlife. My biggest fear is if I go through with it my family would reject me. Me and my family have a very good relationship and I feel I would be taking a big dump on it to come out with something like this. My aunt converted when she got married so I know in time they would adjust. Oh man, you have got to check out John chapter 3 for sure! (Along with the rest of the book) Conversion as a word struggles to contain the Teaching of Jesus….he tells us that it is something more…it is New Birth…we must be Born Again. Jesus the Rabbi who claimed to be the Messiah talked with a Jew named Nicodemus about being born again. In John we see: God’s promise, a Messiah, a liberator, but not just for a Jewish nation but for Jewish and Gentile hearts. In John we see: Faith in the Son of man who was raised up on the Cross does something that no amount of our own religious sacrificing can do; the merit we could never attain was given as a gift…religion met grace…. The Atonement was paid! New birth is not a system of merits and rules that cause you to earn and keep Jesus…it is the effect of repenting of sin and placing your faith in Jesus Christ who has done everything to earn and keep you. Check out John and Romans. If you need a Bible shoot me your address. |
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Quoted: I don't agree.DON'T talk to ANY kind of clergy (priest, pastor, preacher, chaplain) ..yet. I would encourage you to get a Bible and read some of it...I would love to type out some passages that would be super beneficial. The Old Testament is your heritage, so at the very least (if you want) we can stay the the OT. The OT is Christ concealed; The NT is Christ revealed. ~kinda' cheesy, but beneficial in thinking of the Bible. I'd be happy to type out a few things, just IM me or something. Until then, Thanks for serving and everything you guys do! I think they would be the exact person you would want to talk to. You don't have to tell them you want to convert or anything, just tell them you have questions and do your best to express what it is you are experiencing. I don't know of anybody that is trained as a pastor, whether they are Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, or whatever that is going to attempt to pressure you into doing anything. They might be able to guide you in truly discerning what it is that you are experiencing. Not knowing your access to clergy, I would recommend seeking out a Catholic priest. Granted, I'm Catholic and a little biased  , but I also know what is involved in the formation of these men to become priests. They should be able to answer your questions and make suggestions that will help you in your discernment.God bless and best wishes, Kevin |
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What are you suggesting that this is a sign by god? I don't know if I'm ready I feel as if I would be turning my back on my heritage. I really want to at least talk to my dad about this and see what he thinks and if he is ok with it. He is the one person in life who has been influential in shaping me and has never given me bad advice or steered me in the wrong direction. Maybe the Holy Spirit is working on you, you do need to study Scripture, particularly the Gospel of John. It was written specifically "...that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have eternal life through his name." John 20:31 And if you are a Hebrew you aren't turning your back on your heritage, Christianity is your heritage, you are considering embracing your heritage and maybe for the first time in your life becoming a true Israelite, receiving the Promise that God made with Abraham. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, all the prophets - all those chosen by God to receive the Promise by faith are Christians, yesterday, today and forever. The Covenant of Grace was made with Abraham, and this is the Gospel of Jesus Christ - "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham....Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ...And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and hiers according to the promise." Gal 3:8-9,16, 29 Isaiah 9:6-7 tells you who He is: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this." Mary bore Him, as Luke 1:31-35: "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." David in Psalm 110:1, 4 tells you He is: "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool....The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." Gamaliel tells you who He is in Hebrews 6:17-20: "Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec." "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me....For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me." John 5:39,46 Believe, be born again and then change your username!
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DON'T talk to ANY kind of clergy (priest, pastor, preacher, chaplain) ..yet. I would encourage you to get a Bible and read some of it...I would love to type out some passages that would be super beneficial. The Old Testament is your heritage, so at the very least (if you want) we can stay the the OT. The OT is Christ concealed; The NT is Christ revealed. ~kinda' cheesy, but beneficial in thinking of the Bible. I'd be happy to type out a few things, just IM me or something. Until then, Thanks for serving and everything you guys do! THIS! You said you "feel lost and disconnected with religion" I have known that feeling very well, Connect with the one calling you,Christ spend what time you can reading and let Christ show you he can fill that longing and be a comfort to you when no one else can. After you connect with him then find a chaplain that you trust avoid ones who believe only their brand is right. I pray you find what you feel yourself longing for if you wish you can IM me to talk either way God bless |
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I must say something I happened to me last night that was..... strange. Thinking over all this as I tried to sleep I felt a presence in the room. It felt as if I was being watched not once though did I feel threatened by it only that I was merely being observed.
