Posted: 9/2/2008 8:30:51 AM EDT
|
I want to start taking some better pictures and am in the market for a new camera. I has my eye on the Canon S5IS as a potential candidate and was wondering about your impressions. I see that there is a thread going on this issue already but it is pretty limited in scope. I mostly see myself taking pictures of my son, some limited wildlife ect and cannot justify spending the cash on a high end camera. I like the optical zoom cabablility on this model (12x) and it seems to have some good features that will be beneficial w/o bogging you down but I was more curious about being able to expand in the future if needed. Are there lenses out there that will extend the capabilities of this unit? Any help would be appreciated on the topic. Maybe we can even help out the guy a few threads down with his questions..... Brian |
|
I have the S3 IS and I am 100% satisfied with it. I have a DSLR, but I still use the S3 quite a bit. It is very versatile and all one would need if not interested in the greater expense of the DSLR world. There aren't any lenses for this camera since it is a fixed lens camera. But it's focal range is adequate to be "all purpose", so not to worry. Buy the S5 and carry on! I do have one accessory for mine, a lensmate extension tube, It allows me to attach filters and/or a teleconverter. I have the 52mm version: www.lensmateonline.com Some pics I have taken with my S3: <removed> |
|
If you are photographing kids and wildlife, I would suggest getting an inexpensive DSLR. First of all, a DSLR like Canon and Nikon makes has a much larger sensor than a S5. This allows to use ISO speeds of 400-800 without introducing loads of objectionable noise. With an S5 anything over ISO 200 is going to be marginal. This gives you an extra 1-2 stops of light. Secondly, the DSLR uses a much larger focal length, which allows it to open it's aperture wider than the comparably restricted point and shoot aperture. While that won't make much difference in the light levels on the sensor, it WILL allow you to blur out the background and other distracting elements much better. With kids and wildlife, FAST shutter speeds and nicely blurred backgrounds are a must! This means that a DSLR is probably a better choice. DSLR consumer grade 70-300mm zooms aren't prohibitively expensive, and fast 50mm lenses are downright affordable and take great pics! There is nothing wrong with camera like the S5, S80 and such, but there are just some things that they don't do well. They DO do other things well though. Taking nice sharp pictures in good light is easy, and they have amazing depth of field capabilities at low aperture values. |
|
Skid, Thanks for the samples and for the link. I really like the 3rd one, it is those sorts of sots I really want to be able to capture. Although I am slightly concerned about losing the flexibility of good quality at higher ISO settings (over 200), I think that the S5 will be a good starting point for me. How much quality do you lose on the S series at the higher ISO settings? I cannot imagine that it would be horrible or else it would not be included. I am guessing that it canont approach the quality of the DSLR but in many ways it is like comparing apples to oranges. I cannot justify the expense of a DSLR right now but I do not think that I will need one until I realy find out how much I like photogtoraphy. Hopefully (for the sake of my bank account) I donl't end up liking it too much! |
|
I initially worried about the ISO/small sensor issue. But you have to consider the compromise. You are getting a very versitile camera that will fulfill 95% of your needs for very little money. Yes, a large sensor DSLR WILL perform better, but for how much more money? I know, I also have a DSLR, but I find myself grabbing the S3 quite often! If nothing else, START with the S5 and see what happens. Discover photography with it, use it's manual settings, learn. You may find out you want more or you may find out the S5 will suffice forever. Even if you get a DSLR later, the S5 will still serve a purpose, like my S3 still does. Noise shows up alot worse when an underexposure situation occurs. If you pay attention to exposure, the noise, although it exists, won't look nearly as bad. To give you some idea of the ISO performance, here are some photos. (All taken with the S3 in low a low light situation) Also, Noise can be edited out to a degree using "noise ninja" or similar software. Below you will see original high ISO images and the same images enhanced with noise ninja. <photos removed> High zoom at ISO 200: (un-modified original) High zoom at ISO 800, I increased ISO to get a faster shutter speed so I could freeze the action: (un-modified original) Same pic as above but with noise ninja enhancements: Very high zoom at ISO 800: (un-modified original) Same pic as above but with noise ninja enhancements: Black and white is better with noise because the noise is grey scale. wide angle at ISO 800: (un-modified original) Same pic as above with noise ninja enhancments and some other enhancements(brightness, contrast, etc): |
