I'll be getting a new system soon and I'll have a chance to upgrade(my current system isn't connected to the internet - long story, my dad uses it for work - so to get files, etc, I've been using a zip drive as a file bridge from school, which absolutely sucks).

Solution is simply getting a laptop so I can pick up the damn thing, go onto campus and use the lan.


I'm currently running Red Hat 7.3 because it's what I happened to have on hand.

I'm looking at something a bit less "refined." I'm in no way looking simply for a windows replacement. Something I can really poke around and get my hands dirty. Towards that end, I'm considering debian or slackware. I've heard interesting things about BSD but have no experience with them.

What am I looking to do? Stuff I need on a daily basis is simply text editing - lots of emacs supported by latex and xpdf. Would be nice if I could get my palm to sync correctly(then I could shut off windows full-time). I'm not running a server anytime soon and I don't do any massive collaborative programming(yet!).

Mostly, I just want to poke around and tinker - to learn the nuts and bolts of the system.

Let's not turn this into a flame war(though this board could use some life!). I'm looking for your opinions and like assholes, everyone has
one. *grin*

Hmm, maybe we can make this a monthly thing - rival the ak vs. ar-15 fights.

I hope I never get into a gunfight over distro's [:D]

Slackware is my favourite Linux distribution now. Installation is a notch or two more troublesome than RedHat's, but is hardly as complicated as Debian. Slackware gives me [by default without tweaking] a nice modern command line interface with colors for different file types, and most of the tools I use.

OpenBSD is my suggestion for a BSD distro for a first timer or for a server.

Well, I am sure you saw my post on Redhat.  But, putting that aside...

OpenBSD is pretty good.  However, if you've got an Intel system and really want to throw yourself to the wolves, install Solaris 8 (Intel Version) and hold on.

I don't know much about slackware, but I've heard good things from others.  

Depends on your level of skill.  If you like to have everything done for you in a nice pretty configuration utilities and don't mind someone else telling you how you should compute stick with redhat.  They have traditionally supported more bleeding edge hardware than anyone else.  

I'm a RHCE and I personally hate it.  Even after taking all their classes and passing their test.  I use slackware.

I find slackware's init scheme to be very straight forward.  I like the way there aren't alot of pretty config utilities that can break and then you have no idea how to do it under the surface.  I like the way that almost all the config files are extensively commented and you seldom have to do anything but read them and uncomment stuff to make stuff work.  It is a really good platform if you want to actually learn stuff.  If Patrick Volkerding isn't a teacher or something, he missed his calling.

There's always debian.  I have a bunch of students that prefer it.  Not really sure why.
The guys in my Unix group that I meet with every wednesday all seem to be falling in love with some new distro in which NOTHING comes pre compiled. I can't remember what it's called though.  Sounds pretty massochistic to me.

You want to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty.

Try [url=http://www.gentoo.org/]Gentoo[/url]

This is a distro that you build/compile as you go. Best if you can hook the unit to broadband during the build, but you can work from ISO's or tarballs building from within your existing RH install.

You will learn... but it does take time.

mmx1, if you want to play around with Debian, the best way I found is to download the so-called mini-cd.  It's at:

[url]www.phy.olemiss.edu/debian-cd/[/url]

It contains most things you need and is only 186 Mbytes.  That's positively tiny compared to RedHat 8.0.  It will even fit on a 3" CD just in case you want something really small to carry around.  If there's something not on the CD, there's enough there to get you up and going so you can install it using apt-get.  The best thing about Debian is that you typically only install it on a machine once.  From then on, you can use apt-get to easily upgrade.

I'm sure it's obvious, but the official site is at [url]www.debian.org[/url].  If you have a specific question about Debian, my e-mail is [email protected]

I recommend Mandrake for beginners to intermediate.  For advanced users, I would say Slackware.  

That's the one I was talking about.

I'd never been to their website.  That distro looks completely badass!  I'm going to install it on something this weekend and try it out.  

I like the way they are completely dedicated to the open source initiative and refuse to cover up bugs.  

screw all that nonsense.

Figure out what you want to run, application wise, then load up FreeBSD and install the Linux emulator.  Then you're running the best of both worlds.

FreeBSD is real Berkley *NIX that has been properly and purposefully GNU-ified.

A Linux distro, DeadHat for example, is a hellish mish-mash of System V (that's five, not 'vee') startup and memory management with many very Berkley-ish tools (GNU stuff) and their own bastardization of X11R6.

The best performing Counter-Strike server I've ever played on was a Dual Gigahert Athlon FreeBSD running the Linux HLServer.

