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Posted: 3/22/2003 4:50:45 PM EDT
Ok, here's the deal. Friend of mine here in law school & I have been working out 3 times a week for three months now, first time in my life I've done any regular, consistent excercise. Gone from struggling to bench the bar to benching 85, which I'm pretty proud of so far, considering. Not that I have any delusions of actual strength, but I'm making progress etc. and surprising myself by actually sticking to an excercise program for this long. We've decided we want to continue this over the summer, as we'll both be here doing summer programs. However, we've also decided we want to expand things by taking a martial art of some kind. Initially, friend wanted to do boxing, but I have no desire to do that, as it would require too much upper body strength that I don't have. Right now, we're thinking either Aikido or Tae Kwon Do, because both of those have on-campus clubs that operate (free!) during the school year. However, I figured it would be a good idea to ask here for general advice on choosing a martial art. I'm 6'3", 155. My arms are about an inch short for my height, and my upper-body strength is relatively low, as above. Looking for something I can do that will train whole-body fitness, is not too reliant on physical strength, and teach me how to "totally flip out and kill people," i.e., I want to be able to fight people if I have to, and win.
Link Posted: 3/23/2003 3:57:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2003 4:05:29 AM EDT by jimmybcool]
Originally Posted By AnotherPundit: and teach me how to "totally flip out and kill people," i.e., I want to be able to fight people if I have to, and win.
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Dude. Say no more. You is a Ninja in the making. Ninjas are SWEET. Facts: 1. Ninjas are mammals. 2. Ninjas fight ALL the time. 3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people. [url]http://www.msu.edu/~couilla3/ninja/ninja2.htm[/url] Sorry. Inside joke. I'll throw my two cents in on your real question. People can talk about styles and systems all day long. What it all comes down to is sticking to it for the long term. And sticking to it usually has a high factor of getting along with the instructor. If the instructor and you share mindset, style isn't that important. Course, I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 3/23/2003 7:29:26 AM EDT
I think at this point in your martial arts career you will get some benefit from any martial art that you study. Since they are offered for free at your school, I'd attend some TKD classes and Aikido classes to see which you like the best. While both can be effective, I understand that Aikido takes a very long time to be proficient at. Most of the TKD schools in my area anyway gear towards tournament fighting, although I'm not saying the techniques you learn can't be effective in the street. If you want to be able to "totally flip out and kill people" and learn how to do it in a short period of time, I would recommend Krav Maga if they teach that in your area. It is the 4th martial art that I have studied over the years and I've found it to be very effective.
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 5:47:45 PM EDT
OK Start with TKD, but remember it is a sport how. Some Aikido is good, you do not have you commit to any one art. I have studied several to develop my fighting skills. When you get your muscle up try judo or juijitsu.
Link Posted: 3/28/2003 8:52:50 PM EDT
Jujitsu is the MOST practical martial art there is. It is boxing mixed with grappling(wrestling with choking....) almost all real fights go to the ground. better be able to fight on the ground.
Link Posted: 3/30/2003 12:07:08 PM EDT
Check out Jim Grover aka Kelly McCann and his videos. Down and dirty Marine Corps WWII type stuff. Very simple and very effective.
Link Posted: 4/13/2003 7:14:20 PM EDT
Martial Arts are a total waste of time and money unless you are just wanting to take up a hobbie. The only exception I will make is for Martial Arts that teach blades or sticks or grappling (ground fighting,wrestling). I have "earned" or bought(DEPENDING ON HOW YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT) a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and I have grappled. I have also been a few fights with "Marital Artist" and "untrained fighters and I didn't use any martial art skill except for using the grappling enough to get the guy down so that I could punch him until I got tired. One guy mentioned McCann's videos...they are good, I have them. He teaches tactics to hurt people and not to square off and out duke him or try some stupid tactic that requires the other guy to let you do it to him. Heres a tip! Carry REALLY HOT pepper spray and use it. Put a folding knife in your pocket so that if he sits on top of you(IT HAPPENS OFTEN) you can stick him in the ass with it and make him get up. If the guy wants to go further shoot him. I don't fight anymore I defend myself.