For the longest time I have been stuck in this kind of haze almost as if I was surrounded by a fog and suddenly it just went away. I felt like a massive weight had been lifted off my shoulders and I was suddenly at peace. It was one of the most peculiar things I have experienced I must say. |
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How awesome to feel the LORD calling you! The best thing to do would be to pray. There is nothing mystical about it and there is no special way to do it. You just simply talk to the One who is calling you and listen. He will answer! I hope you find a connection to your Jewish heritage through Christ and a better connection to your families beliefs. "Yeshua loved Torah and loving what He loved will bring true Peace!"
Thank you for your service!!! |
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DON'T talk to ANY kind of clergy (priest, pastor, preacher, chaplain) ..yet. I would encourage you to get a Bible and read some of it...I would love to type out some passages that would be super beneficial. The Old Testament is your heritage, so at the very least (if you want) we can stay the the OT. The OT is Christ concealed; The NT is Christ revealed. ~kinda' cheesy, but beneficial in thinking of the Bible. I'd be happy to type out a few things, just IM me or something. Until then, Thanks for serving and everything you guys do! THIS! You said you "feel lost and disconnected with religion" I have known that feeling very well, Connect with the one calling you,Christ spend what time you can reading and let Christ show you he can fill that longing and be a comfort to you when no one else can. After you connect with him then find a chaplain that you trust avoid ones who believe only their brand is right. I pray you find what you feel yourself longing for if you wish you can IM me to talk either way God bless This is the exact reason why I said what I did. There are many "denominations" that are unbiblical and some that aren't even Christians. The Bible is God's word and the life He has to offer is found in there. Not in a certain denomination. I would be very very slow in going to man first. I'll be praying for you and you can always IM me. |
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Yes, I can relate to what you are saying. I was raised in a Jewish family with very religious grandparents. I never really felt connected at a deep spiritial level like I see some others. I was at the end of my rope a few years ago, and what I mean by that is I was very sick and in intensive care for 18 days. You would think that an experience like that would have a person grabbing on to religious faith, but I did not.
I never really found my bliss as far as organized religion goes but always had faith in something bigger than me. Three years ago I was invited on a hunting trip out in west Texas and it was a cold December morning. Shot a turkey at first light. Anyway, the other hunters were returning to camp after the morning hunt. I decided to walk a creek bed and do a little exploring. I followed the creek for about a half mile and decided to stop and sit quietly and enjoy the moment. I was sitting there about ten minutes just taking it all in when I had this overwelming feeling peace. What I am saying is that I found my bliss at 50 years old sitting on a creek bank in the middle of nowhere, I was so tuned in it was amazing. My religion is the outdoors because I feel so connected and tuned in. Some people find there bliss in religion, some in art and some, like me find it in the outdoors. Keep in mind that religion was used by our ancesters as a way to keep the peace in densly populated areas. I find it ironic that many religions preach tolerance and goodwill toward others but then seperates into groups who are not always so trusting of outsiders. A lot of misery has been set upon mankind in the name of religion whether it be the crusades or ethnic cleansing in europe or the treatment of christians in just about any Arab country. Those people were tortured and killed because they believed in something different. I am not knocking any religion, i think if we are truly free we can practice and participate in any faith based activity as long as it does not deprive others from doing the same thing. |
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For right now I have decided to explore other forms within my religion first. It would be wrong in my own moral sense to abandon it before I gave it any real chance. I am a Christian and have come in cointact with many fulfilled Jews. Friends and casual contacts. I think what your problem is, is that jewish people have been ingrained to believe that Jesus is not the messiah. They are passing that down from generation to generation. No questions asked. My advice to you is do exactly what you set out to do. Read the old testiment and get a perect foundation of Judaism. When you read the old testiment keep asking the question over and over to yourself where is the jewish messiah that is promissed. Over time and reading you will get to Daniel and it will lay out a timeline for you. But most of all the messiah has to come from the line of david. The temple was destroyed in 70AD and all records were destroyed with it. How can you prove the future messiah is the true messiah and from the line of David? That alone puts you at a dead end. So who can be the messiah from the past? Good luck. Jesus is knocking. ETA: Being a Jew and believing that Jesus is your messiah is not abandoning Judaism. Right now a Jew that rejects the Jewish messiah is abandoning the Jewish faith. Just for the record I am 100% pro Jew. I have friends who believe in Jesus and don't believe in Jesus and they are Jews. My best friend who is Jewish brought me to the Jewish messiah. Good Luck |
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I think what your problem is, is that jewish people have been ingrained to believe that Jesus is not the messiah.
