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Posted: 11/28/2005 4:41:05 PM EDT
My wife's fing bros have her convinced that we should switch to the Mac platform. Give me some ammo here. Was going to spend about a grand on a new PC.

Wife does exell spreadsheets, photos, and general internet surfing

I do photos, and online gaming. and of course ARFcom
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 5:23:50 PM EDT
Online gaming - give up the idea of the mac right there. Very few games work for mac OS.

Other than gaming, I would highly reccomend a mac. For a general use PC, they are above and beyond any PC out there, for sure.

I love my powerbook, just as much as my gaming PC.


Mac OSX > any other Operating System.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 5:56:53 PM EDT
os X is linux, and macs are going to the same processors as the pc.

Don't waste your time or money, for what your wife does, get her a dell......
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 6:40:32 PM EDT
I read that OSX is based on Unix, but never seen Linux mentioned. Being that it's based on Unix, Macs are very secure and stable, they won't crash on you like a PC.

Current Mac's are on PowerPC processors, which are good processors. Future Macs will be on Intel CPUs, and Intel is not known for it's great CPUs because they aren't that great.

If you want a Mac, buy soon. Wait too long and you'll probably end up with OSX86 on an Intel CPU. 2 GHz PowerPC is probably better than a 3 GHz Pentium 4, so you want it on PowerPC.

Other than for gaming, you want a Mac and don't know it. For gaming you're gonna want a Windows machine, that's where all the games are.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 7:03:24 PM EDT
Mac OSX is based on Unix.

Even running on Intel hardware, Mac OSX is far superior to anything on the PC. <----that is a period there.

Dont have to worry about spyware, viruses, or crashes. Pretty much everything works like a dream. Comes with Safari, the best web browser there is.

When the intel-based macs come out, they are only going to get cheaper. Even if you end up getting a mac, and if it has the g5 powerPC processor, it will still be about as good of a processor as you can get. Clock for clock the PowerPC chips will stomp the shit out of even the fastest Athlon64 without even trying.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 7:00:52 AM EDT
Run Linux then use a virtual PC (VMWare) and install Mac OSX, you can say you bought a Mac and you'll wife will never have to know.

I absolutly hate Mac!!!

They traditionaly do offer better graphics, but this is no longer the case. PCs are better then Macs.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 7:13:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedave1164:
os X is linux, and macs are going to the same processors as the pc.

Don't waste your time or money, for what your wife does, get her a dell......



Actually, OS X is Mach + BSD.

Other than gaming, OS X is hard to beat. Get the Mac.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 7:20:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hectic:
Run Linux then use a virtual PC (VMWare) and install Mac OSX, you can say you bought a Mac and you'll wife will never have to know.



OS/X runs on Intel?

VMWare supports OS/X?

Do tell!
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:18:48 AM EDT
*cough*

http://www.uneasysilence.com/os-x-proven-hacked-and-running-on-an-ordinary-pc/
http://www.xplodenet.com/blog/?page_id=11
http://osx86.theplaceforitall.com/howto/
http://www.aspnetresources.com/blog/macosx_in_winxp.aspx
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:49:38 AM EDT
Sorry, I only deliver supported configurations.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 10:31:11 AM EDT
Apparently some of Apple's upcoming machines will be based on an Intel chip. So if you wait a bit OS X on an x86 platform will be supported.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 4:53:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2005 4:53:42 PM EDT by adair_usmc]

Originally Posted By kissfan:

Originally Posted By Hectic:
Run Linux then use a virtual PC (VMWare) and install Mac OSX, you can say you bought a Mac and you'll wife will never have to know.



OS/X runs on Intel?

VMWare supports OS/X?

Do tell!



Or just run OSX natively on the hard drive without any VMWare, thats what I do

How to do it has allready been posted.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 5:13:29 PM EDT
I have never used a Mac so I'm a little stubborn to the idea of having to re-learn a new computer. I'm sure it's not all that different than a Windows PC though. For digital graphic and web design I'm always told Macs are way better than PC's.

I'm not too jazzed about having to re-buy all of the software I use right now either.

I've read around here that Mac is pretty much not a target for 98% of the viruses out there.

If someone was throwing one in my lap I'd certainly grab it.

Link Posted: 11/29/2005 5:35:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedave1164:
os X is linux, and macs are going to the same processors as the pc.

Don't waste your time or money, for what your wife does, get her a dell......



