[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Peanuts (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/27/2010 9:01:22 AM EDT
They had a good strip in the Sunday comics. I hope it doesn't come to this. 
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I thought it already has come to this.
May God put us back on the right path.
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All of you that are thinking our kids should pray in school......... now picture it as a Muslim prayer....now how do you feel about it? If it doesn't infringe upon others students beliefs, fine, they can pray to whomever they want. But let's not forget, this country and it's principals are founded on Christian values. |
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If it doesn't infringe upon others students beliefs, fine, they can pray to whomever they want.
You assume they all want to pray to somebody. I remember when school prayer was not only legal, but mandatory. We took turns, no exceptions, reading from the Bible at the start of every school day. Students were required to bow their heads and keep their eyes closed. I hated it. I’d already figured out that the Bible was nothing but mythology by the 3rd grade. The day the Supreme Court issued their ruling was a happy day for me. |
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All of you that are thinking our kids should pray in school......... now picture it as a Muslim prayer....now how do you feel about it? If it doesn't infringe upon others students beliefs, fine, they can pray to whomever they want. But let's not forget, this country and it's principals are founded on Christian values. And lets not forget what the first 1st Amendment says! 
You think I give a hoot what God people were praying to roughly 200 years ago? It just so happens that the document those "Christians" created says I don't (and my kids don't) have to pray to YOUR god. I don't care if kids pray in school on their own time, it's school run prayer that I would fight....... All to often I feel like Christians interpret that the first amendment to mean that they have freedom from your religion, but you have to follow theirs. This is especially true when pertaining to the gov't and religion. "Keep that Muslim religion out of my kids school, but you'd better say "Under (my) God" in the pledge of allegiance." 
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Keep in mind Hoody that it is only a society founded on biblical principals that even gives kids an option.
You might not believe in the God of the Founding Fathers but you have to respect the liberty that even you enjoy living under His principles. The Founding Fathers never intended to strip God from every aspect of government and culture.....you can verify that by simply reading their writings and the Constitution itself. It doesn't take spread sheets and university studies to understand that the entire moral compass of today's school children is in far worse shape than another time in our nations history. Little Hoody might not have to suffer through hearing His Teacher pray....but I have to wonder if he will be the better for it. |
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Keep in mind Hoody that it is only a society founded on biblical principals that even gives kids an option. You might not believe in the God of the Founding Fathers but you have to respect the liberty that even you enjoy living under His principles. The Founding Fathers never intended to strip God from every aspect of government and culture.....you can verify that by simply reading their writings and the Constitution itself. It doesn't take spread sheets and university studies to understand that the entire moral compass of today's school children is in far worse shape than another time in our nations history. Little Hoody might not have to suffer through hearing His Teacher pray....but I have to wonder if he will be the better for it. It will obviously depend Mrs. Hoody and myself. If anything, I hope he grows up to be less judgmental. He doesn't need religion to learn morals. |
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Keep in mind Hoody that it is only a society founded on biblical principals that even gives kids an option. You might not believe in the God of the Founding Fathers but you have to respect the liberty that even you enjoy living under His principles. The Founding Fathers never intended to strip God from every aspect of government and culture.....you can verify that by simply reading their writings and the Constitution itself. It doesn't take spread sheets and university studies to understand that the entire moral compass of today's school children is in far worse shape than another time in our nations history. Little Hoody might not have to suffer through hearing His Teacher pray....but I have to wonder if he will be the better for it. It will obviously depend Mrs. Hoody and myself. If anything, I hope he grows up to be less judgmental. He doesn't need religion to learn morals. If he has any morals at all.....than he will be judgmental based on his own opinion or derive his moral judgment from some source......but you can't have morals and not recognize that there has been or will be some form of judgment for mankind's actions. Which is my point; there was a time in this Nations History where morality was looked at through the lens of the Bible...and we were better for it. In the future morality will ether have so substantive base or be based on a radical, unforgiving and intolerant religion. If there is no Absolutes....there will be nothing to defend absolutely...............that is until a new majority comes along who demands that everyone agrees with them absolutely or suffer the consequences. Interesting side note: England has rejected Christianity and The Moral authority of any God over the last few dozen years.....and for awhile it appears to be quite the haven for the atheistic and socially liberal free thinkers.....that will change....do a quick web search for the most common boys name in England and you will find the base for England's new morality in the next 50 years. The fact is that as a freedom loving Atheist....your best friend has been The Bible.....and there just might come a day in your lifetime....when you will miss it. |
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All of you that are thinking our kids should pray in school......... now picture it as a Muslim prayer....now how do you feel about it? If it doesn't infringe upon others students beliefs, fine, they can pray to whomever they want. But let's not forget, this country and it's principals are founded on Christian values. And lets not forget what the first 1st Amendment says!
