Posted: 5/2/2004 8:51:04 PM EDT
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What do you guys think of Ju-Jitsu as a art? I dont mean the brazilian style, and I dont mean the family group defense watered down version. I mean the bone breaking style. And if your not fond of it, give me a better style that is just as harsh. Please some one help me decide on a style to start. Please nothing too soft, if I wanted that I'd take akido. But I am looking for a good hard style not only for defense but also one that would lay an opponent out. Any help would be great, thanks. |
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Go and watch some workouts - they'll be more than happy to let you watch. That's the best way to see if what they do is suited for you. Relson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in Austin (forums): www.austinjj.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2 Also check out William Vandry's school. |
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Go watch the instructor, the styles vary greatly from what little I know. I took, well I don't remember whether he called it ju jitsu or aikido ,for a short time. it was pretty brutal, lots of focus on limb breaking and strangely he did TONS of weapon training, mostly sticks. The instructor was something else, I think he had been in prison for manslaughter so he turned to this stuff to "find his peace" he ran across some crack dealers setting up shop on the side street where his school was with a bunch of little shops, stationary stores and so on. The cops I knew said he asked them to leave and when they didn't he attacked two of them and the third ran. The two he got ahold of were hurt fairly badly (though I don't remember exactly) and actually tried to press charges, the cops laughed at them. Too bad I wasn't in that area very long. I have never been much good at grappling, throwing type stuff in any event. |
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You might want to look into Danzan-ryu jiu-jitsu, if you can find it. Basically, the throws, limb-locks and joint-locks of "traditional" Japanese jiu-jitsu along with the hard strikes and kicks from Okinawan karate. I'm starting to learn just a little bit about it myself but: 1) can't find too many schools and 2) have heard you can get a wide range of hard vs. soft philosophies. It's damned hard to separate useful information from all the mystic, ooga-booga marketing crap at times. Of course, if you just want "harsh", look for old-school combat judo or WW2 combative stuff (authoritatively spoken by the guy with zero experience  ). Edited to add: If BJJ's the closest thing to you, there's a ton of useful stuff to learn from them. Just because the "taught" technique ends in an arm-bar/submission on the ground doesn't mean you can't choose to stay standing and stomp the crap out of his clavicle and neck instead. Keep what is useful and all that.... |
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I've been training in BJJ for five months and I have found it to be very effective. From my past experiences I personally don't think that small joint manipulation (akido, alot of Japanese Jiu Jitsu but my knowlege is limmited) is as practical as manipulating larger joints and chokes. Watch the first 10 UFC's and see how many small joint techniqes you see. The essence of BJJ is gaining a dominant position which allows you to control a fight and finish it. As some here will tell you I'm one of the biggest martial arts bashers around but I do respect a few as worth while arts for fighting those being BJJ, Japanese JJ (Pride shows off some very impressive fighters), Thai boxing, and "Street Science"  (Western/American Boxing). I am not an expert! |
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If you are a kicker/puncher, you had better knock out a good BJJ guy with your first punch or kick, cause if they get you on the ground and you don't have any ground skills, they'll take you apart joint by joint and when there are no joints left to take apart, they'll just choke you out and be done with you (that's if they don't just choke you out right away). The dojo I go to teaches all the traditional joint locks and throws with a street fighting mentality. Pinching is ok, biting is ok as long as you don't brake the skin - stuff like that. No eye gouging and no "intentional" strikes to the head, but I have yet to not come out of a workout without some kind of knot, abrasion or bruise on my head or face. We also train in all forms of striking and some strike defenses - mostly we learn how to take the hit, but soften it up a bit with whatever means is available. We get a touch of aikido as well - learn to use opponents momentum against them and stuff like that. Basically if you intend to make use of any martial art as a "survival tool", it is best to mix it up a little. Being a kicker/pucher has its use, but like it was said earlier, most fist fights end up on the ground and at that point you had better have some ground skills - or it's light out. |
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Take a look at Krav Maga. Its a striking system, but we do alot of ground fighting, joint locks..etc It takes the most effective part of different systems. We spend alot of time doing real world defenses, guns, knives, bats multiple people. I have found it very easy to learn and alot of fun |
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Bag_Man, you can check these forums out too, but some of these guys are hard-core... www.txmma.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4 |
| Bagman-Best of luck in your search for a martial arts style/school, but don't discount Aikido so readily. It can definitely appear choreographed and very soft/gentle, but a lot of that is to protect your partner from serious injury..its kinda hard to practice aikido if you wipe out your training partners! Anyway, there is more than 1 style of Aikido, and it can be DEVASTATING, but proper safety in training is esential. Again, good luck in your endeavors! |