They above statement is very wrong. The test to whether Jesus is the messiah is simple. Was their world peace and the coming of te kingdom of G*d after him? No, therefore he was not the messiah. At the time the Jews wanted to be delivered from the Roman Rule. That could not be produced, but an inner peace and ability to live under hte Romans was possible. Jesus was killed by Roman law. If the Jews had kille him he would have been stoned, as to not spill blood. Crucification is soley Roman. As for a Jew finding fulfillment in Jesus, he was a Rabbi, maybe a prophet, he was not the incarnet of G*d, God does not do that, pagans had incarnates of their gods, Jews do not. We have one G*d , the G*d of creation.To a Jew placing Jesus on an even level as G*d violates the Commandments....as for accepting Jesus as the Messiah, you are then a Christian, not a Jew, you violate one of the main tenents of Judiasm... Show me that there have been no hatred and no wars since Jesus and I will believe he is the messiah. |
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I think what your problem is, is that jewish people have been ingrained to believe that Jesus is not the messiah.
They above statement is very wrong. The test to whether Jesus is the messiah is simple. Was their world peace and the coming of te kingdom of G*d after him? No, therefore he was not the messiah. At the time the Jews wanted to be delivered from the Roman Rule. That could not be produced, but an inner peace and ability to live under hte Romans was possible. Jesus was killed by Roman law. If the Jews had kille him he would have been stoned, as to not spill blood. Crucification is soley Roman. As for a Jew finding fulfillment in Jesus, he was a Rabbi, maybe a prophet, he was not the incarnet of G*d, God does not do that, pagans had incarnates of their gods, Jews do not. We have one G*d , the G*d of creation.To a Jew placing Jesus on an even level as G*d violates the Commandments....as for accepting Jesus as the Messiah, you are then a Christian, not a Jew, you violate one of the main tenents of Judiasm... Show me that there have been no hatred and no wars since Jesus and I will believe he is the messiah. Yes, there will be world peace, but only after the Messiah appears again as God's plan through His only beggoten Son, as Jesus Christ returns in His glory to make the Law, and the Prophets, complete according to God's holy Scriptures. The Jews say that the coming Messiah will only come once. As a student of the Bible, that being, the Old Testament also, which contains Mosaic and Levitical Law, and the Prophets, I have personally not encountered in God's word any place in which such a claim either through the Law or the Prophets where that this claim has been made apparent. What it is that I have found though, is that many practicing Jews claim that they have through their own practicing of current Judism, is a claim that they are currently in a state of righteousness through being in covenant with God, because of their own religious practices that Jews accomplish now as to state that they have a full covenant relationship with God, as to say that many of them have kept this covenent according to the Laws that are perscribed in the first five Books of the Old Testament of God's word, and so on in the Torah also. But, however that this practice of the Law is for many of them, the Jew, it should be apparent to at least some of them that the word of God is among other things is a Book, Scroll, or series of writtings that are in fact not only legally binding, but also will seal a person by their own merits of Godly and righteous conduct toward God as a strict covenant relationship between God and men as perfect and in force, or for the transgressor, to be brought down into a state of Judgement by God and sealed for eternal destruction at God's direction. The Law of God is very precise in the way not only as to the way It was written, but leaves no alternative as a way to relieve sin, which is the breaking of the Law as an absolute, exept atonment by the way of animal sacrifice and other sacrifices of something valuable to the transgressor of God's statutes, precepts, and ordinances, exactly spelled out and prescribed as penilties for sin, or the breaking of the Law in Scripture, or the Torah, as It stood from the beginning for ''They'' are One. But, as most of us are well aware of at this late date in human history, that the atonement for sin, which again is the breaking of God's Law, cannot be accomplished now because there has not been any animal sacrifice as prescribed by the Law to atone for transgressors of the Law for close to two-thousand years now. So, if this is a true statement, and it is, then by the Law of God, and under the terms and conditions set forth by God as the only true, righteous, and legally binding standard for anyone, that being, the Jew, or the foriegn resident who resides with him, then the Law now cannot be fully accomplished by anyone