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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2017 5:50:31 PM EDT
So a little searching says I can do ok with the vortex hst 6x24.
I can get the Mil discount so it is not out of the ball park price wise. I read the pst is the same glass, just illuminated reticle. So I am good without it for the price break. Just browsing opticplanet I see a couple of others in about the same range, but don't know anything about them. http://www.opticsplanet.com/konus-konuspro-f30-8-32x56mm-zoom-riflescope.html KONUSPRO-F30 8-32x56mm The only reason this seems interesting is FFP. Well and higher magnification. http://www.opticsplanet.com/hawke-sport-optics-sidewinder-30-8-32x56-sr-pro-ir-riflescope.html Hawke Sport Optics Sidewinder 30 8-32x56 This company has a few in the higher magnification and illuminated. I am a noob on long distance shooting. More of a pistol guy. But I got an itch and am building a 6.5 cm ar10. Which I know can reach out to 2000 yards at least based on youtube vids. These are all within 100 bucks of each other. Anyone of them theoretically will do the job. Any comments or a better choice in the same ball park. Say 600 to maybe 700 . I really don't want to spend more on glass than the gun. And just know I probably won't do this much because there just aren't that many places to do it. By the same token, I don't want to not be able to do it because I cheaped out on glass by 50 bucks or so. |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2017 6:07:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Vortex are pretty hard to beat for the price.
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UT, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2017 7:02:07 PM EDT
[#2]
I would say don't get caught up in thinking you need super high magnification. What you really want is good glass. I typical shoot around 14-16x on my Kahles K624i even though it can go up to 24x. Equally as important as glass quality is a scope that tracks accurately. I think for the price the new vortex pst gen 2's are hard to beat. My preference is for a mil scope and FFP. It might be a little out of your current price range but I think you'll be happy you waited a little longer and got it. Of the scopes you listed I would get the vortex hst. You could also look at picking up a used Vortex pst gen 1 with a FFP. I would get a quality once peice cantilever scope mount that had 20 MOA of cant. This will give you more Elevation adjustment on the scope. The one piece cantilever mount will give you the right eye relief setup for an AR platform.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2017 7:07:59 PM EDT
[#3]
I like Vortex pst 6-24. Glass is clear and the warranty can't be beat.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2017 7:35:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Andrewh]
[#4]
I guess that begs the question is FFP that important? as that is the only major diff between hst and pst that you can't get that.
HS-LR has it, but not sure it is as good. it adds about 200 to the price of the scope. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 8:50:44 AM EDT
[#5]
I just picked up my first Vortex, the HS-t 6-24 50 MRAD for a 300WM hunting rifle that I also do LR target shooting with. I love the turrets and the zero stop and it tracks very nice. For comparison I have a Burris MTAC 6.5-20 50 mil dot reticle. The glass on the Burris MIGHT be just a tad clearer but it doesn't have the side focus and not exactly sure if the Vortex is a true 50mm objective. The Burris 50mm is noticeably larger than the Vortex I don't have much range time behind the Vortex yet but so far I like it.
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Posted: 9/10/2017 9:01:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Check out a SWFA SS 16x or 20x fixed power scope. good glass and can take a pounding for $299.00. Might find a used one in the EE section. Had one on my 50BMG when I had the rifle. Also had one on my 308. Its mil dot but still works great.
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MT, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 9:09:25 AM EDT
[#7]
The high end Bushnell scopes are very high quality glass for the price range as well. They're pretty well represented among PRS shooters and I recently saw a test of top end scopes in which the Bushnell beat out the rest in the long range resolution test.
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Posted: 9/10/2017 9:15:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LongerRange]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewh:
I guess that begs the question is FFP that important? as that is the only major diff between hst and pst that you can't get that. HS-LR has it, but not sure it is as good. it adds about 200 to the price of the scope. If you will always dial all of your dope, will hold wind relative to spotted impacts, and don't plan to use the reticle for ranging, second focal plane is fine. If you want to use your reticle for holding over your dope or holding your wind according to what a ballistic calculator says, first focal plane is preferred because the reticle subtensions are accurate at all magnifications. You can absolutely shoot to 1,000 yards with a Vortex HST, they're solid scopes for the money. That's not to say someday you won't want to upgrade, but if your budget is tight and you want to get started, spend that extra $200 on ammo or a class. Editing to add... I just reread your OP and you say $6-700 for a scope. In that range I would definitely be looking for a used PST Gen 1. Now that new PST Gen 2's are out, I've seen some solid deals on gen 1's on the EE here and on Sniper's Hide. You should be able to pick up a used mil/mil FFP PST 6-24 if you keep your eyes peeled. That's probably the best deal out there in glass today. |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 10:29:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NoHarmNoFAL]
[#9]
Can't really ad much more based on the previous solid recommendations but I would tell you from my experience if you are building a quality rig, you probably should consider spending equal money or 20-30% MORE on your optic than the rifle, especially when playing the long range game.