You think I give a hoot what God people were praying to roughly 200 years ago? It just so happens that the document those "Christians" created says I don't (and my kids don't) have to pray to YOUR god. I don't care if kids pray in school on their own time, it's school run prayer that I would fight....... All to often I feel like Christians interpret that the first amendment to mean that they have freedom from your religion, but you have to follow theirs. This is especially true when pertaining to the gov't and religion. "Keep that Muslim religion out of my kids school, but you'd better say "Under (my) God" in the pledge of allegiance." Dude, did you even read what i wrote or just start spewing your anti God dribble??? Nobody said anything about school run prayer. No one said your kids have to do anything. Take a deap breth and relax.
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"Muslim" Someone learn spelling please and be more respectfull. Any disparaging of any religion is not tollerated.
We have the right TO practice religion as well as to NOT practice any- that right was given to us by God and the Founding Fathers knew it. In England (for example) there was a state run religion presided over by the King of England. The people in the colonies knew what that resulted in and revolted against the way that it was run and how people were treated who did not believe their way. RELIGIOUS INTOLLERANCE. There were battles fought in England refering to these that did not agree with the crown. There is no document of state that refers in any way to a 'freedom from religion" in government as a practice. In a letter to another private person...Thomas Jefferson refered to 'freedom OF religion" as a concept for GOVERNMENT. They regularly supported and DEFENDED the right for other people to practice the religion of their heart. I do this as well. If they want to go to a classroom not being used and pray, I applaud and defend that use of the school room. I also accept there will be those that do not want to practice. They can stay away from the classroom. Would I accept a Satanist in my midst to practice? That is a hard thing to decide for a society. Essentially is the enemy of organization and individual freedom. If you were forced in any way to practice a religious observance in a classroom- shame on those running the school. BTW...it also never is very effective. If you want the references and specifics where these statements about our founding fathers can be found or any info for that matter I used here please msg me and I will send them to you. Thnks and God Bless you. |
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Keep in mind Hoody that it is only a society founded on biblical principals that even gives kids an option. You might not believe in the God of the Founding Fathers but you have to respect the liberty that even you enjoy living under His principles. The Founding Fathers never intended to strip God from every aspect of government and culture.....you can verify that by simply reading their writings and the Constitution itself. It doesn't take spread sheets and university studies to understand that the entire moral compass of today's school children is in far worse shape than another time in our nations history. Little Hoody might not have to suffer through hearing His Teacher pray....but I have to wonder if he will be the better for it. No offense, but I'm not interested in having your religion forced dowm my kid's throat because you think it will make her "better" in some way. |
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Keep in mind Hoody that it is only a society founded on biblical principals that even gives kids an option. You might not believe in the God of the Founding Fathers but you have to respect the liberty that even you enjoy living under His principles. The Founding Fathers never intended to strip God from every aspect of government and culture.....you can verify that by simply reading their writings and the Constitution itself. It doesn't take spread sheets and university studies to understand that the entire moral compass of today's school children is in far worse shape than another time in our nations history. Little Hoody might not have to suffer through hearing His Teacher pray....but I have to wonder if he will be the better for it. It will obviously depend Mrs. Hoody and myself. If anything, I hope he grows up to be less judgmental. He doesn't need religion to learn morals. If he has any morals at all.....than he will be judgmental based on his own opinion or derive his moral judgment from some source......but you can't have morals and not recognize that there has been or will be some form of judgment for mankind's actions. Which is my point; there was a time in this Nations History where morality was looked at through the lens of the Bible...and we were better for it. In the future morality will ether have so substantive base or be based on a radical, unforgiving and intolerant religion. If there is no Absolutes....there will be nothing to defend absolutely...............that is until a new majority comes along who demands that everyone agrees with them absolutely or suffer the consequences. The problem with absolutes is that only one set of absolutes can be correct, right? And EVERYONE is convinced that THEIR version of sbsolutes is the correct one. I think history shows that there has never been one set of constant absolutes, and there are none now. |