Link Posted: 4/16/2003 7:40:45 AM EDT
First thing you need to learn is that you don't study a martial art so that you can "flip out and kill someone." If thats your goal, buy a gun, it takes a lot less time and effort to become proficient at killing with a firearm than with your hands or feet. I'll echo some of the previous replies that since both Aikido and Tae Kwon Do are free at your school, go to a few classes of each and see which one you like. Quality of instruction matters more than the style. Its been my experience having studied both that its usually a lot harder to find a good Aikido school than a good Tae Kwon Do school. Because Aikido techniques require a lot more technical precision to execute effectively, it not only takes longer to learn how to effectively defend oneself, it is also much harder to teach correctly. As a result, most Aikido clubs that I've seen in the US (Japan is a whole other story) are more an exercise in hippy dancing ("feel the love, this is non-violent self defense) than an effective form of self defense. Most Tae Kwon Do schools these days focus almost entirely on tournament sparring. Thats fine if you want to compete in a sport and get healthy, but a lot of tournament style TKD fighting teaches bad habits (e.g. not keeping one's hands up to protect from punches because you can't punch to the head in tournaments). Most TKD schools will get you into good shape, and will work on developing your upper body as well as your legs. With your build, you have the potential to be an excellent tournament fighter. TKD tournaments have weight categories, so being tall and light is an advantage. Some TKD schools still focus on the fundementals and teach TKD as a form of self defense first and as a sport second, but these schools are getting hard to find.
Link Posted: 4/19/2003 9:02:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2003 3:37:01 PM EDT by AZSherman1]
Go to GRACIEACADEMY.com and order the "Gracie Jiu Jitsu in Action" 2 video set. You will quickly see how all other Martial Arts are worthless. And yes, I took "Kenpo" Judo, and TKD and so much other shit from long-haired ponytailed "sifus" who spent 10 years in the mountains of China "studying" it makes me sick. Watch how the Gracies kick the shit out of all these "Artists" during their Saturday "Challenge" matches!! In fact, my Judo instructor from Scottsdale was the guy who Ken Shamrock kicked the shit out of in one of the UFC's. (Chris Lenninger) There is a reason "no holds barred" is not allowed at "Kata" and "Kumite" competitions. Go to their website. Remember-none of the Gracie family weighs more than 180 or 190 lbs. And they have just dominated the game.
Link Posted: 4/22/2003 11:48:32 AM EDT
My two cents say that overlooking Western boxing may be a mistake. It very effectively and rapidly teaches the fundamentals of unarmed combat. Balance, timing, footwork and rudimentary things such as how to "slip" a punch are covered in great detail very early on. An excellent beginning, and there are boxing clubs EVERYWHERE. Very inexpensive, fun and an incredible workout. As far as lacking sufficient strength, ALL "martial" arts are going to require a significant amount of strength, so definitely don't allow that to be a limiting factor. The strength will come with time, regardless of what discipline you choose to partake in. Opinions in this arena are widely varied, but I will go ahead and share mine anyway... ;) Ground fighting/Grappling techniques (Greco Roman wrestling, JuJitsu and variants) are excellent in one on one encounters (i.e. your adversary doesn't have a bunch of buddies waiting to kick you in the head as you roll around on the ground.) Those particular methods of fighting require a high degree of strength and endurance (for the ground portion) as well as incredible timing (for the stand up portion). Both are doable, but VERY time consuming. IMHO, the amount of time that would need to be devoted to physical conditioning and practice may be a bit prohibitive...especially for the hobbyist. In my experience, MOST Eastern fighting styles tend to be overly rigid, inflexible and complicated. Things like Tae Kwon Do and Karate (and their numerous variants) were all designed to train armies in general combative principles. In that regard, they are very effective at training large numbers of people at once in small areas with little or no equipment, but not necessarily the best at showing you how to "totally flip out and kill people". Some notable exceptions are Thai boxing and a fairly loose system from the Phillipines known as Arnis/Escrima/Kali (depending on who you talk to), which are relatively hard to find competent instruction in, but are nonetheless fairly effective. I have studied all of these systems to one degree or another, and have found the unifying principle in preparing for unarmed combat to be simplicity in execution and ease of training. Unless you want to devote a significant portion of your life to physical conditioning and training (seriously, think two to three hours a DAY), most martial arts will never really get you to the point of being a major ass kicker. I like Western boxing as a starting point because it gives you excellent FUNDAMENTALS, but can still be pursued at the hobby level. Bear in mind, there are HUGE drawbacks (like not using legs, knees and elbows...oh yeah and not protecting the groin), but if you have sound fundamentals, you'll usually do ok. Once you become fairly proficient at boxing, you can augment it with some leg work (I would suggest Muay Thai for it's simplicity, they only really use two kicks). As your conditioning and timing progress, perhaps incorporate some Greco Roman wrestling, and in a couple of years you will be in excellent shape and a well rounded fighter. The same two years spent on Aikido or Tae Kwon Do will probably give you some colored belts, a false sense of security and maybe a trophy of two. As my Kali instructor used to say, "You want some belts and trophies...Gimme ten bucks, I'll be right back." Ok, I'm done...