FreeBSD is fun to screw with too.  It lends itself to it much like Slackware does.  Slackware and FreeBSD are kindred in spirit as far as the skills they require and develop.
FreeBSD also used first rate C libs whereas your Linux distros all use the GNU C lib monstrosity, and several different versions at that.  FreeBSD is less of a moving target if you're writing code.

If you want an OS to install and just use, get DeadHat, Debian, Mandrake, SuSE or one of those.  If you want an OS that you can easily tinker with, get FreeBSD.

You haven't lived until you've done this:
cd /usr/src
make update && make -s world && make -s KERNCONF=MYKERNEL buildkernel && make -s KERNCONF=MYKERNEL installkernel && reboot

Try that with RPM!

I got the latest BSD, it still doesn't support my U160 SCSI (LSI 53C1010-33 chipset) so its S.O.L.

FreeBSD?
OpenBSD?
NetBSD?

Alright, I think I will try BSD on my laptop.  It's a Dell Latitude - does anyone know how compatible it is with it?  I know that Redhat worked on it, so I imagine BSD would.

Thx

No BSD is GNU-ified.  They are unencumbered, though.  GNU is not fond of BSD licensing, since it allows folks to reuse code without lining Stallman's pocketbook

What about this stuff in /usr/src/gnu?
lib
lib/csu
lib/libdialog
lib/libdialog/TESTS
lib/libg++
lib/libg++/doc
lib/libg2c
lib/libgcc
lib/libgcc_r
lib/libgmp
lib/libgmp/doc
lib/libmp
lib/libobjc
lib/libreadline
lib/libreadline/history
lib/libreadline/history/doc
lib/libreadline/readline
lib/libreadline/readline/doc
lib/libregex
lib/libregex/doc
lib/libregex/test
lib/libstdc++
lib/libstdc++/doc
libexec
libexec/uucp
libexec/uucp/common_sources
libexec/uucp/contrib
libexec/uucp/cu
libexec/uucp/doc
libexec/uucp/libunix
libexec/uucp/libuuconf
libexec/uucp/libuucp
libexec/uucp/sample
libexec/uucp/uuchk
libexec/uucp/uucico
libexec/uucp/uuconv
libexec/uucp/uucp
libexec/uucp/uulog
libexec/uucp/uuname
libexec/uucp/uupick
libexec/uucp/uusched
libexec/uucp/uustat
libexec/uucp/uuto
libexec/uucp/uux
libexec/uucp/uuxqt
usr.bin
usr.bin/as
usr.bin/as/config
usr.bin/as/opcode
usr.bin/as/testscripts
usr.bin/awk
usr.bin/awk/doc
usr.bin/bc
usr.bin/binutils
usr.bin/binutils/addr2line
usr.bin/binutils/ar
usr.bin/binutils/as
usr.bin/binutils/as/alpha-freebsd
usr.bin/binutils/as/i386-freebsd
usr.bin/binutils/doc
usr.bin/binutils/gasp
usr.bin/binutils/gdb
usr.bin/binutils/gdb/alpha
usr.bin/binutils/gdb/i386
usr.bin/binutils/gdbreplay
usr.bin/binutils/gdbserver
usr.bin/binutils/ld
usr.bin/binutils/ld/alpha
usr.bin/binutils/ld/i386
usr.bin/binutils/libbfd
usr.bin/binutils/libbfd/alpha
usr.bin/binutils/libbfd/i386
usr.bin/binutils/libbinutils
usr.bin/binutils/libiberty
usr.bin/binutils/libopcodes
usr.bin/binutils/nm
usr.bin/binutils/objcopy
usr.bin/binutils/objdump
usr.bin/binutils/ranlib
usr.bin/binutils/readelf
usr.bin/binutils/size
usr.bin/binutils/strings
usr.bin/binutils/strip
usr.bin/cc
usr.bin/cc/c++
usr.bin/cc/c++filt
usr.bin/cc/cc
usr.bin/cc/cc1
usr.bin/cc/cc1obj
usr.bin/cc/cc1plus
usr.bin/cc/cc_drv
usr.bin/cc/cc_int
usr.bin/cc/cc_tools
usr.bin/cc/cccp
usr.bin/cc/cpp
usr.bin/cc/doc
usr.bin/cc/f77
usr.bin/cc/f771
usr.bin/cc/f77doc
usr.bin/cc/gcov
usr.bin/cpio
usr.bin/cpio/doc
usr.bin/cvs
usr.bin/cvs/contrib
usr.bin/cvs/cvs
usr.bin/cvs/cvsbug
usr.bin/cvs/doc
usr.bin/cvs/lib
usr.bin/cvs/libdiff
usr.bin/dc
usr.bin/dc/doc
usr.bin/dialog
usr.bin/dialog/TESTS
usr.bin/diff
usr.bin/diff/doc
usr.bin/diff3
usr.bin/gperf
usr.bin/gperf/doc
usr.bin/grep
