[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why is SS the default answer? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/24/2015 11:38:12 AM EDT
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Want to lose weight? Strength program meant to be run at a caloric surplus.
Want to tone up? 35 reps 3 times a week. Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) Want to look like Pitt in fight club? No, you don't want to look like that, you want to squat 405 at 22% body fat. 
Want to be faster, stronger and harder to kill? Then yes, SS is a good starting point, but for the first three? We have a complete beginner that wants and needs to lose weight, why is the knee jerk answer always Rippetoe! Can we agree that in this scenario, diet (caloric deficit) should be the priority? Then why advise a low volume strength routine. Because build muscle mass and losing the fat will be easier? They're a beginner, they'll see gains from whatever gimmick program they do if they stick with it. But there's the rub, "if they stick with it." And I guess if they'll see gains from any program anyway, why not start with compound barbell movements? Or we can just tell them to crossfit. |
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I think a few reasons:
-I think DIET is the default answer for most really, especially those wanting to lose fat and I think this gets said most of the time. -SS is soooo simple -Good way to build the habit of working out -I know some disagree here, but IMO SS is a great foundation program that you can modify to meet needs. For example SS + (insert another activity here running/biking/crossfit/swimming) is a good way to build a little muscle and lose some fat. -Yes they will see benefit from almost anything -Yes, burning fat is easier if you have more muscle -Also most people that say "I want to lose weight" REALLY mean "I want to not be as fat and be more muscular" -I think your last point really hits the nail on the head- it's a way to get someone into the compound lifts which are going to be more beneficial than just about anything else. Really, I think the advice isn't so much "do SS" than it is "squat, deadlift, bench, press and follow some program that has these things". The advice could just as well be greyskull, 5x5, 5/3/1 or an Oly program (for those that this may apply to) |
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I, for one, would not recommend Starting Strength as a panacea for all circumstances. I do believe that the "big three" (plus a few others) are among the very best way to build a body, gain strength, etc.
That being said, a good plan, determination, consistency, and patience, are what truly matter. |
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I think a few reasons: -I think DIET is the default answer for most really, especially those wanting to lose fat and I think this gets said most of the time. -SS is soooo simple -Good way to build the habit of working out -I know some disagree here, but IMO SS is a great foundation program that you can modify to meet needs. For example SS + (insert another activity here running/biking/crossfit/swimming) is a good way to build a little muscle and lose some fat. -Yes they will see benefit from almost anything -Yes, burning fat is easier if you have more muscle -Also most people that say "I want to lose weight" REALLY mean "I want to not be as fat and be more muscular" -I think your last point really hits the nail on the head- it's a way to get someone into the compound lifts which are going to be more beneficial than just about anything else. Really, I think the advice isn't so much "do SS" than it is "squat, deadlift, bench, press and follow some program that has these things". The advice could just as well be greyskull, 5x5, 5/3/1 or an Oly program (for those that this may apply to) Exactly. And SS is just a well written, detailed explanation of all the mechanisms involved, for those who take the time to read it. And, as was mentioned the big compound lifts done correctly and heavy produce the best results, from strength and muscle, to hormonal changes, etc etc etc. If someone is morbidly obese, sure they may need to start with a some diet mods and some walking or something, but for the average not super fat guy, walking isn't "hard enough" to produce any long term progress. |
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Crossfit does do it well. ETA: but there's no point in suggesting it because then you bring the hate and kipping pullup gifs. It distracts from the thread. There is a crossfit place by my house, I am tempted to just go sign my wife up and pay for a year up front....she thrives in that group stuff, and is freaky when it comes to "we paid for it I have to do it". I think she would love it. |
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Want to lose weight? Strength program meant to be run at a caloric surplus. Adding lean body mass is arguably the easiest way to drop bodyfat Want to tone up? 35 reps 3 times a week. Personally I do like more volume and frequency then SS but I've been training for 16 years Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) This address's your first question as the easiest way to see your abs is dropping fat Want to look like Pitt in fight club? No, you don't want to look like that, you want to squat 405 at 22% body fat. Dont think I'm following you here but if you at 22% bodyfat you're eating too damn much
Want to be faster, stronger and harder to kill? Then yes, SS is a good starting point, but for the first three? Glad we're on the same page 
