Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 10/21/2002 9:19:13 AM EDT
OK, I appreciate all the help on sore joints, as I made some of the changes suggested and have not had nearly as much trouble as before. Now my frustration, I don't seem to be getting any bigger. I was originally doing the strict Body-For-Life workout, and that had some immediate results, but nothing really about making my bigger. I'm 6'-0" and 165lbs right now, and was around 170lbs 3 months ago when I stated the BfL. What I'm doing now is for each muscle group, I do 3 sets of 8 reps or so, followed by a different excercise on the same muscle group for 12 reps. For example, I start my chest workout with 3 sets of 8 flat bench press, followed by 12 reps of inclined flies. I work each muscle goup like this, and uppper body takes me about 40-50 minutes. I have been increasing weights when I get the reps up around 10 for the 3 sets. When I first stated, I noticed increased definition in my muscles almost immediately, but not much gain in mass. Since then I really haven't seen any results. I'm eating quite a bit (mostly low-fat high carbs and proteins), and I'm not feeling hungry. Having been active but a "beanpole" most of my life, I was really hoping to gain some mass, but nothing seems to be happening for me. Any suggestions?
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 2:04:30 PM EDT
....sea'....or I mean...see food diet...you see it you eat it![;)] ..j/k kinda....ANY ONE, just starting any type of weightraining/exercise routine will 'see' the benifits much more the first year than the second yr. like wise third yr.,etc. Especially if genitics are not on your side.[:(]
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 2:45:05 PM EDT
hmmmmm......how many calories are you taking in each day? Are you doing all this increased strenght training on 2000 to 2500 calories a day or have you kicked it up a 1000 extra or so.... One guide I was just reading suggested a 5000 to 5500 calorie a day diet when trying to "bulk up"!!!!! Geeeeeze, who can eat that much.....or maybe afford it......LOL [:D]
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 3:55:54 PM EDT
Just a couple of thoughts. What works for one person will not necessarily work for another. If what you are doing is not getting results, then change up your routine. I never gained much size with 10 reps or more. I gained better with 6 or so. If I got six, I added weight. If I could not get 4 I took it off. You will gain strength with lower reps and size will follow. Your muscle strength will increase faster than tendon strnength, so be aware of soreness vs injury. Take is slow on the concentric part of the rep, and up your time under tension. I seemed to get more microtears and grew faster that way. Doing ten fast reps is not as good as 5 slow reps. If the muscle does not get sore the second day, you did not create the damage it takes to repair and grow. Don't do the same routine for weeks on end. Your body will adapt and needs a different stimulus. Make sure you don't overtrain and make sure you get plenty of rest and water, do not let yourself and your muscles be in a dehydrated state.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 4:11:32 AM EDT
2000-3000 calories? Wow. Maybe I'm not getting the calorie intake I should be. How do I know how many calories are in things like chicken and beef? Whats the recommended protein intake? I have found that my tendons get sore faster (see the "sore joints" thread). I will have to try increasing the weight and lowering the reps even more. I'll try going at 6 reps. I really haven't been getting sore (except for the joints and tendons), but I do get to a point where I can increase the weight, and I am really maxed out when I hit the last rep on the 3rd set.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 4:48:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: 2000-3000 calories? Wow. Maybe I'm not getting the calorie intake I should be. How do I know how many calories are in things like chicken and beef? Whats the recommended protein intake?
View Quote
A gram of protein on average has about 4 calories. The recommended daily protein intake varies widely, from the current U.S. dietary guidelines of 0.8 grams per kilogram of bodyweight to some diet plans that suggest 2 grams per kilogram of bodyweight, or 0.91 grams per pound. At the suggested 2 grams per kilogram of body weight multiply your weight by 0.91 to get suggested daily protein amount. Roughly 150 grams for a 165 lb man.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 9:33:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2002 9:34:18 AM EDT by rocko]
You can get nutrion information for various foods here: [url]http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR14/sr14.html[/url] Rocko
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:17:21 PM EDT