without the atonment of a sin offering, or any other sort of offering prescribed for a full and lasting covenant relationship with God, but only through the Levitical Priesthood as a permanent, as well as a perinnial ordinance, and in the Temple, and on the alter by their hands and instruments only, set apart by God, as holy by Him and with cause because neither stands existant to this very day. And because of this, there are no other such sacrifices or ordinances to be accomplished by them now, and only by and through the Law, which carries the penilty of death for any other to make a vain attempt to initiate,maintain,or alter it. So then, all Jews, and the foriegn residents who have resided amongst them, since Temple Sacrifice has been discontinued and for whatever reason, have not only not been in a covenant relationship in good standing as far as God is concerned, but by this standard which is the Law, all have fallen short of God's perfect plan for them, and all will be judged by Him utimatley, as one who cannot do the Law in Its completeness as commanded. And also for them, and by this same exacting standard by the Law as a transgressor and without counsel, all who have transgressed without atonment, will be held to a total accounting of the same in every single instance in one's own life, as to where the Law has been breached, and then broken, as acts of transgression, and active aggression against God according to the Law, thus being held accountable in any part by God Himself, and by His own righteousness will judge these as hostility and iniquity in any particular instance, and before Him, as the Law requires. SAE* /Christians United for Israel/ |
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There are many related Jewish texts, you need to read more than one. Also there are commentaries in our T*r*h. Also the concept of the Messiah is that there are two, a kingly and a priestly. Israel was run this way, the King and the High Priest.
As for non Jews you only have to follow the Laws of Noah. Any good and righteous person will be let into heaven. |
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Read Isaiah 53 The messiah is explained there. One as a suffeing servant and one as a world ruler.
Now look at these scriptures: Isaiah 9 especialy 9:6 Look at Gen 1:26 God says let us make man in our own image. In the original text it is Iluheim that is plural. Now if you go to the New Testement John 1:1 - 1:5 it will explain that Jesus was with God and is God. So now lets stay in the Old Testament and look at these scriptures: Psalm 110:1 Psalm 22 Daniel 7:13 Exodus 12:46 Numbers 9:12 Psalm 34:20These last 3 scriptures shold be talking about the passover lamb which is Jesus Zach 12:10 Talking about the one they have pierced. Jesus on the cross Now look at Genesis 32:22 Jacob wrestles with GOD Look at what Jacob says in verse32:30 I saw God face to face and my life was spared And he has a problem with his hip. I think God did this to show us it was not a dream. Jesus is the high priest and the King of Kings he fulfills all Jewish law. Look at Daniel 3 Sharach,Meshach and Abednego got thrown into the firey Then the king was said in verse 25 LOOK I see four men walking around in the fire,unbound and unharmed,and the forth looks like the son of the GODS. I say this out of love but your whole beliefe that God will not take the form of a man is total religion. The Jewish teachers will not admit this because if they do they will have to look at the possibility that Jesus could be the messiah. You have a blockade with God and can't get as close as he wants you to. You spell G-D becasue you have that blockade. I don't have to do that. I spell God with a cap for respect but becasue Jesus is my high priest I can go into the holy of holies boldly. You can't you don't have a blood sacrifice to atone for your sins like Jewish law requires. I do. Jesus is my high priest. They don't have to tie bells and rope around his garment or anckle so if he is not right with God they can pull him out of the Holy of Holies. When Jesus was crucified the vale was torn from top to bottom. If you know what the vale was, it was a garment that seperated the Holy of Holies and was very thick. Possibly 1 foot thick. They would need very sharp tools to cut it and being it is very thick it was very heavy and would never be cut from top to bottom it would be cut from bottom to top. It was cut from top to bottom because God tore it. Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. God bless my friend |
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This is My Servant; I will strengthen Him, (this is) My Chosen One; I will delight in Him; He will bring justice to the nations. He will not cry out or shout or make His voice heard in the streets. He will not break a bruised reed, and He will not put out a smoldering wick; He will faithfully bring justice. He will not grow weak or become discouraged until He has established justice on earth.
