Posted: 11/9/2011 7:28:49 PM EDT
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There are a couple layers to this onion, so bear with me.
I'm a divorced Catholic. I married my first wife in the Church and we were both Catholic...and then got divorced. We did not have children. So, you may know what that means, I'm not in good graces with the church. I really didn't care about my standing with the church for years...until, you guessed it, I got remarried and I had children. I'm conservative, politically, morally, etc. I respect the doctrine of Catholic church because it doesn't compromise on it's values. (recent scandals notwithstanding) That said, I looked into the annulment process, and I am not willing to risk subjecting my current family to contact with my ex-wife, who is unstable. Also, in full candor, it's been years since I've had to deal with her, and I just don't need that in my life again. (she has not, to my knowledge moved on. It's been 10 years and she still calls members of my family every year or two to explain how I am responsible for ruining her life). Finally, I think I'd have to be less than truthful to get an annulment approved by the diocesan tribunal. Obviously, then any result which got me back into good graces with the church under those circumstances would be a sham. Anyway, not to get sidetracked on the divorce details; here's why I'm posting: I don't really know anything about other Christian denominations. I am considering raising my kids in another church, but I want to make sure it's consistent with my values. Basically if it's ordaining homosexual clergy, endorsing "the God of many messengers" and stuff like that, I regard that as heresy and want nothing to do with it. I literally don't know what the difference between, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists etc are. What denomination should I start looking at? I've talked this over with my current wife, who is Catholic. Obviously she's not thrilled about leaving the RC church, but she'd like to be in "good graces" with whatever church we go to. She isn't right now, because basically as far as the church is concerned, I'm still married to my first wife and my current wife is abetting adultery (along with having my bastard children, as far as the church is concerned). Example, she has a family member who is a Catholic priest. If this family member is visiting her mom and we show up, even with our kids, he gets up and leaves. Also, in full candor, I have a pretty good idea of where I'm going to end up when this is all over and I've made peace with it (i.e., you have to repent to be forgiven...and some of the things I've done I'm not sorry for), what I'm looking for is to bring my children up to be better people. I don't see that as hypocritical. YMMV. Anyway, suggestions for a new congregation anyone? This is kind of coming to the fore because my son is being baptized this weekend. My daughter's baptism was under the circumstances described above a couple years ago, and it was sort of a painful experience for my wife and I. |
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There are a couple layers to this onion, so bear with me. I'm a divorced Catholic. I married my first wife in the Church and we were both Catholic...and then got divorced. We did not have children. So, you may know what that means, I'm not in good graces with the church. I really didn't care about my standing with the church for years...until, you guessed it, I got remarried and I had children. I'm conservative, politically, morally, etc. I respect the doctrine of Catholic church because it doesn't compromise on it's values. (recent scandals notwithstanding) That said, I looked into the annulment process, and I am not willing to risk subjecting my current family to contact with my ex-wife, who is unstable. Also, in full candor, it's been years since I've had to deal with her, and I just don't need that in my life again. (she has not, to my knowledge moved on. It's been 10 years and she still calls members of my family every year or two to explain how I am responsible for ruining her life). Finally, I think I'd have to be less than truthful to get an annulment approved by the diocesan tribunal. Obviously, then any result which got me back into good graces with the church under those circumstances would be a sham. Anyway, not to get sidetracked on the divorce details; here's why I'm posting: I don't really know anything about other Christian denominations. I am considering raising my kids in another church, but I want to make sure it's consistent with my values. Basically if it's ordaining homosexual clergy, endorsing "the God of many messengers" and stuff like that, I regard that as heresy and want nothing to do with it. I literally don't know what the difference between, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists etc are. What denomination should I start looking at? I've talked this over with my current wife, who is Catholic. Obviously she's not thrilled about leaving the RC church, but she'd like to be in "good graces" with whatever church we go to. She isn't right now, because basically as far as the church is concerned, I'm still married to my first wife and my current wife is abetting adultery (along with having my bastard children, as far as the church is concerned). Example, she has a family member who is a Catholic priest. If this family member is visiting her mom and we show up, even with our kids, he gets up and leaves. Also, in full candor, I have a pretty good idea of where I'm going to end up when this is all over and I've made peace with it (i.e., you have to repent to be forgiven...and some of the things I've done I'm not sorry for), what I'm looking for is to bring my children up to be better people. I don't see that as hypocritical. YMMV. Anyway, suggestions for a new congregation anyone? This is kind of coming to the fore because my son is being baptized this weekend. My daughter's baptism was under the circumstances described above a couple years ago, and it was sort of a painful experience for my wife and I. Oh Man!! Sorry to hear of your Grief. I don't know what to say? I'm a RC myself and find the Church exceptionally Forgiving in most matters , but not Yours... 
