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Posted: 1/29/2006 8:01:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 4:46:38 PM EDT by Observer]
Okay I'm helping a friend assemble a new computer.
ASUS P5GPL-X/ retail boxed Intel P4 3.2 GHz with Intel heatsink (LGA775 style processor).

Had a few strange issues during assembly but here's the latest problem I can't get around...

The computer won't boot past the bios before shutting down. It just totally turns itself off.

I got into the bios and checked the cpu core temperature and its get to 100C and apparently the thermal protection circuit kicks in and shuts the machine down. This happens in about 10-15 seconds as the cpu rapidly heats up.

The heatsink and fan are definitely working on startup and I used arcticsilver on the cpu/fan interface when assembling it. I don't like the 'push-pin' style heatsink connection but this is the Intel retail fan that came with the cpu.

Any ideas on why it's not cooling the cpu?
Could it be something else (like power supply?)

I really need some help with this.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:19:34 PM EDT
Could be that the motherboard or processor is damaged, and isn't managing the heat well. Even if they are new, it could still be damaged.

If you can, see if you can flip the fan around so the airflow goes the other direction, see if that help.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:52:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:54:04 PM EDT by KS_Physicist]
I'm making no assumptions about what you might have already checked.

I'd first check the tension holding the sink to the core.

Then I'd remove the sink (I know, it's a risk...) and check to see if there was obviously good contact between the core and the metal of the heat sink.

I'd check to make sure there wasn't a protective layer on the heat sink surface that was accidentally left on at installation.

(ETA: I'd also confirm that the heat sink was installed so that it wasn't interfered with by any part of the processor socket, onboard components or case components.)

I'd check to make sure there was no foreign matter or other material on the compression standoffs on the processor die (I assume PIV processors use some sort of compression standoff similar to AMD chips).

I'd check to make sure the processor voltage is not artificially high. (I think most/all modern motherboards automatically set processor voltage, but I'd look it up anyway.)

On the offhand chance that the heat sink includes a peltier junction device, I'd check to make sure it is not installed or wired backwards. (No idea if these are even used any more...)

Jim
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:07:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 1:10:02 PM EDT by cruze5]
make sure the plug for the HS fan is plugged into the plug for the cpu and not one for the system fans. yes it does matter

edit :

make sure they aren't any cpu fan controls enabled for the cpu fan. i always want my fans spinning 100% for the processor. check the fan speed most intel chips run at 2500rpm and above. anything less, turn the system off imediatly and contact intel for a replacement fan and chip
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:46:25 PM EDT
Okay I think I found out what the problem is but I don't know what to do about it (other than contacting intel and seeing what they say).

I took the heatsink back off the cpu and found that the bead of thermal paste (arcticsilver) wasn't spread out like it should be. So for whatever reason the heatsink isn't making proper contact with the top of the cpu and there's an air gap preventing heat transfer. (The gap must be about 1-3 mm)

I'm not 100% up on brand new cpu's but 'back in the day' the heatsink when it locked-down would 'smoosh' out the thermal paste and make a good contact.

Isn't that what should be happening here as well?

Thanks guys!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:55:43 PM EDT
do you have caps(capacitors) or something in the way of the heatsink? i've only heard this problem on AMD boards. but you never know.


sorry for the small pic this is the only one i could find. does it look like this


Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:31:55 AM EDT
Hey cruze,
yes it looks basically just like that fan (with the crappy push-pin connectors to clip into the mobo).

There's plenty of clearance and it appears to lock down properly. Tonight I'm going to take the board back out and make sure it's securing properly on teh backside.

Why couldn't they have just stuck with spring clips!?!?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:02:53 PM EDT
make sure you check the bios to see how fast the cpu fan is spinning
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:42:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Observer:
Okay I think I found out what the problem is but I don't know what to do about it (other than contacting intel and seeing what they say).

