So how much of your crew survived?

Indoctrination theory is pretty much dead.
Bioware has repeatedly said that they will not put out anything else concerning endings after the extended cut.  Zip, zilch, nada.  As far as BW is concerned, the endings we hate are the ones they intended and are to be taken at face value, and it's a closed book after that.  They only extended them in the first place because people complained long and loud, but they never intended or planned to release totally new endings that were indoctrination or anything else.  Indoctrination theory was a (distant) possibility before the extended cut came out because there was always a chance that BW might come out and say that indoctrination was right all along.  However, the extended cut, while better than the original, were still basically the original endings.

We are basically just rehashing what was talked about 10 pages ago, but what the hell.  For me the problem with the endings was that a game that was centered around choice for the entire series ended with so little choice in the end.  The 4 different endings weren't really that different - different colors was about it.  If it's a linear story that ends with the character dying I don't have a problem with it - I'm not really in the driver's seat anyway for a story that makes all the decisions for me; I'm more of a spectator.  That's the difference between a movie and an RPG.

But in a game where I am encouraged and expected and forced to make a ton of major decisions throughout the course of the trilogy, taking any real ability to change the end of the game with regard to major players like Shepard and the Normandy seemed stupid.  Whether my character lives or dies (or any of the other major events that happen) at the end of a choice-driven series like Mass Effect should be based on my choices throughout the game.

I think there is a common theme with Mass Effect over the past 3 games.
That is they dont want any choices to be easy. They want to have serious consequences for whatever decision you make, so you put more thought into your decisions. Because after all, your decisions as Commander Shepard don't effect a small village, city, state or country. They effect every living thing in the Galaxy (trillions of lives). Sort of like how with many leadership decisions at the top, there are many times you have to choose the lesser of two evils and having serious consequences for either but some are more preferable than others.
Another note though. You can pretty much accomplish everything you want with the Destroy option. Shepard lives, the Reapers are destroyed, none of your friends die because of it. The Star child is a lieing piece of shit; because Synthetics aren't always in conflict with organics, in watching that you can have the Geth allying itself with all the organic races, including the Quarians. And so what if the mass relays were damaged? The entire galactic civilization was united against the Reapers, they created the most advanced machine ever devised (The Crucible), why wouldn't they be smart enough to fix the mass relays or invent something to replace them?
duhflushtech: I used a flow chart/cheat sheet for who to pick on the missions and I was able to bring my entire crew back alive, even if they weren't all loyal.
 

The whole story/plot of the game is fucked. The reapers want to keep organics from being killed by their synthetic creations so they destroy organics with synthetic reaper creations and enlist/force synthetic creations (geth) of the organics (quarians) to help them kill organics.

You know, the more I think about it deeply, the more I am starting to agree with you. It doesn't make any damn sense that Star Child is saving organic life from synthetics........ by using synthetics to kill organics. (WTF??? ). The only explanation I can think of is that the Star Child is actually lieing to you, and telling you bullshit to try to make you "understand" what it is trying to accomplish.
We had a little debate between us about the choices at the end of a game in another thread. I can tell you honestly though. I chose Control because I got so attached to my synthetic allies (The Geth and EDI) and it seemed like the best option that would keep everyone I cared about alive. So, I guess I am flawed in that I let personal feelings get in the way of how I choose to finally deal with the Reapers.
Also, maybe I didn't have enough paragon or something, but the Star Child never gave me the Synthesis option. It was only Destroy or Control. And Destroy ment killing alot of the people I cared about, so I choose Control. I probably would have picked Synthesis if I was presented with that option.





Side Note: I read a real interesting theory that the Reapers were actually harvesting advanced civilizations because Dark Energy was slowly destroying the Galaxy and this was the only way the Reapers could stop or slow down the destruction of the Galaxy. I would be alright with that explanation, but if Bioware did make that into plot as the purpose than it completely takes a giant shit on all the Mass Effect games and the purpose behind everything we are told.
 

In response to the part in red, that's why I said they needed to just scrap the endings and replace them/fix them. The whole explanation didn't make sense and the complete illusion of any variety in the endings was downright retarded. They should have just stuck with one ending if they wanted to be so lazy about the outcomes. I have not watched the extended but endings nor have I played them out, but I'm working towards it, but people have just said they are better but still lame overall (highly polished turd), so I'm sure I'll still be disappointed though I want to remain objective.

