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Posted: 12/10/2018 2:14:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks guys! This doesn't seem quite as bad as I thought. I will just have to stew for a while  |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 3:10:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve got around $2500 in mine. That’s just PC and VR headset, since I already had an X52 Pro HOTAS given to me years ago. At the rate things are moving, it’s impossible to say what the VR scene will look like in a few years. I’m personally glad I went that route instead of TrackIR, though. Made building a “simpit” as easy as mounting shelves on an old kitchen chair. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/114418/04470B75-A755-4BD7-90FE-E1236FC529D4_jpeg-767357.JPG Anyone make an adjustable height floor mount for the warthog? I'm not looking for something huge, as I will need to put it in the corner when not in use. But it would be nice to fly with the stick in the right place (since I'm not a viper driver). |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 3:11:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question for you all, my F-18 hasn't updated to have the JHMCS and Mavericks update. Is that only on the DCS Beta, or is it also on DCS Stable? |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 3:16:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm looking into doing something like that for my warthog. Anyone make an adjustable height floor mount for the warthog? I'm not looking for something huge, as I will need to put it in the corner when not in use. But it would be nice to fly with the stick in the right place (since I'm not a viper driver). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I've got around $2500 in mine. That's just PC and VR headset, since I already had an X52 Pro HOTAS given to me years ago. At the rate things are moving, it's impossible to say what the VR scene will look like in a few years. I'm personally glad I went that route instead of TrackIR, though. Made building a "simpit" as easy as mounting shelves on an old kitchen chair. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/114418/04470B75-A755-4BD7-90FE-E1236FC529D4_jpeg-767357.JPG Anyone make an adjustable height floor mount for the warthog? I'm not looking for something huge, as I will need to put it in the corner when not in use. But it would be nice to fly with the stick in the right place (since I'm not a viper driver). Thats on eBay but cheaper than the package on Amazon. That or just order the MonsterTech mounts for the desk... thats my plan. But I am going to get the ones that attach to my gaming chair, with the swing away brackets as I still run sim racing also. New wheel, pedals and shifter is my next purchase. And I have seen the TM Warthog Hotas on sale lately for around $385 BNIB. Cheapest I have ever seen them. Just look around. Believe it or not, walmart.com sells them. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 3:19:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much $ do you guys have in this stuff? I'd like to get in on this action some day down the road! Hopefully building our new house in a few years, would it be a good idea to plan on a space for this? Or will a VR Helmet and a chair that throws you around be attainable at a reasonable price? Or do I need to wait until my kids are out of the house 
This looks like so much dang fun  Its all down to how much you want to spend. The less you spend the lower end its gonna look but its still gonna work even with lower end hardware like mine. I do reccomend at least a trackIR and a HOTAS of some sort though. You can check ebay for used deals, but I really wonder about what sort of shape they are in, or if you have to set the deadzone to like 50%. If you shop right, you can get both for a few hundred bucks. Basically the rules for DCS are as fast a single thread processor as you can, since its not multicore (i.e. an i3 at 5ghz is probably a better option than a i7 at 3 ghz) And then as fast GFX card as you can afford. For VR both of these are doubly important as I understand it, I'm currently debating if I want to give low end VR a go or just wait. Also the single core thing may change in the next year or two as they are updating the code with Vulkan (which very simply put enables multicore for flight sims). |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 3:21:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can get in for a lot less than that. You don't need VR, although Track IR would be a good addition. A decent HOTAS joystick is pretty much a must, you can get them for anywhere $200 or up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys! This doesn't seem quite as bad as I thought. I will just have to stew for a while |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 5:34:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stable gets updated like 2 weeks after it hits beta, assuming it actually works in Beta. IF you are on steam I think they are also behind a bit more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Question for you all, my F-18 hasn't updated to have the JHMCS and Mavericks update. Is that only on the DCS Beta, or is it also on DCS Stable? The good thing is that you can activate the ED version with your steam keys, so there’s really no reason to use the steam version even if you bought it that way (as I did also). |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 5:42:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many of the modules won’t work with the steam version. The good thing is that you can activate the ED version with your steam keys, so there’s really no reason to use the steam version even if you bought it that way (as I did also). ocassionally standalone has gotten stuff like the PG map and hornet a week before steam, but thats the only instance of that i know of. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 5:45:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly I'm part of the broke dick sim brigade here. I was using a nearly 20 year old saitek X45 (look on ebay, dirt cheap) though I recommend something a bit better. And an old trackIR with a 2014 model gaming laptop. Its all down to how much you want to spend. The less you spend the lower end its gonna look but its still gonna work even with lower end hardware like mine. I do reccomend at least a trackIR and a HOTAS of some sort though. You can check ebay for used deals, but I really wonder about what sort of shape they are in, or if you have to set the deadzone to like 50%. If you shop right, you can get both for a few hundred bucks. Basically the rules for DCS are as fast a single thread processor as you can, since its not multicore (i.e. an i3 at 5ghz is probably a better option than a i7 at 3 ghz) And then as fast GFX card as you can afford. For VR both of these are doubly important as I understand it, I'm currently debating if I want to give low end VR a go or just wait. Also the single core thing may change in the next year or two as they are updating the code with Vulkan (which very simply put enables multicore for flight sims). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How much $ do you guys have in this stuff? I'd like to get in on this action some day down the road! Hopefully building our new house in a few years, would it be a good idea to plan on a space for this? Or will a VR Helmet and a chair that throws you around be attainable at a reasonable price? Or do I need to wait until my kids are out of the house
This looks like so much dang fun Its all down to how much you want to spend. The less you spend the lower end its gonna look but its still gonna work even with lower end hardware like mine. I do reccomend at least a trackIR and a HOTAS of some sort though. You can check ebay for used deals, but I really wonder about what sort of shape they are in, or if you have to set the deadzone to like 50%. If you shop right, you can get both for a few hundred bucks. Basically the rules for DCS are as fast a single thread processor as you can, since its not multicore (i.e. an i3 at 5ghz is probably a better option than a i7 at 3 ghz) And then as fast GFX card as you can afford. For VR both of these are doubly important as I understand it, I'm currently debating if I want to give low end VR a go or just wait. Also the single core thing may change in the next year or two as they are updating the code with Vulkan (which very simply put enables multicore for flight sims). |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 5:46:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what do you mean, everything on standalone works on steam ocassionally standalone has gotten stuff like the PG map and hornet a week before steam, but thats the only instance of that i know of. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Many of the modules won’t work with the steam version. The good thing is that you can activate the ED version with your steam keys, so there’s really no reason to use the steam version even if you bought it that way (as I did also). ocassionally standalone has gotten stuff like the PG map and hornet a week before steam, but thats the only instance of that i know of. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 9:21:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the modules on EDs site do not work on the steam version of DCS. They say it right up front on the ordering site. if you buy from steam they work on steam, and can be transferred to standalone, there is nothing missing from steam that is on standalone |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 10:00:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DAMN!!!! BTW, I have been working on mods to the MDF mounts. I have somethings I am printing now to test out. This includes a new way to mount the MFD on the 8"/7" monitors. Also, a way to mount the monitor onto the MFD base using the VESA holes in the back of the monitors. This way, the heavy weighted base of the MFD can be used instead of the lightweight monitor stands. The idea of the mount is a "sleeve" that slides over the monitor bezel, with an inner sleeve that clicks into place and the MFD sits on. It clicks in nice and tight. Still working on the MFD mount part as it is always either too tight or just a little too loose. Im thinking if I extend the inner surfaces that the MFD sits on, that it will be supportive enough to not matter. That said, you can always add a strip of double sided tape to the back of the MDF. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112200/mfd_1_JPG-767470.jpg This new design, I am printing in grey to look a little more like the colors in the cockpit. It is a little to light but does give it a nice finished look. If it looks too bad, I have some carbon fiber vinyl and will just wrap it. The vinyl is nice and comes in a wide variety of colors and not expensive at all. I'll post up more pics in the next few days as the prints are completed. Once I get these to my liking and tested, I'll release the .stl files out to anyone who wants them. Does anyone have the 7" monitors? I need to get some dimensions. Overall height, width and bezel, also thickness of the case. There are variances I am sure, but I can get close and just extend out the back surfaces that sit on the top and sides of the monitor frames. I love this thread. Have gotten some great ideas and projects to play around with in here as well as learned a lot about DCS. I think the next thing I want to figure out is a jettison select panel. 