I wish there was an alternative for people like you. If you were in a Larger city you could join a RC Church-that no one knew of your Previous Marriage/Divorse and Pretend it Did Not Happen––After all there is NO unforgivable sin. Sorry to hear and I will say a Special Prayer for you and your Family Brother. PS––You know I forgive you!!! 
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God forgives all sins OP. The unforgivable sin can't happen yet, as it can only be committed by the elect, and that time is not here yet.
It is God, not the church, that forgives. If they hold this against you, then they are in violation of their own doctrine. Divorce is not always a sin either. God himself, is a divorcee. If they hold that over you, then they are in it for control, and not for God. |
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I went through the annulment process about six years ago. My family never had any contact with the ex wife. The only people who had any contact with her were the annulment people and that was through the mail. Thankfully, she lives about fours hours away! Also thankfully, neither she nor I were members of the RC church when we got married. That made the annulment process much easier.
It sounds like you and your wife and your families are devout Catholics. Don't leave the Church because of this. Find a parish in your area with one of those liberal pastors; he might streamline the annulment for you and not subject you to all the horror. It's worth a try. Good luck! ETA: after your annulment is granted, make sure to have your marriage convalidated in the RC Church. You'll be glad you went through all that purgatory when you're back in a state of grace. |
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God forgives all sins OP. The unforgivable sin can't happen yet, as it can only be committed by the elect, and that time is not here yet. It is God, not the church, that forgives. If they hold this against you, then they are in violation of their own doctrine. Divorce is not always a sin either. God himself, is a divorcee. If they hold that over you, then they are in it for control, and not for God. Is the unforgivable sin your talking about is taking on the mark of the beast?? But what about Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit Matthew 12:31-32 says it would not be forgiven in this world or the next. Mark 3:29-30 ; Luke 12:10 also deal with that form of blasphemy ,but Mark kinda of sounds like they may have I slim chance. Just a question. But I do feel sorry for the op if you can't get that issue resolved with your church. And even if you go to another RC church it may come out later on especially since you feel that you need to leave your church over it. The only advice I can give is if you do start looking for a new church home or denomination is to work the "Be Attitudes" (Matthew 5) ,and Paul's writings to the church in with your devotional time. When you have the Word in you its hard to be led astray ,and you know to pray. |
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Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Not allowing the Holy Spirit to speak through you when called to testify against the anti Christ if you are one of the zedek.
The mark of the beast is an internal mark, in your mind meaning that you have chosen to believe that the Anti Christ is Christ. |
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I went through the annulment process about six years ago. My family never had any contact with the ex wife. The only people who had any contact with her were the annulment people and that was through the mail. Thankfully, she lives about fours hours away! Also thankfully, neither she nor I were members of the RC church when we got married. That made the annulment process much easier. It sounds like you and your wife and your families are devout Catholics. Don't leave the Church because of this. Find a parish in your area with one of those liberal pastors; he might streamline the annulment for you and not subject you to all the horror. It's worth a try. Good luck! ETA: after your annulment is granted, make sure to have your marriage convalidated in the RC Church. You'll be glad you went through all that purgatory when you're back in a state of grace. In all honesty, I have not been devout and I'm not a very good Christian. I know this and I've never had any illusions about it. I've known for years how to be a good one, but I just haven't been willing to do it. Call it pride, whatever. I went from the age of 15 to 40 without praying once, literally. I made it through hundreds of combat missions as an Infantryman, never said a prayer once, no matter how hairy it got. I believed in the existence of God the whole time. He was totally absent from my life as far as I was concerned. I didn't have children until a little later in life (in my 40's), and now that I have them (they are still very small), I want to do what's right. I never felt an inkling of the grace of God in my life until I had children. Now I do. I want my children to have that as a foundation in their lives. I didn't have that foundation in my life for reasons that are beyond the scope of this post. I don't want to deny that to my kids. As for contact with the ex, she's the type of person who would get all stirred up about this, even though its been 10 years. I could honestly picture her showing up out of the blue hysterical and pounding on my door at 6am on Saturday morning. There was a ton of histrionic behavior when we were married, which is why we're not anymore. ETA: thanks to all for your considered responses. I have some stuff to think about. |
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Full disclosure - as a devout Catholic myself, I am not going to answer your question about other denominations. Not only am I not qualified to do so, I cannot do so in good conscience. My advice would be to do whatever you can to get yourself and your family into a state of grace in the Catholic Church. You may decide you don't care what else I have to say, and that's fine.
Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church or just one among many choices of Christian churches? Does your wife believe this? If you truly believe that the Catholic Church is the the one, true Church then you are doing absolutely wrong by your wife and for your children by looking for another Christian community. If you don't, then I pray that you will find your way. The truth does not change because you have decided to skirt around it. When you and your first wife got married were you ever devout practicing Catholics? Were you properly catechized to what the Church teaches and why? Did you understand your vows as they relate to a Catholic marriage regarding children, natural family planning, etc? If not, then perhaps you could get an annulment. Yes, it probably will stir up trouble with your ex-wife, but she does not have to cooperate with the process for it to go through. I am truly sorry that you have this cross to bear, I really am. I spent many years away from the Church, never praying and only going to Mass on Christmas and Easter. I married a non-Catholic, then reverted to the Catholic Church and have caused a lot of turmoil in my marriage because of it. So, I do understand somewhat the predicament you are in having to deal with some unwise decisions in life. I will pray for you and your family. |
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OP, might want to check out the Orthodox! I'm on my phone, so can't easily im you now. I went from Catholic to Orthodox and enough is similar that the change isn't too difficult. Send me an email and we can discuss more. Go to www.orthodoxyinamerica.org to see if there are any parishes near you. Your best bet are parishes in the Antiochian Archdiocese or the Orthodox Church in America, both are the best bets for all English services (the Greek parishes often have services all or largely in Greek).
BTW, the Orthodox don't do the annulment thing. We actually allow divorce and remarriage after. Reasons later. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ETA: OP, I just saw you're in PA. Heck, yes, tons of Orthodox parishes there. Shouldn't have much trouble at all finding one. |
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OP, might want to check out the Orthodox! I'm on my phone, so can't easily im you now. I went from Catholic to Orthodox and enough is similar that the change isn't too difficult. Send me an email and we can discuss more. Go to www.orthodoxyinamerica.org to see if there are any parishes near you. Your best bet are parishes in the Antiochian Archdiocese or the Orthodox Church in America, both are the best bets for all English services (the Greek parishes often have services all or largely in Greek). BTW, the Orthodox don't do the annulment thing. We actually allow divorce and remarriage after. Reasons later. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ETA: OP, I just saw you're in PA. Heck, yes, tons of Orthodox parishes there. Shouldn't have much trouble at all finding one. I second this, please check out your local Orthodox Church, depending on where you are in PA I might even be able to recommend a specific priest to talk to. |
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OP, might want to check out the Orthodox! I'm on my phone, so can't easily im you now. I went from Catholic to Orthodox and enough is similar that the change isn't too difficult. Send me an email and we can discuss more. Go to www.orthodoxyinamerica.org to see if there are any parishes near you. Your best bet are parishes in the Antiochian Archdiocese or the Orthodox Church in America, both are the best bets for all English services (the Greek parishes often have services all or largely in Greek). BTW, the Orthodox don't do the annulment thing. We actually allow divorce and remarriage after. Reasons later. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ETA: OP, I just saw you're in PA. Heck, yes, tons of Orthodox parishes there. Shouldn't have much trouble at all finding one. I second this, please check out your local Orthodox Church, depending on where you are in PA I might even be able to recommend a specific priest to talk to. I have PA contacts, as well. |
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Quoted: OP:Full disclosure - as a devout Catholic myself, I am not going to answer your question about other denominations. Not only am I not qualified to do so, I cannot do so in good conscience. My advice would be to do whatever you can to get yourself and your family into a state of grace in the Catholic Church. You may decide you don't care what else I have to say, and that's fine. Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church or just one among many choices of Christian churches? Does your wife believe this? If you truly believe that the Catholic Church is the the one, true Church then you are doing absolutely wrong by your wife and for your children by looking for another Christian community. If you don't, then I pray that you will find your way. The truth does not change because you have decided to skirt around it. When you and your first wife got married were you ever devout practicing Catholics? Were you properly catechized to what the Church teaches and why? Did you understand your vows as they relate to a Catholic marriage regarding children, natural family planning, etc? If not, then perhaps you could get an annulment. Yes, it probably will stir up trouble with your ex-wife, but she does not have to cooperate with the process for it to go through. I am truly sorry that you have this cross to bear, I really am. I spent many years away from the Church, never praying and only going to Mass on Christmas and Easter. I married a non-Catholic, then reverted to the Catholic Church and have caused a lot of turmoil in my marriage because of it. So, I do understand somewhat the predicament you are in having to deal with some unwise decisions in life. I will pray for you and your family. I want to second what Catitude says. You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain by going through the process, as you will have an answer one way or the other. Just be truthful about it when answering the questions and let the tribunal figure it out. Just the fact that your wife is unstable (and apparently displayed this during the marriage) could very well be a major factor in getting an annulment granted. It was that way for my uncle, as his wife was unstable (had been the entire marriage) and it was one of the deciding factors in the annulment being granted. Your lack of devotion is another, as it demonstrates that you were poorly catechized and probably didn't understand what the Church was expecting of you when you got married. You don't have to have any contact with her, and if she shows up banging on the door... well, that's what the police are for. |