SUPER WRONG!! If you have any quetsions about what is the best fighting style watch ALL the Ultimate Fighting Championships!!! That will show you why every body does BJJ now, including myself and Special Forces. I was offended that you presumed it is "soft." The truth is when I lived in San Diego a buddy and me were followed to my house by a couple of Asian assholes. Long story short, my buddy got one who was about 5'4 and 120 lbs, and I ended up with the big one who was approximately 5'10 and 200lbs, fat he was but still...The big one threw one huge right hook and I ducked and came up with my left hand on the back of his right shoulder (just like in training) and pushed him, making him spin and instantly had him in choke. "Choke,"often is used but seldom understood, again watch UFC and you will see what chokes really are. If done right they are IMPOSSIBLE to get out of. Anyway shortly after I had the guy, we ended up on the ground (I was still holding choke) threw my hooks (legs) over his pelvis and in no time he went limp. If I did not recieve such disiplined training I could have killed the guy. But I let go...true story and proof BJJ is real shit, not bullshit like Karate or Taekwondo...I won with a KO and no punches in probably 7-15 seconds!! Although it happened so fast it felt like the whole ordeal was hours long. Watch UFC and LEARN!!! |
You're right so learn BJJ to win!!! |
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BJJ is good, I trained a guy that had sudied with Rorion, he was good on the ground, but had trouble getting them there. He also had no weapon or striking defenses. The term Juijitsu is like Karate, Generic term. If you go to an old Book of Judo, you will see Blocking , Punching and kicking. There was a Shotkan influence in Judo. My style came under the Juijitsu term from a friend, who is the Soke of a style, Mine is a modernized mix of throwing, Goju ryu, Filipino, and JKD. My style is based in a reality setting, yet still has a history to the Japanese arts. Each art has had an evolution as it matured. As for the best art? it is what is available, to you to learn, the mindset of the sensei, I do not train for tournaments.....my students would get disqualified, since they would be grabbing, hitting and throwing... they know that. But all of them ahve had run ins with bullies and walked away. Any art is 90% attitude and 10% technique...it all depends on where your attitude is. |
| Hello everyone. I am new to this site so I hope I am not stepping on anyone's toes. Everybody seems to be discussing Brazillian Jui-Jitsu as the only option. I have personally been studying martial arts for about 20 years and I have been instructing for about 12. While BJJ is a great art, I suggest (and yes, this is coming from a martial artist) that the best thing to do is to focus on modern defense. What I mean by that is you MUST consider firearms and edged weapons as an integral part of any combat system. Also, because a fight is so dynamic, you must also study all of your bases. This should include striking/parrying, grappling, throwing, and groundfighting. And please do not fall into the mindset that a groundfighter is the ultimate fighter, cause while your getting all fancy on the ground your assailints budy is teeing off on the side of your head. Be well rounded and focus on ending the fight quickly and brutally. Also, remember that all the techniques in the world won't do squat unless you know and understand how the human body works. Hope I did not offend anyone. Keep studying. |
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Watching all the old UFCs will show you that BJJ is the best. Watch the new ones and you'll see people getting knocked out with punches and kicks too. The only reason BJJ was so good in the old UFCs, is because no one understood its techniques. Now everyone knows submissions and its not undefeatable. Really, watch some of the new ones and youll believe me. Flashlegs |
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Ok, Bag_man, if you are in the Austin area, check out www.Austinjj.com. Taught by Phil Cardella, who's a brown belt in BJJ, but he's damn good. Also, there are people there who are more than willing to spar full contact (kicks, strikes, takedowns, and submissions), and short of fighting on broken glass, you aren't going to get more hardcore than that. Avoid like the plague anything that doesn't have people fighting back or uses point sparring. A fight's over when the other guy quits or can't continue to fight, and that's the way you should practice fights. In BJJ, even when just rolling in class, it's over when you tap out or you get choked out. BJJ by no means is soft. Matter of fact, check your pride at the door, because you will probably get owned for a while. |
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Like the gentlemen above, I too have been in this for over 20 years, I am a BJJ,muay thai, and kali guy. That is where my bias lies for a variety of reasons. None the less, the MOST important thing that you could possibly do is figure out what YOU want to learn, and how you want to fight. No one can tell you what the best art is, because there isn't one. It is an extremely individual choice. I personally have stuck with BJJ, thai, and kali, because I enjoy the extreme physical training; and I believe it to be the most practical combination of arts for the real world, and in competition. A good MMA school SHOULD have NO PROBLEM teaching you striking and grappling. I am a partner in three scohols, one in the state, Brazil and South Africa. We also teach firearms and blades naturally because we've found that LEO's respond very well to our training because of its practicality. Whoever told you, or whoever you say in a BJJ class that made it look soft, or just like "wrestling" was no good. BJJ is a brutal art, and by no means out of date, in any way shape or form. It is an evolving art, unlike many others that rely on things that worked hundreds and thousands of years ago. Muay thai is just flat out, tough training. In a good school for BJJ or thai, the physical training is absolutely brutal. The only assertion that I would insist on is that if you go to a school and one of the instructors is obese or a teen ager, leave. We've gone into a few karate schools in the Atlanta area that were interested in introducing BJJ to supplement their karate, and not one of the students in the school was able to make it all the way through a very light, and simple conditioning, and warm up session. The conditioned fighter wins! BTW, DO NOT discount wrestling training!!!! I defy anyone that does to go and try the conditioning drills, and then work take downs! We incorporate wrestling into our training because it is the best way to get someone to the ground, if that is where you want them. If you think that BJJ for self defense isnt real, then agian, you've not been to a good school! |