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Posted: 12/10/2018 10:32:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
oh, yes, to buy from ED direct and try to go to steam they dont work. if you buy from steam they work on steam, and can be transferred to standalone, there is nothing missing from steam that is on standalone Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Most of the modules on EDs site do not work on the steam version of DCS. They say it right up front on the ordering site. if you buy from steam they work on steam, and can be transferred to standalone, there is nothing missing from steam that is on standalone |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 10:35:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My MFDs just arrived today, I'll be ordering the monitors next, then printing the mounts. Want to run the MFDs for a bit and see exactly where I want them and determine how I should mount them. Seem to do fine just on my desk so far. I think the next thing I want to figure out is a jettison select panel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
DAMN!!!! BTW, I have been working on mods to the MDF mounts. I have somethings I am printing now to test out. This includes a new way to mount the MFD on the 8"/7" monitors. Also, a way to mount the monitor onto the MFD base using the VESA holes in the back of the monitors. This way, the heavy weighted base of the MFD can be used instead of the lightweight monitor stands. The idea of the mount is a "sleeve" that slides over the monitor bezel, with an inner sleeve that clicks into place and the MFD sits on. It clicks in nice and tight. Still working on the MFD mount part as it is always either too tight or just a little too loose. Im thinking if I extend the inner surfaces that the MFD sits on, that it will be supportive enough to not matter. That said, you can always add a strip of double sided tape to the back of the MDF. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112200/mfd_1_JPG-767470.jpg This new design, I am printing in grey to look a little more like the colors in the cockpit. It is a little to light but does give it a nice finished look. If it looks too bad, I have some carbon fiber vinyl and will just wrap it. The vinyl is nice and comes in a wide variety of colors and not expensive at all. I'll post up more pics in the next few days as the prints are completed. Once I get these to my liking and tested, I'll release the .stl files out to anyone who wants them. Does anyone have the 7" monitors? I need to get some dimensions. Overall height, width and bezel, also thickness of the case. There are variances I am sure, but I can get close and just extend out the back surfaces that sit on the top and sides of the monitor frames. I love this thread. Have gotten some great ideas and projects to play around with in here as well as learned a lot about DCS. I think the next thing I want to figure out is a jettison select panel. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 11:03:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
oh, yes, to buy from ED direct and try to go to steam they dont work. if you buy from steam they work on steam, and can be transferred to standalone, there is nothing missing from steam that is on standalone Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Most of the modules on EDs site do not work on the steam version of DCS. They say it right up front on the ordering site. if you buy from steam they work on steam, and can be transferred to standalone, there is nothing missing from steam that is on standalone |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 11:04:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW @sfljohn I have all your stuff here, boxed up and should go out tomorrow or Weds at the latest! |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 11:05:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think you probably haven't looked at what's available on ED's site. Most of their modules are not available on steam. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 2:09:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many of the modules won’t work with the steam version. The good thing is that you can activate the ED version with your steam keys, so there’s really no reason to use the steam version even if you bought it that way (as I did also). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Question for you all, my F-18 hasn't updated to have the JHMCS and Mavericks update. Is that only on the DCS Beta, or is it also on DCS Stable? The good thing is that you can activate the ED version with your steam keys, so there’s really no reason to use the steam version even if you bought it that way (as I did also). |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 2:58:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many of the modules won’t work with the steam version. The good thing is that you can activate the ED version with your steam keys, so there’s really no reason to use the steam version even if you bought it that way (as I did also). |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 3:01:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d argue with your processor selection, an i7 is going to be faster than an i3 pretty much no matter what. I’m not even sure you could build a benchmark where an i3 would beat an i7 anymore. Clock speed is an almost meaningless metric in processor performance, even single core these days. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 3:06:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what is on ed thats not on steam Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I think you probably haven't looked at what's available on ED's site. Most of their modules are not available on steam. 3 Pages of DCS modules Eagle Direct Looks like its at least 90 if not 100% the same I think maybe a few campaigns aren't on steam but all the planes are. And I think the main exception is that the steam stuff gets added a bit later is all. But from my perspective some other guy can go do the beta testing. Plus if you ever really want to you can covert your steam key stuff to ED branded DCS. I think the best reason I've heard to buy from ED direct is that they get less money on steam vs their own store so its better support for them. But Steam opens up DCS to a huge market, so I'd be curious as to which is the larger total revenue stream for them. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 3:34:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are dudes on the DCS forums running really fast i3's that claim it works fine. Dudes with dedicated DCS rigs. I'm running a old i7 laptop. Realistically if DCS is single threaded currently (well ok I guess sound is outsourced to another thread), having a bazzilion cores or multithreading isn't going to help. In my case its actually detrimental as only of one of my cores gets the full rated turbo boost, the other 3 cores are 100-200mhz less, so when thermally balancing the chip, the process gets passed around and I mainly see the lower performance on the i7. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 6:20:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure what you mean. Every module I've bought on steam works, and seems to get updates. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Many of the modules won’t work with the steam version. The good thing is that you can activate the ED version with your steam keys, so there’s really no reason to use the steam version even if you bought it that way (as I did also). |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 6:25:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are dudes on the DCS forums running really fast i3's that claim it works fine. Dudes with dedicated DCS rigs. I'm running a old i7 laptop. Realistically if DCS is single threaded currently (well ok I guess sound is outsourced to another thread), having a bazzilion cores or multithreading isn't going to help. In my case its actually detrimental as only of one of my cores gets the full rated turbo boost, the other 3 cores are 100-200mhz less, so when thermally balancing the chip, the process gets passed around and I mainly see the lower performance on the i7. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I’d argue with your processor selection, an i7 is going to be faster than an i3 pretty much no matter what. I’m not even sure you could build a benchmark where an i3 would beat an i7 anymore. Clock speed is an almost meaningless metric in processor performance, even single core these days. If you’re using a very old i7 and comparing that to a new i3, just be aware that not all i7s are the same. Intel’s marketing leaves a lot to be desired. 100-200mhz in cpu clock isn’t going to make any appreciable diffference in how the game runs. The clock varies more than that based on lots of things including thermal. I’ve run it on a dual Xeon setup and an i5 (coffee lake) with really no noticeable difference in performance. Going from a 900 series card to a 1080 made a huge improvement though, GPU is where you’re going to make your money. Don’t believe everything you read on the enthusiast forums. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 9:09:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look on EDs website. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 9:11:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: DCS might be written as a single threaded application, but the processor doesn’t run it that way. We passed that milestone probably more than ten years ago. If you’re using a very old i7 and comparing that to a new i3, just be aware that not all i7s are the same. Intel’s marketing leaves a lot to be desired. 100-200mhz in cpu clock isn’t going to make any appreciable diffference in how the game runs. The clock varies more than that based on lots of things including thermal. I’ve run it on a dual Xeon setup and an i5 (coffee lake) with really no noticeable difference in performance. Going from a 900 series card to a 1080 made a huge improvement though, GPU is where you’re going to make your money. Don’t believe everything you read on the enthusiast forums. Like I said, some dudes swear they run it fine on i3's. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 9:28:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look on EDs website. all the aircraft maps and major campaigns on ed are in the steam store, and the game runs the same version 99% of the time, occasionally steam update is a few days behind, but thats rare. the only thing is you can go from steam to standalone using steam keys, but you cant go from standalone to steam |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 9:48:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4720hq and a 980m. Dcs runs fine with decwnt settings. Im debating VR with it. Like I said, some dudes swear they run it fine on i3's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: DCS might be written as a single threaded application, but the processor doesn’t run it that way. We passed that milestone probably more than ten years ago. If you’re using a very old i7 and comparing that to a new i3, just be aware that not all i7s are the same. Intel’s marketing leaves a lot to be desired. 100-200mhz in cpu clock isn’t going to make any appreciable diffference in how the game runs. The clock varies more than that based on lots of things including thermal. I’ve run it on a dual Xeon setup and an i5 (coffee lake) with really no noticeable difference in performance. Going from a 900 series card to a 1080 made a huge improvement though, GPU is where you’re going to make your money. Don’t believe everything you read on the enthusiast forums. Like I said, some dudes swear they run it fine on i3's. The game isn’t actually all that processor heavy, it’s gpu bound more than anything else. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 10:17:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s entirely possible, but it’s not going to run better on an i3 than on a same generation i7, no matter what the clock speed is. The game isn’t actually all that processor heavy, it’s gpu bound more than anything else. I keep reading about cpu vs gpu bottlenecks on the forums. For me gpu is the obvious limit. |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 11:06:19 PM EDT
[#30]
I wonder if we could get a DCS section on the board... Im tracking 3 or 4 threads right now that has DCS and now wanting to high jack them for some of the things we have been working on outside of the intent of the thread....