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 2:15:28 AM EDT
Find a copy of the book "Kill or Get Killed" by Rex Applegate. This is the down and dirty stuff tought to Commandos and OSS agents during WW2 authored by the guy who tought them. I have heard that it has recently been reprinted by the US Marines for use as their hand-to-hand combat manuel. It also has sections on knife fighting, combat shooting, disarming, etc. Semper Fi
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 3:19:15 AM EDT
letsgetiton posted: "Jujitsu is the MOST practical martial art there is. It is boxing mixed with grappling(wrestling with choking....) almost all real fights go to the ground. better be able to fight on the ground."
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I agree with letsgetiton. Jujitsu. I wrestled in High School. Made 1st Dan Black Belt in TKD. TKD, too much high kicking to be practical for the real thing. I spent eight years with the Wash.DC police department and during that time I took Jujitsu. Excellent... helped with a lot of arrests on BG's.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 7:18:06 PM EDT
If you want to win. If you want to live. Go to www.scars.com. It works, no BS.
Link Posted: 4/27/2003 7:22:55 PM EDT
Jujitsu....I agree if you can't fight on the ground you can't fight but for me ground fighting is something you do because you have to ( you get knocked down or triped or tackled). Now you are on the ground and you are applying this really cool submission hold on some guy but if he has any friends there what are they doing??? Standing there and checking out your ground skills or are they kicking you in the ribs and in the back of the head???? I've seen drunks jump into fights where they don't even know either guy in the fight. Fight on your feet, fight on the ground if you have to, always fight with a weapon and only fight without one while you are trying to get to one. I too think that western boxing is very good for self-defence but I think that this system requires and dependes on physical conditioning. What makes wrestlers and boxers super bad asses are their conditioning.
Link Posted: 4/28/2003 1:33:38 AM EDT
Two words...Krav Maga. If you want to learn how to fight Krav is the way. It is very physical and you will probably get beat up worse in class than you ever will in a real fight.
Link Posted: 4/28/2003 6:49:26 PM EDT
my friend, do not buy a book or a video about fighting. How did you learn how to drive? did you read about it, watch it on a video or did you get behind the wheel and drive the damn car! It seems to me that most (not all) people who want to trash a traditional martial art probably never had the dedication, drive and intestinal fortitude to get their black belt. I know Tae Kwon Do. That is it. I never have trained in any other art. Since I have been in TKD my confidence level is very high. Confidence not only in the ability to protect my self buy also confidence in everyday things as well. Now the TKD you practice is only as good as your instructor. And unfortunately a lot of it is money driven. You should be able to get at least one free lesson, try it out, try lots of them out until you find the art and the instructor you will be comfortable with.