We have a complete beginner that wants and needs to lose weight, why is the knee jerk answer always Rippetoe! Can we agree that in this scenario, diet (caloric deficit) should be the priority? Then why advise a low volume strength routine. Because build muscle mass and losing the fat will be easier? They're a beginner, they'll see gains from whatever gimmick program they do if they stick with it. But there's the rub, "if they stick with it." And I guess if they'll see gains from any program anyway, why not start with compound barbell movements? I think you answered the question. It's simply a solid program that will give anyone a solid base to start from. Or we can just tell them to crossfit. Ewwwww |
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There is a crossfit place by my house, I am tempted to just go sign my wife up and pay for a year up front....she thrives in that group stuff, and is freaky when it comes to "we paid for it I have to do it". I think she would love it. Quoted:
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Crossfit does do it well. ETA: but there's no point in suggesting it because then you bring the hate and kipping pullup gifs. It distracts from the thread. There is a crossfit place by my house, I am tempted to just go sign my wife up and pay for a year up front....she thrives in that group stuff, and is freaky when it comes to "we paid for it I have to do it". I think she would love it. Though the crossfit comment was a little tongue in cheek, but for your average "get back in shape, lose some fat, gain some muscle, look good" kind of goals, I think crossfit, especially for someone with no background in lifting or the gym environment is best, given a quality box. I think the group environment of crossfit, for a beginner, is the best part. Instead of going at it alone in some globo or bro gym the support and motivational group is right there. Combined with a strength program, might have the best chance of success and long term change. |
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Though the crossfit comment was a little tongue in cheek, but for your average "get back in shape, lose some fat, gain some muscle, look good" kind of goals, I think crossfit, especially for someone with no background in lifting or the gym environment is best, given a quality box. I think the group environment of crossfit, for a beginner, is the best part. Instead of going at it alone in some globo or bro gym the support and motivational group is right there. Combined with a strength program, might have the best chance of success and long term change. Quoted:
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Crossfit does do it well. ETA: but there's no point in suggesting it because then you bring the hate and kipping pullup gifs. It distracts from the thread. There is a crossfit place by my house, I am tempted to just go sign my wife up and pay for a year up front....she thrives in that group stuff, and is freaky when it comes to "we paid for it I have to do it". I think she would love it. Though the crossfit comment was a little tongue in cheek, but for your average "get back in shape, lose some fat, gain some muscle, look good" kind of goals, I think crossfit, especially for someone with no background in lifting or the gym environment is best, given a quality box. I think the group environment of crossfit, for a beginner, is the best part. Instead of going at it alone in some globo or bro gym the support and motivational group is right there. Combined with a strength program, might have the best chance of success and long term change. I agree. Further it gives someone a taste of a lot of different things, so they can move on to something else later if they so choose- powerlifting, oly, running, rowing, etc... |
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I agree. Further it gives someone a taste of a lot of different things, so they can move on to something else later if they so choose- powerlifting, oly, running, rowing, etc... Quoted:
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Crossfit does do it well. ETA: but there's no point in suggesting it because then you bring the hate and kipping pullup gifs. It distracts from the thread. There is a crossfit place by my house, I am tempted to just go sign my wife up and pay for a year up front....she thrives in that group stuff, and is freaky when it comes to "we paid for it I have to do it". I think she would love it. Though the crossfit comment was a little tongue in cheek, but for your average "get back in shape, lose some fat, gain some muscle, look good" kind of goals, I think crossfit, especially for someone with no background in lifting or the gym environment is best, given a quality box. I think the group environment of crossfit, for a beginner, is the best part. Instead of going at it alone in some globo or bro gym the support and motivational group is right there. Combined with a strength program, might have the best chance of success and long term change. I agree. Further it gives someone a taste of a lot of different things, so they can move on to something else later if they so choose- powerlifting, oly, running, rowing, etc... And it requires a commitment to sweating hard at least 4 or 5 times per week. I've seen lots of people try it and quit, but every single overweight guy I've seen who stuck it out melted off the weight. Now women are more complicated from what I've seen. Even doing CF for years, if their diet is not right, some of them will not lose the fat. |
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Haven't done anything in years and want to get back in shape look into an Orange Theory Fitness facility. Not cheap but it will get you in shape. Trainers will help with diet if you ask. Good aerobic and muscular toning. Was mainly women when I started 2+ yrs ago but a lot of guys have started joining. Getting your ass handed to you by some young female is a great incentive or maybe an old guy like me out doing you on the rower and in the weight area.