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OP, might want to check out the Orthodox! I'm on my phone, so can't easily im you now. I went from Catholic to Orthodox and enough is similar that the change isn't too difficult. Send me an email and we can discuss more. Go to www.orthodoxyinamerica.org to see if there are any parishes near you. Your best bet are parishes in the Antiochian Archdiocese or the Orthodox Church in America, both are the best bets for all English services (the Greek parishes often have services all or largely in Greek). BTW, the Orthodox don't do the annulment thing. We actually allow divorce and remarriage after. Reasons later. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ETA: OP, I just saw you're in PA. Heck, yes, tons of Orthodox parishes there. Shouldn't have much trouble at all finding one. I second this, please check out your local Orthodox Church, depending on where you are in PA I might even be able to recommend a specific priest to talk to. Aren't the Greek Orthodox churches uniates? How can they have a different approach to dogmatic matters when they recognize the authority of the pope? |
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OP:
Full disclosure - as a devout Catholic myself, I am not going to answer your question about other denominations. Not only am I not qualified to do so, I cannot do so in good conscience. My advice would be to do whatever you can to get yourself and your family into a state of grace in the Catholic Church. You may decide you don't care what else I have to say, and that's fine. Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church or just one among many choices of Christian churches? Does your wife believe this? If you truly believe that the Catholic Church is the the one, true Church then you are doing absolutely wrong by your wife and for your children by looking for another Christian community. If you don't, then I pray that you will find your way. The truth does not change because you have decided to skirt around it. When you and your first wife got married were you ever devout practicing Catholics? Were you properly catechized to what the Church teaches and why? Did you understand your vows as they relate to a Catholic marriage regarding children, natural family planning, etc? If not, then perhaps you could get an annulment. Yes, it probably will stir up trouble with your ex-wife, but she does not have to cooperate with the process for it to go through. I am truly sorry that you have this cross to bear, I really am. I spent many years away from the Church, never praying and only going to Mass on Christmas and Easter. I married a non-Catholic, then reverted to the Catholic Church and have caused a lot of turmoil in my marriage because of it. So, I do understand somewhat the predicament you are in having to deal with some unwise decisions in life. I will pray for you and your family. I want to second what Catitude says. You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain by going through the process, as you will have an answer one way or the other. Just be truthful about it when answering the questions and let the tribunal figure it out. Just the fact that your wife is unstable (and apparently displayed this during the marriage) could very well be a major factor in getting an annulment granted. It was that way for my uncle, as his wife was unstable (had been the entire marriage) and it was one of the deciding factors in the annulment being granted. Your lack of devotion is another, as it demonstrates that you were poorly catechized and probably didn't understand what the Church was expecting of you when you got married. You don't have to have any contact with her, and if she shows up banging on the door... well, that's what the police are for. In all candor, I knew what the requirements of the church were when I got married. When we were going through cathecism, I basically was like I'm not having kids with this woman, and it was because I didn't want to bring them up in the environment I knew would ensue. Again, in all candor, I didn't think we'd make it from the day I got married to her. I regard the fact that I didn't listen to my instincts about marrying her as one of the biggest failures in my life. All I can say is that I was a lot younger, and I didn't have confidence in my own judgement. Again, there are a lot of reasons for this that I'm not going to go into. I'll just say that I had a very difficult upbringing and it took me decades to get perspective on it. |
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Aren't the Greek Orthodox churches uniates? How can they have a different approach to dogmatic matters when they recognize the authority of the pope? No, the Greek Orthodox are not. There are Greek CATHOLICS, who have Orthodox liturgical and devotional practices, but they are in communion with Rome. There are something like 20 Eastern (aka Byzantine Rite) Catholic Churches in communion with Rome. AKA Ukrainian Catholics, Eastern Rite Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, Ruthenian Catholics, etc. Hint: if the church has "Orthodox" in its name, by definition it's not in communion with Rome. Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Antiochian Orthodox, etc., are not in communion with Rome. No siree! Does my parish commemorate the pope during litanies? No. Wikipedia article on the Eastern Orthodox Churches Wikipedia article on Eastern CATHOLICS |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP:Full disclosure - as a devout Catholic myself, I am not going to answer your question about other denominations. Not only am I not qualified to do so, I cannot do so in good conscience. My advice would be to do whatever you can to get yourself and your family into a state of grace in the Catholic Church. You may decide you don't care what else I have to say, and that's fine. Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the one, true Church or just one among many choices of Christian churches? Does your wife believe this? If you truly believe that the Catholic Church is the the one, true Church then you are doing absolutely wrong by your wife and for your children by looking for another Christian community. If you don't, then I pray that you will find your way. The truth does not change because you have decided to skirt around it. When you and your first wife got married were you ever devout practicing Catholics? Were you properly catechized to what the Church teaches and why? Did you understand your vows as they relate to a Catholic marriage regarding children, natural family planning, etc? If not, then perhaps you could get an annulment. Yes, it probably will stir up trouble with your ex-wife, but she does not have to cooperate with the process for it to go through. I am truly sorry that you have this cross to bear, I really am. I spent many years away from the Church, never praying and only going to Mass on Christmas and Easter. I married a non-Catholic, then reverted to the Catholic Church and have caused a lot of turmoil in my marriage because of it. So, I do understand somewhat the predicament you are in having to deal with some unwise decisions in life. I will pray for you and your family. I want to second what Catitude says. You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain by going through the process, as you will have an answer one way or the other. Just be truthful about it when answering the questions and let the tribunal figure it out. Just the fact that your wife is unstable (and apparently displayed this during the marriage) could very well be a major factor in getting an annulment granted. It was that way for my uncle, as his wife was unstable (had been the entire marriage) and it was one of the deciding factors in the annulment being granted. Your lack of devotion is another, as it demonstrates that you were poorly catechized and probably didn't understand what the Church was expecting of you when you got married. You don't have to have any contact with her, and if she shows up banging on the door... well, that's what the police are for. In all candor, I knew what the requirements of the church were when I got married. When we were going through cathecism, I basically was like I'm not having kids with this woman, and it was because I didn't want to bring them up in the environment I knew would ensue. Again, in all candor, I didn't think we'd make it from the day I got married to her. I regard the fact that I didn't listen to my instincts about marrying her as one of the biggest failures in my life. All I can say is that I was a lot younger, and I didn't have confidence in my own judgement. Again, there are a lot of reasons for this that I'm not going to go into. I'll just say that I had a very difficult upbringing and it took me decades to get perspective on it. Then I have a feeling that getting an annulment won't be a problem, as you were not willing to be open to children from the start of your marriage. Grave reservation is also an indicator. I strongly urge you to go through with it. Chances are it will be granted, and you will be able to get your current union convalidated. Then you won't have to go looking for another ecclesial community and you can remain in the Church. |
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It is a spiritual divorcement, but a divorcement still. He reconciled with her ( Israel ) through Christ, and formed a new ( marriage) covenant, that was better, and stronger than the old.
Jeremiah 3:6-11 6 During the reign of King Josiah, the Lord said to me, "Have you seen what faithless Israel has done? She has gone up on every high hill and under every spreading tree and has committed adultery there. 7 I thought that after she had done all this she would return to me but she did not, and her unfaithful sister Judah saw it. 8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery. 9 Because Israel's immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. 10 In spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, but only in pretense," declares the Lord. 11 The Lord said to me, "Faithless Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah. |
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Anyone that wants to answer.
If God forgives sins, and sent his son to die on the cross for our sins, and he( Jesus ) is our intercessor, why do we need man's approval as to what sins we are forgiven of. God does not ask us to confess to man, but to him. If we must confess to man, any man, then God's sacrifice is null and void, it was for nothing. |
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Question. Simple yes or no. Do you believe that God forgives sin? Yes. He's the only one Do you believe man forgives sin? Absolutely not. There is no man between you and God. The only one is Jesus Christ, no one else. I'm not catholic BTW. I only came here for the subject in the title, divorce. You said that God himself was a divorcee. I understand that now, he divorced Isreal for their wickedness, however he will/has(?) take them back because of his covonant, and he has made no covanents (married) with anyone else. That begs the question is a remarried man continually living in sin as an adulterer. Is there any forgiveness? Once we see remarriage as not right, do we dissolve the remarriage and abandon that family to make it right again? How would that cause God to be viewed by that wife or any kids not old enough to know any better? Does the verse saying a man that does not take care of his family is no better than an infedel apply there? |
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Anyone that wants to answer. If God forgives sins, and sent his son to die on the cross for our sins, and he( Jesus ) is our intercessor, why do we need man's approval as to what sins we are forgiven of. God does not ask us to confess to man, but to him. If we must confess to man, any man, then God's sacrifice is null and void, it was for nothing. So how do you explain James 5:16? Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
In all disclosure I'm actually Orthodox Catholic so I believe in Confession to a priest but I would think the above would apply to any Christian that believes in the Bible. |
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Quoted: Which is why Jesus said to the apostles "If you forgive the sins of any,Anyone that wants to answer. If God forgives sins, and sent his son to die on the cross for our sins, and he( Jesus ) is our intercessor, why do we need man's approval as to what sins we are forgiven of. God does not ask us to confess to man, but to him. If we must confess to man, any man, then God's sacrifice is null and void, it was for nothing. they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." The only way they could know which sins to forgive and which to retain are if the person tells them what sins they've committed. Jesus gives the apostles the power to forgive sins or retain them (in His name). Jesus expects us to confess our sins to another with the authority to forgive them in the name of Jesus. This power comes only because of and through the sacrifice of Christ Jesus on the Cross. As sharps54 pointed out, we are instructed to confess our sins to another –– the priest specifically according to James. |
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If you live alone, are a hermit , or perhaps out fishing or hunting alone and have an accident, and are dying, with no human contact, can you be forgiven of sin then, without confessing them to someone, or are you destined to die unforgiven?
