Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: The only thing that has me puzzled is how lackluster my pull ups are.  On my previous routine I started out my back workout with pull ups and was able to do 10 per set no problem, now I struggle to get 5 out.  Since I am doing pull ups last, is there a chance that I am just used up?  Should I change the order up in order to get  good sets of pull ups?

You're probably just more challenged than before.  Don't deviate from the order, though.  Try using a lat pulldown station and doing pulldowns up to your 10RM or whatever you feel comfortable with.  Add weight each time just like everything else in the program until you're up to bodyweight.  Then hit the pullup bar.

Mmkay, I'm one more workout from a bench reset at 295.  Right on schedule at the end of 3 weeks, no less.

My DL form has been breaking down too.  I'm going to get right the hell to work on that after today.

How are you going to work your reset?

Originally Posted By mmm_horsemeat: How are you going to work your reset?

On Wednesday, I'm going to give 295 one more try.  If I can't complete all reps (which I haven't managed to the last two times), I'll drop the weight to my original 5RM (282.5) and start over.

March 10th should be just above 300lbs if I don't just stall.

ETA: Interesting note, current body weight is between 162-165

Originally Posted By Bhart89: Is it a typo or are you really supposed to do squats on both "A" and "B" days?  There is no way I can squat that often.  I'm sore for like 4 days minimum after squatting.

The Starting Strength program does call for squats three times per week. However, I've seen Rippetoe mention that the Starting Strength program is designed for teenage athletes looking to put on weight and get stronger.  The Starting Strength program also includes 1 gallon of whole milk daily!   These kids are probably where he's getting the 30-40 pound weight increases.  He's repeatedly stated that older or more advanced trainees might not be able to handle squats 3 times per week.  

I did the program for 10 weeks (at age 38) and was able to do squats 3x/week.  For whatever reason, I backed away from doing the program in a structured and consistent manner and quickly stopped working out altogether.  Now, 1 year later, I've started back up. Yesterday was an intro workout and my squat workset was 95 lbs!!!  It was an easy weight to use but today I'm so sore I can barely stand up!!  One year ago my squat workset was 255 lbs.  

Rows are still going strong, squats are going to slow down in a week or so, but my OH presses probably have until Friday before I submit to a reset the following week.  I could only do 4/4/4 today, which is acceptable, but telling.  A coincidence that my presses are both slowing down?

I just got back from a skiing vacation.  All of the squats (and the weight training since April for that matter) paid of MAJOR dividends.  Not only was I able to ski circles around everyone.  I was able to ski longer per day and I was not sore at all when I woke up the following morning (not counting the bruising from a couple nasty wipe outs), much to the dismay of my wife and our friends.

Squats rock!

Bench gets reset on Monday.  I managed 3/4/3 today.  Deadlift will be a while before a reset because I can downsize the weight increments for a longer period of time.

just got into this forum~ interesting program

I actually start my training with 3x5 setup on Squat, dead, and Clean 3xtimes a week or as I feel it.

Day 1 is at 75% of est 1RM

Day 2:
front squat (about 45% of 1RM back squat)
dead at 65%
hang clean (45% of 1RM clean)

Day 3:
back to 3x5 but at 85%

Then the weekend is either off or Sat is intensive tempo or GS circuit.  That's how I get 3 days a week in with that kind of lifting.

Do you work at a gym AGW?

Originally Posted By Steve_T_M: Do you work at a gym AGW?

Part of my work takes place in one.  I'm part of a strength training cadre that conditions "public service providers" who aren't happy with the current state of training at their respective institutions.

Last night was a good kick in the ass.  I moved up in weights again.  It is weird though, seems like I am improving on just about everything but the bench press.  Hell I did 20lb weighted dips last night no problem 2x8's but struggled to  get 5 reps out of a 155lb bench press.

What is funny is when I do my working sets of squats I always make sure I have someone spotting for me, getting caught in a sticking point doesn't cross my mind and I can put the effort into using good form.  However, at least at my gym asking for a spot must also mean asking for advice.  He was telling me I was going down too far and that I wasn't isolating my quads enough  I did a horrible good morning out of my second to last squat on my last set and he goes "wow that is the best squat I  have seen you do yet"

Another gym day.  My legs still haven't recovered from the trip on Friday night or all of the skiing from the begging part of the week.  Going to do the rest of the routine minus the squats.  My legs are hurting so bad that I barely made it down the stairs.