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All of you that are thinking our kids should pray in school......... now picture it as a Muslim prayer....now how do you feel about it? This isn't a moslem country. And it isn't a Christian one either. You may not want it to be, but it is. And that's a good thing for you. |
| No. The Constitution does not specifically state this is a christian GOVERNMENT. However, all rights and responsibilities are based on the 10 commandments and biblical teachings as well as the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities which stated previously in my post here that it came from our Creator ( as worded in the Declaration of Independance) and was vigorously defended by our founders the concept of freedom OF religion. I can and will provide places to look if you wish for proof. God Bless |
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To all you who hold so fervently to the idea that America is somehow based upon your religion, I'd like to direct you to article 11 of the treaty of tripoli, submitted and signed by John Adams. A legally binding declaration issued by the government of the United States.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." |
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No. The Constitution does not specifically state this is a christian GOVERNMENT. However, all rights and responsibilities are based on the 10 commandments and biblical teachings as well as the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities which stated previously in my post here that it came from our Creator ( as worded in the Declaration of Independance) and was vigorously defended by our founders the concept of freedom OF religion. I can and will provide places to look if you wish for proof. God Bless You can believe your rights are sourced from God, if you wish, but wherever they come from, the structure and authority of our nation and government are in the Constitution. I'm sick and tired of Johnny Dogooders trying to impose their ideas on me and mine becuase somehow they think it's good for me. If I don't want the government imposing an economic philosopy on me, I sure as heck don;t want them imposing a religious philosophy on me. And it deeply concerns me that many who advocate fro "freedom" seem to have no problem at all with government deciding what relgion I should be. |
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No. The Constitution does not specifically state this is a christian GOVERNMENT. However, all rights and responsibilities are based on the 10 commandments and biblical teachings as well as the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities which stated previously in my post here that it came from our Creator ( as worded in the Declaration of Independance) and was vigorously defended by our founders the concept of freedom OF religion. I can and will provide places to look if you wish for proof. God Bless You can believe your rights are sourced from God, if you wish, but wherever they come from, the structure and authority of our nation and government are in the Constitution. I'm sick and tired of Johnny Dogooders trying to impose their ideas on me and mine becuase somehow they think it's good for me. If I don't want the government imposing an economic philosopy on me, I sure as heck don;t want them imposing a religious philosophy on me. And it deeply concerns me that many who advocate fro "freedom" seem to have no problem at all with government deciding what relgion I should be. Give an example, just curious what you mean. I have never seen where anybody was wanting the gov to decide what religon we were. |
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No. The Constitution does not specifically state this is a christian GOVERNMENT. However, all rights and responsibilities are based on the 10 commandments and biblical teachings as well as the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities which stated previously in my post here that it came from our Creator ( as worded in the Declaration of Independance) and was vigorously defended by our founders the concept of freedom OF religion. I can and will provide places to look if you wish for proof. God Bless You can believe your rights are sourced from God, if you wish, but wherever they come from, the structure and authority of our nation and government are in the Constitution. I'm sick and tired of Johnny Dogooders trying to impose their ideas on me and mine becuase somehow they think it's good for me. If I don't want the government imposing an economic philosopy on me, I sure as heck don;t want them imposing a religious philosophy on me. And it deeply concerns me that many who advocate fro "freedom" seem to have no problem at all with government deciding what relgion I should be. Give an example, just curious what you mean. I have never seen where anybody was wanting the gov to decide what religon we were. Well the pledge for one. If you say the official pledge, you are are swearing that you are a deist, a monotheist, and that you believe our nation is under its authority, all of which I do not believe. |