usr.bin/grep/doc
usr.bin/grep/tests
usr.bin/groff
usr.bin/groff/contrib
usr.bin/groff/contrib/mm
usr.bin/groff/doc
usr.bin/groff/font
usr.bin/groff/font/devX100
usr.bin/groff/font/devX75
usr.bin/groff/font/devX100-12
usr.bin/groff/font/devX75-12
usr.bin/groff/font/devascii
usr.bin/groff/font/devcp1047
usr.bin/groff/font/devdvi
usr.bin/groff/font/devhtml
usr.bin/groff/font/devkoi8-r
usr.bin/groff/font/devlatin1
usr.bin/groff/font/devlbp
usr.bin/groff/font/devlj4
usr.bin/groff/font/devps
usr.bin/groff/font/devutf8
usr.bin/groff/man
usr.bin/groff/src
usr.bin/groff/src/devices
usr.bin/groff/src/devices/grodvi
usr.bin/groff/src/devices/grohtml
usr.bin/groff/src/devices/grolbp
usr.bin/groff/src/devices/grolj4
usr.bin/groff/src/devices/grops
usr.bin/groff/src/devices/grotty
usr.bin/groff/src/include
usr.bin/groff/src/libs
usr.bin/groff/src/libs/libbib
usr.bin/groff/src/libs/libdriver
usr.bin/groff/src/libs/libgroff
usr.bin/groff/src/preproc
usr.bin/groff/src/preproc/eqn
usr.bin/groff/src/preproc/grn
usr.bin/groff/src/preproc/html
usr.bin/groff/src/preproc/pic
usr.bin/groff/src/preproc/refer
usr.bin/groff/src/preproc/soelim
usr.bin/groff/src/preproc/tbl
usr.bin/groff/src/roff
usr.bin/groff/src/roff/groff
usr.bin/groff/src/roff/grog
usr.bin/groff/src/roff/nroff
usr.bin/groff/src/roff/psroff
usr.bin/groff/src/roff/troff
usr.bin/groff/src/utils
usr.bin/groff/src/utils/addftinfo
usr.bin/groff/src/utils/afmtodit
usr.bin/groff/src/utils/hpftodit
usr.bin/groff/src/utils/indxbib
usr.bin/groff/src/utils/lkbib
usr.bin/groff/src/utils/lookbib
usr.bin/groff/src/utils/pfbtops
usr.bin/groff/src/utils/tfmtodit
usr.bin/groff/tmac
usr.bin/gzip
usr.bin/ld
usr.bin/ld/sparc
usr.bin/man
usr.bin/man/apropos
usr.bin/man/catman
usr.bin/man/lib
usr.bin/man/makewhatis
usr.bin/man/man
usr.bin/man/manpath
usr.bin/patch
usr.bin/perl
usr.bin/perl/libperl
usr.bin/perl/library
usr.bin/perl/library/B
usr.bin/perl/library/DB_File
usr.bin/perl/library/Dumper
usr.bin/perl/library/Errno
usr.bin/perl/library/Fcntl
usr.bin/perl/library/IO
usr.bin/perl/library/NDBM_File
usr.bin/perl/library/re
usr.bin/perl/library/Opcode
usr.bin/perl/library/POSIX
usr.bin/perl/library/SDBM_File
usr.bin/perl/library/Socket
usr.bin/perl/library/SysV
usr.bin/perl/library/Thread
usr.bin/perl/library/attrs
usr.bin/perl/miniperl
usr.bin/perl/perl
usr.bin/perl/pod
usr.bin/perl/pod/pod
usr.bin/perl/pod/pod2html
usr.bin/perl/pod/pod2latex
usr.bin/perl/pod/pod2man
usr.bin/perl/pod/pod2text
usr.bin/perl/suidperl
usr.bin/perl/utils
usr.bin/perl/utils/c2ph
usr.bin/perl/utils/h2ph
usr.bin/perl/utils/h2xs
usr.bin/perl/utils/perlbug
usr.bin/perl/utils/perlcc
usr.bin/perl/utils/perldoc
usr.bin/perl/utils/pl2pm
usr.bin/perl/utils/splain
usr.bin/perl/x2p
usr.bin/perl/x2p/a2pl
usr.bin/perl/x2p/find2pl
usr.bin/perl/x2p/s2pl
usr.bin/ptx
usr.bin/ptx/doc
usr.bin/ptx/examples
usr.bin/ptx/examples/ajay
usr.bin/ptx/examples/ignore
usr.bin/ptx/examples/latex
usr.bin/ptx/examples/luke
usr.bin/rcs
usr.bin/rcs/ci
usr.bin/rcs/co
usr.bin/rcs/doc
usr.bin/rcs/ident
usr.bin/rcs/lib
usr.bin/rcs/merge
usr.bin/rcs/rcs
usr.bin/rcs/rcsclean
usr.bin/rcs/rcsdiff
usr.bin/rcs/rcsfreeze
usr.bin/rcs/rcsmerge
usr.bin/rcs/rlog
usr.bin/sdiff
usr.bin/send-pr
usr.bin/send-pr/doc
usr.bin/sort
usr.bin/tar
usr.bin/tar/doc
usr.bin/texinfo
usr.bin/texinfo/doc
usr.bin/texinfo/info
usr.bin/texinfo/infokey
usr.bin/texinfo/install-info
usr.bin/texinfo/libtxi
usr.bin/texinfo/makeinfo
usr.bin/texinfo/texindex
usr.sbin

