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Posted: 2/8/2006 1:58:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 5:30:19 AM EDT by desertmoon]
Actually this happened about 24 hours ago.

At about 4:50 a.m. yesterday morning I was headed out to do some early morning shopping. I stoppped at a Circle K and got a pack of smakes and a sodie pop. I run down the road and I make a left turn onto a freeway onramp. For those of you in the PHX Metro Area I was turning onto the US 60 East at Val Vista. This entire area just happens to be under fairly heavy construction so there are only drive lanes.....THERE IS NOHWHERE TO PULL OFF.

As I am halfway down the on ramp, with a semi-tractor trailer rig riding my ass, my Oil Pressure Guage dumps straight to ZERO!!! All bells, lights and whistles come on and my brand new Rubicon starts to shudder. SHIT...I have a semi on my ass, no way in hell to pull off without being killed ( I am NOT kidding ) and I can't down shift without killing the motor. SO...in 4th gear at hardly 40 miles an hour I drive one and a half miles to the next exit, get right off and park in a Wal Mart parking lot that is literally right off the freeway. I am nervously watching the Engine Temperature Gauge but it never moves beyond nominal. Once the vehicle is shut down she won't restart.

So, by 06:30 a.m. I have a tow arranged and she's off to the dealer. At 09:30 a.m. the dealer calls....guess what. The rollpin that holds the impeller to the oil pump main shaft HAS SHEARED!!! When the Oil Pressure in the top end dropped, the vehicle went into "limp" mode until I could get it off the road.

SO, DUE TO A STINKING ROLL PIN, the entire top end of my Jeep engine is at the dealer being rebuilt ( under warranty ) and I'll be damned if I am gonna keep that vehicle.

The 258 AND THE 250 CI inline six motors are legendary for their durability but have recently undergone changes to the entire firing setup. Instead of using a traditional cap, rotor and plug wire type of distributer setup, Jeeps now have coil pack firing. This lead to the adoption of a new distributer, hence the faulty part, I am sure.

So, if yer driving yer newer TJ down the road and your O. P. gauge plummets and your vehicle starts to shudder..........SHUT HER DOWN, you just lost your oil pump.





Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:26:15 AM EDT
So you're gonna dump a $30, 000 Jeep because a roll pin broke?

Can I have your AR when you break the firing pin retainer?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:29:06 AM EDT
If it's under warranty, I would press for a new engine, and if it's just a couple of weeks old, a new vehicle.

Zero oil pressure toasts the entire engine, and the head assembly ain't the most expensive part to replace.

That Jeep will fail you on a hot day in the desert when it's the most inconvenient and there's a long walk for help.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:32:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 4:36:30 AM EDT by desertmoon]

Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
So you're gonna dump a $30, 000 Jeep because a roll pin broke?

Can I have your AR when you break the firing pin retainer?



Take your car, dump all the oil. Drive it for five or ten minutes. You still want it?

ETA: read the original post again....did you realize I was FORCED to drive the vehicle with ZERO oil pressure????

Now, go pull the spark plugs from you vehicle, put a teaspoon of sand in each hole. Put th plugs back in and start her up. Drive around the block....still want yer car????
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:37:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
So you're gonna dump a $30, 000 Jeep because a roll pin broke?

Can I have your AR when you break the firing pin retainer?



Take your car, dump all the oil. Drive it for five or ten minutes. You still want it?

ETA: read the original post again....did you realize I was FORCED to drive the vehicle with ZERO oil pressure????

Now, go pull the spark plugs from you vehicle, put a teaspoon of sand in each hole.
Drive around the block....still want yer car????



I wouldn't.

Sorry about your Jeep. Do you have any idea what you'll replace it with?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:38:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:
If it's under warranty, I would press for a new engine, and if it's just a couple of weeks old, a new vehicle.

Zero oil pressure toasts the entire engine, and the head assembly ain't the most expensive part to replace.

That Jeep will fail you on a hot day in the desert when it's the most inconvenient and there's a long walk for help.



Exactly why I am headed to the dealer to get a new one. The mechanics at my dealer have always done great work for me, I know they'll let me know if anything else needs work but to me, this Jeep has bad mojo now.

and trust me, i am gonna be on the phone to Chrysler this morning.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:41:36 AM EDT
Just put some Norrels on it and quit crying!