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No. The Constitution does not specifically state this is a christian GOVERNMENT. However, all rights and responsibilities are based on the 10 commandments and biblical teachings as well as the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities which stated previously in my post here that it came from our Creator ( as worded in the Declaration of Independance) and was vigorously defended by our founders the concept of freedom OF religion. I can and will provide places to look if you wish for proof. God Bless You can believe your rights are sourced from God, if you wish, but wherever they come from, the structure and authority of our nation and government are in the Constitution. I'm sick and tired of Johnny Dogooders trying to impose their ideas on me and mine becuase somehow they think it's good for me. If I don't want the government imposing an economic philosopy on me, I sure as heck don;t want them imposing a religious philosophy on me. And it deeply concerns me that many who advocate fro "freedom" seem to have no problem at all with government deciding what relgion I should be. Give an example, just curious what you mean. I have never seen where anybody was wanting the gov to decide what religon we were. Money "In God We Trust" |
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No. The Constitution does not specifically state this is a christian GOVERNMENT. However, all rights and responsibilities are based on the 10 commandments and biblical teachings as well as the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities which stated previously in my post here that it came from our Creator ( as worded in the Declaration of Independance) and was vigorously defended by our founders the concept of freedom OF religion. I can and will provide places to look if you wish for proof. God Bless You can believe your rights are sourced from God, if you wish, but wherever they come from, the structure and authority of our nation and government are in the Constitution. I'm sick and tired of Johnny Dogooders trying to impose their ideas on me and mine becuase somehow they think it's good for me. If I don't want the government imposing an economic philosopy on me, I sure as heck don;t want them imposing a religious philosophy on me. And it deeply concerns me that many who advocate fro "freedom" seem to have no problem at all with government deciding what relgion I should be. Give an example, just curious what you mean. I have never seen where anybody was wanting the gov to decide what religon we were. Well the pledge for one. If you say the official pledge, you are are swearing that you are a deist, a monotheist, and that you believe our nation is under its authority, all of which I do not believe. I don't see that as advocating what religion you should be. If you feel that strongly about it, have your child not say it. write a note to the teacher, I idon't think it would be be much trouble in this day and time. Do schools even recite the pledge anymore ? |
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No. The Constitution does not specifically state this is a christian GOVERNMENT. However, all rights and responsibilities are based on the 10 commandments and biblical teachings as well as the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities which stated previously in my post here that it came from our Creator ( as worded in the Declaration of Independance) and was vigorously defended by our founders the concept of freedom OF religion. I can and will provide places to look if you wish for proof. God Bless You can believe your rights are sourced from God, if you wish, but wherever they come from, the structure and authority of our nation and government are in the Constitution. I'm sick and tired of Johnny Dogooders trying to impose their ideas on me and mine becuase somehow they think it's good for me. If I don't want the government imposing an economic philosopy on me, I sure as heck don;t want them imposing a religious philosophy on me. And it deeply concerns me that many who advocate fro "freedom" seem to have no problem at all with government deciding what relgion I should be. Give an example, just curious what you mean. I have never seen where anybody was wanting the gov to decide what religon we were. Money "In God We Trust" I dont see that as advocating what religon you should be. |
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Money "In God We Trust" I dont see that as advocating what religon you should be. I guess I don't see how it could be anything but advocating religon. How can you see it different? advocating God but not a religon. guess that is just splitting hairs so to speak. I see your point. Does it really bother you ? I am being serious. |
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Money "In God We Trust" I dont see that as advocating what religon you should be. I guess I don't see how it could be anything but advocating religon. How can you see it different? advocating God but not a religon. guess that is just splitting hairs so to speak. I see your point. Does it really bother you ? I am being serious. Sort of. In a way it does because I dont trust in a God, but it doesnt bother me enough to make a scene about it...I just blow it off. |
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Money "In God We Trust" I dont see that as advocating what religon you should be. I guess I don't see how it could be anything but advocating religon. How can you see it different? advocating God but not a religon. guess that is just splitting hairs so to speak. I see your point. Does it really bother you ? I am being serious. Sort of. In a way it does because I dont trust in a God, but it doesnt bother me enough to make a scene about it...I just blow it off. similar to billboards in spanish,there are more of them each year.. 