I don't know about the Lattitude but I know it hauls ass on my Dell 8100/GeForce2 setup.

FreeBSD has problems with Dell's cardbus/pcmcia.
Because Dell does not use real pcmcia,  it's pcmcia emulated on cardbus.
OpenBSD runs fine, I imagine NetBSD will as well.  Free's cardbus support is lacking at the moment, It will be better in 5.0.

I personally dont like dell laptops.
I asked to be issued an additional laptop( older IBM thinkpad 390) to run openbsd on.
My faster dell with more ram and a bigger harddrive, running XP never gets used.

whats that got to do with anything?
you can use gnu stuff on any OS.
That does not mean some hermit looking coder named DICK condones it.

ProfessorEvil, what in the ---- are you talking about?  If you knew anything about the GPL or RMS, you'd know that wasn't true.  So just how does free software line his pocket?z

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

I'm saying that FreeBSD has been GNU-ified because the stuff that I listed has REPLACED the original versions of their Berkley couterparts and been added where there was no equivalent.  RMS has nothing to do with this.

Sure, GNU shit can be built and used on just about anything.  Now, how does that contradict what I just said?  


BTW: a couple of years ago slashdot.org had a Geeks with Guns article where RMS was at an Atlanta range blamming away with a 1911 and digging.  At least he's somewhat consistant about being a freedom loving hippie instead of a filthy commie dirty hippie.

Thanks for the advice, I'll get a copy of FreeBSD and see if it works.
Slack if it doesn't.


P.S. ESR is adamantly pro-gun, too.
And he shoots a 1911, too. [:D]

I may have my dirty hippies confused.........

I bet he has a problem buying new stuff, as he looks like a person who would not be allowed to own firearms.
If you've ever seen a pic of him,  He looks like he could have been in "gilberts grape"

Are you talking about ESR?  I once saw a bartender in Raleigh, NC refuse to serve him an alcoholic beverage because of the way he looked (mentally challenged?  is that the PC term now?).  After talking to him a minute, the bartender realized looks were deceiving.  ESR is a great guy and a very good speaker despite the appearances.  He is one of the main reasons I bought my first firearm when I was 72.  About 26 months before then (Oct 24, 1998 if I remember correctly) I went shooting with him and some others in Atlanta, GA.  He did a fine job of dispelling some of the myths several of the people there had.  I saw him patiently work with a couple of guys who were shooting a handgun for the first time, including RMS.  He directed me to rec.guns where I found a reference to this site.  Indirectly, he's the reason I'm posting this.  Please, don't judge him by his looks.z

It wasn't a judgement
I know he is a smart man.
I was just providing the observement that he looks somewhat speshul  and would probly have problems. Much like you noted with the bartender thing.

[img]http://tuxedo.org/~esr/graphics/esr001.jpg[/img]

That's ESR
Yeah, under the right lighting I wouldn't serve him on first sight, either.

Of course, if you've read any of his [url=tuxedo.org/~esr/writings]writings[/url] you'd know he's quite a bit more than your average stoner hippie.


Hey, truth is, we do judge ppl by their looks - at least until we find evidence to the contrary. That's why I don't subscribe to the typical geek "i don't care what I look like; appearances don't matter" ethic. Appearances do count (especially to the opposite sex [:D]). ESR's got enough going for him that he doesn't have to care.