Back from my workout.

I went ahead and did squats, even though my legs said no.  I just worked out with 25# plates instead of going heavy.  Seemed to help ease the pain.

Shoulder strength has definitely improved.  I also was able to easily bang out 8 pullups on my first set, but crashed and burned in the second with a massive 5 reps.

Time for dinner; tall glass of milk, two huge pork chops, snap peas, bank potato and rice.  I am starving

I've been doing this program for 3 weeks now.   To give some history, I used to be a fat bastard (like 325+ fat 6-7 year ago) and now I'm a skinny bastard (5'10" 145-147lbs morning weight).   Figure I'd try for a trifecta and give it a go at being a strong bastard.   Which isn't to say I've been sitting around - all throughout the weight loss and since I have been lifting to various degrees, but no real set program or goals, which pretty much meant to real progress.   I might have even been known to do a set or two of wrist curls.

Anyway, I'm pretty pleased with the results so far, with all my lifts up at least 10% since I started.   Have a few questions, however:

What would be considered "normal" in regards to proportion of weight lifted?   I.e., I seem much better at certain lifts vs. others.   I've always read that an average active male should be able to bench their BW and do 1.5x BW squat.   Not sure if that is 1RM or what, but at any rate, establishes a rough proportion.    Here's what I'm at for the last completed 3x5 (am up on some in weight, but haven't completed the 3x5)

squat - 185
bench - 150
DL - 240 (1x5)
mil press - 95
bent row - 115
dips - 9,8
pullup - 9,8 w/ +10lbs

I'd say that squat, mil press, and rows are my weak points, but not sure.   DL seems disproportionally heavy.    I believe the large diff between squats and DL are relatively overdeveloped quads - my normal cardio consists of 3+ miles with an 85lb pack 3x a week.   Lots of nice hills on the way, and overall seems to hit my quads more.   I seem to be weaker deep in the squat and don't have much trouble once the quads take over, so glutes/hams probably the weak point here.   I also know I need to work on stretching my hams...

Can anyone perhaps make some observations about the rest based on the limited info provided?   Are any -really- weak, and if so, would it be best to work some additional accessory lifts in?   Recommendations?

Next question is in regards to weight increases.    I'm following the lengthly post on page 1, which is rippetoe's swapping the cleans for the rows.   In it, it says you want to try to increase weight by 2.5% every week.    I'm not quite sure how that goal translates to when you are on an A/B schedule three times a week.   Should one try to increase 2.5% every next workout?   Technically, that is more than one increase a week...

Obviously, some of my lifts are light enough that a 2.5% increase isn't possible - should I assume that when one bumps up the weight, the expectation isn't to always complete the 3x5 during that first workout, especially in these light "problem" areas of mine, like going from say 95->100 like my mil press is currently at?

Originally Posted By rocko: I'd say that squat, mil press, and rows are my weak points, but not sure.   DL seems disproportionally heavy.    I believe the large diff between squats and DL are relatively overdeveloped quads - my normal cardio consists of 3+ miles with an 85lb pack 3x a week.   Lots of nice hills on the way, and overall seems to hit my quads more.   I seem to be weaker deep in the squat and don't have much trouble once the quads take over, so glutes/hams probably the weak point here.   I also know I need to work on stretching my hams...

Your DL is supposed to be bigger than your squat.  How much bigger depends on your development, as you've pointed out.  You're most likely right about your quads being over-developed given the difficulty out of the hole in squats, but that's not good news for you; I'd say it means you're doing something wrong with your DLs if you can attribute the desparity to your quads.

Now, the deadlift is driven by your hips and glutes, where basically nothing on the front of your body is involved.  If you've got form down, just close your eyes and fire your hips up and forward instead of anything else.  See if that doesn't change the mechanics of the lift or the fatigue for you.

I would not consider any of your lifts weak, but I would consider your rows to be behind the curve.  You should be able to row more closely to your bench weight since they are perfectly opposed.  Did you over-develop your chest in the past?  Are you doing actualy pendlay rows or just your best bent over rows?