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Posted by walttx:
Quoted: "One nation under God" "In God We Trust" What god do you think they're talking about? Zeus? Thor? Tezcatlipoca? Lakshmi? Maybe Ganesha? I believe it to be the Christian God. does it bother you ? serious question. The point isn't whether it bothers me. The point is, the government is encouraging belief in a particular god. |
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Posted by walttx:
Quoted: "One nation under God" "In God We Trust" What god do you think they're talking about? Zeus? Thor? Tezcatlipoca? Lakshmi? Maybe Ganesha? I believe it to be the Christian God. does it bother you ? serious question. The point isn't whether it bothers me. The point is, the government is encouraging belief in a particular god. You should be glad that you were born in a country that does/did honor the Christian God. I believe it is one of the reasons this country rose to where it is. IMHO OF course I know you feel way different on that. |
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In God we trust is never been a question. You all can trust in a lucky coin or not so lucky for the rabbits foot. The founding falther were smart enought to put their trust in, 'The Lord God of the Hebrews, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob. According to the guy who wrote the 1st Amendment, that should not even be on our currency anywhere. He felt that the less government and faith mixed..the better. And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together. James Madison ....Freedom arises from the multiplicity of sects, which prevades America and which is the best and only security for religious liberty in any society. For where there is such a variety of sects, there cannot be a majority of any one sect to oppress and persecute the rest. [James Madison, spoken at the Virginia convention on ratifying the Constitution, June 1778] It is clear from these and the the other pages of writings that Madison wanted ZERO faith involved with government and it's functions. Prayer in school being made a no go was a good call...Madison would be happy that was the case in a public school(Private School is a whole other case obviously). It is up to eatch and every person to find their faith and moral compass-god or no god. I have a moral compass..and I don't believe in god. I am a Zen Buddhist and guess what....Buddhists DO NOT believe in a creator god. The Buddahs were just people who become enlightened and passed their wisdom on. |
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Posted by walttx:
You should be glad that you were born in a country that does/did honor the Christian God. I believe it is one of the reasons this country rose to where it is. IMHO OF course I know you feel way different on that. It’s interesting that you feel competent to tell me what I “should” be glad about. IMHO, I think you “should” be glad we don’t live in a country that’s ruled by leaders who demand we all worship a single god and follow the laws put forth in the Bible. But, of course, I’m far too polite to mention it. 
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Posted by walttx:
You should be glad that you were born in a country that does/did honor the Christian God. I believe it is one of the reasons this country rose to where it is. IMHO OF course I know you feel way different on that. It’s interesting that you feel competent to tell me what I “should” be glad about. IMHO, I think you “should” be glad we don’t live in a country that’s ruled by leaders who demand we all worship a single god and follow the laws put forth in the Bible. But, of course, I’m far too polite to mention it.
Like I said that was my opinon. I do worship the God of the Bible,we are not under Mosaic law anymore. I thought you knew that apparantly you would be more upset about it than me. |
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Posted by walttx:
we are not under Mosaic law anymore. That's right. And in this country we never have been. The USA is a secular country. It’s always been a secular country. Every now and then there are mistakes made - “In God We Trust” on money, “One nation under God” in the pledge, mandatory school prayer, laws against teaching science in place of mythology in schools - and other minor slips. Those are eventually corrected where they’re significant. Personally, I don’t consider the first two very significant, though I object to them on principle. They’re easily ignored. They simply refer to the pre-scientific society that gave rise to what we see today. Naturally, there are still plenty of people who are trying to live in that myth-driven society and blame the increasingly secular society of today for all the things they see as bad. That’s OK. The Constitution keeps them from causing too much trouble. |
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No. The Constitution does not specifically state this is a christian GOVERNMENT. However, all rights and responsibilities are based on the 10 commandments and biblical teachings as well as the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights and responsibilities which stated previously in my post here that it came from our Creator ( as worded in the Declaration of Independance) and was vigorously defended by our founders the concept of freedom OF religion. I can and will provide places to look if you wish for proof. God Bless You can believe your rights are sourced from God, if you wish, but wherever they come from, the structure and authority of our nation and government are in the Constitution. I'm sick and tired of Johnny Dogooders trying to impose their ideas on me and mine becuase