Another piece of advice is buy high quality American or Japanese manufactured glass because clarity and light gathering will be critical. You start to get into high clarity glass in the $600-$800 range and it only goes up from there. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 11:13:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for all the information.
I found a place with refurb gen 1 PST's for 670. But as more of the gen 2's come out, I hope the gen 1 price will drop a bit more. I have been reading the gen2's are backlogged a bit. So once they are out enforce I am hoping the gen 1 owners will upgrade and I can take adantage of that. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 12:31:51 PM EDT
[#11]
forgot to ask.
I had seen mention of the mounts with 20 moa of cant but can't seem to find any, or I don't recognize it when called out. Any links to examples or places I should try to find them? |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 12:37:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewh:
forgot to ask. I had seen mention of the mounts with 20 moa of cant but can't seem to find any, or I don't recognize it when called out. Any links to examples or places I should try to find them? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 1:06:56 PM EDT
[#13]
It is the ar10 psa had on sale recently.
I am really only using the receiver and bolt from it. So I am guessing the rings /mount will have to have this built in instead. |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 1:17:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewh:
It is the ar10 psa had on sale recently. I am really only using the receiver and bolt from it. So I am guessing the rings /mount will have to have this built in instead. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 1:41:28 PM EDT
[#15]
I guess I haven't seen one is my point. nothing calls that out from what I have seen.
I checked vortex's sight since I was looking at their scopes. They just have the cantilever mounts to push it forward, but I didn't see any that called it canted for more elevation adjustment. |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 3:02:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TeeRex]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewh:
I guess I haven't seen one is my point. nothing calls that out from what I have seen. I checked vortex's sight since I was looking at their scopes. They just have the cantilever mounts to push it forward, but I didn't see any that called it canted for more elevation adjustment. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 3:03:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wirebrush:
The high end Bushnell scopes are very high quality glass for the price range as well. They're pretty well represented among PRS shooters and I recently saw a test of top end scopes in which the Bushnell beat out the rest in the long range resolution test. I have a hard time believing they will beat the higher end NF, Vortex, S&B, Kahles (gen 3) etc offerings. The DMRII has good glass, but it's not quite there when compared to some of the other top end scopes. That said, you won't be missing due to the DMRII glass either. OP, in your price range, I'd get a Sightron SIII 6-24x50, either SFP or FFP, and wouldn't look back. Reticle choices are limited, but they will have the highest resolution glass in the 1000$ and under price point, maybe under 1200$. SFP versions can be found around 615-680$, FFP is closer to 850$. If you like high magnification, their 8x32x56 is another good choice. And since you can get the mil discount, you should contact them directly. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 5:20:42 PM EDT
[#18]
TeeRex- Thanks, I also saw a 40 moa mount there, but I guess that is over kill as I read somewhere I only needed a little over 50 total for the 6.5 cm.
But that tells me what to search for for other places too. SuperJlarge- thanks I emailed them about their discount. I read one review where the person perfered the pst, but most of the others say as you that it has better glass than the pst. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 5:49:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Link? I have a hard time believing they will beat the higher end NF, Vortex, S&B, Kahles (gen 3) etc offerings. The DMRII has good glass, but it's not quite there when compared to some of the other top end scopes. That said, you won't be missing due to the DMRII glass either. OP, in your price range, I'd get a Sightron SIII 6-24x50, either SFP or FFP, and wouldn't look back. Reticle choices are limited, but they will have the highest resolution glass in the 1000$ and under price point, maybe under 1200$. SFP versions can be found around 615-680$, FFP is closer to 850$. If you like high magnification, their 8x32x56 is another good choice. And since you can get the mil discount, you should contact them directly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Originally Posted By Wirebrush:
The high end Bushnell scopes are very high quality glass for the price range as well. They're pretty well represented among PRS shooters and I recently saw a test of top end scopes in which the Bushnell beat out the rest in the long range resolution test. I have a hard time believing they will beat the higher end NF, Vortex, S&B, Kahles (gen 3) etc offerings. The DMRII has good glass, but it's not quite there when compared to some of the other top end scopes. That said, you won't be missing due to the DMRII glass either. OP, in your price range, I'd get a Sightron SIII 6-24x50, either SFP or FFP, and wouldn't look back. Reticle choices are limited, but they will have the highest resolution glass in the 1000$ and under price point, maybe under 1200$. SFP versions can be found around 615-680$, FFP is closer to 850$. If you like high magnification, their 8x32x56 is another good choice. And since you can get the mil discount, you should contact them directly. This one done by Precision Rifle Blog is pretty thorough. The Bushnell (which can be found for around a grand) beat out the $7k Schmidt & Bender. http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/ |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2017 8:09:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wirebrush:
This isn't the test I had in mind. It may have been one done by Outdoor life recently. This one done by Precision Rifle Blog is pretty thorough. The Bushnell (which can be found for around a grand) beat out the $7k Schmidt & Bender. http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/ DMR The quote: "It had generous elevation travel, mechanical calibration was about average, and image quality was just below average". |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 9:06:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewh:
TeeRex- Thanks, I also saw a 40 moa mount there, but I guess that is over kill as I read somewhere I only needed a little over 50 total for the 6.5 cm. But that tells me what to search for for other places too. SuperJlarge- thanks I emailed them about their discount. I read one review where the person perfered the pst, but most of the others say as you that it has better glass than the pst. |
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Posted: 9/10/2017 10:03:03 PM EDT
[#22]
When I started out I had a secret service Leupold 10X with mil-dot reticle and 1/4 MOA turrets. It sucked but it would easily get you to a grand.