Originally Posted By rocko: Next question is in regards to weight increases.    I'm following the lengthly post on page 1, which is rippetoe's swapping the cleans for the rows.   In it, it says you want to try to increase weight by 2.5% every week.    I'm not quite sure how that goal translates to when you are on an A/B schedule three times a week.   Should one try to increase 2.5% every next workout?   Technically, that is more than one increase a week...

Are you sure it wasn't an increase of "2.5# per workout"?  That would make more sense.

Ok, today was the official start of Week 5.  I'm pretty much having to slow my progression to the minimum increase per workout increase.  I'm getting decent rest and eating well enough.  

Today was also the big bench reset.  Still felt heavy.  

Originally Posted By AGW: Ok, today was the official start of Week 5.  I'm pretty much having to slow my progression to the minimum increase per workout increase.  I'm getting decent rest and eating well enough.   Today was also the big bench reset.  Still felt heavy.

How long do expect to stay on the Rippetoe program?

Speaking of bench issues, this will be week 3 with no flat BB bench due to shoulder trouble.  Tried decline bench last week, but still had pain - inclilne and overhead pressing is not even remotely feasible.  DB flat bench with a neutral grip feels good though - do you have any good thoughts/sources for rehab ideas (before I completely surrender and go to the dr.)?

Originally Posted By mmm_horsemeat: How long do expect to stay on the Rippetoe program?

I'll stick to it as long as I'm still progressing, I'll stick to it.  I'm thinking another 4-5 weeks following it to a "T", followed by a week of deload and then onto something new.

Originally Posted By mmm_horsemeat: Speaking of bench issues, this will be week 3 with no flat BB bench due to shoulder trouble.  Tried decline bench last week, but still had pain - inclilne and overhead pressing is not even remotely feasible.  DB flat bench with a neutral grip feels good though - do you have any good thoughts/sources for rehab ideas (before I completely surrender and go to the dr.)?

By neutral grip, I'm guessing you mean slightly supine (palms facing in)?  Describe your pain.  How did you hurt it?  Is it in both shoulders?  Any other activity (outside the gym) make it hurt?  Any other details you can think to add.

Yes, palms facing each other.  Pain is in right shoulder only and limits mobility if I try to wrap my arm around my body or reach behind - basically more painful in the horizontal plane than the vertical.  No specific event or injury (that I can recall) has caused it, it's definitely appears to be an aftereffect of lifting.  So far, all I've done is avoid things that really hurt.  However, I would like to be able to bench press again, so I'd be interested in learning as much as I can about rehab.  

Eric Cressey has written some good articles on t-nation on the subject, but I'd like some other viewpoints before doing anything.  Last week marked three years cancer-free for me.  Believe it or not, there have been a few good takeaways from the experience, one of the best being a stern fucking lesson about the limits of confidence you should have in any single medical professional.

Facing a mirror with your shirt off (just like how I'm admiring myself... right... now), are one of your shoulders more developed than the other?

ETA: Do pushups hurt too?

Start of week 3 for me.  Updated 2/27

Squat Progression:
2/11 - 3x5 @ 145*
2/13 - 3x5 @ 160*
2/15 - 1x3 @ 170*
2/18 - 3x5 @ 125
2/21 - 3x5 @ 145
2/25 - 3x5 @ 175
2/27 - 3x5 @ 185 - tweaked my groin a little bit on 2nd set, didn't interfere with last set.

* = Smith machine, didn't have my power rack in yet.  By the end of the first week I was tapped out from muscle fatigue and DOMS in my quads.  I felt pretty good doing 175 tonight, which is great considering I was probably more tired after doing 125 last week.

Bench Progression:
2/13 - 3x5 @ 145*
2/18 - 3x5 @ 145
2/25 - 3x5 @ 155

* = Smith machine, same as above.  Oddly enough, didn't have to reset my bench going from smith to barbell.

Deadlift Progression:
2/11 - 1x5 @ 135
2/18 - 1x5 @ 195
2/25 - 1x5 @ 205

- 205 is either my 5RM or very close to my 5RM right now.  My low back and glutes are major weak points.

Overhead Press "Progression":
eh, I struggled with 95 lbs last week.  I've been doing press 2x a week and bench 1x a week, and I think my overhead has gone from 85 to 90.  90 will be my workout on Wednesday unless it's really easy.  I couldn't manage 3 sets of 5 @ 95 last Thursday (set of 4, set of 3, then dropped down to 75 and did a set of 7).