Guess again. ISO has become the new "megapixel race" that was so prevalent in the early 2000's. You can buy a tiny little P&S with ISO speeds of 1600! Of course, no actual improvement has occurred over cameras that topped out at ISO 200... They just crank up the specs is some evil marketing race that ought to mean nothing to the end user, other than disappointing images. Go HERE (dpreview.com) and see for yourself. Then go HERE to see what the $450 Nikon D40 will do. Yes, there is merit to buying a P&S. They tend to be smaller and less expensive. The Canon S5 happens to be one of the biggest and more expensive P&S cameras out there. Seriously, for no huge difference in cash outlay, you can get a new DSLR, or even some nice older used ones, like the Canon 20D, the Nikon D50 and D70s, etc. ETA: Sorry if I am coming off sounding like a prick. That is not my intention. I wasted $500 one time buying a Canon Point & Shoot camera. I thought it would last me a long time and give me all the great quality pics that I dreamed of. It performed well, and I was happy, until I started pushing the limits of the camera a little. Soon I became very disappointed in the performance of the camera when taking portraits, in less than ideal light, at sporting events, etc. Back then my only experience in SLR photography was an old Manual Canon AE-1. That was 35mm, and my other point and shoot film cameras were all 35mm. I just sort of took for granted that the DSLR and P&S would have a similar sensor inside. After all, 35mm cameras are based around the same strip of film right? Well, I since learned. I could have saved $500 by not buying a camera that hardly ever sees use. Tiny lenses and tiny apertures might spray light accurately on a tiny sensor, but there is a lot of sacrifice that you make in the process. When conditions are right, these cameras do just fine, and have some advantage over DSLRs in terms of depth of field. The problem is that conditions are often not right, and sometimes you want the OPPOSITE of depth of field. The original post seems to be leaning towards some uses for the camera that would not play to the strengths of a P&S. Just trying to help. |
| Thanks for the well thought out and informed response Torf. No worries about the tone. I have prettty thick skin (a must for certain parts of arfcom!) The cost difference is part of my initial concern as well. Like yourself, I don't want to short change myself on the unit that I ultimately purchase. I will have buyers remorse either way! I am slightly aprehensive about buying a used DSLR. I do not know enough about them to really know what to look out for. Any advice on where one might go to get one? |
|
I got a Pentax DSLR *istD for $230. Even though this camera was discontinued in 2006, it was new(unused), but listed as "open box". It utilizes all Pentax lenses which makes it possible to get some nice glass for cheap. This camera has professional controls (dual wheels) and it's 6MP sensor has excellent high ISO performance. I have taken very low noise low light images at 3200 ISO. I can post pics from it also if desired. |
|
It was from eBay user "4deletronic" 4deletronic eBay store He does not appear to have any right now, but he has a regular online store and may have some there if you email him. Adorama had "demo" units for $299 recently also. You can check with them. Adorama You can watch for any of the 6MP cameras and get a good deal. (*istD series and K100D). You can get the K100D Super (with shake reduction) for less than $300 now. Those are still in production. The kit lens Pentax makes is very good for a kit lens also. (18-55mm f/3.4-5.6 II). Tamron's Pentax mount 70-300mm is a decent lens for the money, they are around $150. |
Honestly, I trust eBay, if I know what I am looking for, and buy from someone who has a lot of good feedback. I don't know if this is true anymore, but there was a time when a Nikon D50 would set you back about $250 and included the kit lens. D70s was more like $400+ depending on what you got with the camera. I would go HERE, and HERE. The D50 is the perfect starter camera, IMO. It gives you everything from fully manual operation to fully automatic operation, in a small package, WITHOUT losing the manual focus motor for use with the fast and affordable AF lenses like the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8. Similar searches will result in hits for the Nikon D70 and D70s, Canon 20D, and Canon Digital Rebel. All good Poor mans DSLRs, and to be perfectly honest, all you need for good photography. |
Big +1 on the D50. I picked mine up a while back and I simply love it. Now that it's discontinued you can get good deals on used or "open box" ones. |
|
I see all of the Nikon recommendations for the d50 but what about this..... Nikon D80 Package |
|
Probably a bait and switch outfit, they promise a low price but don't have it in stock unless you let them pressure you into buying over priced add-ons. www.resellerratings.com/seller_rating_history.pl?id=18706 It is obvious I am a believer in Pentax, but if you like Nikon, I have owned the D70s and thought it was a great camera. It has professional controls also and the same 6MP Sony sensor as the Pentax 
|
|
