Posted: 5/21/2010 5:08:43 AM EDT
| Started running about 3 months ago using Couch to 5K. Went from not being able to run 1 minute to 3 miles in 25:30. I have also dropped about 30lbs with the help of a much healthier and lo cal diet. I would like to continue to get better at running. Should I concentrate on getting my 5K time down or should I work on extending my distance. Either have better health effects? Or is it just what ever works for the individual? |
| You need a combination of both. Going a longer distance at a slower pace and then doing shorter distances like 800m repeats around 85% of your fastest 5k time or stepping up and going at desired 5k pace. Tempo runs (running out a certain distance and returning in the same time) are also helpful. These are some of the things cross country runners do to improve times. |
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Mix it up a little. Dont be afraid to run slower and longer, it can have great benefits.
I run for mostly selfish reasons (it is great for my health and stress levels) but I have ran a few races. I am no pro but I felt the best after my six mile runs, but there are till nights when I will be pumped up and in the mood for really trying to speed through two or three miles, but I allow myself to have that freedom in my runs. For you it may be necessary to be more structured but I would say do both. If you are having a bad day and need to just get out and relax dont be afraid to jog for an hour. Just make it fun or it will be way harder than it is. |
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I RARELY run over 5k. What's the point? My 5k time is usually about 20:30 and I mostly run 400m and 800m intervals...(Crossfit style) So basically, I'd do some runs for distance, and some for time, but unless you're training for a longer run I don't really see then need to go over 5k (unless you LIKE it....I don't) |
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Quoted:
Started running about 3 months ago using Couch to 5K. Went from not being able to run 1 minute to 3 miles in 25:30. I have also dropped about 30lbs with the help of a much healthier and lo cal diet. I would like to continue to get better at running. Should I concentrate on getting my 5K time down or should I work on extending my distance. Either have better health effects? Or is it just what ever works for the individual? Standard ARFCOM answer - get both. A 5K run for a non-elite athlete, is primarily about muscular metabolic fitness i.e. lactate threshold. The primary physical adaptation that will make you a faster 5K runner is increased mitochondrial density and improved running economy. Mitochondria are the aerobic engines of muscle that take in oxygen and fuel, carbs or fat, and produce ATP to fuel muscle contraction. To stress this system requires an intensity of roughly your max pace for a 10K (for slower runners) or a 15K for faster runners for a duration of 15-30 minutes, typically known as the tempo run. Lower intensities can facilitate increased mitochondrial density, but require increased duration of effort. Simply put, after warming up for 5-15 minutes, run for for 15-30 minutes at a pace a bit slower than your 5K pace. It should feel, on a scale of 1 (walking) to 10 (100 yard dash) like roughly an 8. Durations shorter than about 12 minutes are typically not sufficient to cause the recruitment, and subsequent aerobic adaptation, in fast twitch (type IIa) muscle cells, though higher intensities offer other benefits/adaptations. |
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Quoted: more mileage will increase your speed at shorter distances - like 30-40 miles per week also run some 800 M intervals and mile repeats to practice speed run long, slow in order to run fast I would disagree with this. The average guy goes out and runs long slow distance is going to get good at running long slow distance. You have to run fast to get fast. The best is to do both, like you said, but I would say that the speed work is more important than the LSD. For example, when I was young, I did mostly somewhat longer slower runs and ran around a 20:30-21:00 5k. Then I ran a couple marathons, so was doing a lot of LSD AND a fair amount of speed work...was running a 18:45-19:30 5k. Now I pretty much only do speed work. 800s, 400s, 200s, 5k and rarely over that. 20:00 - 20:30 5k. So it's all about goals. For me, I don't like running much, so I'd rather go bust my ass doing shorter more intense runs and get it over with than doing only LSD and being slower in the end....or having to do both. I still do long workouts, it's just crossfit stuff or rowing. |
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Quoted:
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more mileage will increase your speed at shorter distances - like 30-40 miles per week also run some 800 M intervals and mile repeats to practice speed run long, slow in order to run fast I would disagree with this. The average guy goes out and runs long slow distance is going to get good at running long slow distance. You have to run fast to get fast. The best is to do both, like you said, but I would say that the speed work is more important than the LSD. For example, when I was young, I did mostly somewhat longer slower runs and ran around a 20:30-21:00 5k. Then I ran a couple marathons, so was doing a lot of LSD AND a fair amount of speed work...was running a 18:45-19:30 5k. Now I pretty much only do speed work. 800s, 400s, 200s, 5k and rarely over that. 20:00 - 20:30 5k. So it's all about goals. For me, I don't like running much, so I'd rather go bust my ass doing shorter more intense runs and get it over with than doing only LSD and being slower in the end....or having to do both. I still do long workouts, it's just crossfit stuff or rowing. I must say Roland brings a much logical and pretty true point. Running slow primarily trains yourself to run slow. You'll see some improvement in times from running long and slow in distance running because your training the endurance. However, running at higher speeds is going to be the bread and butter of faster times. From my experience this is even more true for sprinters where immediate all out effort is necessary, see the explosive sprint speed jumping thread for more on if you're interested. |