Also, let's say you were married and then were divorced. Let's assume also that both parties were at fault, but not due to adultery. The ex wife leaves and remarries. After some introspection, you ask God, who has the power to forgive all sins, to forgive you. You are now forgiven. Down the road, you find a wonderful Christian woman and you decide to marry again. If you sin from the past in forgiven, is it not forgiven and wiped from the books as the scripture says? If the scripture is true, the marriage to this new woman is not a sin, because you were forgiven by Jesus' blood, and cleansed and are like a virgin. Either God can forgive sins or he can't., and once you are absolve of that crime, you are not tried of it again. James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. 1) The confession here enjoined is not to be made by a person in health, that he may obtain salvation, but by a sick person, that he may be healed. (2) as mutual confession is here enjoined, a priest would be as much bound to confess to the people as the people to a priest. (3) no mention is made of a priest at all, or even of a minister of religion, as the one to whom the confession is to be made. (4) the confession referred to is for "faults" with reference to "one another," that is, where one has injured another; and nothing is said of confessing faults to those whom we have not injured at all. (5) there is no mention here of absolution, either by a priest or any other person. (6) if anything is meant by absolution that is Scriptural, it may as well be pronounced by one person as another; by a layman as a clergyman. All that it can mean is, that God promises pardon to those who are truly penitent, and this fact may as well be stated by one person as another. No priest, no man whatever, is empowered to say to another either that he is truly penitent, or to forgive sin. "Who can forgive sins but God only?" None but he whose law has been violated, or who has been wronged, can pardon an offence. No third person can forgive a sin which a man has committed against a neighbor; no one but a parent can pardon the offences of which his own children have been guilty towards him; and who can put himself in the place of God, and presume to pardon the sins which his creatures have committed against him? |
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Whose soever sins ... - See the notes at Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18. It is worthy of remark here that Jesus confers the same power on all the apostles. He gives to no one of them any special authority. If Peter, as the < "Catholics" - derogatory term removed > pretend, had been appointed to any special authority, it is wonderful that the Saviour did not here hint at any such pre-eminence. This passage conclusively proves that they were invested with equal power in organizing and governing the church. The authority which he had given Peter to preach the gospel first to the Jews and the Gentiles, does not militate against this. See the notes at Matthew 16:18-19. This authority given them was full proof that they were inspired. The meaning of the passage is not that man can forgive sins that belongs only to God Isaiah 43:23 but that they should be inspired; that in founding the church, and in declaring the will of God, they should be taught by the Holy Spirit to declare on what terms, to what characters, and to what temper of mind God would extend forgiveness of sins. It was not authority to forgive individuals, but to establish in all the churches the terms and conditions on which men might be pardoned, with a promise that God would confirm all that they taught; that all might have assurance of forgiveness who would comply with those terms; and that those who did not comply should not be forgiven, but that their sins should be retained. This commission is as far as possible from the authority which the Roman Catholic claims of remitting sin and of pronouncing pardon. I must be honest here, I did see the word Catholic when I first read the OP's question. If I had, I would not have replied at all, as my advice would not fit into his doctrine. I saw a person in need, and had it on my heart to try and ease his mind, and offer some advice, according to the doctrine of my upbringing, which is Protestant. I did not mean to stir the pot or anything like that. Though we have many things in common, such as our love of Christ, and our trials and tribulations in our attempts to follow him, we also have many differences, and neither of us will convince the other of their views. The last two posts by me were answers to specific questions, and I won't go any further with it, and I don't intend to cause ill will between us. Our discussion has been interesting and informative, and I thank you for that. With that, I will opt out of this thread. God bless you all. Charles |
| I wanted to come here and apologize for the term that last post contained. That was copied and pasted from an article where I was reading through it for scripture, and it had several listings from concordances and other study guides, as well as the scripture in question from several different versions of the Bible, though I use the 1611 King James. I glazed over the aforementioned text, and since it was worded probably better than anything I could write, I just copied and pasted it. I'm not sure that I remember seeing the word in question, and even if I did, I was not aware of the derogatory nature of it. I live in a very heavily Protestant region, and have never actually heard it used any way. Again, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended, as that certainly wasn't my desire. |