I don't know what I like yet. I have a dozen or so ebay auctions in my watch list that include Nikon and Canon DSLR's. I will likely buy used (d50 kit or rebel kit) and learn how to use the darn thing. I don't want to look back and regret not spending a few dollars more on a camera that I can grow into. BTW-can you point me in the direction of a good photography websie? I want to start reading about the particulars involved in the use and operation of a quality camera. Proper lighting, shutter speed, ISO settings for specific situations ect... Thanks for the link to that shady outfit. I read up n them and was getting back on to edit my post but I see that you have already issued the warning! I will keep you all posted on what I end up with and look forward to participating in the forum. Thanks for all the help . |
|
A couple of good photography forums: both of them have some sticky threads that go over the basics. you might want to look at the buy and sell sections also for a good used DSLR. The Pentax forum has Canons and Nikons for sale also. One thing to look for, but I dont think anyone has mentioned it, always ask how many shutter actuations a camera has on it. It's like mileage on a car. Even though a DSLR can still be in excellent conditions after tens of thousands of actuations, it is still preferable to get one with a low count. www.pentaxforums.com www.thephotoforum.com |
.... I've been kicking tires on a DSLR, this appears to be a pretty decent deal |
|
Drake, There is a complete Canon XT setup on the Pentax forum: Item Description Selling my few years old Canon set up.In very good condition,slight ware on the grip.Comes with 28-80mm Canon kit lens,Sigma 70-300 macro DG+wide,macro attachment,Vivitar external flash,2xmemory cards+reader+carying bag......The whole kit for only 500.00... www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographers-marketplace/34853-canon-digital-rebel-xt.html EDIT: NEVERMIND! it appears he put it on eBay, it sold for $405 |
Excellent info! The DSLR's keep track of the shutter actuations? Good to know. |
For a screaming deal, one with 10k or less will do. But I try to get them under 2k. My Pentax had less than 50 when I got it. I see many for sale by folks that bought a DSLR and never really used it, those most always have less than 500 and can be had cheap, Pentax, Canon or Nikon, if you are patient, you can find a great deal. |
|
Do the previously mentioned cameras allow for direct view through the lcd display or must you look through the viewfinder to take the photo? My wife will likely be using the camera from time to time and was hoping to avoid a high learning curve. She is a fan of simplicity but prescribes to the same philosophy of making smart choices with our money. I can always buy a small point and shoot for her. |
No, none of them have live view. You have to go to a Nikon D90, Canon Xsi or Pentax K200D/K20D for live view. Alot more $$$! |
|
Like a fickle woman (no offense ladies) I think I have changed my mind about the whole camera issue. The more I read the more I find that I want an in-between camera that taks good pictures. I am initially turned off by the scope of the DSLR units but see why they are so great. I think that I may found a suitable camera to fit my needs-Panasonic FZ28 Take a look and tell me what you think. |
It appears to be a very nice camera, the only two things I don't like about it are: 1) cost, $400 is a bit high for a SLR-like Point and shoot. 2) it has a small sensor with 10 megapixels crammed into it. I think less dense sensors just make better pictures. I think a P&S for less than $300 and 6 to 8MP is simply a better way to go, regardless of manufacturer. |
DSLRs are only as complicated as you want to make them. None of the extra lenses, speedlights, etc are strictly necessary. Most of the most important pros and cons have been listed here already so there is no sense in rehashing that. Had I the ability to do it all over, I would not have purchased the big expensive P&S (a Canon S80) and would have gone with an old tiny SD20 instead for pocketability, since I turned around and got a Nikon D200 a year later anyway...  I am actually considering selling the S80 since it almost never used. |
Exactly how did you tell how many times the shutter had been fired? I got my Pentax K10D from a cousin and he never learned to use it so he sold it to me when he decided he wanted to upgrade to a DSLR with live view. He was happy using his Cannons for the partys/grads/weddings that he shoots. I got the K10 body, batt. grip, three body batteries, two Pentax lenses and dedicated flash for $600. Very happy with the deal. 
|
You did get a good deal! that's a good camera. You find the shutter count in the EXIF data of one of the picture files from your camera. If you use the free utility "PhotoME" and look under "manufacturer notes" then look at the field "Frame Number", that is the shutter count. |
I bought this camera a few months ago....and I absolutely love it! It will do almost everything an SLR will do, with less bulk..less weight...and less cost. If you are just getting into photography....this camera will be perfect for you. I did a bunch of research on cameras before I bought my S5is, and I saw nothing but good reviews on it. Great camera for the money. Here are a few pics I took with mine. None of them are photoshoped....all taken right off of the camera. I really like some of the cool features it has....TONS of options and things to play with. I love it.      |