Posted: 6/23/2009 1:33:43 PM EDT
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I have a 2007 camry with about 42000mi and my check engine light came on. I took it to the dealer and they found that the bank 2 o2 sensor was out. Usually o2 sensors last a lot longer than this. I asked if they would repair it under warranty since it has to do with emissions and they would not.
A new one is gonna be about $250. Is the dealer right about this or am I stuck on paying for it? |
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If you want to REALLY push it politely then you MIGHT get a new one free of charge. Their claim that it's not "emission related" is total horseshit but they ALL do that even tho it'll never pass emissions without them.
If they want $250 for one, i'd do it myself, depending on how easy it is to get to, it's a 10 or 15 minute job with the right tools. It won't cost you anywhere near $250 to do it yourself. But you are right, they should NOT fail at 40 K. Must be that famous Toyota take care of customers, "oh what a squealing" feeling. |
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Push it, as it is an emissions-related device. O2 sensors are very fragile, and depending on the placement of the unit, and its' design, the correct tool for removal and installation is usually stupid expensive, and a one-shot use. You can "buy" them at autozone and return the tool for a full refund when done. |
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Push it, as it is an emissions-related device. O2 sensors are very fragile, and depending on the placement of the unit, and its' design, the correct tool for removal and installation is usually stupid expensive, and a one-shot use. You can "buy" them at autozone and return the tool for a full refund when done. That's good to know, as long as the tool hasn't been buggered up by the previous users. A close examination of the tool, along with the new O2 sensor for trial-fitting should tell the tale. |
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yeah. Well the thing was I had gotten rear ended before so they had replace the entire exhaust up to the manifold. They used the same o2 sensor from the messed up exhaust. I know they usually are able to reuse it but technically they should replace with a new one.
I'm gonna try to see what they say. I normally change out o2 sensors and borrow the tool from autozone but not at 40k miles! |
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yeah. Well the thing was I had gotten rear ended before so they had replace the entire exhaust up to the manifold. They used the same o2 sensor from the messed up exhaust. I know they usually are able to reuse it but technically they should replace with a new one. I'm gonna try to see what they say. I normally change out o2 sensors and borrow the tool from autozone but not at 40k miles! Fair possibility it was damaged in the changeover, which lends you some ammo in demanding a new one from them. |
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That is most definitely an emission control item. If it was me I would be in there arguing in their faces right now but then again I am a mechanic and I will not let another mechanic bullshit me.
If you want to just take the hit and do it yourself, well, it ain't that difficult. Of course using the right O2 sensor socket makes it much easier. |
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Take it to the dealership and bite the bullet.
If you've ever had an oxygen sensor strip threads in a pipe/converter assm, then you'll appreciate why you "should" take it to the dealer. if you still insist to do it yourself, removing the sensor with the engine hot, and penetrating oil, will give you the best results. |
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Oxygen sensors have heater elements in them, and the heaters usually fail long before the actual sensing portion of the sensor does. Japanese manufacturers for whatever reason seem to have more of a problem with this. Mostly Denso manufactured sensors from what I've seen.
And I can't speak for Toyota, but IME with Ford, an O2 sensor is an emissions related component and covered under the federal 8/80 emissions warranty. I would think that Toyota would be the same. |
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Push it, as it is an emissions-related device. O2 sensors are very fragile, and depending on the placement of the unit, and its' design, the correct tool for removal and installation is usually stupid expensive, and a one-shot use. You mean the $5 o2 wrench?? Honestly this is a 5 minute job that anyone with a set of jackstands can do. |
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the second 02 sensor is not normally considered an emissions thing. however if your car is still under warranty, they should have covered. Check with another dealer.
On top of that, if it was a part related to a fix, that should be covered for an additional 1 year 12k miles from the fix. Don't know toyo's warranty off the top of my head so if you are 3/36, you may still be good on the 1 year. If it is 4/48, then you should be able to talk to another dealer to get it taken care of. |
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Push it, as it is an emissions-related device. O2 sensors are very fragile, and depending on the placement of the unit, and its' design, the correct tool for removal and installation is usually stupid expensive, and a one-shot use. You mean the $5 o2 wrench?? Honestly this is a 5 minute job that anyone with a set of jackstands can do. That is about how long mine took me. 7/8" wrench, lay on my back, remove faulty O2, install new O2, clear code, yay. It helps that I have a lifted truck and don't need jackstands though  .
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You said bank 2 Oxygen sensor, but didn't say if it was sensor 1 or sensor 2.
Sensor 1 is upstream(before the cat) sensor 2 is downstream(after the cat). Downstream o2 is easy as long as it doesn't have a harness that goes under the seats.V6 Camry's with a bad upstream o2, by the firewall,are a real treat.Wait until you get a hold of one of those.
Some of the newer Toyota's have a shielded O2 (AFR sensor in Toyota lingo) and require a special tool that you will not find at a local parts store. I would definitely take this up with Toyota because it should be covered under emissions warranty. Not sure if I would tell them about the accident though. |
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You said bank 2 Oxygen sensor, but didn't say if it was sensor 1 or sensor 2. Sensor 1 is upstream(before the cat) sensor 2 is downstream(after the cat). Downstream o2 is easy as long as it doesn't have a harness that goes under the seats.V6 Camry's with a bad upstream o2, by the firewall,are a real treat.Wait until you get a hold of one of those.