The islands will wait for His instruction. This is what God the Lord says––––-who created the heavens and (then) strechted them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and life to those who walk on it––––-''I, the LORD, have called you for a righteous purpose, and I (alone) will hold you by your hand. I will keep you, and I will make you a covenant for the people and a light to (all) the nations, in order to open blind eyes, and to bring out prisoners from the dungeon, and those sitting in darkness from the prison house. I AM Yahweh, that is My Name; I will not give (My Own) personal glory to another, or My praise to meaningless idols. The past events have indeed happened. (But) Now I will declare new events; I (will now) announce them to you before (that) they occurr.'' Isaiah 42:1-9 |
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Lord, You are my God; I will exalt You. I will praise Your (the) Name, for You have accomplished wonders, plans formed long ago, with perfect faithfullness. For You have turned the city into a pile of rubble, a fortified city, into a ruin; the fortress of barbarians is no longer a city; and it will never be rebuilt( The destruction of the LORD's Temple in 70 AD Jerusalem).
Therefore, a strong (stronger) people will honor You (now). A city of violent people will fear You. For You have been a stronghold unto the poor, and a stronghold for the humble person in his distress, a refuge from the rain, and a shade from the (burning) heat. When the breath of the violent is like rain against the wall, (just) like heat in a dry land, You subdue the uproar of the barbarians. As the shade of a cloud cools the heat of the day, so He stills the song of the violent. The LORD of Hosts will prepare a feast for all the peoples on this mountain––––- a feast of aged wine and choice meat, finely aged wine. On this mountain( Golgatha or The Place of the Scull) He will destroy the burial shroud, the shroud over all the peoples, the (death) sheet covering all of the nations; He will destroy death forever. The LORD God will wipe away all the tears from every face and remove His people's disgrace from the whole earth, for the LORD has spoken. On that day it will be said,''Look, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He has saved us. This is the LORD and we have waited for Him. Let us rejoyce and be glad in His salvation.'' For the LORD's power will rest on this mountain. Isaiah 25:1-10 |
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Isaiah 9
New International Version (NIV) 9 [a]Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan— 2 The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned. 3 You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as warriors rejoice when dividing the plunder. 4 For as in the day of Midian’s defeat, you have shattered the yoke that burdens them, the bar across their shoulders, the rod of their oppressor. 5 Every warrior’s boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire. 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. This is Jewish scripture stateing a man will be called mighty GOD. Pride is a terrible terrible thing for leaders to have. Many innocent people suffer needlesly. We can see it in our own government. |
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Actually I have learned from classes in T*r*h that the translations of our scripture are often innaccurate. Hebrew is a lazy language and it may seem to say one thing, yet when youput it in context, it changes. Plurals and pronouns are often deleted. It is more of a shorthand. Also many translations have been modified to serve some monarchs needs. The KJV is one of these. When we would have a T*r*h reading in Temple, there was interpetation and in small services discussion.
And the key again is he does not reign in Davids throne. |
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He has to come from the line of David. After king Solomons temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.You have no way of proving the future messiah will meet that requirement. All the Levitical records were destroyed.
Even if we put all this aside. How do you explain the scriptures ( Isaiah 9) That the messiah will be called mighty God. This is a direct scripture saying the messiah will be a man/human being. Then calling him God. I always try to explain the trinity to people like this. Think of 3 in 1 oil. It is a popular oil used and in production for many years. It is 3 different oils blended into one oil. If a chemist wants to he can divide it into 3 oils but it can maintain its properties as 1 oil. But it is also 3 oils.But it is also looked at as 1 oil. That is where the plural comes into play in Genesis. If you want to dig deeper look at Adam in the garden of eden. He spoke directly to God and heard Gods footsteps in the garden. How can God have feet if he is spirit? He took a form of a man back in Genesis, as well with Jacob. But why did he do that? He alsways was! It is man that puts that limitation on God and when they are confronted with it they don't believe. Not because God didn't do it but because they can't comprehend it. The worse thing man can do is try to figure out God and help him. So now you want there to be peace when the messiah comes. Rightfully so. This is a requirement of proof the messiah is true. You want him to sit on the throne of David. Fine. Lets fast forward to future events. We have to go into the new testament now. As I believe there will be a rapture. People who are believers of Christ will be taken away. Now a world leader will come onto the scene. He will make a false peace with the Aab and Jew. The Jew will be able to rebuild their temple. They will be able to sacrafice again. 3.5 years into this, the world leader will sit on the throne of the jewish temple and turn his back on the Jew and start hurting them. He will have fooled many into believeing he is the messiah. This is part of the great tribulation and called Jacobs trouble. I believe and was tought this is going to take place for 2 reasons. The main reason is for the Jew to believe that Jesus is the true messiah. The second is because God is feed up with sin and judgement will be rendered. After the 7 year time period Jesus will return and sit on his throne and fulfill the scriptures of peace and sitting on Davids throne. |
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Quoted:
I think what your problem is, is that jewish people have been ingrained to believe that Jesus is not the messiah.