Down side is you have to sign up for training session in advance and you cannot workout on your own. I am currently booked for a session everyday through month end with 2 on the 29th. One hr session that will kick your butt no matter what shape you're in as long as you put the effort in. No I am not a paid spokesperson. |
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Haven't done anything in years and want to get back in shape look into an Orange Theory Fitness facility. Not cheap but it will get you in shape. Trainers will help with diet if you ask. Good aerobic and muscular toning. Was mainly women when I started 2+ yrs ago but a lot of guys have started joining. Getting your ass handed to you by some young female is a great incentive or maybe an old guy like me out doing you on the rower and in the weight area. Down side is you have to sign up for training session in advance and you cannot workout on your own. I am currently booked for a session everyday through month end with 2 on the 29th. One hr session that will kick your butt no matter what shape you're in as long as you put the effort in. No I am not a paid spokesperson. Do much work with a barbell or mainly machines? |
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Do much work with a barbell or mainly machines? Quoted:
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Haven't done anything in years and want to get back in shape look into an Orange Theory Fitness facility. Not cheap but it will get you in shape. Trainers will help with diet if you ask. Good aerobic and muscular toning. Was mainly women when I started 2+ yrs ago but a lot of guys have started joining. Getting your ass handed to you by some young female is a great incentive or maybe an old guy like me out doing you on the rower and in the weight area. Down side is you have to sign up for training session in advance and you cannot workout on your own. I am currently booked for a session everyday through month end with 2 on the 29th. One hr session that will kick your butt no matter what shape you're in as long as you put the effort in. No I am not a paid spokesperson. Do much work with a barbell or mainly machines? They only have Dumbbells, straps, Treadmills and rowing machines. I also lift a Youfit although this month I have only gone twice next month I plan to do days alternate OTF , Youfit and take one day off most likely Sat. |
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Want to lose weight? Strength program meant to be run at a caloric surplus. Because SS for fat people isn't meant to be run at a caloric surplus. Educate yourself Holmes. Also, it should be no surprise that muscle heads recommend strength training. Finally, the smart ones recommend diet for weight loss and strength training for looking sexy. Want to tone up? 35 reps 3 times a week. "Tone" is a made up term to market to soccer moms. Some of us believe that building a foundation of strength is needed before shredding...otherwise wtf are you planning on showing off? Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) More squats is always the right answer. But abs are made in the kitchen. I've got killer abs...somewhere under this fur and fat. Want to look like Pitt in fight club? No, you don't want to look like that, you want to squat 405 at 22% body fat.