I'll give you $7,500 for it!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:00:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
Just put some Norrels on it and quit crying!

I'll give you $7,500 for it!



You could have at least offered me 87 hundred!!!!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:29:46 AM EDT
Push for a new Jeep or a buyback.

If you get the buyback, head over to the 'Yota dealer and get you a new Taco or FJ cruiser.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:34:40 AM EDT
Got a lemon law? Some of those have clauses for total work to be performed in the first month as the qualifier. Or at least the news reports it that way for some states....

I'd check that too...

You might have more leverage with a/the law behind you....
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:42:26 AM EDT
Bummer about the Jeep. I would not give the rig up, but I would want a new engine. After an event like that it won't be long till the rods start knocking.

I also think that there had to be something else wrong that caused the pin to shear, and that something is still going to be in there unless things get completely rebuilt.

Glad you did not wreck, sounds like that was a serious possibility.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:47:02 AM EDT
Yeah, that should be a new Engine.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:50:33 AM EDT
If the engine was running under a load more than 2 minutes max I would DEMAND a new motor. If the JEEP rep not the dealer refuses I would make them pull a rod and main bearing and SHOW YOU there is no wear not some wear NO wear.

I know you said it wouldnt restart but would the engine even turn over after it cut off ?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:49:14 PM EDT
In 2003/2004 some bad roll pins were distributed throughout the aircraft industry parts supply.

Part number is NASM16562, material is reported to be "cres", which could be any of several stainless steel alloys and strength levels (heat treat or work hardened strength depending on the alloy).

These parts may have been failing due to stress corrosion, but there are also opinions that they were failing on installation.

I wonder what happened to the rejected stock ....
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:00:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 2:01:53 PM EDT by arfreak74]
that sucks donkey.



btw, they went distributorless ignition back in 2001 or 2002 if I remember correctly.



and yeah, you should pursue getting a whole new motor. no way those rod and main bearings didn't get some burn.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:36:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:
In 2003/2004 some bad roll pins were distributed throughout the aircraft industry parts supply.

Part number is NASM16562, material is reported to be "cres", which could be any of several stainless steel alloys and strength levels (heat treat or work hardened strength depending on the alloy).

These parts may have been failing due to stress corrosion, but there are also opinions that they were failing on installation.

I wonder what happened to the rejected stock ....



I was thinking he same thing about it beening a possible trend. That would be a crappy recall in terms of image more than money. Strange part to fail all by itself, I wonder if it was a shear pin not a roll pin?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:14:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By u-baddog:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
In 2003/2004 some bad roll pins were distributed throughout the aircraft industry parts supply.

Part number is NASM16562, material is reported to be "cres", which could be any of several stainless steel alloys and strength levels (heat treat or work hardened strength depending on the alloy).

These parts may have been failing due to stress corrosion, but there are also opinions that they were failing on installation.

I wonder what happened to the rejected stock ....



I was thinking he same thing about it beening a possible trend. That would be a crappy recall in terms of image more than money. Strange part to fail all by itself, I wonder if it was a shear pin not a roll pin?



I am sitting at work with a friend of mine in the auto industry...she had the same look as I did when she read this.

I have contaceted Chrysler and i will be going through some type of arbitration. The dealer is being really cool with me and offered me a GREAT deal on a 2006 but it was black....lemme tell you guys black vehicles in Arizona are not the best idea. I'll be ordering another silver one instead.

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I'll be posting more as follows but I have to get back to work.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:04:26 AM EDT
Holy shit.

Hope everything works out. I'd get a new motor for it, and not let the truck go just yet.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:15:08 AM EDT
... Dude, not sure you posted this before we "spoke", but I would certainly bid the dealer/factory for a new crate motor - get firm and in their face about this. And no, I don't blame you if you want a new Jeep either, just make sure Chrysler / Jeep makes good on every ounce of their warranty.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:31:56 AM EDT
Damn I was just looking at getiing a Rubicon Unlimited for my next car too.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:39:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By u-baddog:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
In 2003/2004 some bad roll pins were distributed throughout the aircraft industry parts supply.

Part number is NASM16562, material is reported to be "cres", which could be any of several stainless steel alloys and strength levels (heat treat or work hardened strength depending on the alloy).

These parts may have been failing due to stress corrosion, but there are also opinions that they were failing on installation.

