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Link Posted: 2/19/2012 6:00:52 AM EDT
[#1]
honda pilot with vtm-4.



about 20-21 hwy, 16 in the city.



265 hp dohc v6.


 
Link Posted: 2/19/2012 8:17:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Ideally in RAV4 range, 27mpg or so with the 4 cylinder.


I think you're trying to defy the laws of physics.   RAV4s get better mileage than "real 4WD" SUVs precisely because they are not "real 4WD" SUVs.

Some of the real 4WD suvs can get you into the low to mid 20's in highway MPG, but that's going to drop a LOT in the city... by 30-50%.

If it's mostly a road vehicle... do you really need real 4WD?  My wife's Element, with on-demand 4WD and GOOD tires has truly impressed me in snow, ice, and mud, and I've taken it places where a lot of folks wouldn't think such a vehicle would go.  In the high Rockies in passes where they won't let  you drive without chains or 4WD, I've never had a problem.  My daily driver is real 4WD, but honestly, for street and highway use (including winter), I've never seen a situation where it would have made a difference over her on-demand setup.

Maybe I am worrying it to much but I am looking at year round driving from Iowa to northern North Dakota every few weeks. I plan to keep a kit(arctic sleeping bag, food/water, shovel, lantern etc) in the vehicle in case I need to pull over due to bad weather and just live it out in the vehicle if needed for a day or two. I just figured it would be smarter to have a more capable vehicle, but I think your right, the chance of that happening is a lot less than what I will need which will be a good run about town/commuting vehicle.




Still, it would be damn nice if the EPA would lift off a little and allow small diesels in American vehicles.


 


They do actually, our requirements are pretty much the same as Europe now. (that wasn't always the case)

I think someone has already suggested looking at Suburu's offerings.  They aren't "real" 4wd, but I think one of the wagons might be better to sleep in if necessary.
Link Posted: 2/19/2012 9:14:38 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I think someone has already suggested looking at Suburu's offerings.  They aren't "real" 4wd, but I think one of the wagons might be better to sleep in if necessary.


But they are "real" AWD, as opposed to what I know of many of the other "AWD" offerings starting to show up from many other manufacturers.

In a Subaru under normal operating conditions, both front and rear are always receiving some power. Standard transmission Subarus are absolutely full-time AWD, and use a viscous coupling for a center diff. The automatics use a computer-controlled multi-plate clutch pack to send power to the rear but it is always partially engaged - IIRC, you always have at least something like 10%-15% engagement on current models. (There is actually a DIY mod you can do on the four-speed autos to fully engage the clutch pack while fooling the computer into thinking it's still in control, allowing you to get a sort of poor-man's diff-lock.)

My understanding of many of the newer "AWD" vehicles entering the market is that they also use computer-controlled clutch packs like the automatic Subarus, but they start with no engagement and are FWD until the computer decides to shift power back. (Whereas the Subaru always has something going back, sending more back as needed.)
Link Posted: 2/19/2012 10:10:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Ideally in RAV4 range, 27mpg or so with the 4 cylinder.


I think you're trying to defy the laws of physics.   RAV4s get better mileage than "real 4WD" SUVs precisely because they are not "real 4WD" SUVs.

Some of the real 4WD suvs can get you into the low to mid 20's in highway MPG, but that's going to drop a LOT in the city... by 30-50%.

If it's mostly a road vehicle... do you really need real 4WD?  My wife's Element, with on-demand 4WD and GOOD tires has truly impressed me in snow, ice, and mud, and I've taken it places where a lot of folks wouldn't think such a vehicle would go.  In the high Rockies in passes where they won't let  you drive without chains or 4WD, I've never had a problem.  My daily driver is real 4WD, but honestly, for street and highway use (including winter), I've never seen a situation where it would have made a difference over her on-demand setup.

Maybe I am worrying it to much but I am looking at year round driving from Iowa to northern North Dakota every few weeks. I plan to keep a kit(arctic sleeping bag, food/water, shovel, lantern etc) in the vehicle in case I need to pull over due to bad weather and just live it out in the vehicle if needed for a day or two. I just figured it would be smarter to have a more capable vehicle, but I think your right, the chance of that happening is a lot less than what I will need which will be a good run about town/commuting vehicle.




Still, it would be damn nice if the EPA would lift off a little and allow small diesels in American vehicles.


 


They do actually, our requirements are pretty much the same as Europe now. (that wasn't always the case)

I think someone has already suggested looking at Suburu's offerings.  They aren't "real" 4wd, but I think one of the wagons might be better to sleep in if necessary.


Mazda cx-5 should get a diesel sometime in 2013.
Link Posted: 2/19/2012 11:07:45 AM EDT
[#5]
You don't want "real four wheel drive" for commuting anyway.  Real four wheel drive means that the center differential is locked and the front and rear axles must turn at exactly the same speed at all times which means one end or the other must lose traction when going around a corner.  This means either serious understeer or oversteer.  This isn't a problem when crawling around Jeep trails, but it's not something you want on icy streets and highways.  I would much prefer an all wheel drive system for your pourposes, in fact for driving on snowy and icy highways I prefer frontwheel drive and good studded snow tires.
Link Posted: 2/20/2012 5:49:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
...but his Pilot drove out no problem. Its got pretty large tires which help.


Having the right tires should really be priority #1 for driving in inclement weather.

AWD isn't going to help too much if your tires can't find and maintain traction in the first place.


Listen to this man, he is wise.

Shitty tires on a Land Cruiser will get you nowhere when there's 18" of snow on the ground.  A 2WD Ranger with snow tires and a LSD will get farther.  


For those dissing on the Tracker, didn't those have a low range - capable transfer case?  I seem to recall they were pretty good off road, much better than modern cute utes in that regard.
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