2/27 - 3x85.  90 was too hard .  Don't know what's going on here, everything else is going up.

Power Cleans:
last workout was 3x5 @ 95, haven't really pushed this one up yet.  95 isn't hard, but I was pretty wiped last week.  Will try 135 Wednesday.

2/27 - 5x3 @ 135 attempted, 2x3@135, 1x2@135 made.  First set good, 2nd set bad, 3rd set ugly.  Gassed out, didn't have enough ummph in my legs to get enough velocity to rack the last rep.

Age: 34
Height: 5'9" at start, still 5'9".
Weight: 168 at start, 175 presently
Diet: 2 meals a day, around half a gallon of milk.  1 soda (down from 6+ sodas a day a few months ago).  Whey isolate protein drink immediately after workout.  Snack on pecans during the day.  Calorie intake is probably a little higher than before when I was drinking sodas (half a gallon of milk after all is 1200+ calories).

I suspect the weight gain isn't all muscle, but a few people have told me I look like I'm losing weight, so it's probably not all fat either.

Background:
When I was 16, I weighed 135# and my 1RM bench was 185 and my 1RM squat (ass to grass) was 245, power clean was 175, so I'm 18 years older, 40 lbs heavier, and quite a bit weaker.  4 years ago I had my bench up to 215 at 165 lbs doing my patented lazy bench workout*, but aside from that I haven't done squats or power cleans since my junior year in high school.  I basically spent the last 3 years riding a desk with very little physical activity.  Got tired of being out of shape.  Realized I was hitting the age where if you don't do something about it, you get in a rut, and start digging, and pretty soon 5 years have gone by and you might be one of those 40 year old guys that drops dead of a heart attack.  I said fuck that.  So I'm gonna do SS for a while until I get to the "intermediate" stage, then probably transition over to crossfit.

I think 245 lbs was a pretty good ass to ground squat for a 135 pound kid

Originally Posted By Steve_T_M: I think 245 lbs was a pretty good ass to ground squat for a 135 pound kid

Ass to grass was an exaggeration, but it was below front parallel.  Our off-season football coaches were pretty damn strict on our max day...had to throw out several other maxes.  Pound for pound, I was pretty strong, my problem was pretty damn light and pretty damn slow.

Originally Posted By AGW: Facing a mirror with your shirt off (just like how I'm admiring myself... right... now), are one of your shoulders more developed than the other? ETA: Do pushups hurt too?

Shoulders appear symmetrical (and glorious).  Pushups are tolerable, but I can definitely feel it.  If I'm standing and raise my right arm in the 2:00 position, I can feel a 'ribbon' of pain that wraps around the outside of the shoulder, starting at about the intersection of the trap & delt and ending where the delt makes a 'point' in the center of the outside, upper arm.

For some reason I have lost weight, I am now down 4# to 171 I don't know how the hell that happened and my wife is pissed because I have been eating extreme amounts of food.


Yesterday; (breakfast) 4 eggs with 1 cup of mozzarella cheese, 3 packets of instant regular oatmeal, 1 banana 11am 1# of lowfat cottage cheese with a peach mixed in 12pm 2 granola bars  1:30pm 1/2 of tuna 3:30pm 1 orange (diner 6:30) taco salad with 1# of deer burger and 5 crushed up taco shells.


AGW, for people who have over developed quads, would a regimen of Romanian DL's help fix the problem, if not how do people with over developed quads help get their hams and glutes in proportion?  I have always wondered if I might be in the category, but every morning following squats and DL's most of my soreness is in my hams, glutes and hip flexors.

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: AGW, for people who have over developed quads, would a regimen of Romanian DL's help fix the problem, if not how do people with over developed quads help get their hams and glutes in proportion?  I have always wondered if I might be in the category, but every morning following squats and DL's most of my soreness is in my hams, glutes and hip flexors.

I would say that, simply, squatting properly will go a longer way towards catching you up than lifts that place heavy emphasis on those muscles.  Your soreness is in the right place after DLs.