AR10s are a bitch to shoot. A bolt gun is much more enjoyable for precision shooting IMO. |
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Posted: 9/11/2017 10:34:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish:
If you are shooting 6.5 cm, you'll be way past 2000 meters. You're gonna need a collimator sight and an observer with a decent radio. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Andrewh:
TeeRex- Thanks, I also saw a 40 moa mount there, but I guess that is over kill as I read somewhere I only needed a little over 50 total for the 6.5 cm. But that tells me what to search for for other places too. SuperJlarge- thanks I emailed them about their discount. I read one review where the person perfered the pst, but most of the others say as you that it has better glass than the pst. |
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Posted: 9/11/2017 11:23:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
You're thinking of the 6.5 Grendel. 6.5G gets boring never missing at a mile. |
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Posted: 9/11/2017 1:24:07 PM EDT
[#25]
OP is doing a 6.5CM Creedmoor.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2017 1:26:42 PM EDT
[#26]
I actually interviewed at a place testing an optic that couldn't focus on anything closer than a mile. Was something for a 5 inch gun as I recall.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2017 2:48:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m6z]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wirebrush:
The high end Bushnell scopes are very high quality glass for the price range as well. They're pretty well represented among PRS shooters and I recently saw a test of top end scopes in which the Bushnell beat out the rest in the long range resolution test. Natchez currently has the Weaver 6-30 for $749. Great deal IMO. Made in Japan, zero stop, 34mm tube, 10 mil turrets, etc. Weaver 6-30 EMDR I'd go with the Weaver or one of the fixed SWFA scopes if I wanted to keep it cheap. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2017 11:47:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish:
I was sarcastically pointing out that 6.5 CM is twice the caliber of the (30mm) main gun on an A-10. 6.5 cm is a cannon. Literally. Presumably the OP is planning 6.5mm. 
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Posted: 9/12/2017 2:52:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By geauxtac308:
FAIL...lol. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2017 6:33:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m6z:
The Bushnell DMR II and HDMR II are great options if you can spend the cash. Natchez currently has the Weaver 6-30 for $749. Great deal IMO. Made in Japan, zero stop, 34mm tube, 10 mil turrets, etc. Weaver 6-30 EMDR I'd go with the Weaver or one of the fixed SWFA scopes if I wanted to keep it cheap. At 750, that is a bit higher than I want to spend and is higher than I see the sightron or vortex FFP. even the refurb gen 1 is about 100 less. Is the scope that much better? |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2017 12:14:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Eh... he should have used caps. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By geauxtac308:
FAIL...lol. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2017 9:47:05 AM EDT
[#32]
I would spend the major money on a good scope. It can be moved from rifle to rifle as you change what you are shooting. Then you don't have to upgrade the scope when you upgrade the rifle. I went with the Vortex Viper 6-24x50 PST FFP Mrad. It cost more than the rifle I put it on but that's OK.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2017 9:41:31 PM EDT
[#33]
looks like FFP is the way to go.
no matter what it seems I am spending more on the optics now than the gun. Sightron confirmed I qualify for the .mil discount so now I just have to decide that or the vortex. gen 1. I guess I am leaning towards the sightron. Anyone know if they do black friday sales that count towards the .mil discount?  I mean it is great, but it is just a touch higher than I wanted to spend right now.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2017 12:22:59 AM EDT
[#34]
Since it's directly from them, I wouldn't expect any promotional sales to be factored in or available at a later date. For reference, most civilians would be paying north of 850$ for that scope in FFP.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/15/2017 9:20:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Figured. But never hurts to ask. Just have to decide on a recticule now.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2017 1:00:53 PM EDT
[#36]
so bringing this back up as I did more research.