Hello, I will first give a disclaimer...most Americans (weekend warriors, amateurs, professionals, and trainers included) mistakely confuse bodybuilding with training for athletic performance. There is a general training effect if you do either but having a body like Arnold Schwartznegger does not necessarily mean you are strong. Lou Ferigno (sp? --the Hulk) tried to compete in the "World's Strongest Man" tournaments and failed misearably (at least at first) because he had always trained for size and size does not equal strength. The marketing efforts of the Weider family and Arthur Jones (Nautilus) have been so successful that most people in the gym do bodybuilding exercises/routines, etc., ...mistakenly... when their goals are athletic performance. Charles Poliquin, Paul Chek, and the other "athletic renaissance" trainers are largely analyzing recently available Soviet exercise science to bring non-bodybuilding strength training back to the states. So, make sure your goals are aligned with what you want. The absolute best book on bodybuilding, IMHO, is "Secrets of Advanced Bodybuilding" from Health for Life. They have a series of publications on bondybuilding and all are great. Make sure you get the supplement (appendix) and update books if you buy the main book. For bodybuilding, there are some key principals...progressive overload, periodization, and working to failure. These are done in a different way than strength training (although the routines may look similar). Progressive Overload. The body will respond to loads placed upon it by increasing the size of muscle fibers if those loads are beyond what the body has adjusted for in the past. If the load is not beyond then no muscle gain (no ripped construction workers, are there?). This does not automatically mean "Go Heavy" because you can overload your muscles without throwing around a lot of weight. In fact, you want to start with a short a routine (sets, exercises) as possible so you can progressively overload all the way from the start (rather than start with a 3-4 sets x 8-10 reps routine)...like starting in 3rd gear (or 5th gear if you do those silly routines in Weider magazines). So first, cut down the sets and reps you do to 2-3 sets of 5-8 reps. Overloading muscles is a balance between tension (weight applied) and fatigue (previous reps, weights, and exercises applied). So, while sport trainers would say these two routines are equal... 1) 10 sets of 1 rep at 100lbs (4min rest) 2) 1 set of 10 reps at 100lbs (no rest) ...bodybuilder trainers would say that #2 creates better intensity (tension over fatigue) than #1. Bodybuilding trainers would also say that routine #3 creates better intensity than routine #4... 3) 2 sets of 6 reps at 100lbs (30 sec rest) 4) 3 sets of 8 reps at 165lbs (2 min rest) So, vary your rest between sets from between 25 seconds and 45 seconds. Cutting the rest down in this manner will ensure that the body does not have enough time to rest the initially recruited muscle fibers (usually fast twitch type 1) from the previous set and will have to recruit different muscle fibers (usually medium/slow twitch type 2A in the same muscle) to complete subsequent reps and sets. Presto, overload. The 2A fibers will become more and more closer to 1 fibers (but never "convert") in speed and recovery (up and down, respectively) but because you are recruiting and exhausting more fibers...more fibers will grow. (Athletic trainers are only concerned with type 1 muscle fiber because it will be the solely recruited fiber for power movements because they are so short in duration.) Because you are working along this fatigue/tension threshold, you will need to cut your volume way down at first and build it back up--although you may never get to the exercises-sets-reps volume you achieved before. Start here... * Workout: 5 days per week * Total sets per day: 8 (e.g., 2 bench, 2 incline, 2 tricep, 2 delts) * Total sets per week: 40 * Reps per set 5 to 8 * Rest between sets: 30 seconds * Rest between exercises: same as btw sets * Total workout time: less than 25 minutes (! Always less than 40 minutes...preferable less than 25 minutes.) * Cadence: 2 seconds concentric, 4 seconds eccentric. * Split: Week 1: Legs: Mon, Fri; Pull: Tues, Sat; Push: Wed; Rest: Thur, Sun. Week 2: Push: Mon, Fri; Legs: Tues, Sat; Pull: Wed; Rest: Thur, Sun. Week 3: Pull: Mon, Fri; Push: Tues, Sat; Legs: Wed; Rest: Thur, Sun. (Weeks 4-6 are same as 1-3) (note how this cycles which area is worked on Wednesday and the area worked on Wednesday is only worked once per week. The others are twice per week.) Legs: Quads, Hams, Glutes, Calves, Lower Back Pull: Lats, Traps, Biceps, Rear Delt, Neck Push: Chest, Triceps, Front/Side Delts, Forearms You should be picking weights that take you to concentric failure by your last set of that exercise (cannot lift the weight one more rep without assistance). Once you are comfortable with that (after 6-9 weeks or 2 6-week periods), try taking the Wednesday routine to eccentric failure (cannot lower the weight in a controlled manner) if you have a spotter (for safety's sake). See how this split automatically spaces out "heavy days" so you only do one per 3-weeks per bodypart?