Originally Posted By AGW: Your DL is supposed to be bigger than your squat.  How much bigger depends on your development, as you've pointed out.  You're most likely right about your quads being over-developed given the difficulty out of the hole in squats, but that's not good news for you; I'd say it means you're doing something wrong with your DLs if you can attribute the desparity to your quads. Now, the deadlift is driven by your hips and glutes, where basically nothing on the front of your body is involved.  If you've got form down, just close your eyes and fire your hips up and forward instead of anything else.  See if that doesn't change the mechanics of the lift or the fatigue for you.

I probably should have started out by stating I've never had any formal training.   I -think- my form is good, but kinda hard to tell for certain from my perspective, I suppose.   One of these days I'll try to set up a camera so I can evaluate myself.

On the squats, not quite certain what is the problem for sure.    As I briefly mentioned, I know I lack flexibility in my hams and it really requires me to think to keep my heels on the ground when I'm in the hole.   Because of that I feel fairly off balance down low - perhaps I'm "wasting" energy on that vs. simply being able to drive up.

Another "problem" is that I work out alone from home and have a substandard rack - this one www.themuscleshop.co.uk/product/350/marcy_power_10_power_rack.   I don't use clamps so I can just dump the bar to one side, but still kinda scary when I am trying to push myself in squats, so I think I tend not to push myself so hard here, whereas when I DL, I can just concentrate on pulling to my max.   I've been keeping an eye on craigslist for some good deals, but nothing so far.   If not, I guess I'll bite the bullet soon and buy new.  

I would not consider any of your lifts weak, but I would consider your rows to be behind the curve.  You should be able to row more closely to your bench weight since they are perfectly opposed.  Did you over-develop your chest in the past?  Are you doing actualy pendlay rows or just your best bent over rows?

Yeah, I'm doing pendlay rows - as before, difficult to self-evaluate my form w/o a video.   Guilty as charged in somewhat neglecting my back and doing sissy squats previously.

Are you sure it wasn't an increase of "2.5# per workout"?  That would make more sense.

Instructions call for 2.5%:

Every week make it a goal to increase each of your lifts by 2.5%. Meaning if I lifted 100lbs for my Bench Week 1 then Week 2 I would try for 102.5lbs. If I did 200lb Squats Week 1 I would try for 205lbs in Week 2. Sometimes you will be able to do more but don’t mess with your form just to lift more.

2.5lb are my smallest plates, which makes is more difficult to increase at lower weight and still do something resembling a 3x5.  Can't recall seeing anything as light as a 1.25lb olympic weight, but haven't really looked, either.

Originally Posted By rocko: 2.5lb are my smallest plates, which makes is more difficult to increase at lower weight and still do something resembling a 3x5.  Can't recall seeing anything as light as a 1.25lb olympic weight, but haven't really looked, either.

Several solutions:
* the thick metal collars usually weigh 1 lb apiece. that will allow 2 lb increments.

* you can buy fractional plates.  they are expensive, however:
http://www.fractionalplates.com/smart/smart.cgi?command=listitems&pos=0&type=group&group=sets

* you can buy 2 inch washers and tape / glue / weld them together:
http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=12&cs=61&cm=7

* if you can't move up 5 pounds @ 3x5, move up reps at a weight you can hit, or move up weight and reduce your reps.

So far this is what my current 5 rep max's look like

Bench 160
DL     180
Squat 160
Bent row 135
Overhead press 95

Last night was a great.  Noticeable improvement on everything.   I couldn't finish my 3 set of squats though, I tweaked my right groin muscle (something that I have been prone to do).  The most improvement was in the bench, the weight came up well, no sticking.  First noticeable improvement in the bench in about a month.

Starting my 2 day rest period.  Hitting the gym again on Friday.  

Originally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By rocko: 2.5lb are my smallest plates, which makes is more difficult to increase at lower weight and still do something resembling a 3x5.  Can't recall seeing anything as light as a 1.25lb olympic weight, but haven't really looked, either. Several solutions: * the thick metal collars usually weigh 1 lb apiece. that will allow 2 lb increments. * you can buy fractional plates.  they are expensive, however: http://www.fractionalplates.com/smart/smart.cgi?command=listitems&pos=0&type=group&group=sets * you can buy 2 inch washers and tape / glue / weld them together: http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=12&cs=61&cm=7 * if you can't move up 5 pounds @ 3x5, move up reps at a weight you can hit, or move up weight and reduce your reps.