Link Posted: 4/28/2003 8:37:13 PM EDT
It's interesting to see all the replys. I've studied for the last eight years, four in TKD, two in Judo/Shotokan, and two in kick boxing. I have to say that from a defensive prespective I liked Judo and Karate equally, TKD was fun but not too practicle, and kick boxing will get you conditioned to take and give lots of hard hits, but it is a sport just like boxing and as such has rules that become engrained and put you at a disadvantage on the street. You are taking the right steps in training both physically and martially;I would venture to say that many here couldn't run three miles or bench 185 let alone fist fight their way out of a bar. It's true that 80% of one on one fights go to the ground, however how much of the population is trained? I would venture to say that it is that 20% that don't go to the ground that started tangling with some one who studied. Even in Judo you don't want to be on the ground, you want the guy that you just threw to be on the ground! Remember this if its two on you its important to be able to fight standing otherwise you'll be wrestling with one while his buddy kicks in your rib cage. Here is the real deal from a real practitioner. These are words of wisdom for everyone to live by so pay close attention! It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you do it better than the other guys do whatever it is they do. Each style focuses on a fighting philosophy i.e. game plan. Find an art whose game plan suits you kinetically and ideologically. TKD tries to creat distance (good because your tall) and then fight the opponent on the outside of that distance while keeping him from coming inside (which means that you have to hit him hard enough with each technique to stop him, not an easy thing to do). Karate focuses on that middle distance, it is aggresive quick and brutal with techniques like eye gouges, nut grabbing and knee kicking. Judo focuses on the closest distance, creating an imbalance in your opponenet that allows you to throw or trip him, then choke him or break him. Aikido's philosophy is one that suggests you accept your opponents momentum, re direct it and cause him to fall through joint manipulation or trips, gracie jujitsu is good for one on one confrontations but they loose their ass when attacked by more than one guy. Kenpo is focused on hitting a guys soft targets with fast combinations, they like to be in close. Good old boxing focuses on that medial distance and is very effective after a few months, but looses out because of rules. However I have very little doubt that any one here could get into a non-firearm related fight with a proffesional cruiser weight fighter and win. This is a very basic sketch of the more popular arts, ask anyone who practices them and they will say that I speak the truth, though each is has much more to offer. Remeber pick one that seems to fit your personal mantality/natural reactions, then stick with it. Find an instructor who has a broken nose, and a club where the students limp away after each practice because of the bruises, then you will have found a fighting school, with a fighting instructor in your particular style, he will be best equiped to teach you because he has been there himself. As far as applying your art of choice and winning there are a few things that real fighters have, personal attributes that will help you train and win, philosophies if you will, for survivors: be mentally tougher than the other guy, never accept defeat (once I was loosing and bit a chunck out of a guys foot, he let go and I kicked his ass), I will hit him harder and more often in more sensitive places then he hits me and I'm not playing, this is not a game, when I fight someone is going to die or end up in the hospital because I don't fight for stupid reasons, I don't fight for things that aren't worth dying for. All that said, good luck. There are a lot of crappy teachers out there, go with your first impressions.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 4:57:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2003 5:30:08 PM EDT by TEA]
Infantryman has it right. Books and videos are BS unless they're used to supplement what you learn from a qualified instructor. Books and videos don't try and hit or throw you, so you don't learn timing and distance. Books and videos don't tell you when your doing the technique wrong. Doing any technique repitively builds up muscle memory. Doing a technique wrong will build up muscle memory of a bad habit that'll be hard to break. Here's an example thats kind of long. Modern TKD (i.e. tournament oriented) doesn't stress keeping your hads up to cover your head because you don't have to worry about being punched in the head. Old style TKD emphasized keeping your hands up (at least in the Ji Do Kwan and later Sung Moo Kwan styles I learned). My first instructor, back when the WTF was still developing its modern tournament rules, taught very traditional TKD. In addition to placing much more emphasis on learning proper stances than most TKD schools do today (remember muscle memory? guess what one of the first things to go out the window is during a high stress situation? If you ain't in a good solid stance, you will end up on the ground, and then you better know how to grapple), he also emphasized keeping your hands up (we could and did punch to the head, in addition to using sweeps and some throws) and would make us do knuckle pushups everytime we dropped our hands to leave our head open. My second instructor (Sung Moo Kwan) emphasized the same basics, but would smack you with a bamboo sword on the head if you dropped your hands and on the thighs if you weren't in a good stance, or he'd just sweep you to get the point across. Well, I never was much into tournaments, and I'm too old (and heavy) for it now, so I've been wanting to get back into more traditional "old school" sparring. One of the other black belts at the school where I currently train/teach is of like mind, although quite a bit younger than me. Because he started training quite a bit later than I (he's a higher rank, though, because