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Anyone that wants to answer. If God forgives sins, and sent his son to die on the cross for our sins, and he( Jesus ) is our intercessor, why do we need man's approval as to what sins we are forgiven of. God does not ask us to confess to man, but to him. If we must confess to man, any man, then God's sacrifice is null and void, it was for nothing. Yes, i whole heartedly agree on this point. The fact that Jesus Christ who first suffered and then died potentially for all man's sin, that is, making God's forgivness process unto man a reality through Him the only way to recieve God's mercy toward man in which there is no other way is a truly awe inspiring thing indeed. And consequently according to this, there is no longer any condemnation unto men, and women who are called by Christ's Name. But, however as that is for man right now within this present dispensation of grace, there still must be by a man, or woman, the desire to turn away from sin, that is any sin that one might ask God in Jesus name to be absolved of, or for God to not remember anymore. So does this mean that we will always meet that mark of perfection shown to us by our Creator who for all intents and purposes is Jesus Christ? Well of course it doesn't. But however as that might be for us, the process of forgivness by God is also a process of perfecting in us, and through us, by the Holy Spirit of God and with power. Without God's Spirit in each and everyone of us who are called by God for service unto Him, that is, a person maintaining and staying in a habitual patteren of sinning, which over time becomes even more prevailent in a person's life even though that person continually asks or petitions God for mercy as to forgive them, then it is that person who has not died to self and has not put off the old man, or the universal sin nature that is within all of us as chief, ultimatley as a major driving force unto physical, and then a spiritual, death of deaths. And this is the person in which the Bible speaks of, the one who loves and practices sin as a rule in his, or her, own life as a natural or common driving force of occupation according to the law of sin, and death, who will persh and suffer great and terrible things as an eternally bound captive. The Bible states that the person who has the Spirit of God dwelling on the inside of them,truly does have eternal life and a right to that life with honor and peace as a joint-heir concerning God's Kingdom with Christ as our King, and our only Priest. It is a Biblical fact, and truth also in the absolute, that no one comes to the Father exept through the Son who was sent by Him, that being Jesus Christ. But however as that is for us though, as a glorious and wonderful thing, a supreme gift that is offered unto the all of mankind, there will be unfortunatly many who will not enter into God's rest not because they did not believe in a supreme being per say, because in reality most people especially in times of duress, or in a life threatening situation most certainly do of some sort. There is only one unforgivable or unpardonable sin that will send a person's remaining spirit, or soul, into the outer darkness of hell away from God. A person, that's anyone can curse God, that is the Father, or Son, and still through true repentance of such an action still recieve forgivness and enter into the Kingdom of God. It is by denying and thus cursing the Holy Spirit of God, or the Third Person of the Trinity of God, as they are all One in the sense of ultimate function and unity in Christ, that will not be forgiven either now, or in the time to come, when at that appointed hour we all shall be judged according to a reward for the choosen of God through Christ Jesus, or to be dispached into a eternal state of seperation from God through a purly legal judgement without Christ, and without an advocate or counsel. Jesus said,''If you deny Me before men then I will deny you before My Father''. It is the God given responsibility of each and every person who claims the title of ''Christian,'' to know and fully understand that without the Holy Spirit, or Ghost, living on the inside of us that we will be as those that will be the ones who will cry out to God saying,''Lord ,Lord, didn't we cast out devils and do all of these other miraculous things in your blessed and holy Name?'' And the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, will proclaim as One,''Depart from Me you who work iniquity for I never knew you!'' So how is it that a person in and of his or her ownself be succsessfull when it comes to attaining eternal life through Jesus Christ? You cannot do this even if you confess Jesus Christ as your personal Lord, and Savior, even with your own mouth. And the reason for this is that you have not entered into a personal relationship with God because you have not discipled with God, through Jesus Christ by the means of having the Holy Spirit residing on the inside of you, and invited as an eternal formation with God, that is, Jesus. And this is to be born-again of the water and of the Spirit of God. You must be born- again and thus this being the supreme evidence of being borne of God as your Ancestor, High Priest, and King! It is God's own Spirit, who authenticates the truth of Jesus Christ and what He willingly did for us upon an old rugged cross of death so that we might inherit eternal life. The Bible clearly states that,''Cursed is every man that hangs from a tree.'' And so Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God did this for us, and sealed us unto redemption by His own Blood. Love. |
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OP, might want to check out the Orthodox! I'm on my phone, so can't easily im you now. I went from Catholic to Orthodox and enough is similar that the change isn't too difficult. Send me an email and we can discuss more. Go to www.orthodoxyinamerica.org to see if there are any parishes near you. Your best bet are parishes in the Antiochian Archdiocese or the Orthodox Church in America, both are the best bets for all English services (the Greek parishes often have services all or largely in Greek). BTW, the Orthodox don't do the annulment thing. We actually allow divorce and remarriage after. Reasons later. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ETA: OP, I just saw you're in PA. Heck, yes, tons of Orthodox parishes there. Shouldn't have much trouble at all finding one. This. And yes, there are many parishes in PA. When you post something like this in a forum like this, you're bound to get many replies and IMs. I think the Orthodox church offers you much of what you seek without the things you don't want. I would gladly take an IM, email if you're interested in hearing more about how it "feels" than what the official positions and practices are. We're different. At least in the Russian churches, converts are replacing the emigre population in many parishes, as the latter dies out and their descendants (like me) become more Americanized. Americans are the future of the Russian Orthodox church in the United States, but the flavor (and flavors, literally) of Russia and her culture remain a part of it. In my parish we have many converts from various Protestant denominations, enough that there are almost two parishes, the English (American) and Slavonic (Russian) groups. What you get in any Orthodox parish is a measure of consistency (through the liturgy), tradition, and conservatism that is there for you when you want it. On paper, it seems daunting. In practice, because there's a whole part of the world born into it, the church is there at whatever level of intensity you desire. |