They above statement is very wrong. The test to whether Jesus is the messiah is simple. Was their world peace and the coming of te kingdom of G*d after him? No, therefore he was not the messiah. At the time the Jews wanted to be delivered from the Roman Rule. That could not be produced, but an inner peace and ability to live under hte Romans was possible. Jesus was killed by Roman law. If the Jews had kille him he would have been stoned, as to not spill blood. Crucification is soley Roman. As for a Jew finding fulfillment in Jesus, he was a Rabbi, maybe a prophet, he was not the incarnet of G*d, God does not do that, pagans had incarnates of their gods, Jews do not. We have one G*d , the G*d of creation.To a Jew placing Jesus on an even level as G*d violates the Commandments....as for accepting Jesus as the Messiah, you are then a Christian, not a Jew, you violate one of the main tenents of Judiasm... Show me that there have been no hatred and no wars since Jesus and I will believe he is the messiah. First of all I thought it was a friendly debate. This quote is where you chimed in. I wasn't even addressing you. I am not trying to convert you. That is not my job. God bless. |
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This is from one of my favorite resources, Judiasm 101 What Will the Mashiach Do?
Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16) The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15). Olam Ha-Ba: The Messianic Age The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah. Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people (Isaiah 2:4). Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9). Others, however, say that these statements are merely an allegory for peace and prosperity. All of the Jewish people will return from their exile among the nations to their home in Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). The law of the Jubilee will be reinstated. In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings. Some gentiles have tried to put an ugly spin on this theology, claiming that Jews plan to force people to convert to our religion, perhaps based on their own religion's history of doing exactly the same thing. That is not at all how Jews understand the messianic age. We believe that in that future time, everyone will simply know what the truth is, in the same way that we know that 2+2=4, and there will no longer be any reason to argue about it. It is much like a situation I witnessed at work once: two computer programmers were arguing loudly and at length about whether it was possible for a user to input data at a certain point in a program. Finally someone pressed a key and they all saw that nothing happened. Now they knew the truth, end of argument. When mashiach comes, theological truths will be equally obvious to mankind, and there will be no reason to argue about it. What About Jesus? Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do. On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach. Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the mashiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the mashiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the entry for meshiekh in The New Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the mashiach; therefore, none of them were the mashiach. The mashiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past. |
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Not a problem, but too many Christians try to make us convert . Isaiah is known as one of the lesser prophets, in my Tanah much of what you have is missing, also much attributed to him is written by others. He was preaching a message of hope during the Babalyon Dispora. You have to take it with a grain of salt. Most of what we have on the Messiah is other writings, as Rabbis.
To us calling Jesus a god is a sin, a major sin. The term 'Son of G*d' is a concept of the Essene, and referes to the whole of the community and our relationship with G*D |
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Quoted:
sorry but that is like Clinton and sex.....you can define it how you like but according to Judiasm it is a sin and wrong I am saying that Jesus is YHWH. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is the Creator. The Beginning and the End. The Great I Am. |
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Quoted:
Sorry, totally wrong, he was a teacher, a rabbi, it was a century before we was diefied, and that was eventually used to create a new religion and to placate many pagans Sorry but you are totally wrong. He was not deified. He was always and will always be God. He Himself said, "I and My Father are one." and "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father." If you don't like that then you won't like Heaven. That teacher and rabbi who you think is just a man will be your judge and He is your God whether you realize it or not. |