I've taken a few years off here and there to study other martial arts and he's stuck with TKD) his sparring style is based on WTF style tournament sparring. Consequently, even though he's got quite a bit of reach on me (5'8" vs 6'), now that we've started punching to the head, he keeps finding himself getting clocked in the head because he keeps his hands too low. Because he bounces when he's in his fighting stance and keeps his center of gravity relatively high (makes it easier to delivery quick kicks) he is also much more vulnerable to sweeps and throws. He's now finding that years of muscle memory are hard to overcome, even if you know that you need to change your style to meet new circumstances. I'll stick with what I posted before and reiterate it for emphasis - the quality of instruction and the dedication of the student is much more important than the style you learn. Watch a couple of lessons to see how the classes are taught. Important questions to consider. What is the ratio of instructors to students? Do the instructors semm more interested in teaching the students or in showing how good they are? Do they focus on learning basics or do you see them trying to teach many complicated techniques to low level students? Does the intensity of the class in terms of physical conditioning and violence in the class seem appropriate to you (as opposed to either "psycho-Bob or "Phil the Slug")?
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 8:09:48 PM EDT
may be I am confused but in your TKD tournaments don't you guys kick to the head? In our tournaments we can kick to the head therefore you better have your hands up to block any kicks to the head. Sparring in a tournament maybe isn't a real life street fight but it is probably as close as you can get. You are actually fighting someone who is also trained to fight. In my dojang we train more for actual self defense instead of tournaments. I would have liked to have attended class with the man with the bamboo sword. He sound intense!
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 5:40:43 PM EDT
Yes you can kick to the head in TKD tournaments. Actually, the fastest way to win is to knock out your opponent. Saves your energy up for the next match. It is virtually impossible to land a first strike kick to the head, so most competitors keep their hands down between melees. Once one competitor goes on the offensive, the hands come up. This may save some energy, which is a good thing if you can't knock your opponent out and have to got the full two two minute rounds (three two minute rounds or two three minute rounds most quarterfinals, though I had to go three three minute rounds in the finals at one tournament [xx)]), but a very bad habit in situations where people punch to the head. When locked up close, you'll actually see competitors keep there arms out at a 45* angle down in front and to the sides. This is not to avoid being called for holding, but is to prevent your opponent from bringing his leg up for an axe kick or crescent kick to the head, since it keeps the hands right where his knee need to go to execute the kick. In real life or in sparring where you can use punches to the head or throws, this technique leaves you wide open to all sorts of nasty things. As for Master Yu, the bamboo sword wielding instructor in Houston, he was in the Tiger Brigade (ROK SF) in Vietnam and was in charge of teaching TKD to the ROK Army afterward (until he got on the wrong side of the powers that be following Park Chung-hee's 2nd coup), so when he'd shout his favorite correction at you, "You do that, you DIE!", you knew that he knew what he was talking about.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:34:40 PM EDT
I see you are in South Carolina. There is an EXCELLENT ju-jitsu instructor in Lexington. I have worked with well over a dozen different ju-jitsu instructors and this guy is among my top 3. Go out to the dojo and watch a couple classes if he's in your area, or even if he's not! As for one guy's comment that ju-jitsu isn't too useful for multiple opponents, if you can bust someone's elbow, peel the patella (kneecap) off his leg, or bust his wrist or ankle, it would probably give his "buddies" some pause, yes? Especially if you can do it in under a second. Elbows are scary at how easily they can break. Everybody is going to be at "home" in a different martial art or with a different instructor, but go check out this guy: Palmetto Jujitsu Academy & Healing Arts Center Sensei Tom Ryan 372 Riverchase Way Lexington, SC - 29072 803-791-0764 Tom Ryan also maintains the "combative" mindset, and doesn't try to make a martial art into some sort of elaborate dance the way some other teachers do (in various martial arts). Oh, and ju-jitsu doesn't necesarrily require lots of strength. I have had sub-100 lb. females throw me and bind up my arm so if they pressed it much more, my wrist would have been trashed.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 1:29:15 PM EDT
It's called "hide the new gun from the wife." Oops sorry, I thought it said [i]marital art[/i]. [8D]
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 9:31:59 PM EDT
Name of the game...Hurt them as bad as possible as fast as possible. You see it is going to blows, the sucker punch is a real show stopper.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 9:41:56 PM EDT
I second ddubbs advice on this thread. Thai boxing if you can. Western boxing exc. for fundementals ( you can break the rules on the street). I would guess that if you can find Thai boxing that you could get supplemental instruction on grappling and stick fighting (Kali) at the same gym. I know first hand Thai boxing can be devastating on the street, but like my Dad always told me..."You cant lose a fight you were never in." Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:31:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By letsgetiton: Jujitsu is the MOST practical martial art there is. It is boxing mixed with grappling(wrestling with choking....) almost all real fights go to the ground. better be able to fight on the ground.