This ain't the place for advice if you want to look like a lean, 14 y/o boy. Want to be faster, stronger and harder to kill? Then yes, SS is a good starting point, but for the first three? We have a complete beginner that wants and needs to lose weight, why is the knee jerk answer always Rippetoe! Can we agree that in this scenario, diet (caloric deficit) should be the priority? Then why advise a low volume strength routine. Because build muscle mass and losing the fat will be easier? They're a beginner, they'll see gains from whatever gimmick program they do if they stick with it. But there's the rub, "if they stick with it." And I guess if they'll see gains from any program anyway, why not start with compound barbell movements? Or we can just tell them to crossfit. As already mentioned, the most important take away is to focus on the heavy, compound movements. SS is the gold standard for describing the movements and why we do them. Also, SS is a linear program...guess the shortest distance between two points... Strength is difficult and time consuming to maintain. Losing fat is simple. If you want to lose fat, eat mo better. If you just want to exercise....Crossfit. |
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Want to lose weight? Strength program meant to be run at a caloric surplus. Adding lean body mass is arguably the easiest way to drop bodyfat Want to tone up? 35 reps 3 times a week. Personally I do like more volume and frequency then SS but I've been training for 16 years Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) This address's your first question as the easiest way to see your abs is dropping fat Want to look like Pitt in fight club? No, you don't want to look like that, you want to squat 405 at 22% body fat. Dont think I'm following you here but if you at 22% bodyfat you're eating too damn much
Want to be faster, stronger and harder to kill? Then yes, SS is a good starting point, but for the first three? Glad we're on the same page
We have a complete beginner that wants and needs to lose weight, why is the knee jerk answer always Rippetoe! Can we agree that in this scenario, diet (caloric deficit) should be the priority? Then why advise a low volume strength routine. Because build muscle mass and losing the fat will be easier? They're a beginner, they'll see gains from whatever gimmick program they do if they stick with it. But there's the rub, "if they stick with it." And I guess if they'll see gains from any program anyway, why not start with compound barbell movements? I think you answered the question. It's simply a solid program that will give anyone a solid base to start from. Or we can just tell them to crossfit. Ewwwww Re: the 22% bf comment. Somewhere in time, it has been said that your body is more prone to building muscle at 18-22% bf or so. I read it on the internet so it's true. And not everyone wants abs. Well...ones that you can see. |
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Re: the 22% bf comment. Somewhere in time, it has been said that your body is more prone to building muscle at 18-22% bf or so. I read it on the internet so it's true. And not everyone wants abs. Well...ones that you can see. Quoted:
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Want to lose weight? Strength program meant to be run at a caloric surplus. Adding lean body mass is arguably the easiest way to drop bodyfat Want to tone up? 35 reps 3 times a week. Personally I do like more volume and frequency then SS but I've been training for 16 years Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) This address's your first question as the easiest way to see your abs is dropping fat Want to look like Pitt in fight club? No, you don't want to look like that, you want to squat 405 at 22% body fat. Dont think I'm following you here but if you at 22% bodyfat you're eating too damn much
Want to be faster, stronger and harder to kill? Then yes, SS is a good starting point, but for the first three? Glad we're on the same page
We have a complete beginner that wants and needs to lose weight, why is the knee jerk answer always Rippetoe! Can we agree that in this scenario, diet (caloric deficit) should be the priority? Then why advise a low volume strength routine. Because build muscle mass and losing the fat will be easier? They're a beginner, they'll see gains from whatever gimmick program they do if they stick with it. But there's the rub, "if they stick with it." And I guess if they'll see gains from any program anyway, why not start with compound barbell movements? I think you answered the question. It's simply a solid program that will give anyone a solid base to start from. Or we can just tell them to crossfit. Ewwwww Re: the 22% bf comment. Somewhere in time, it has been said that your body is more prone to building muscle at 18-22% bf or so. I read it on the internet so it's true. And not everyone wants abs. Well...ones that you can see. I think this dude has figured out how to build muscle.