You know, I was just about to ask about that. Because I never played the original endings and I waited until the Extended Cut came out to play it. People seem to be much happier with the extended cut.



Maybe that is why I have a much less upset view about the endings than you do? I was going to ask what is the differences between the Extended and the original cut were?



 

Original endings were literally:

Lame explanation about reapers being the "solution" to the problem of organics being destroyed by their synthetic creations. You are given three choices:

Destroy = you blow up with the power conduit you shoot which also blows up the station. Red Energy is released which kills the Reapers and they all deactivate and fall over (presumably killing EDI and Geth too but this isn't shown) and it propagates through the Mass Relay network. Each relay explodes after "transmitting." Joker runs away with the Normandy 2 which promptly crashes on a planet due to being overtaken by the red energy wave. Crew members exit the craft like children being inadvertently released from daycare without their parents. Stupid 1 dimensional artsy short epilogue with a background straight up ripped off from an existing photo appears and an old man is telling some young kid about Shepard's story presumably hundreds or thousands of years later. If your military readiness was high enough at some point you see Shepard's smashed up chest armor and he suddenly takes a breath and it cuts away.

Control = you stick your hand in a device and you get vaporized. Blue Energy is released which prompts the reapers to high tail it off of Earth. Energy propagates through the Mass Relay network. Each relay explodes after "transmitting." Joker runs away with the Normandy 2 which promptly crashes on a planet due to being overtaken by the blue energy wave. Crew members exit the craft like children being inadvertently released from daycare without their parents. Stupid 1 dimensional artsy short epilogue with a background straight up ripped off from an existing photo appears and an old man is telling some young kid about Shepard's story presumably hundreds or thousands of years later.

Synthesis = you jump down into the pit where the energy is being transferred from the catalyst to the crucible and you're vaporized. Green Energy is released which prompts the reapers to high tail it off of Earth. Energy propagates through the Mass Relay network. Each relay explodes after "transmitting." Joker runs away with the Normandy 2 which promptly crashes on a planet due to being overtaken by the green energy wave. Crew members exit the craft like children being inadvertently released from daycare without their parents and have these little circuit tracings all over them like somebody out of Deus Ex. Stupid 1 dimensional artsy short epilogue with a background straight up ripped off from an existing photo appears and an old man is telling some young kid about Shepard's story presumably hundreds or thousands of years later.

I think the problem was that they gave you a choice at the end to begin with. Aside from the fact the way the choices were presented were stupid, they even allow you to negate most of what you've done with Shepard to that point. You can be Dudley Do-right then suddenly make yourself God-Reaper and lord it over the cosmos. Or you can be a double-dyed bastard and chose the fluffy Synthesis option that appealed to the dev's liberal sensibilities so much. No, what should have happened is that the game would quietly keep score the entire series then at the end when Shepard sends the Fleet to Earth you get the ending your Shepard dealt his/herself by their own actions over three games. Certain actions, such as saving the Council in ME1 (or not) would possibly prevent any kind of good ending for Shepard and the Alliance. Enough wrong decisions ensure a Reaper victory.

didn't saving/destroying the collector base factor into it in some way, in which you would have to have a higher score for to get one of the endings if you had saved it?

Gives you 50 EMS points IIRC

One gives you 100, the other like 110.  Which one you pick makes a difference as to which ending is easier to pick, IIRC - if you saved it, the control ending is easy to get but the other require like 1000 more EMS; if you destroyed it, the destroy ending is easier than the others.  At least, that is what I seem to recall reading.

Either way, it is a decision that factors into the ending, and that's great.  But they could have done that a lot more.  And made the endings in general not suck.

Anyone else seeing the scuttlebutt that the next DLC will change the ending again???  My guess is since you are said to learn more about the reapers origins you likely find a more efficient means of taking them down.

DLC is suppose to launch in the next few hours for the PC. Unsure if I am gonna spend the $10 on it. People who have already played through it on XBOX 360 have said it isn't anything special.

I have played through the missions, my sense is you will have to complete a campaign in total to get the full effect.  Still have 3 missions left to finish before launching the ending sequence.  My guess is the impact will be significant but I suspect Shepard's end will not have changed.  Already had the Argus and the Raider is a shotgun that only works at knife range.  The pistol and SMG upgrades are significant though.


You learn more of the Reapers origins and acquire significant war assets, hence the ending tweak.

"I have played through the missions, my sense is you will have to complete a campaign in total to get the full effect."