The whole point of the Mac (well, a good part) is that the processor doesn't matter.

Other than online gaming, in his case it is a moot point, get the Mac and Apple will support it and he'll be good for another 5 years.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 5:52:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I have never used a Mac so I'm a little stubborn to the idea of having to re-learn a new computer. I'm sure it's not all that different than a Windows PC though. For digital graphic and web design I'm always told Macs are way better than PC's.

I'm not too jazzed about having to re-buy all of the software I use right now either.

I've read around here that Mac is pretty much not a target for 98% of the viruses out there.

If someone was throwing one in my lap I'd certainly grab it.




I think almost 100% of viruses are for Windows computers. And you probably won't have to relearn a whole lot, and I read that Apple even had a two-button mouse somewhere.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 6:23:19 PM EDT
* Gaming - +1 on the show stopper, you'll need Windows
* Web, email, Excel - welp, none of these are difficult and you can do either just as well and easy in either Mac or Windows.
* Price - Windows side...initial setup, any upgrades, software, etc. Mac = more money coming and going.
* Spyware/viruses/etc. - Mac wins, not because of a superior design (though it is quite nice), but it's security by anonymity. With a single-digit market share, it's just not worth the bother for the baddens when they get better returns with Windows/AOL users
* Assistance - this is where the Windows marketshare pays off, if there's an issue, answers are more abundant. Yes, there's an active Mac community...very active, but that computer-guy-brother-in-law is likely to have a Windows machine 19 out of 20 times.
* Later compatibility - so some day you decide "I'd like to do _____." Whether your broker says they have a trading platform, or there's some Cub Scout Pinewood Derby software, or whatever...Windows easily wins due to marketshare. If the Mac will do it, the price thing comes back to bite you again.
* Upgradability - this wasn't in your list (though gaming could fit here). Sure the full-tower Macs can be expanded (see money above), but over and over entire product lines get retired for the next model.

The Mac is nice, particularly with OS X. But for web, email, Excel, that means you'll be paying an extra $1000 to wear a "Think Different" t-shirt.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 6:31:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zatu:

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I have never used a Mac so I'm a little stubborn to the idea of having to re-learn a new computer. I'm sure it's not all that different than a Windows PC though. For digital graphic and web design I'm always told Macs are way better than PC's.

I'm not too jazzed about having to re-buy all of the software I use right now either.

I've read around here that Mac is pretty much not a target for 98% of the viruses out there.

If someone was throwing one in my lap I'd certainly grab it.




I think almost 100% of viruses are for Windows computers. And you probably won't have to relearn a whole lot, and I read that Apple even had a two-button mouse somewhere.



The Mac fanatics...er...users I know all tossed their Apple mice and have been using two-button mice for a while now.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 6:45:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By highdraglowspeed:
My wife's fing bros have her convinced that we should switch to the Mac platform. Give me some ammo here. Was going to spend about a grand on a new PC.

Wife does exell spreadsheets, photos, and general internet surfing

I do photos, and online gaming. and of course ARFcom




I love the Mac, however, PC's work better with thrid party software, but thats slowly changing...but still for now PC's are better suited for that.

Granted the Mac is clearly better looking more inspiriring and carries the passion akin to a BMW.

I do NOT like the fact that Al Gore is on their board of trustees however.....
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 6:52:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2005 6:57:04 PM EDT by gks452]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I have never used a Mac so I'm a little stubborn to the idea of having to re-learn a new computer. Good reason not to switch.

I'm sure it's not all that different than a Windows PC though.
That's mostly true. But they are different enough that it takes getting used to. Little things, like if you have a file selected and hit the enter key. On Windows it opens the file while a Mac thinks you want to rename the file. It really takes a while to get used to stuff like this. It's like someone rearraged your kitchen drawers (while drunk). Not only has every moved, but you can't figure out why they moved where they did.

For digital graphic and web design I'm always told Macs are way better than PC's.
Thats because 'creative people' started using Macs when they were better and either never switched or haven't gotten over the little differences I mentioned before.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with one of the web editors where I used to work. She asked me how to change the background on her screen. I said "first you right click on the the background". She said "Oh, I never right click on anything. I don't like it." She was smart, but after years believing only one mouse button was needed she wasn't willing to change her behaviour.


I'm not too jazzed about having to re-buy all of the software I use right now either.
Another good reason not to switch.