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I agree. Further it gives someone a taste of a lot of different things, so they can move on to something else later if they so choose- powerlifting, oly, running, rowing, etc... Quoted:
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Crossfit does do it well. ETA: but there's no point in suggesting it because then you bring the hate and kipping pullup gifs. It distracts from the thread. There is a crossfit place by my house, I am tempted to just go sign my wife up and pay for a year up front....she thrives in that group stuff, and is freaky when it comes to "we paid for it I have to do it". I think she would love it. Though the crossfit comment was a little tongue in cheek, but for your average "get back in shape, lose some fat, gain some muscle, look good" kind of goals, I think crossfit, especially for someone with no background in lifting or the gym environment is best, given a quality box. I think the group environment of crossfit, for a beginner, is the best part. Instead of going at it alone in some globo or bro gym the support and motivational group is right there. Combined with a strength program, might have the best chance of success and long term change. I agree. Further it gives someone a taste of a lot of different things, so they can move on to something else later if they so choose- powerlifting, oly, running, rowing, etc... I had her doing a good barbell program a couple years ago, she is just not good at managing her time....we have 4 young kids at home and if she doesn't make it a priority it just doesn't happen. She is not lazy by anyone's standards. If I had a year of paid crossfit for her, and she knew she had class or training at this time on this day, she would make it every time. |
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I had her doing a good barbell program a couple years ago, she is just not good at managing her time....we have 4 young kids at home and if she doesn't make it a priority it just doesn't happen. She is not lazy by anyone's standards. If I had a year of paid crossfit for her, and she knew she had class or training at this time on this day, she would make it every time. Quoted:
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Crossfit does do it well. ETA: but there's no point in suggesting it because then you bring the hate and kipping pullup gifs. It distracts from the thread. There is a crossfit place by my house, I am tempted to just go sign my wife up and pay for a year up front....she thrives in that group stuff, and is freaky when it comes to "we paid for it I have to do it". I think she would love it. Though the crossfit comment was a little tongue in cheek, but for your average "get back in shape, lose some fat, gain some muscle, look good" kind of goals, I think crossfit, especially for someone with no background in lifting or the gym environment is best, given a quality box. I think the group environment of crossfit, for a beginner, is the best part. Instead of going at it alone in some globo or bro gym the support and motivational group is right there. Combined with a strength program, might have the best chance of success and long term change. I agree. Further it gives someone a taste of a lot of different things, so they can move on to something else later if they so choose- powerlifting, oly, running, rowing, etc... I had her doing a good barbell program a couple years ago, she is just not good at managing her time....we have 4 young kids at home and if she doesn't make it a priority it just doesn't happen. She is not lazy by anyone's standards. If I had a year of paid crossfit for her, and she knew she had class or training at this time on this day, she would make it every time. Hey I think it's a great idea. I mean even for me- I'm dedicated and like lifting, but if I don't have a plan then it all just falls by the wayside. I also like the group atmosphere. That's why I lift at a CF gym even though I don't CF. I like being around similar minded people. |
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I think this dude has figured out how to build muscle. Quoted:
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Want to lose weight? Strength program meant to be run at a caloric surplus. Adding lean body mass is arguably the easiest way to drop bodyfat Want to tone up? 35 reps 3 times a week. Personally I do like more volume and frequency then SS but I've been training for 16 years Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) This address's your first question as the easiest way to see your abs is dropping fat Want to look like Pitt in fight club? No, you don't want to look like that, you want to squat 405 at 22% body fat. Dont think I'm following you here but if you at 22% bodyfat you're eating too damn much
Want to be faster, stronger and harder to kill? Then yes, SS is a good starting point, but for the first three? Glad we're on the same page
We have a complete beginner that wants and needs to lose weight, why is the knee jerk answer always Rippetoe! Can we agree that in this scenario, diet (caloric deficit) should be the priority? Then why advise a low volume strength routine. Because build muscle mass and losing the fat will be easier? They're a beginner, they'll see gains from whatever gimmick program they do if they stick with it. But there's the rub, "if they stick with it." And I guess if they'll see gains from any program anyway, why not start with compound barbell movements? I think you answered the question. It's simply a solid program that will give anyone a solid base to start from. Or we can just tell them to crossfit. Ewwwww Re: the 22% bf comment. Somewhere in time, it has been said that your body is more prone to building muscle at 18-22% bf or so. I read it on the internet so it's true. And not everyone wants abs. Well...ones that you can see. I think this dude has figured out how to build muscle. Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. |