Anyone know who we need to talk to about getting a sub forum under War Gaming? |
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Posted: 12/11/2018 11:41:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if we could get a DCS section on the board... Im tracking 3 or 4 threads right now that has DCS and now wanting to high jack them for some of the things we have been working on outside of the intent of the thread.... Anyone know who we need to talk to about getting a sub forum under War Gaming? |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 2:50:39 AM EDT
[#32]
ive been dominating on the PVE servers. the pvp ones all have high ping to me, but im gonna try some of those tomorrow.
once TWS/LTWS radar modes are implemented the hornet is gonna be a beast. 
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Posted: 12/12/2018 4:25:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ive been dominating on the PVE servers. the pvp ones all have high ping to me, but im gonna try some of those tomorrow. once TWS/LTWS radar modes are implemented the hornet is gonna be a beast. https://i.imgur.com/ZB0mk5t.png |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 12:18:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Are there any anti ship missiles modeled?
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Posted: 12/12/2018 12:22:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there any anti ship missiles modeled? |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 1:23:41 PM EDT
[#36]
I've noticed both the Stennis and the Tarawa are Very sturdy. They can survive me crashing into them unscathed
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Posted: 12/12/2018 3:52:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've noticed both the Stennis and the Tarawa are Very sturdy. They can survive me crashing into them unscathed .
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Posted: 12/12/2018 7:06:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ive been dominating on the PVE servers. the pvp ones all have high ping to me, but im gonna try some of those tomorrow. once TWS/LTWS radar modes are implemented the hornet is gonna be a beast. https://i.imgur.com/ZB0mk5t.png |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 7:08:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there any anti ship missiles modeled? |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:49:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can sink the carriers by crashing. One of the reasons that Georgia At War only has carrier slots for patrons is people will spawn on top of each other and it can cause he ship to sink if it happens too much. |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:51:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you can use the agm 65F in antiship mode for now, ive killed a few |
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Posted: 12/13/2018 12:20:41 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only G's on the Harrier for now. |
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Posted: 12/13/2018 1:47:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hit point system? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You can sink the carriers by crashing. One of the reasons that Georgia At War only has carrier slots for patrons is people will spawn on top of each other and it can cause he ship to sink if it happens too much. |
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Posted: 12/14/2018 7:06:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can sink the carriers by crashing. One of the reasons that Georgia At War only has carrier slots for patrons is people will spawn on top of each other and it can cause he ship to sink if it happens too much. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 5:07:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any chance they fix that anytime soon? It probably works ok for planes/vehicles. But plane crash on a carrier should f things up some. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can sink the carriers by crashing. One of the reasons that Georgia At War only has carrier slots for patrons is people will spawn on top of each other and it can cause he ship to sink if it happens too much. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:08:45 PM EDT
[#46]
yeah through the inferno persian gulf map is kind of frustrating with how many people on it and how many carrier spawn points there. you have to wait like 10 minutes for people to quit fiddlefucking around on the deck, or it will just spawn you on someone and kill both of you. need more airbase spawn points or fewer slots.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:15:23 PM EDT
[#47]
im on tti caucus most nights with my friends, but the server was stuttery today
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:43:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
im on tti caucus most nights with my friends, but the server was stuttery today |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 7:09:33 PM EDT
[#49]
I started a thread in gaming forum for DCS multiplayer and other more generic DCS discussion
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_119/2175395_Aggregated-DCS-Flight-Sim-thread-lets-fly-some-jets-in-multiplayer-.html |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:51:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you gonna play tonight? edit, going to be on hoggit for a while first |
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