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I wanted to come here and apologize for the term that last post contained. That was copied and pasted from an article where I was reading through it for scripture, and it had several listings from concordances and other study guides, as well as the scripture in question from several different versions of the Bible, though I use the 1611 King James. I glazed over the aforementioned text, and since it was worded probably better than anything I could write, I just copied and pasted it. I'm not sure that I remember seeing the word in question, and even if I did, I was not aware of the derogatory nature of it. I live in a very heavily Protestant region, and have never actually heard it used any way. Again, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended, as that certainly wasn't my desire. The whole post was offensive IMO, not just the blatant diatribe. But frankly that's par for the course on ARFCOM, in or out of the religion forum. You may want to listen to or read Scott Hahn on the Petrine trajectory of the Catholic Church. I think he may have actually looked at both sides of that coin, in the original languages, and come to a conclusion based on decades of study rather than an internet cut-n-paste. |
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I wanted to come here and apologize for the term that last post contained. That was copied and pasted from an article where I was reading through it for scripture, and it had several listings from concordances and other study guides, as well as the scripture in question from several different versions of the Bible, though I use the 1611 King James. I glazed over the aforementioned text, and since it was worded probably better than anything I could write, I just copied and pasted it. I'm not sure that I remember seeing the word in question, and even if I did, I was not aware of the derogatory nature of it. I live in a very heavily Protestant region, and have never actually heard it used any way. Again, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended, as that certainly wasn't my desire. The whole post was offensive IMO, not just the blatant diatribe. But frankly that's par for the course on ARFCOM, in or out of the religion forum. You may want to listen to or read Scott Hahn on the Petrine trajectory of the Catholic Church. I think he may have actually looked at both sides of that coin, in the original languages, and come to a conclusion based on decades of study rather than an internet cut-n-paste. Can you give a Cliff's Notes version or is it prohibitively long? |
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I wanted to come here and apologize for the term that last post contained. That was copied and pasted from an article where I was reading through it for scripture, and it had several listings from concordances and other study guides, as well as the scripture in question from several different versions of the Bible, though I use the 1611 King James. I glazed over the aforementioned text, and since it was worded probably better than anything I could write, I just copied and pasted it. I'm not sure that I remember seeing the word in question, and even if I did, I was not aware of the derogatory nature of it. I live in a very heavily Protestant region, and have never actually heard it used any way. Again, I would like to apologize to anyone I may have offended, as that certainly wasn't my desire. The whole post was offensive IMO, not just the blatant diatribe. But frankly that's par for the course on ARFCOM, in or out of the religion forum. You may want to listen to or read Scott Hahn on the Petrine trajectory of the Catholic Church. I think he may have actually looked at both sides of that coin, in the original languages, and come to a conclusion based on decades of study rather than an internet cut-n-paste. Can you give a Cliff's Notes version or is it prohibitively long? Don't know if there are cliff notes. Try this link. Its fairly lengthy read, although not exhaustive by any stretch. Peter and the Papacy |
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You might want to look into one of these around your vicinity. I wouldn't leave the church. My wife and I are both Catholic and we used one of their priests to marry us outdoors. We both wanted to be married at a certain location and not inside of a church so we didn't need to do the 9 mos. marriage prep classes and we were told anyways that a "real" RC priest doesn't marry people outdoors but will honor it. Plus, we had already been living together for 3 yrs. They did not care about that. All the couples in our 3 month prep class were Catholic. Some divorced and remarrying, already had children, pregnant, only one of them confirmed, and all living together.
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You might want to look into one of these around your vicinity. I wouldn't leave the church. My wife and I are both Catholic and we used one of their priests to marry us outdoors. We both wanted to be married at a certain location and not inside of a church so we didn't need to do the 9 mos. marriage prep classes and we were told anyways that a "real" RC priest doesn't marry people outdoors but will honor it. Plus, we had already been living together for 3 yrs. They did not care about that. All the couples in our 3 month prep class were Catholic. Some divorced and remarrying, already had children, pregnant, only one of them confirmed, and all living together. American Catholic You already did... Not any more... Sounds like you wanted some of the religion without actually living the faith. Truly sad. Its like buying an imported, off-llicense copy of something. |