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Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. Quoted:
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Want to lose weight? Strength program meant to be run at a caloric surplus. Adding lean body mass is arguably the easiest way to drop bodyfat Want to tone up? 35 reps 3 times a week. Personally I do like more volume and frequency then SS but I've been training for 16 years Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) This address's your first question as the easiest way to see your abs is dropping fat Want to look like Pitt in fight club? No, you don't want to look like that, you want to squat 405 at 22% body fat. Dont think I'm following you here but if you at 22% bodyfat you're eating too damn much
Want to be faster, stronger and harder to kill? Then yes, SS is a good starting point, but for the first three? Glad we're on the same page
We have a complete beginner that wants and needs to lose weight, why is the knee jerk answer always Rippetoe! Can we agree that in this scenario, diet (caloric deficit) should be the priority? Then why advise a low volume strength routine. Because build muscle mass and losing the fat will be easier? They're a beginner, they'll see gains from whatever gimmick program they do if they stick with it. But there's the rub, "if they stick with it." And I guess if they'll see gains from any program anyway, why not start with compound barbell movements? I think you answered the question. It's simply a solid program that will give anyone a solid base to start from. Or we can just tell them to crossfit. Ewwwww Re: the 22% bf comment. Somewhere in time, it has been said that your body is more prone to building muscle at 18-22% bf or so. I read it on the internet so it's true. And not everyone wants abs. Well...ones that you can see. I think this dude has figured out how to build muscle. Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. I don't want to get too big doe, just looking to firm up.
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Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. |
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Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. Quoted:
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Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. 
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Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. Quoted:
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Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. Dammit. My iPhone won't let me post hyperlinks anymore. Crashes safari. Pretend I linked arfcom GD as my "steroids experts" to back up my claims. Maybe that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. |
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Dammit. My iPhone won't let me post hyperlinks anymore. Crashes safari. Pretend I linked arfcom GD as my "steroids experts" to back up my claims. Maybe that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. Quoted:
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Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. Dammit. My iPhone won't let me post hyperlinks anymore. Crashes safari. Pretend I linked arfcom GD as my "steroids experts" to back up my claims. Maybe that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. Oh good I am just finishing week 5 of 600mg a week....nice knowing you guys, I will probably be dead by week 12 
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How much do you pay a month Roland? This place by my house i think is 100.00 a month, all the classes you can handle. I tried quoting you, but I still haven't figured out how do get rid of all the quotes correctly. I coach a couple classes a month for them (good friends of mine) so I actually get paid
I think they charge $150 a month or so for unlimited, which is a good deal in SoCal. |
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No. If you want abs, work your abs. Squats aren't particularly good in that regard. Quoted:
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Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) No. If you want abs, work your abs. Squats aren't particularly good in that regard. My abs are strong as fuck and I don't do any ab work. |
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Quoted: My abs are strong as fuck and I don't do any ab work. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) No. If you want abs, work your abs. Squats aren't particularly good in that regard. My abs are strong as fuck and I don't do any ab work. Doesn't change the fact that squats aren't a particularly good source if your goal is to get abs. |
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Doesn't change the fact that squats aren't a particularly good source if your goal is to get abs. Quoted:
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Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) No. If you want abs, work your abs. Squats aren't particularly good in that regard. My abs are strong as fuck and I don't do any ab work. Doesn't change the fact that squats aren't a particularly good source if your goal is to get abs. You cant refute the fact that doing heavy squats makes for stronger, "bigger" or "better" abs than doing crunches or BW ab work. Wether or not you see them is all genetics and diet. |
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Doesn't change the fact that squats aren't a particularly good source if your goal is to get abs. Quoted:
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Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) No. If you want abs, work your abs. Squats aren't particularly good in that regard. My abs are strong as fuck and I don't do any ab work. Doesn't change the fact that squats aren't a particularly good source if your goal is to get abs. Well, no, that's why I wrote it, but....... You want abs, get rid of the midsection fat. But putting a heavy barbell over your head (or on your shoulders) does work trunk stability quite a bit. And to get the most out of that stability you're probably programming in abs and lower back anyway. |
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I can absolutely refute it. Give me a bit, I'll find the research on it. Here is the easy to find article. I've read journal articles on it as well.  |
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Doesn't change the fact that squats aren't a particularly good source if your goal is to get abs. Quoted:
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Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) No. If you want abs, work your abs. Squats aren't particularly good in that regard. My abs are strong as fuck and I don't do any ab work. Doesn't change the fact that squats aren't a particularly good source if your goal is to get abs. If you want to see abs you have to have a low body fat %. You can have abs with no workout at all. |
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I can absolutely refute it. Give me a bit, I'll find the research on it. Here is the easy to find article. I've read journal articles on it as well. https://www.t-nation.com/training/core-confusion https://www.t-nation.com/system/publishing/article_assets/1590/original/Rectus-Abdominis.jpg I dont even know where to start... If anyone thinks your abz are more "activated" doing BW ab work than doing a set of real squats or deads at 500 pounds they do not understand strength, "muscle activation" or geez...I don't even know the words to use. If you are measuring the force of the contraction, there is NO comparison. Heavy deads and squats make your abs contract much much harder than BW ab work. |
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Quoted: I dont even know where to start... If anyone thinks your abz are more "activated" doing BW ab work than doing a set of real squats or deads at 500 pounds they do not understand strength, "muscle activation" or geez...I don't even know the words to use. If you are measuring the force of the contraction, there is NO comparison. Heavy deads and squats make your abs contract much much harder than BW ab work. Quoted: Quoted: I can absolutely refute it. Give me a bit, I'll find the research on it. Here is the easy to find article. I've read journal articles on it as well. https://www.t-nation.com/training/core-confusion https://www.t-nation.com/system/publishing/article_assets/1590/original/Rectus-Abdominis.jpg I dont even know where to start... If anyone thinks your abz are more "activated" doing BW ab work than doing a set of real squats or deads at 500 pounds they do not understand strength, "muscle activation" or geez...I don't even know the words to use. If you are measuring the force of the contraction, there is NO comparison. Heavy deads and squats make your abs contract much much harder than BW ab work. If you don't where to start, start at showing research that refutes it. I've got a lot to learn and if I'm doing it wrong, I'm up for being corrected. |
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If you don't where to start, start at showing research that refutes it. I've got a lot to learn and if I'm doing it wrong, I'm up for being corrected. Quoted:
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I can absolutely refute it. Give me a bit, I'll find the research on it. Here is the easy to find article. I've read journal articles on it as well. https://www.t-nation.com/training/core-confusion https://www.t-nation.com/system/publishing/article_assets/1590/original/Rectus-Abdominis.jpg I dont even know where to start... If anyone thinks your abz are more "activated" doing BW ab work than doing a set of real squats or deads at 500 pounds they do not understand strength, "muscle activation" or geez...I don't even know the words to use. If you are measuring the force of the contraction, there is NO comparison. Heavy deads and squats make your abs contract much much harder than BW ab work. If you don't where to start, start at showing research that refutes it. I've got a lot to learn and if I'm doing it wrong, I'm up for being corrected. And I hope you don't get the feel from me that I am being like some jackass in GD....I don't mean to come across that way it I am. |
| And then there is the whole "muscle confusion" aspect as well....no such thing. Muscles are either adapted to the stress applied, or they are not. If you do sets of 5 in a lift, then do sets of 50 next week at a lighter weight, you will probably get pretty sore. That isn't confusion, that is a muscle not adapted to high reps. |
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I have to contact my abs so much harder doing squats than pushups, lol. Yep, there is no comparison. Of course if you did 200 pushups, and your abs were burning.....that just means they are fatigued. they aren't contracting any harder....its not possible. |
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I can absolutely refute it. Give me a bit, I'll find the research on it. Here is the easy to find article. I've read journal articles on it as well. https://www.t-nation.com/training/core-confusion https://www.t-nation.com/system/publishing/article_assets/1590/original/Rectus-Abdominis.jpg Here is a guy that doesn't understand how EMG works or scientific studies. He also hasn't squatted over 400 lbs. |
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I just read the article, according to the article they would conclude that a guy who does a bunch of the bosu ball exercises and does not squat or deadlift would have stronger abs and core than a guy who deadlifts 700 pounds but never uses a bosu ball.