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This is good advice! Had a friend who was brown belt in TKD and won alot of trophies. I could take him any day of the day week. TKD couldn't handle anything in your face like wrestling. Shok
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:47:06 PM EDT
I'm a big fan of ground fighting but I know a local jujitsu teacher who got into a fight with a brawler. Somehow the teacher ended up on the ground with the brawler in the mount. The instructor thinks "no problem, I'll just elevator him, and I'll be in his guard where I can work on him" but Murphy was hanging out enjoying the action and when our teacher went to elevator the brawler he found out that cowboy boot don't get much traction on black top. He was unable to get out of the mount and got wore out. Suprise! Always with weapon!
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 7:11:39 PM EDT
I study Yoshin Ryu Ju Jitsu and Judo (sport Ju Jitsu)and use it all the time at work. In the real world do whatever you can to stay off the ground. One guy is fine but when his buddy puts the boots to you it may be over. Learn to know pre assault indicators like seeing all the white around the eyes and clinched fists. Hit first and end the fight. Do not try to pace a fight.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 5:44:43 AM EDT
Hand to hand combat is my number one specialty/hobby if there is anyone in the Houston are who would like to spar in a no holds barred fight please let me know as its quite hard to find guys to spar with around here. I have been trining in martial arts for almost 20 years. I have a black belt in TKD, do golden gloves boxing, studied MT Kick boxing, jujitsu and have been in lots of fights both in various rings and in the street. I will give you the low down on what works and what does not. I have learned enough and adapted it to the point I have my own system of fighting that is a combination of other systems and am quite proud of it. Every system has good and bad points but certain systems work better than others. The main thing you need to do it GET BIGGER. Stronger, heavier and faster is always better no matter what. When I was 15 I benched the bar like you did. 85 was my max. I worked up to 275 for 13 reps. I am actually fast and not strong as I have smaller frineds who do much more weight but throw slower punches. You need to eat like a mad man and LIFT HEAVY. Your going to need several years of that but remeber the first Ultimate Fighting Championships were won by the smallest guy in the competition and there were no weight classes. First off dont try anything that is complicated. Fighting is sloppy, unpredictable and fast paced. Any type of martial art where you train on non resisting opponents or than does not stress sparring should be ruled out. ALL FIGHTS START ON YOUR FEET, MOST END ON THE GROUND. This is a motto to live by. Train to be good on your feet first and foremost but never neglect the ability to fight on the ground. I have found through YEARS of training that kicking above the waist is useless in a streetfight. If you wanna learn to be like Van Damme go try ballet. The only kicks you should use are to the opponents legs or to the abdomen. Never throw more than 2 kicks in a fight. Kicks will make him spread his defense for kicks and punches and opens him up to what really works PUNCHING HIM UNCONCIOUS. Low kicks are covered in kickboxing and boxing is the best way to learn to punch. Avoid mexican gyms as they have/teach a more machismo plodding stand in front of the other guy style. Go to a gym that focuses on sparring and not bag work. Heavy bag work will hurt your tendons and you will be going to the doc for prednisone dose packs if you dont lay off the heavy bag. Most of your punching power is in how you throw a punch not your bench pressing strength. After you move inside most of the time you will be pounding the guy in the face (avoid body shots, head hunt only, aim for the jaw) and you will either close too close or he will lunge in and grab you which is natural human instinct. At this point you enter the clinch. Grab the back of his neck and hold it under your chin and get your legs back far enough he cant grab them. He is at your mercy at this point. Elbows to the face/back of neck and knees to the head and ribs work great here. His only option is to take you to the ground to escape and he cant hurt you here. If you go to the ground baisic Bazilian jujitsu will get you into position. Use only simple submitions if they present themselves like forearm chokes, rear naked chokes, keylocks or arm bars. My favorite move is to push the guys head down in the clinch like I am about to knee him in the face and while holding his head down move quickly to his back and put a rear naked choke on him. Even experienced guys dont expect it and you can use the guys body as a sheild from his frinds punches for about 5-8 seconds till he goes limp and his body weight makes you have to drop him. ANy friends of his usually are too freaked out to continue fighting after you drop an bud of theirs on the ground unconcious. I also agree you dont want to be on the ground if you dont have to. Iw ould train in these styles in this order. 