I wonder what happened to the rejected stock ....



I was thinking he same thing about it beening a possible trend. That would be a crappy recall in terms of image more than money. Strange part to fail all by itself, I wonder if it was a shear pin not a roll pin?



I am sitting at work with a friend of mine in the auto industry...she had the same look as I did when she read this.

I have contaceted Chrysler and i will be going through some type of arbitration. The dealer is being really cool with me and offered me a GREAT deal on a 2006 but it was black....lemme tell you guys black vehicles in Arizona are not the best idea. I'll be ordering another silver one instead.

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I'll be posting more as follows but I have to get back to work.



I couldn't find copies of the spec sheets for this part to determine precisely which alloy is specified - I can look around again, but you might just try a "Google" to see what turns up.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:16:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ANGST:
Damn I was just looking at getiing a Rubicon Unlimited for my next car too.



Note that he's buying a new one.

It's a fluke, and probably wouldn't have been such a big problem had he been able to shut it down immediately.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:30:02 AM EDT
I jope Chrysler/Jeep makes this right for you!

Sean
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:16:34 AM EDT
If you need to organize a PROTEST and/or CANDLE LIGHT vigil, let me know! I'll help out!
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:22:37 AM EDT
I wouldn't be affraid to get another one.Considering you're the only person I've ever heard of that had this happen means that you were unlucky enough to be the one in a million that this would happen to.

The likelyhood of it happening again is like getting struck by lightening twice.

I've been considering getting a Wrangler too, this story hasn't changed my mind about it, it was a fluke.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:27:55 AM EDT
You should have just hammered the throttle and seized it up solid, that way you would be guaranteed to get a new motor.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:32:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:35:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:
I wouldn't be affraid to get another one.Considering you're the only person I've ever heard of that had this happen means that you were unlucky enough to be the one in a million that this would happen to.

The likelyhood of it happening again is like getting struck by lightening twice.

I've been considering getting a Wrangler too, this story hasn't changed my mind about it, it was a fluke.



Good point. I am still going to persue and hunt for more info on this but I am just in the beginning stages of arbitration. I spoke to a Chrysler CS rep yesterday ( very nice lady ) and I have a ref number and an initial "complaint" file and I am going to get my Lemon Law book out of my Jeep tomorrow and start from there. This morning I'll be working on an initial letter to Chrysler on this issue.

This incident doesn't stop me from being a Mopar man at all, but it is a legit concern that this be looked into and that is what I inted to do.

My service rep at the dealer said he has had one other Jeep come in with this issue. I am curious to see if the distributors were from the same lot. I don't know if I'll be able to find out or not.

Also, my sales rep has already quoted me a GREAT deal to get out from under this Wrangler and get into a new one. Fortunately I make Jeep parts ( NOT distributors[using the term "distributor" loosley] , though ) and I get an awesome discount. I mean awesome.

Will advise further as I learn more...thanks for the support and the comedy, guys. I appreciate it.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:37:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 6:38:12 AM EDT by desertmoon]

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
You should have just hammered the throttle and seized it up solid, that way you would be guaranteed to get a new motor.



If I had known that was the issue I would have done EXACTLY that. Sadly, I thought it was some crazy failure of the oil pressure sending unit coupled with another electrical problem because my engine temp never changed.

I informed a good buddy of mine who has the same Jeep as I do and that is his plan.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 7:29:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

Originally Posted By markm:
Just put some Norrels on it and quit crying!

I'll give you $7,500 for it!



I didn't know Ed Sr. had unbanned you.



You can't keep a GOOD MAN down, Cuz!
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 7:40:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
You should have just hammered the throttle and seized it up solid, that way you would be guaranteed to get a new motor.



If I had known that was the issue I would have done EXACTLY that. Sadly, I thought it was some crazy failure of the oil pressure sending unit coupled with another electrical problem because my engine temp never changed.

I informed a good buddy of mine who has the same Jeep as I do and that is his plan.



If there was nothing wrong with the radiator why would you assume that the engine temp. would rise? The coolant would still be doing its job even though the internal friction was rising, it would take quite a while for that to translate into a change in the temp gage.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:56:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
You should have just hammered the throttle and seized it up solid, that way you would be guaranteed to get a new motor.