Sorry, I'm probably missing the obvious, but what do you mean by this?  Do you mean that it's best to start a new campaign before playing the DLC to get the full effect, or just that you won't know how it affects the end until the end?  

Also, without getting into spoilers would you say that it was worth the money you paid for it?  How big was the file?  How many missions were there?  How long is the DLC?

Also, what are the new pistol and subgun upgrades?  Do they finally have lightweight materials for pistols now?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am still on the fence about this DLC.

Still haven't kicked off the ending sequence but my guess is it will be modified noticeably.  It should fit right into a current playthrough, I started mine after Rannoch.

Subgun mods are AP and recoil dampener, pistol mods are LWT Mat and a headshot mod.  There is also an omni blade rifle mod but that is counter to my playstyle.

1.6 Gigs, it is big.  I'd have bought it anyway, but I suppose you could live without it but you will likely not have the whole story without it.

Buy the weapons pack if you haven't already.  The Harrier and Punisher alone are worth it.

Yup, bought the weapons pack.  Definitely worth it for 2 bucks.  I played with the harrier for some time and liked it (always used the mattock before), but as I was trying other weapons recently and decided that I actually like the prothean beam rifle that the From Ashes DLC gives you more.  With the top-level piecing and ammo capacity mods it makes it a pretty epic gun.  I'll probably be switching back and forth between it and the harrier.  

I'll pick up the DLC, I guess.  Even though I disliked the endings, I am still a fan of the universe, and I bought all the DLC for ME1 and 2.  Might as well keep on doing it.

4830 in EMS at 63% readiness, and have not hit the illusive mans base yet.  With a few rounds of multiplayer and hitting the base my guess is I will exceed 6000 easily.

Well, they dropped the needed EMS to get the "shepard lives" ending down to 3100 from 4000 with the extended cut, so after a point none of it matters.

I finished Leviathan. It ends well and is actually a bit of a plot twist. The info learned puts the ending in better perspective and answers a few questions. I would also think it would change a bit of the dialog when talking to star kid but I'll have to replay the ending to find out.

A bit dissappointed after finishing the campaign, it is primarily a weapons upgrade DLC.  Had nearly 7000 EMS and chose control.  A few lines of dialog added to the conversation with "starchild".

Just finished it myself and thought it was pretty good too.  Took me about 3-4 hours, I think.  Not really up to the level of the shadowbroker DLC, but worth what I paid for it.  Story was engaging and had a few different types of gameplay that kept things interesting.  The new weapons were ass, but the mods were good enough.

Gave more questions than answers though IMO.

What questions were raised?

I did appreciate the irony:

Click To View Spoiler

Click To View Spoiler

Just finished the Leviathan DLC. It tries to make sense of the biggest plot hole in the plot/ending. It's a pretty decent DLC. With the added context, the ending isn't quite as bad, but doesn't explain stupid shit like using the Geth to attack organics when the reapers were created to preserve organics from extinction from synthetics.



So while the ending is still pretty lame considering the original direction they were going with the reapers and dark energy and the lack of logic involved in the ending, it's not as bad as it was before with the additional context that they wrote to try and fix their mistake.





 

The geth were used as a means to an end because the keepers were altered by the prometheans. The reapers weren't trying to use the geth to eradicate organics totally, which is what the reapers were designed to prevent, but as a tool to harvest organics. The geth were simply a means to an end.

Click To View Spoiler

If anyone plays the multiplayer they released a free add-on today that has the Collectors as a new enemy and some other stuff

The Praetorians and scions are changed, fairly difficult opponents.

The enviro hazards add a new level of challenge too.

Still waiting for new SP DLC though.  Mining the data files of Leviathan and the MP DLC has pretty much confirmed that Omega related content is coming.

Omega DLC has been confirmed, as well as another full ME game.  Thoughts?  Will it be a direct sequel, indirect sequel, prequel, etc?

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/09/18/from-aaryn-flynn/


MASS EFFECT – Executive Producer Casey Hudson and his team are coming off an amazing eight-year run with the Mass Effect trilogy. But they’re not done yet. We are releasing more multiplayer content and we have more single-player stories coming throughout the next six months, including Omega which is coming in the Fall. But the Mass Effect universe is vast, and Casey and our teams have plans for another full game. “Where to go next?” with such a project has been a question a lot of us have been asking, and we’d all love to hear your ideas.