1. Boxing (1 year minimum and keep up with it on a regular basis) train in a black or white gym not a mexican one. 2. After you are good at boxing take kick boxing. The real stuff with elbows and knees. If they dont spar with elbows and knees then stay away. You can learn all you need to know in 6 months time. All you learn is adding kicks, the clinch (inside elbows and knees) and thats about it. I have never seen a kick boxer that could beat a boxer in my gym. We have world class guys on both sides. 3. For ground work take BJJ (6 months to a year). Remeber you can break guard and things like that differently in a fight (like punch the guy in the face till he lets go or rolls away which is illegal in BJJ tounaments) but remember its very effective and the first, second, third, etc. winner of the Ultimate Fighting Championships was a tall thin BJJ guy. None of the Gracies were especially big. THis gets way too complex way too fast. Learn the positions and learn to pass guard and some submissions and train on your own after that. BJJ is very hard on your muscles and getting bigger would be better than learning how to do some ultra complex behind the back figure eight arm lock while upside down. Some stuff to stay away from: Tae Kwon Do, Taught me how to avoid kicks and to not kick in a real fight. Karate (crappy punches, too many kicks) Kung Fu (WAY too useless in a real fight. Saw a video of a kung fu master who put $50K of his money down and challenged anyone in the world to put down $50K also... winer takes all) A MMA/Wrestler took him on and the fight started with the Kung Fu guy doing some kind of matrix looking jumping kick and the wrestler grabbed him in mid air, slammed him to the ground and broke his arm with key lock within 10 seconds. Judo (too limited but has better throws than BJJ) Akido (never works in real life, I whip the shit out of all Aikido guys I ever met) Greco Roman Wrestling (no offense, I wrestled one of the top collegiate wrestlers in the US and I could not beat him with pure wrestling (no punches allowed) but he could not beat me becase he had no submission skills. great at positioning and movement though and teaches lots of dirty tricks like the chin in the eyeball to get a guy to move his head etc) plus it uses a strong leg forward stance which is all wrong for stand up fighting. If you can find a MMA place that would be best (mixed martial arts) Just make sure the guys there are the real deal. You should have several instructors there that have been in real MMA tounaments like UFC, King of the Cage, etc. If they dont do it for real they usually teach too much pretty or fancy stuff that wont work in a fight. Go here and download some highlight videos [url]http://sherdog.com/videos.htm[/url] The rest of the site is full of punk ass little kids but you can get an idea of what mixed martial arts looks like from these free clips. Good stuff in there. Also consider getting some pay per view fights on satalite or cable. UFC, Pride and K1 are fun too watch. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:54:42 PM EDT
KRAV MAGA...KRAV MAGA...KRAV MAGA...KRAV MAGA THIS IS THE ONE FOR SURVIVAL....NO BS TROPHIES OR PLAQUES...NO PRETTY BELTS OR FLASHY LITTLE KICKS...IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A REAL "OOOHH SHIT IM ABOUT TO DIE!!!!" SITUATION ...KRAV MAGA KRAV MAGA
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 1:27:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2003 1:28:26 PM EDT by triburst1]
I have taken different martial arts and found them useful for teaching leverage and using your opponents weight against him, but not for any pucnching techniques. In real fights, you want to use your knees, elbows, and heels and sides of hands as much as possible. Avoid the movie or bar fight crap where you stand there and trade punches. Get close and go hard and fast for the key points on your opponent; throat, side of neck just below ear, kidneys, solar plexus, etc. I have been in five fights to defend my self. I did not throw any traditional punches, and all were over within a few seconds.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 2:11:11 PM EDT
i fought full contact karate in the 80's... what has been said about boxing (the traditional american martial art) is correct. Bruce Lee's "Fighting Method" series promotes karate kicks and boxing hand techniques... you will not learn to punch if you study Tae Kwon Do. A boxer will get "inside" and beat your ass when you can't kick him...