I've read around here that Mac is pretty much not a target for 98% of the viruses out there.
Very true and because of the more secure nature of Unix it will resist them better than Windows does. However security software is cheaper than buying a Mac and will take less time to learn.


If someone was throwing one in my lap I'd certainly grab it.
Me too.



You've left out the most important part. Are you having problems with your current PC? If not then where is the need to change anything?
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 7:13:34 PM EDT
ok I got a fix, get her an iPod, its made by apple, and will work great with a PC, but be sure to use iTunes, hey its the industry standard for music playing anyways, that should be a good compromise?
Link Posted: 12/2/2005 2:31:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2005 2:33:11 PM EDT by MormonComputerZ]
My opinion.

PC - Great all around for doing whatever you want, mostly.

MAC - Great for Video Editing, Rendering, Video Special Effects.

The day will come when I will be running both. I currently run a PC but when I'm ready to move up a notch in my video editing and rendering, I'm going to have a MAC sitting right next to my PC. I'm no longer a hardliner to PC only, but BOTH!!! I don't like those ppl who say, "Windows sucks, go MAC!!!" That tells me that they're just in reality "computer dumb". I will primarily use my MAC when I get one for all of my Video Work and nothing more. Everything else I will do on my PC.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 11:12:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 5:23:44 PM EDT by highdraglowspeed]

Originally Posted By Cold:

I do NOT like the fact that Al Gore is on their board of trustees however.....





That's reason to not buy MAC. The damn porn has been running rampant around here since Al Gore invented the Internet.


ok I got a fix, get her an iPod, its made by apple, and will work great with a PC, but be sure to use iTunes, hey its the industry standard for music playing anyways, that should be a good compromise Done

I think that worked. I'll be getting a Dell from some Geek on the phone.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 4:11:58 AM EDT
I made the switch from PC to Mac a year ago, and would not go back. It takes some time to get adjusted if you havent used a Mac before so old timers would probably have a tough time, however, im a college student so im at a age where this kinda stuff comes easy. That being said, in my personal experience Microsoft Office for Mac runs better on Mac then it does on PC. There are way more features that you can do on the Mac version then on PC. Some people will tell you all this B.S about how stuff in office wont work if you do it on Mac and open it in PC, but it is compatable. I've also noticed that mac communities on the net are very more supportive than PC. If you like to do photo editing or any kind of graphics or media for that matter you could probably find free programs that are usually really expensive such as Adobe CS2. I dont do any gaming on computers so i cant comment on that. But also there are way less virsus written for the Macs than PCs by far. Hope that helps...
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 5:08:25 AM EDT
there's another program that can be run on linux based software that'll allow you to use windows programs. it's called WINE i believe and it works pretty well. you get the windows program without having to worry about it crashing because it's microsoft. a buddy of mine who is a computer programmer has linux on his comp and showed it to me. i thought about changing over to linux, but i don't know a damn thing about it and i'm too lazy to learn right now.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 3:12:05 PM EDT
I just changed to Ubuntu Linux less than a week ago. It's really similar to windows most of the time. The thing I like best so far is the package manager, if you need almost anything you can just install a package that adds it, and there's a program just for finding and adding them. I haven't had to use the terminal much (it's like DOS prompt except not and it's running in a window). Overall I like it better, it just seems like a much more complete package (little things like font antialias, multiple desktops, more and better themes/screensavers/programs, etc.) and if you find anything is missing you can get it really quickly (packages). I have a windows install still, and have no intention of getting rid of it as I do like gaming, but I have the computer ask if I want windows or Linux at startup.

Go to Ubuntu.com for it, if you have a CD burner you can test it and/or install it, if you don't they'll ship you the CDs (and even pay for shipping).
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 6:06:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zatu:
I just changed to Ubuntu Linux less than a week ago. It's really similar to windows most of the time. The thing I like best so far is the package manager, if you need almost anything you can just install a package that adds it, and there's a program just for finding and adding them. I haven't had to use the terminal much (it's like DOS prompt except not and it's running in a window). Overall I like it better, it just seems like a much more complete package (little things like font antialias, multiple desktops, more and better themes/screensavers/programs, etc.) and if you find anything is missing you can get it really quickly (packages). I have a windows install still, and have no intention of getting rid of it as I do like gaming, but I have the computer ask if I want windows or Linux at startup.

Go to Ubuntu.com for it, if you have a CD burner you can test it and/or install it, if you don't they'll ship you the CDs (and even pay for shipping).