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:37:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2002 1:43:26 PM EDT by fmrjames4]
(cont'd) The above "concentric failure / eccentric failure" addresses working to failure. The final piece is periodization. The body will eventually adapt to the stresses you place on it through your weight routines. As it adapts, your size gains will decrease. Or, you will become fatigued at the intensity and will need to cut back or risk overtraining (which will cause strength and size loss). Either way, you will need to periodize. The body will adapt to new stresses in 4 phases 1) Adjustment/Toughening/Learning 2) Hypertrophy (muscle growth) 3) Strength Peak 4) Adjustment complete (or overtraining) If you use one routine for too long, you pass through 1,2, and 3 and say in 4...diminishing gains. You have probably been in phase 4 of your current routine for quite some time. Periodization alters the exercise, set, rep, weight, and rest combinations to achieve different goals (for athletes) or to say in phases 1,2, and 3 for bodybuilders. For beginners, a period may last up to 12 weeks but as you advance, a period may only last 3-6 weeks. At that point, you need to switch around your routine to keep the gains coming. How to switch... * Change exercises (most important!) * Change reps per set (3-5, 4-6, 6-8) * Change rest per set (25 sec, 35 sec, 45 sec) etc., etc., You should keep a log of your exercises and weights/sets/reps so you can watch yourself move through phases 1-4. Phase 1 starts with erratic performance (or even a decline in performance) as you adjust. Phase 2 whill have medium gains in weight/reps (but should have the most growth). Phase 3 will have rapid gains in weight/reps but slower gains in growth. Phase 4 will have little gains in anything (and lots of fatigue). Once you are in phase 4, cut your routine down by 67-75% for the rest of the week and take the next week off as you plan a new cycle. Hope this helps, James (Edit, the best way to watch for growth is to weigh yourself, take your bodyfat measurement, and subtract the fat from the total weight to get your raw weight. Stellar gains without recreational pharmacology would be 2lbs a week or roughly 25lbs of lean body mass per year (stellar, though!)).
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 4:38:46 PM EDT
Lots of good advice above. Keep in mind that what works for one person may not for another. Some genetically blessed folks can do the dumbest, sloppiest things in the gym, and still get results. Others have to carefully, scientificly plan every workout. Progressive increases in workout intensity, sufficient recovery time, and a proportionate diet are the basics for gaining muscle. There's nothing fancy about it. I change workouts every 2-3 weeks, but I have found that working in the 4-6 rep area stimulates muscle growth best for me. -Good luck
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 4:28:43 AM EDT
Awesome advice James, thanks. I have a couple of questions. If I reach a point where I am happy with the way I look, what will I have to do to maintain that size/weight? What do you mean by recreational pharmacology? I don't mind supplements and stuff, but I don't wanna take any weenie-shrinker type crap.
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 5:07:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2002 5:10:50 AM EDT by bolt]
[:D] james, -bowing and taking my hat off-.....nice post!,Good read![:D] .....I always switch my routines w/regular variances every 4-6 months and usually do them in a pyrimid to "failure",sometimes per set, style, 6/7 days a week.I rarely take days off to REST/RUN like some [;)]EAsr,[;)][b]I can rest when I'm dead![/b][;)]
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 5:52:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2002 5:52:54 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 6:17:10 AM EDT
EdAsr my friend, I'm just [;)]razzin ya.You are right of course, Im probably overtraining myself (the more you sweat the less you bleed mentality here) @20+ yrs.training= somethings sore all the time. But, I just work it out in the gym, and after the endorphins kick in Im good to go! [;)]hehe!
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 6:24:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 8:38:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: Awesome advice James, thanks. I have a couple of questions. If I reach a point where I am happy with the way I look, what will I have to do to maintain that size/weight?
View Quote
Just maintain that volume of work (weights, sets, reps, rest) without pushing for overload. Honestly, 99.5% of people never get to this point.
Originally Posted By norman74: What do you mean by recreational pharmacology? I don't mind supplements and stuff, but I don't wanna take any weenie-shrinker type crap.
View Quote
Yep, I mean the weenie-shrinker crap. I am definitely anti-steroid...especially because I want to train for athletic performance and making muscles larger/stronger than the links that coordinate movement with those muscles (like joints, tendons, ligaments, etc.) is a recipie for permanent injury. I am also pretty anti-supplement in general except for a multi-vitamin and if you have diet issues (vegan, work 12hrs a day, simply cannot cook). Most of the "evidence" for supplements contain giant leaps of faith. Here is an example from Michael Colgan's "New Power Progam" (which, other than the supplement chapter, is a pretty good book). "Creatine phosphate is the chemical in your muscles which regenerate your primary energy molecule adenosine triphosphate (ATP)." [True.] "...showed that a 5-gram oral dose of creatine monohydrate taken 4-6 times per day increases muscle levels of creatine phosphate, which likely boosts ATP regeneration." And there's the leap of faith. See the "which likely?" It's like the supplement manufacturers/boosters are trying to work a maze. The know the start and the finish and they assume the know the path to get from start to finish...or that there even is a path. It is equally likely that the body--a self regulating organism/mechanism--shuts down its own production/collection/(whatever) of creatine monohydrate because there is a surplus in the bloodstream. Its capability to produce/collect/(whatever) creatine monohydrate languishes and atrophies and your recovery ability (what creatine is trying to help) actually diminishes. James
Link Posted: 10/25/2002 8:03:40 PM EDT
Use CELL TECH I started that and I gained 12 pounds and my bench with up 70 pounds. Just make sure you drink [b]lots[/b] of water and do your walking or running.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 2:53:44 PM EDT
To gain size I have noticed that eating about 1 1/4 g of protien/lb. of body weight, a lot of carbs, and adiquate rest help more than anything else.
Top Top