I don't even know what to say... |
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Quoted: I just read the article, according to the article they would conclude that a guy who does a bunch of the bosu ball exercises and does not squat or deadlift would have stronger abs and core than a guy who deadlifts 700 pounds but never uses a bosu ball. I don't even know what to say... That isn't what he said at all. He said you need to work your anterior core muscles with more than just deads and squats. |
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That isn't what he said at all. He said you need to work your anterior core muscles with more than just deads and squats. Quoted:
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I just read the article, according to the article they would conclude that a guy who does a bunch of the bosu ball exercises and does not squat or deadlift would have stronger abs and core than a guy who deadlifts 700 pounds but never uses a bosu ball. I don't even know what to say... That isn't what he said at all. He said you need to work your anterior core muscles with more than just deads and squats. Have you ever done 3 sets of 5 squats (parallel) at your max 5 rep weight? Or your max 5 rep deadlift? And i am not talking about a novice 5 rep max.... |
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Quoted: Have you ever done 3 sets of 5 squats (parallel) at your max 5 rep weight? Or your max 5 rep deadlift? And i am not talking about a novice 5 rep max.... Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just read the article, according to the article they would conclude that a guy who does a bunch of the bosu ball exercises and does not squat or deadlift would have stronger abs and core than a guy who deadlifts 700 pounds but never uses a bosu ball. I don't even know what to say... That isn't what he said at all. He said you need to work your anterior core muscles with more than just deads and squats. Have you ever done 3 sets of 5 squats (parallel) at your max 5 rep weight? Or your max 5 rep deadlift? And i am not talking about a novice 5 rep max.... Yes, I train for both strength through progressive overload as well as hypertrophy. My personal opinion is if you are a novice, deads and squats will be enough regardless of activation, but as you progress you need direct ab work because squats and deads are not good enough for either strength or aesthetics. Oblique work is probably more important, but we are focusing on abs here as the goal. |
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I think 5x5 is a better and free version of starting strength personally.
I also think most get excited here about any direct work because the vast majority don't like it/ isn't popular. It certainly has its place and isn't worth arguing about imo. To clarify I'm not saying don't squat or deadlift either. |
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Here is a guy that doesn't understand how EMG works or scientific studies. He also hasn't squatted over 400 lbs. Quoted:
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I can absolutely refute it. Give me a bit, I'll find the research on it. Here is the easy to find article. I've read journal articles on it as well. https://www.t-nation.com/training/core-confusion https://www.t-nation.com/system/publishing/article_assets/1590/original/Rectus-Abdominis.jpg Here is a guy that doesn't understand how EMG works or scientific studies. He also hasn't squatted over 400 lbs. Give him a break, he's clearly an OU fan with the username. Go Pokes! 
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<a href="http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/Tanren37/media/XmKsnIi_zpslyqagiuq.gif.html" target="_blank">http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r507/Tanren37/XmKsnIi_zpslyqagiuq.gif</a> <a href="http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/Tanren37/media/A4IBH_zps9zakihka.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r507/Tanren37/A4IBH_zps9zakihka.jpg</a> Quoted:
<a href="http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/Tanren37/media/XmKsnIi_zpslyqagiuq.gif.html" target="_blank">http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r507/Tanren37/XmKsnIi_zpslyqagiuq.gif</a> <a href="http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/Tanren37/media/A4IBH_zps9zakihka.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r507/Tanren37/A4IBH_zps9zakihka.jpg</a> 
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