Ubuntu ROCKS.

Right now I am running a quad boot with Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Max OSX, and Windows XP. I definately use Ubuntu the most, best linux distro I have tried.

And yeah, it is nice that they will send you as many CDs as you want at no charge. I with they would do that with Kubuntu 5.10, but they arent there with that build yet.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 6:14:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 6:39:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By highdraglowspeed:
My wife's fing bros have her convinced that we should switch to the Mac platform. Give me some ammo here. Was going to spend about a grand on a new PC.

Wife does exell spreadsheets, photos, and general internet surfing

I do photos, and online gaming. and of course ARFcom



sorry, what's a fing bros?
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 7:01:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Mac: A diminishing market share. Will NEVER be mainstream. "Computers for dummies" is how I've always thought of them.

BTW, the core of the latest versions of Windows (Pro, 2K, XP) are all Unix derivatives, too.

The world is going UNIX, after all.

The latest Windows operating systems have increased PC reliability to Mac-like levels but without
the problem of being marginalized or limited in compatibility with MOST of the world.

I would not buy a Mac. Period.

I've played with Sun and SGI workstations, and I'd take either of them before I'd take a Mac.

I stick to PCs.

CJ



Speaking as a long-time sysadmin (mostly Unix/Linux and Windows -- I'm not a Mac apologist), you missed the mark on every single one of your points.

Apple's market share has been steadily increasing over the past 5 years. They are currently "mainstream" -- Compusa carries them, for goodness' sakes!

"Computers for Dummies" is quite a label, given that some of the most creative and smartest people alive use them extensively.

Mac OSX is Unix. Period. Not a "derivative" (and Windows is no more a derivative of Unix than Linux is of DOS -- Please!).

Macs have essentially all the same software packages available that PCs have. The one notable exception is some games, but I don't think that merits your charge of being "marginalized and limited in compatibility with the rest of the world" -- that hasn't been true since the mid 90's. Documents created on a Mac are nearly always perfectly compatible with their PC equivalent program.

Strong permissions make it nearly impossible to write the spyware and viruses for the platform that run rampant on windows machines. That reason alone was enough for me to replace my wife's hand built(by me) computer with a Mac early this year. There is certainly a learning curve -- things are a bit different. But you know what? I have no problem helping someone learn a new program or buying a new software package rather than having to reload or clean spyware and viruses off the machine every few weeks. Macs have a niche -- they're really great for people who just want a computer that works.

Comparing a Sun or an SGI to a Mac is like comparing a Maserati to a Bronco. They're not in the same class -- Sun and SGI workstations are not consumer grade devices people use on their desktops at home. Sure, I'd take a 150k SGI machine over a mini-Mac if I needed the specific processing capabilities the SGI gave me -- otherwise the SGI is severely limited in it's ability to do normal, everyday tasks like web-browsing and email, so why would you want it? I say this as I look over at the SGI workstation by my desk -- it's great, but 98% of the population wouldn't even be able to get it powered up, let alone use it for anything.

So stick to PCs all you want. You're simply closing your mind to a whole segment of the market that's actually pretty interesting, very useful, and is growing like crazy.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 7:39:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By joshki:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Mac: A diminishing market share. Will NEVER be mainstream. "Computers for dummies" is how I've always thought of them.

BTW, the core of the latest versions of Windows (Pro, 2K, XP) are all Unix derivatives, too.

The world is going UNIX, after all.

The latest Windows operating systems have increased PC reliability to Mac-like levels but without
the problem of being marginalized or limited in compatibility with MOST of the world.

I would not buy a Mac. Period.

I've played with Sun and SGI workstations, and I'd take either of them before I'd take a Mac.

I stick to PCs.

CJ



Speaking as a long-time sysadmin (mostly Unix/Linux and Windows -- I'm not a Mac apologist), you missed the mark on every single one of your points.

Apple's market share has been steadily increasing over the past 5 years. They are currently "mainstream" -- Compusa carries them, for goodness' sakes!

"Computers for Dummies" is quite a label, given that some of the most creative and smartest people alive use them extensively.

Mac OSX is Unix. Period. Not a "derivative" (and Windows is no more a derivative of Unix than Linux is of DOS -- Please!).

Macs have essentially all the same software packages available that PCs have. The one notable exception is some games, but I don't think that merits your charge of being "marginalized and limited in compatibility with the rest of the world" -- that hasn't been true since the mid 90's. Documents created on a Mac are nearly always perfectly compatible with their PC equivalent program.