If I had known that was the issue I would have done EXACTLY that. Sadly, I thought it was some crazy failure of the oil pressure sending unit coupled with another electrical problem because my engine temp never changed.

I informed a good buddy of mine who has the same Jeep as I do and that is his plan.



If there was nothing wrong with the radiator why would you assume that the engine temp. would rise? The coolant would still be doing its job even though the internal friction was rising, it would take quite a while for that to translate into a change in the temp gage.



jeeps run hot so I think it would become evident a little more quickly.....however I did have fresh oil and I did only drive about two miles....so there wasn't really any time for heat to build up....
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:31:07 AM EDT
Did they give you a loaner for the term of the repair?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:04:59 PM EDT
I like the idea of Jeep wranglers. I just dont like the quality control and some design characteristics of Jeep in general
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:50:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By u-baddog:
Did they give you a loaner for the term of the repair?



Dodge Magnum...it was sweet.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:30:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
I like the idea of Jeep wranglers. I just dont like the quality control and some design characteristics of Jeep in general



actually Jeep has pretty good qc and though I hate Jeep interiors of the past few years they still turn out a great vehicle....

my issue strictly deals with the new distributorless ignition system, specifically the oil pump which is connect to the new system...

normally the Jeep straight six is known as one of the tougher motors around but nothing can save it from a faulty oil pump unit....

my recent, brief research hasn't turned up a prevalance of what happened to me being an issue with jeep in general either ( so far, anyhow )...as one poster said, this could be a "one off" issue....
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:48:12 PM EDT
for want of a nail...
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:15:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
So you're gonna dump a $30, 000 Jeep because a roll pin broke?

Can I have your AR when you break the firing pin retainer?



Take your car, dump all the oil. Drive it for five or ten minutes. You still want it?

ETA: read the original post again....did you realize I was FORCED to drive the vehicle with ZERO oil pressure????

Now, go pull the spark plugs from you vehicle, put a teaspoon of sand in each hole. Put th plugs back in and start her up. Drive around the block....still want yer car????



I agree with you
When my mom got her Buick Roadmaster the dealer had to get one from PA to match what she wanted. They drove it up, presumably at full highway speed not abiding by the break in rules. It messed something up in the engine. Clanking noise. I think it was the valve covers or something. My dad insisted they put a whole new engine in it.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:20:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
for want of a nail...



the kingdom was lost....

You have no idea how many times I have said that recently......

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:38:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:
If it's under warranty, I would press for a new engine, and if it's just a couple of weeks old, a new vehicle.

Zero oil pressure toasts the entire engine, and the head assembly ain't the most expensive part to replace.

That Jeep will fail you on a hot day in the desert when it's the most inconvenient and there's a long walk for help.



AreoE covered this! Push for a new engine & accept no less! No oil pressure means no oil to the bearings too!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 11:33:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VLODPG:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
If it's under warranty, I would press for a new engine, and if it's just a couple of weeks old, a new vehicle.

Zero oil pressure toasts the entire engine, and the head assembly ain't the most expensive part to replace.

That Jeep will fail you on a hot day in the desert when it's the most inconvenient and there's a long walk for help.



AreoE covered this! Push for a new engine & accept no less! No oil pressure means no oil to the bearings too!

DCX needs to give you a new engine! Mazda did this with the 99-01 Miatas,they had a wrong/too large thrust bearings,1.8's would literally machine themselves to ruin.Mazda even did this for Miatas out of warrenty,as it was a known defect.

BTW,Jeep radios also have a defect,radio will stop working after awhile,problem is in the on-off/volume button.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:14:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By u-baddog:
Did they give you a loaner for the term of the repair?



Dodge Magnum...it was sweet.



was ?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:52:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By u-baddog:

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By u-baddog:
Did they give you a loaner for the term of the repair?



Dodge Magnum...it was sweet.



was ?



got the Jeep back. I am writing chyrsler and damnding a discount on my next jeep equivalent to what I put in to this one.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:33:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 5:34:12 AM EDT by desertmoon]
Well, as of this morning at 6:30 a.m. I was leaving the plant and walking up to my Jeep when I noticed a small fresh puddle of oil under my Jeep. So I crawl under it and guess what? Fresh oil is dripping off the flywheel cover plate onto the ground....right below where the rear main seal is located.

Looks like someone will be getting another call and ANOTHER letter.

yes, I am already laywering up
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