I took the heatsink back off the cpu and found that the bead of thermal paste (arcticsilver) wasn't spread out like it should be. So for whatever reason the heatsink isn't making proper contact with the top of the cpu and there's an air gap preventing heat transfer. (The gap must be about 1-3 mm)

I'm not 100% up on brand new cpu's but 'back in the day' the heatsink when it locked-down would 'smoosh' out the thermal paste and make a good contact.

Isn't that what should be happening here as well?

Thanks guys!



Yes, the thermal paste should "smoosh" down. Is there no spring on this baby?

I just took a look at the ASUS webpage on that motherboard, and there isn't any obvious place where the heatsink would catch, unless it was installed backwards or at 90 degrees.

When I installed my AMD Duron with an Ultra heatsink, the spring clip of the heatsink actually pressed against the power supply. I shimmed the power supply and trimmed off the tab on the spring clip so that it would have no possibility of interferance.

Jim
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:47:18 PM EDT
Okay I got some new thermal pads and got the system up and running. It's still running a little hot for my tastes (78-80C) but it's not shutting down anymore so I got XP installed successfully.

KSPhysicist- yeah unfortunately this is the "NEW & IMPROVED!!!*" intel heatsink design. No springs, just the four plastic push-pins that go through holes in the mobo.

Since there is no spring pressure to take up the slack the tolerances need to be spot-on.....but they're not. The slightly thicker thermal pad apparently is the main contact but definitely not my cup of tea. I want metal-to-metal with the paste just filling in the gaps.

At this point I'm trying to decide whether to take it back off and try to get a better fit or just leave well-enough alone since it's working okay.

For your guys reference I'd avoid the LGA775 package unless you have a better heatsink/fan mounting method than the factory intel version.

Thanks for the help!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:20:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:27:00 AM EDT
i did a search for socket 775 and normal temp and came up with this page link looks like it should be around 62+
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 8:32:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By madman_kirk:
I don't know at what temps intels chips run, but if i saw 78-80c on my AMD chips. i'ld crap my pants. i'm pulling 40c under full load. mmk



Yea me to.

My Athlon 64 3500+ runs between 23-40 C unless I put it on a prolonged very heavy load and then it never gets above 45 C.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 8:42:29 AM EDT
I would definitely go with something like this


Big Ass Heatsink


or this

More Big Ass Heatsinks....
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:48:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By toast:
I would definitely go with something like this


Big Ass Heatsink


or this

More Big Ass Heatsinks....



Man, those ARE some big-assed heat sinks.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:12:29 PM EDT
from experience i can tell you that intel heatsink/fans suck. i use thermaltake products and always get good results, got my cpu down around 40-45 depending on house temp. its not uncomon for the lga775 (Prescott) chips to run at higher temps so dont be too alarmed at the 60-70+ degrees celsius. the arctic silver takes awhile to fully activate but when it does it makes a small but noticeable difference. resist the urge to slather it on there it only takes a small amount and too much material will work against you. IIRC though use of any HSF or thermal interface material other than intels will void the warranty so be careful. good case ventilation is also very important. make sure you have good fans moving air in and out of the case. there are a lot of cases on the market for these newer hotter running CPUs. do a search for a program called SPEEDFAN. great for monitioring voltages temps fan speeds etc. one last note be careful of the massive heatsinks out there, when the board heats up (40c +) over a period of time they may warp or even break the board. definately be careful moving it around. theres are plenty of options out there so look around hope it all works out for you i know it was a PITA when i started the build for mine ;)
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:11:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 7:12:09 PM EDT by NAM]

Originally Posted By cruze5:
i did a search for socket 775 and normal temp and.... looks like it should be around 62+




Whew!

Was having head problems with the stock fan (pentium 820D). system would lock up in BF2. Went and got a Thermaltake with heat pipes. Temp is abotu 57C idle, and abotu 75 or so while playing BF2. I was abotu to freak until i read that it's normal.
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