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I would disagree with this. The average guy goes out and runs long slow distance is going to get good at running long slow distance. You have to run fast to get fast. The best is to do both, like you said, but I would say that the speed work is more important than the LSD. The problem is that people overemphasize the SLOW compared to the long. For your 20:00-20:30 5K time, the target pace for a long run should be about 8:00-9:00 miles, depending on the distance of the run, with steady state, middle distance, runs being more like 7:00-7:20 pace, and the tempo runs (20-40 minutes of tempo) at 6:45-7:00 pace. |
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Quoted: I would disagree with this. The average guy goes out and runs long slow distance is going to get good at running long slow distance. You have to run fast to get fast. The best is to do both, like you said, but I would say that the speed work is more important than the LSD. The problem is that people overemphasize the SLOW compared to the long. For your 20:00-20:30 5K time, the target pace for a long run should be about 8:00-9:00 miles, depending on the distance of the run, with steady state, middle distance, runs being more like 7:00-7:20 pace, and the tempo runs (20-40 minutes of tempo) at 6:45-7:00 pace. Yeah, maybe it's the overemphasizing that I'm seeing. I don't have a lot of book knowledge on it, just what I've learned on my own. |
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Yeah, maybe it's the overemphasizing that I'm seeing. I don't have a lot of book knowledge on it, just what I've learned on my own.
Really, what I look at as a coach(USA Cycling Level 2/Power Based Training), is what is/are an athlete's limiter(s). In most cases (as concerns middle/long distance running, triathlon, and cycling) in non-elite athletes, that limit is aerobic fitness, by which I mean muscular metabolic fitness - the ability to sustain a moderately high workload for a duration greater than 10-15 minutes. The specific physical limiter in this case is mitochondrial density, though in running (much more than cycling) form/technique can also play a roll; in swimming even more so. The best way to drive the physiological changes to improve muscular metabolic fitness depends on the time available to train. Moderate doses of training at or near lactate threshold or increased durations as intensities decrease. Running also has a higher risk of injury due to impact than does cycling and this risk rises with intensity. That's why I believe that most middle and long distance programs should have tempo and endurance running as their basis. At some point, in response to a sufficient dose of training, mitochondrial density/muscular metabolic fitness improves to the point where the limiter becomes the ability to deliver oxygenated blood to the working muscle - the VO2max system. Track speedwork, with its shorter duration of effort, should IMO, be aimed at improving VO2max; physically speaking, the size of the heart muscle itself. Again with running, there is a bit of change in stride length and muscle use when compared with cycling (pedal stroke always has the same range of motion) so the comparison admittedly isn't exact. Track efforts should be at an intensity that reaches or exceeds the heart's ability to deliver blood to stimulate cardiac muscule hypertrophy - IOW hard and fast - for periods of 3-8 minutes. This level of training is icing on the cake. Many folks doing track work don't have a cake yet. Track work can also be used to improve threshold by manipulation of the work/rest interval, so it is possible to accrue some endurance benefits and the track can also be used to teach pacing, but IMO, a tempo run is normally a more effective use of time to do improve threshold than short rest track repeats. YMMV. |
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Most CC training goes something like this:
so if the season is CC, competitions are in Sept-Early Nov. Track season ends in May early June. Starting end of June-Mid August - get in miles (building the base), new runners average about 15-20mi, going about 2-5mi each run for the first two weeks. Easy pace - able to have a conversation or just past that point. As you progress runners will start getting 50-70mi or more a week. Running twice a day, some runs are 3mi others can be up to 10-12mi or more for higher level runners. About August you start getting in more speed work. Tempo runs, LT (lactate threshold) runs, repeats. Might get in one to two of those workouts in a week depending on meet schedules as they would be coming soon. Days between are usually easy runs about 3-5mi depending on the runner. Weekly mileage with start to come down a little bit. By the end of the season, mileage is down but repeats are in with some tempo runs and mileage will continue to decrease. |