Strong permissions make it nearly impossible to write the spyware and viruses for the platform that run rampant on windows machines. That reason alone was enough for me to replace my wife's hand built(by me) computer with a Mac early this year. There is certainly a learning curve -- things are a bit different. But you know what? I have no problem helping someone learn a new program or buying a new software package rather than having to reload or clean spyware and viruses off the machine every few weeks. Macs have a niche -- they're really great for people who just want a computer that works.

Comparing a Sun or an SGI to a Mac is like comparing a Maserati to a Bronco. They're not in the same class -- Sun and SGI workstations are not consumer grade devices people use on their desktops at home. Sure, I'd take a 150k SGI machine over a mini-Mac if I needed the specific processing capabilities the SGI gave me -- otherwise the SGI is severely limited in it's ability to do normal, everyday tasks like web-browsing and email, so why would you want it? I say this as I look over at the SGI workstation by my desk -- it's great, but 98% of the population wouldn't even be able to get it powered up, let alone use it for anything.

So stick to PCs all you want. You're simply closing your mind to a whole segment of the market that's actually pretty interesting, very useful, and is growing like crazy.



+1
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 5:02:35 AM EDT
Unless your doing some type of graphic design stay away. I hate macs, when ever I have to use one I want to through the damn things. Every one says how user friendly they are, shit I cant even figure out how to turn some of them on.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 9:23:05 AM EDT
XP Pro with a slip stream install of SP2 so that SP2 in installed right from the very beginning is stable
I've been up 15 days 16 hours and the only reason it isn't longer than that is because I shut it down the other weekend when I wasn't home to save a little electricity

few games on the Mac
Macs generally cost more
for what your wife does get one of the Dell deals that comes with an lcd for $500 and maybe bump up the amount of ram it has so that xp doesn't have to use a swap file
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 9:27:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gks452:

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I've read around here that Mac is pretty much not a target for 98% of the viruses out there.
Very true and because of the more secure nature of Unix it will resist them better than Windows does. However security software is cheaper than buying a Mac and will take less time to learn.


If someone was throwing one in my lap I'd certainly grab it.
Me too.



You've left out the most important part. Are you having problems with your current PC? If not then where is the need to change anything?



additionally, although macs are far more secure (largely because they're in the minority, if they get a larger share of the market you can be sure hackers will start finding ways to exploit them) there are security flaws that have been found and there are some mac specific viruses
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 12:02:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2005 12:03:27 PM EDT by NimmerMehr]

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
BTW, the core of the latest versions of Windows (Pro, 2K, XP) are all Unix derivatives, too.
CJ



Nah.. the NT line is based on DEC's VAX.

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 4:36:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
BTW, the core of the latest versions of Windows (Pro, 2K, XP) are all Unix derivatives, too.
CJ



Nah.. the NT line is based on DEC's VAX.




Absolutely. The same guy(David Cutler) that developed VAX VMS developed NT -- he also brought about 20 people from DEC with him to Microsoft when they hired him on.

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles/Print.cfm?ArticleID=4494
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:25:45 PM EDT
Okay Got her the IPOD now I'm getting a Dell. I would like a flat panel but want to be able to play call of duty 2 online with it.

What is the deal with flat panels and games?
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:58:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By highdraglowspeed:
Okay Got her the IPOD now I'm getting a Dell. I would like a flat panel but want to be able to play call of duty 2 online with it.

What is the deal with flat panels and games?



flat panels (LCDs) are now good enough with response time to play games without ghosting. I have a Dell 17in. Haven't played call of duty but I've played numerous other games from a variety of genres including first person shooters with no issues
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:59:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 9:38:28 AM EDT by MormonComputerZ]

Originally Posted By joshki:
"Computers for Dummies" is quite a label, given that some of the most creative and smartest people alive use them extensively.



+1

Shall we say Dreamworks for starters? A few more? 20th Century Fox, Columbia
Pictures, Focus Features, Fox Searchlight, CNN, the FBI... we could go on.

Post 1,000
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:32:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By highdraglowspeed:
Okay Got her the IPOD now I'm getting a Dell. I would like a flat panel but want to be able to play call of duty 2 online with it.

What is the deal with flat panels and games?



I have Call of Duty 2 and a Dell 2405FP LCD screen - IT ROCKS!!

Nick
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