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 8:30:04 PM EDT
Agreed, Tae Kwon Do sucks real bad. I am sorry I wasted so many years on it. I have to disagree with the no punching thing though. I have been in literally dozens of street fights. (No I dont go around starting crap I just dont put up with any and I have a real smart mouth) Punching is needed but you will break your hand if you punch wrong. Dont just flail or you will break your hand behind the little finger. I got to wrestle a 3 time UFC competitor today. It was a humbling experience. I got choked out with a weird bicep carotid choke twice in a row and got a black eye for my efforts. At least I did not break my nose again. If you know about wrestling I even got German Suplexed by the guy who is 35 pounds lighter than me. That has never happend before.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 11:59:57 AM EDT
I have a black belt in TKD, and its fun but in a real fight its really useless. After that I began to study Kick boxing and grappling, which would be better suited for a street fight. I have also fought in multiple free-style type matches and you can tell the ones who have studied TKD,Judo,etc because most of the time they get their butt's kick by the boxers,wrestlers,etc. Most of the Martial Arts that have a lot of kicking involved is fun to learn but doesn't really prepare you for a street fight. Hey Devl,the UFC competitor you wrestled against, what was his fighting style?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 9:42:48 AM EDT
IMHO real fighting is 90% instinct and most formal training goes out the window when SHTF.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:40:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By triburst1: IMHO real fighting is 90% instinct and most formal training goes out the window when SHTF.
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In my experience fighting is 95% TRAINING as you will not get an adrenaline rush and will simply react as you have trained unconciously. The adrenaline rush comes after the fight. The key is continuous training. If you stop training you will not use the skills you know. I have been in dozens of street fights and the only time I didnt use my skills was when I had had an extended lay off from training. I broke my foot somehow sparring yesterday. Never train without shoes on. NEVER. Most human instinct works against you in a fight. The desire to wrestle your opponent, the desire to get into a fetal position if you are getting nailed in the face over and over. The instinct to hold your breath. The instinct to punch the opponents eyes and not the jaw/neck are all a detriment to being a good fighter. I could go on with about 100 things that are instictive you can train your self to not do to make you a better fighter. Instinct is what you fight against in a real fight, not rely on.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:50:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Viper308: Hey Devl,the UFC competitor you wrestled against, what was his fighting style?
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He is for the most part a BJJ guy. He does Kickboxing too. He is a black dude and calls it "Thug Jitsu" LOL. His name is Yvel Edwards and has been in 3 of the recent UFCs. He is a lightweight and I am a heavy weight and he whooped my ass pretty convincingly since could not punch or kick to keep him at bay (it was wrestling only). I find my biggest problem is not being able to wrestle with good ground fighters. I scramble slow and always end up in a bad position. Of course I didnt have shoes and I will try again with Wrestling shoes ones my foot heals.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 7:20:59 PM EDT
The last few years I have been studying Gojo Ryu Karate, and I enjoy it, and I would rely on it in a knock down drag out fight, but my sensei stresses a "no paper tigers" approach. Most traditional arts as taught in US schools teach more of a dueling style of fighting where sport is emphasized over defense. Like others have said here find a school that focuses on combatives. When I'm at school I also practice Krav Maga, and have been impressed by most of the program, but if you go this route be careful not to fall in with a Hollywood yuppie type class that basically turns it into jewish Tai Bo(SP?). Kyle
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