somehow they think it's good for me. If I don't want the government imposing an economic philosopy on me, I sure as heck don;t want them imposing a religious philosophy on me. And it deeply concerns me that many who advocate fro "freedom" seem to have no problem at all with government deciding what relgion I should be. Give an example, just curious what you mean. I have never seen where anybody was wanting the gov to decide what religon we were. Well the pledge for one. If you say the official pledge, you are are swearing that you are a deist, a monotheist, and that you believe our nation is under its authority, all of which I do not believe. I don't see that as advocating what religion you should be. If you feel that strongly about it, have your child not say it. write a note to the teacher, I idon't think it would be be much trouble in this day and time. Do schools even recite the pledge anymore ? They do around here. In fact, the students take turns leading it over the PA. If sh wants to lead it, she either has to lie about what she believes, or become a source of controversy. I would prefer neither. I don;t see any reason at all God should mentioned in declaring allegience to a secular state. It seriously annoys me in a nation that supposedly doesn't have an official religion. |
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Money "In God We Trust" I dont see that as advocating what religon you should be. I guess I don't see how it could be anything but advocating religon. How can you see it different? advocating God but not a religon. guess that is just splitting hairs so to speak. I see your point. Does it really bother you ? I am being serious. Believing in a "God" IS believing in a religion. It's certainly not a Hindu god.... or a Greek one. And all us atheists don't believe in any god at all. |
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Posted by walttx:
Quoted: "One nation under God" "In God We Trust" What god do you think they're talking about? Zeus? Thor? Tezcatlipoca? Lakshmi? Maybe Ganesha? I believe it to be the Christian God. does it bother you ? serious question. The point isn't whether it bothers me. The point is, the government is encouraging belief in a particular god. You should be glad that you were born in a country that does/did honor the Christian God. I believe it is one of the reasons this country rose to where it is. IMHO OF course I know you feel way different on that. Now, you're changing the subject. :) |
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Posted by walttx:
we are not under Mosaic law anymore. That's right. And in this country we never have been. The USA is a secular country. It’s always been a secular country. Every now and then there are mistakes made - “In God We Trust” on money, “One nation under God” in the pledge, mandatory school prayer, laws against teaching science in place of mythology in schools - and other minor slips. Those are eventually corrected where they’re significant. Personally, I don’t consider the first two very significant, though I object to them on principle. They’re easily ignored. They simply refer to the pre-scientific society that gave rise to what we see today. Naturally, there are still plenty of people who are trying to live in that myth-driven society and blame the increasingly secular society of today for all the things they see as bad. That’s OK. The Constitution keeps them from causing too much trouble. Hold the phone.....I have to ask, just what you mean by the USA is a secular country? Are you implying that is was constructed on the notion that there is no God or Creator who men will be accountable to? Between a corporate belief in God and the outright rejection of God ...which system do you believe has had the most positive impact on America? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights," "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States," It's self-evident my friend...self-evident. The belief in God gives men the freedom to reject God....but the rejection of God never gives men the freedom to believe in God....look it up. |
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Posted by T1NMAN in response to:
Japle: The USA is a secular country. It’s always been a secular country. Hold the phone.....I have to ask, just what you mean by the USA is a secular country? Are you implying that is was constructed on the notion that there is no God or Creator who men will be accountable to? It was constructed on the notion that the issue of whether there’s a god or gods and which one might be genuine is the business of the people as individuals, not the government. Between a corporate belief in God and the outright rejection of God ...which system do you believe has had the most positive impact on America? What do you mean by “a corporate belief”? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights," "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States," Both quotes are from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. Our laws are based on the Constitution, not the D of I. Note that the Right to be Free and Independent States was declared in the name of the People of these Colonies, not any god. It's self-evident my friend...self-evident. The belief in God gives men the freedom to reject God....but the rejection of God never gives men the freedom to believe in God....look it up. Look it up where? Are you saying that no one who’s rejected your god ever changed their mind and “found Jesus”? |
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For crying out loud. Prayer in school will always happen as long as they still give tests. Organized, mandatory, required prayer is not a good idea.