Some of the newer Toyota's have a shielded O2 (AFR sensor in Toyota lingo) and require a special tool that you will not find at a local parts store. I would definitely take this up with Toyota because it should be covered under emissions warranty. Not sure if I would tell them about the accident though. Toyota's bank 2 on Camry's is at the front of the car.......Bank 1 is the bank of cylinders with cylinder 1...[bank one on a Toy v-6 would be cyls 1-3-5 bank 2 would be 2-4-6 |
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You said bank 2 Oxygen sensor, but didn't say if it was sensor 1 or sensor 2. Sensor 1 is upstream(before the cat) sensor 2 is downstream(after the cat). Downstream o2 is easy as long as it doesn't have a harness that goes under the seats.V6 Camry's with a bad upstream o2, by the firewall,are a real treat.Wait until you get a hold of one of those.
Some of the newer Toyota's have a shielded O2 (AFR sensor in Toyota lingo) and require a special tool that you will not find at a local parts store. I would definitely take this up with Toyota because it should be covered under emissions warranty. Not sure if I would tell them about the accident though. Toyota's bank 2 on Camry's is at the front of the car.......Bank 1 is the bank of cylinders with cylinder 1...[bank one on a Toy v-6 would be cyls 1-3-5 bank 2 would be 2-4-6 I'm aware of that. Just pointing out that all o2's 'are not easy to get to. |
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You said bank 2 Oxygen sensor, but didn't say if it was sensor 1 or sensor 2. Sensor 1 is upstream(before the cat) sensor 2 is downstream(after the cat). Downstream o2 is easy as long as it doesn't have a harness that goes under the seats.V6 Camry's with a bad upstream o2, by the firewall,are a real treat.Wait until you get a hold of one of those.
Some of the newer Toyota's have a shielded O2 (AFR sensor in Toyota lingo) and require a special tool that you will not find at a local parts store. I would definitely take this up with Toyota because it should be covered under emissions warranty. Not sure if I would tell them about the accident though. Toyota's bank 2 on Camry's is at the front of the car.......Bank 1 is the bank of cylinders with cylinder 1...[bank one on a Toy v-6 would be cyls 1-3-5 bank 2 would be 2-4-6 I'm aware of that. Just pointing out that all o2's 'are not easy to get to. in his case...the suspected bad one isn't difficult to get to.
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Push it, as it is an emissions-related device. O2 sensors are very fragile, and depending on the placement of the unit, and its' design, the correct tool for removal and installation is usually stupid expensive, and a one-shot use. You mean the $5 o2 wrench?? Honestly this is a 5 minute job that anyone with a set of jackstands can do. That is about how long mine took me. 7/8" wrench, lay on my back, remove faulty O2, install new O2, clear code, yay. It helps that I have a lifted truck and don't need jackstands though .Nice that it works out easy, sometimes. OTOH, I have seen instances where it was neither easy not cheap. Just sayin'. |
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A new one is gonna be about $250. Is the dealer right about this or am I stuck on paying for it? My '99 4Runner is a Cali model (originally sold in VA too  ), so it has two expensive O2 sensors (one before and aft of the cat). At an online retailer selling legitimate Denso products, my total was over $300. Bottom line, O2 sensors are pricy... These work fine, and installation on this type didn't require anything special, as they have a flange with a bolt on each side that bolts right into the exhaust. Not a pleasant job mainly because no jobs where you crawl underneath are pleasant.
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There is the possibility that the car is running rich/lean as well. It is not uncommon for a car to have a failed HO2S code, because it is constantly reporting the same condition, and the voltage isn't switching, which can be cause by a bad HO2S, but can also be caused by a rich/lean condition. This rich/lean condition may not be noticeable by the driver, but that doesn't meant that it isn't happening.
Just because somebody works at a Toyota dealerships service department doesn't mean that they have a clue what they are doing. When I was a tech at a Toyota dealer, only a couple of the other techs impressed me as being at all capable of troubleshooting such a problem. I know several people who are convinced that their car eats O2 sensors every few thousand miles, they have engines running rich or lean, and the O2 sensor is reporting it, but the code comes up as a bad O2 sensor so that is what they replace. |
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There is the possibility that the car is running rich/lean as well. It is not uncommon for a car to have a failed HO2S code, because it is constantly reporting the same condition, and the voltage isn't switching, which can be cause by a bad HO2S, but can also be caused by a rich/lean condition. This rich/lean condition may not be noticeable by the driver, but that doesn't meant that it isn't happening. Just because somebody works at a Toyota dealerships service department doesn't mean that they have a clue what they are doing. When I was a tech at a Toyota dealer, only a couple of the other techs impressed me as being at all capable of troubleshooting such a problem. I know several people who are convinced that their car eats O2 sensors every few thousand miles, they have engines running rich or lean, and the O2 sensor is reporting it, but the code comes up as a bad O2 sensor so that is what they replace. So is there anything I can do to find out if it's running rich or lean? |
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Oxygen sensors are made with ceramic materials, so if you were in an accident that damaged the exhaust system, it is most likely that the ceramics were broken during the accident. Your insurance company should pay for the replacement. I'm still awaiting for the bodyshop to call me back on that. I still have the original piping and the bend is pretty close to where the O2 sensors are. |