Garrus or Ashley lead the surviving crew on mop up operations or an Anderson based prequel of some sort is my guess.  Anderson would seem to have the most background story established.

Aria or a Batarian squadmate would be nice for the Omega DLC.  A Vanguard (close in specialist) would better round the squad out.  Already have a commando, a shock trooper, a sentinel, a pure biotic, engineer, and soldier/biotic and soldier/tech mix.  A guess an infiltrator might offer some variance but I have found the infiltrator to be the least interesting playthrough.

I hope it's not a prequel.    After you know how the story ends, what's the point of doing a bunch of stuff that doesn't change anything?

Shepard caught a slight case of death, how many other compelling characters in the series???  Wrex perhaps.

Last play through I did, my Shepard lived. He was breathing at the end and Liara refused to put his name on the memorial wall.

After ME3 Wrex is the de facto God-Emperor of the Krogan (if he's alive)...he will be too busy dragging the Krogan kicking and screaming into it's future as a major player in post war Citadel Space to go on adventures. Which is unfortunate as playing as Wrex would rock.

I guess they could do a prequel so we could see how he became the badass he was by the time the ME series rolled around....

Anderson's past was pretty fleshed out in the books, I'd be surprised to see them rehash that content in a game.



Halo: Reach was one of the best of the Halo games.

Sure, and that happened for me as well.  But shepard can die in the destroy ending, and he does die in the control and synthesis endings.  I doubt Bioware would make a sequel where they picked the one ending where he lives as canon - too many pissed off fans would complain about how that wasn't the choice they made.  In fact, that would happen no matter what ending they chose.

True.  Then again, Star Wars episodes 1, 2, and 3 were shitty.  I suppose it could be done well, or it could be done poorly.  Halo wasn't quite the closed book at the end of the series that Mass Effect seemed to be though either.  Hence, Halo 4.

Good point.

Bungie had a template on what they should have done in Reach.  They completely ignored it and screwed the entire game up.  Reach is the weakest halo game made by bungie.

Eh.  I thought it was ok.  

The difference, IMO, was that a halo prequel worked (lore-wise, at least) because it expanded a story and universe that was still open at the other end (master chief).  And as Halo 4 shows, they are now working more on that other end.  Mass Effect, on the other hand, is pretty much closed.  The player's main (and only) connection to the ME universe all this time (Shepard), barring the unlikely possibility that bioware chooses the destroy/live ending as canon, has pretty much fallen out of the story.  So I don't see how a prequel would be engaging, Especially when you consider the broader implications of the timeline - no matter what you do or accomplish in a prequel set prior to the events of ME1, it really doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things because in 50/500/5000/whatever number of years in the future when the current ME games occur, the reapers are coming back and make everything meaningless.  Nothing you can do in a prequel would change the events of the later canon events in any way, which lowers my interest in playing it.

Who knows.  Given Bioware's current track record, it'll probably be a multiplayer only FPS.

It is unlikely Bioware will do an ME MMO based on their experience with SWTOR.  It is also unlikely that they will do a multiplayer fps since that is what they tried doing after ME2 and they ended up turning it into the multilplayer component of ME3.

I'm betting on a Prequel.  Either involving Saren/Anderson or about the first contact war/John Grissom.

Bleh.  Whatever though, I don't think I'd pick up another ME game anyway.

New weapons pack out, Squad LMG and duckbilled shotgun are nice touches.  PSA do not end the archives mission using the Asari pistol in the pack, you cannot charge and get off the second shot in time.  The other shotgun and one of the rifles are grenade launchers, the rifle direct impacter the "shotgun" is an area fire weapon.  Dissapointed with the Batarian (charge up) sniper rifle.  AP ammo seems to have no efect on half of the weapons in the pack

The Cerberus Harrier and Geth shotgun still trump all in campaign mode though, but for <$2 the new toys are a nice touch..

Anybody play the Leviathan and Omega DLCs?



I'm downloading them now, so it's alittle late to ask if it's a good idea. But what was your overall impression of them?

I want to play the DLCs, but I can't bring myself to do it after they fucked up ME3 that bad.  I still feel violated.

Have you played Extended Cut? It does a better job of closing than the original



and apparently, the two new DLCs answer alot of questions.



 

Leviathan answers a bunch of questions, Omega ties up Aria's storyline, even fleshes it out some. Omega has a few cool parts to it but mostly, meh. Leviathan was pretty good and answered some questions well. That's the one you want.