You can also do a google search for 'platemates' - magnetic fractional plates you can use at home or bring with you to the gym.  Weights range from 5/8 - 5 lbs.

Originally Posted By rocko: Another "problem" is that I work out alone from home and have a substandard rack - this one www.themuscleshop.co.uk/product/350/marcy_power_10_power_rack.   I don't use clamps so I can just dump the bar to one side, but still kinda scary when I am trying to push myself in squats, so I think I tend not to push myself so hard here, whereas when I DL, I can just concentrate on pulling to my max.   I've been keeping an eye on craigslist for some good deals, but nothing so far.   If not, I guess I'll bite the bullet soon and buy new.

Your squat rack looks fine as long as you can move the bench out of the way.  I have the Powertec Power Rack, but I don't squat inside it.  I strongly suggest you clamp and if you dump, dump off your back, not from side to side.  If you are squatting heavy weights, you are going to get a ferocious bar whip once the weights drop off one side, with a good chance of either the other side's plates landing on you or getting whacked by a bar with quite a bit of kinetic energy.  

Originally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By rocko: Another "problem" is that I work out alone from home and have a substandard rack - this one www.themuscleshop.co.uk/product/350/marcy_power_10_power_rack.   I don't use clamps so I can just dump the bar to one side, but still kinda scary when I am trying to push myself in squats, so I think I tend not to push myself so hard here, whereas when I DL, I can just concentrate on pulling to my max.   I've been keeping an eye on craigslist for some good deals, but nothing so far.   If not, I guess I'll bite the bullet soon and buy new.   Your squat rack looks fine as long as you can move the bench out of the way.  I have the Powertec Power Rack, but I don't squat inside it. I strongly suggest you clamp and if you dump, dump off your back, not from side to side.  If you are squatting heavy weights, you are going to get a ferocious bar whip once the weights drop off one side, with a good chance of either the other side's plates landing on you or getting whacked by a bar with quite a bit of kinetic energy.

Why don't you squat inside the rack?  It's so easy to set the pins at a height that makes dumping a non-cataclysmic event, I just wonder why you wouldn't use it.

Originally Posted By mmm_horsemeat: Why don't you squat inside the rack?  It's so easy to set the pins at a height that makes dumping a non-cataclysmic event, I just wonder why you wouldn't use it.

Just personal preference.  I'm using bumper plates + I don't want to be confined by the cage if I have to dump.  I have visions of this body part or that body part being caught under a pin and a bar during an unbalanced fall.  

Originally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By mmm_horsemeat: Why don't you squat inside the rack?  It's so easy to set the pins at a height that makes dumping a non-cataclysmic event, I just wonder why you wouldn't use it. Just personal preference.  I'm using bumper plates + I don't want to be confined by the cage if I have to dump.  I have visions of this body part or that body part being caught under a pin and a bar during an unbalanced fall.

That's why there is a cage.  It confines the weight from doing something crazy.  In all my years of being an athlete I have yet to see or myself dump a weight uncontrolled squatting SAFELY.  If you're being safe and using correct form you're either going backward or forwards when squatting.  Not to the sides.  Those safety bars/pins are there for safety.  On heavy squats most likely you'll be close to the bottom of your squat so if you fail the bar only drops a few inches to the pins and doesn't squash you.  All you have to think about is having your hands in close enough so they don't get pinched.

Not to mention if you dump that bar with bumpers plates on it at an angle to the side and those plates hit first, they're most likely going to bounce back at you.  

Originally Posted By 007Kevin: That's why there is a cage.  It confines the weight from doing something crazy.  In all my years of being an athlete I have yet to see or myself dump a weight uncontrolled squatting SAFELY.

Here's an example of a dump off the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg

Keep in mind, I'm working out at home, so the only danger is to myself or material damage.    I think it's more dangerous to the spine to collapse at the bottom of a squat than to dump as illustrated in this video.  Within a cage, you have to worry about getting pinned, outside the cage you don't.

Also, a couple of other notes:
The only time I've ever dumped during squats was when I was going for my 1RM and had a spotter back in high school.  When I work out at home I'm pretty conservative about my reps.  If I get to 4 and I don't know if I can get to 5, I don't do 5.  