You are taking, at the point of a gun, the tax dollars of others to use for religious purposes. We left England because of the lack of religious freedom that resulted from the government and the church being one. I see the product of public education every day. It is depressing, disheartening and demoralizing to see what passes for 'education' these days. Adding in a mandatory prayer is not the answer. After twenty years in public schools in Texas, I can tell you this, prayer happens all the time. At meetings, at sporting events, at competitions, at lunch time, before a dramaclub play, before a chess tournament, before/during/after school. Any child/parent/faculty that wishes to participate in prayer is fully supported, capable and the opportunities are endless for prayer to be conducted. We don't need the schools to have the ability to choose what prayers are allowed, disallowed, offensive, sanctioned, licensed, taught, memorized, or retold. We have enough problems just agreeing on what books can be read in an English class, what history can be taught, and what classes can be co-ed. Please, just focus on reading, 'riting, and 'rithmatic, for God's sake. I see kids everyday that cannot even do a simple problem solving activity. TRG |
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Quoted:
Posted by T1NMAN in response to:
Japle: The USA is a secular country. It’s always been a secular country. Hold the phone.....I have to ask, just what you mean by the USA is a secular country? Are you implying that is was constructed on the notion that there is no God or Creator who men will be accountable to? It was constructed on the notion that the issue of whether there’s a god or gods and which one might be genuine is the business of the people as individuals, not the government. Between a corporate belief in God and the outright rejection of God ...which system do you believe has had the most positive impact on America? What do you mean by “a corporate belief”? A people group as a whole or large majority of a population. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights," "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States," Both quotes are from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. Our laws are based on the Constitution, not the D of I. Note that the Right to be Free and Independent States was declared in the name of the People of these Colonies, not any god. It's self-evident my friend...self-evident. The belief in God gives men the freedom to reject God....but the rejection of God never gives men the freedom to believe in God....look it up. Look it up where? Are you saying that no one who’s rejected your god ever changed their mind and “found Jesus”? I'm sorry for not being clear in my thoughts. Last week you got offended at a post of mine and the thread was locked before I could clarify that you had misunderstood what I was trying to say. In this case my point is that when you look at Nations over the last couple of hundred years which ones stand out as being the most fair to all people groups? Those which have been built on Judeo Christian values or those that have been built on the complete rejection of God? Has any Nation that has been founded or reconstructed their government to reflect Atheistic values been a beacon of light, hope and freedom to the world? |
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Posted by T1MAN:
When you look at Nations over the last couple of hundred years which ones stand out as being the most fair to all people groups? Those which have been built on Judeo Christian values or those that have been built on the complete rejection of God? The USA has the oldest existing continuous government in the world. It’s a secular government. How many newer governments have state-sponsored Judeo-Christian religions? Serious question. How many? I know you asked about “those which have been built on Judeo Christian values”. Which ones do you mean? Virtually all European governments were established by people who grew up in societies based on Judeo Christian values. That’s hard to avoid. Those values, perverted as they sometimes were by so many governments, were the basis of European society for 1500+ years. How about those that were built on religions other than yours? You can’t just compare Judeo Christian and Atheistic outlooks. Look at all the mid-east countries that were based on religion. They aren’t concerned about fairness to any groups of people. They're a mess. Islam was based on the Torah. Mohammed taught from the Torah and considered the Jews his brothers until they told him to take a hike. Japan was based on the idea that the Emperor was a god. That government committed horrible atrocities. Of course, the Spanish and French and many other so-called “Christian” governments also committed atrocities in the name of Christ. Being a government based on Judeo Christian values isn’t necessarily a good thing. In any case, the only nations I can think of that had Atheism as a part of their philosophy were Communist. Communism failed. Communism failed because it’s not economically competitive with free societies. Their persecution of religious believers, while deplorable, isn’t a major factor in their failure. And I see I’m indulging my tendency to lecture.
Has any Nation that has been founded or reconstructed their government to reflect Atheistic values been a beacon of light, hope and freedom to the world? Nope. And neither have many of the nations based on your religion. |