Originally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By 007Kevin: That's why there is a cage.  It confines the weight from doing something crazy.  In all my years of being an athlete I have yet to see or myself dump a weight uncontrolled squatting SAFELY. Here's an example of a dump off the back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg Keep in mind, I'm working out at home, so the only danger is to myself or material damage.    I think it's more dangerous to the spine to collapse at the bottom of a squat than to dump as illustrated in this video.  Within a cage, you have to worry about getting pinned, outside the cage you don't. Also, a couple of other notes: The only time I've ever dumped during squats was when I was going for my 1RM and had a spotter back in high school.  When I work out at home I'm pretty conservative about my reps.  If I get to 4 and I don't know if I can get to 5, I don't do 5.

It's not more dangerous to the spine if the pins are set an inch or two below the bottom of your squat.  That's why they call them safety pins.  It's not difficult to dump the weight on a controlled miss, hopefully you don't have to try it when a knee collapses and it becomes an uncontrolled miss.  My internal math tells me that the slight possibility of a pinched finger is better than the slight possibility of a snapped spine.

Originally Posted By Drakich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg

What a boob.

think of what you could do if you could keep your heels on the floor...

Originally Posted By AGW: Originally Posted By Drakich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg What a boob. think of what you could do if you could keep your heels on the floor...

That 4' walkout isn't doing him any favors either.

Just to be clear, that's not me in the video.

Oh I know, I'd have offered to help if I thought it was.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I don't think AGW would have called you a boob if he thought it was you.  He would definitely be thinking it though.

ETA: You're quick on the trigger today!

Originally Posted By Drakich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg

Watch his lower back.

Originally Posted By AGW: Originally Posted By Drakich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg Watch his lower back.

He is boarder line from a good morning isn't he? Too much weight on the toes and not coming up as a single unit?

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: Originally Posted By AGW: Originally Posted By Drakich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg Watch his lower back. He is boarder line from a good morning isn't he? Too much weight on the toes and not coming up as a single unit?

Yeah, he GM's several of those squats, but I think AGW was talking about the dangerous (?) rounding of the low back when he dropped.

Originally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: Originally Posted By AGW: Originally Posted By Drakich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg Watch his lower back. He is boarder line from a good morning isn't he? Too much weight on the toes and not coming up as a single unit? Yeah, he GM's several of those squats, but I think AGW was talking about the dangerous (?) rounding of the low back when he dropped.

Watched it again..........I guess the only time *I* see a rounding is in the very first squat (which I didn't see the first time).

I really have to get someone to video me doing squats and post it here to make sure I am not doing something stupid.

Originally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER: Originally Posted By AGW: Originally Posted By Drakich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsnA3WgFzg Watch his lower back. He is boarder line from a good morning isn't he? Too much weight on the toes and not coming up as a single unit? Yeah, he GM's several of those squats, but I think AGW was talking about the dangerous (?) rounding of the low back when he dropped.

Yeah, not just when he misses though.  You can see his butt tuck under (rounding his low back) atleast once in his first set and a few in his next.

SO this is where you've all been!  Seriously interesting stuff AGW - I'll ask lots of questions Friday at WSB & see what the conscensus is - not that it matters.  I'm looking forward to seeing your gains.  Honestly it's similar in %'s and reps (except we're doing 3 rep maxes) to the workout Matt has put us on till March for a mass bldg phase.  FWIW, I'm gaining weight and STILL breaking PR's.  Good luck guys - I'll be lurking!

If you all really want to feel a back ache, watch this joker.  I can just hear the disks popping out

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDSGZiyG0Ac&feature=related

Originally Posted By GR8TWYT: SO this is where you've all been!  Seriously interesting stuff AGW - I'll ask lots of questions Friday at WSB & see what the conscensus is - not that it matters.  I'm looking forward to seeing your gains.  Honestly it's similar in %'s and reps (except we're doing 3 rep maxes) to the workout Matt has put us on till March for a mass bldg phase.  FWIW, I'm gaining weight and STILL breaking PR's.  Good luck guys - I'll be lurking!

What do you weigh these days?  Last time I remember you posting it, I think we were both about the same at 211.  That was before your bulking/bloating/force feeding phase though, so you probably dwarf your former self now...