not realizing a lot of scope makers have vet discounts, I found NF has them too. But even with the discount, it is way out of my budget. Burris does, Weaver doesn't seem to. But it still takes me back to the same 2 brands. Vortex and Sightron. FFP might be nice, but it maxes out at 24x. It seems some more magnification couldn't hurt and sightron 8x32 and the 10X50's are in about the same price range as their FFP 6x24. I kind of want the 10x50 but the total W/E adjustment is only 50 moa. vs the 8x32, 70 moa. Is the 50 moa enough with a 20moa base? OR is that too close to bottoming out the scope with only 5moa of possible play? Are mirages really that bad, that past 24x I won't be able to use the extra magnification? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2017 11:54:25 PM EDT
[#37]
First piece of glass - get an SWFA fixed power optic if you're on a budget. Decent optic at a decent price. Available in 10x, 12x, 16x, & 20x. Conventional wisdom suggests that for 1000 yards, 10x, 12, or at most 16x should be adequate.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2017 11:13:16 AM EDT
[#38]
Maybe it is me. At 9x for only 100 yards, I feel I need more magnification to keep my point of aim the same. I don't see enough of the target being so small.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2017 11:38:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Reorx]
[#39]
Originally Posted By Andrewh:
Maybe it is me. At 9x for only 100 yards, I feel I need more magnification to keep my point of aim the same. I don't see enough of the target being so small.
What size are your targets??? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2017 12:22:37 PM EDT
[#40]
No idea. Whatever they hand out at the range. And in this case I never looked at it close up as it was a digital target. I am guessing standard nra 100 yard target.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2017 12:37:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Reorx]
[#41]
A "standard" NRA 100 yard rifle target (SR-1) has a black area (center) that is 6.35" - this is the 9 ring. Inside the 9 ring, the 10 ring is 3.35" and the X ring is 1.35". That quarter sized dot that I was talking about is a little smaller than the X ring.
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Posted: 10/2/2017 12:43:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Get the Weaver 6-30 from Natchez. Great scope at a really good price. 10 mil turrets, first focal plane, illuminated, 26.2 mil of elevation travel - and it's got glass from Light Optical Works (LOW) in Japan. That's the same company who cuts Razor, Nightforce and Bushnell XRS glass. The only thing it's missing is a better reticle, but the EMDR is workable. It just would be nicer with a Christmas tree style reticle and smaller hash marks. The glass on it is really bright. I'm tempted to buy a few more while they're available cheap.
https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-super-slam-tactical-rifle-scope-6-30x56mm-34mm.html I'm going to be doing some more glass comparison between it and my Razor soon. https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_5/6746_Anyone-using-the-Weaver-Tactical-6-30x56FFP-.html 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2017 2:40:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Ugh. This site just costs me more. Keep inching up my choices by cost. Though reading about weavers warranty, not sure if it is a good idea.
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Posted: 10/8/2017 11:41:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewh:
Ugh. This site just costs me more. Keep inching up my choices by cost. Though reading about weavers warranty, not sure if it is a good idea. I have more money than skill, and I can tell you that the gen 1 6-24x50 Viper PST and HST will be fine for your application, because even the Razor AMG won't get you hits at 1000 unless youre shooting a sheet of plywood. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2017 12:26:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: castlebravo84]
[#45]
My PST 6-24x50mm works great. I hit a 3" plate at 1,000 yards twice this morning with that scope on a Savage 10BA Stealth in 6.5 CM shooting my 147 ELD-M hand loads. I'm not the worlds best shot, and I'm not shooting a $3k custom rifle, so it took me a box of ammo to do it, but I've never felt the glass was holding me back. I did place an order for that Weaver 6-30x56mm though. $750 is IMO a steal for a 34mm tube with Japanese LOW glass; I paid more than that for my PST 6-24x50mm!
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2017 2:46:29 PM EDT
[#46]
I am just building it now.
I just got it to the point where it can be fired, but have a few parts left to buy like the optic. That weaver is just a touch more than I want to spend. I hear it is as good as it gets glass wise, but the retical leaves something to be desired. But it does put it right where I want magnification wise and FFP. The weaver CS seems to be lacking however, if there is some issue based on what I have read. And is it enough of a difference that I would notice over the sightron or pst? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2017 9:17:35 AM EDT
[#47]
well they had a 10 percent off sale today, so I ordered the weaver.
figured worst case it is worth what I paid and it brings it in line with the other 2 chioces or within 20 bucks. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/16/2017 11:25:45 AM EDT
[#48]
I'm going to say SWFA fixed 16x, it's got good glass and decent turrets for a budget scope, For the price it's a great buy. I've got mine mounted on a Tikka CTR T3x in 308 and was running it hard this weekend hitting 16x16 steel targets at 800 and 950. That's as far as I can stretch it right now till we do some more brush clearing. I bought scope to get the feel for shooting long distance and wanted to keep my set up under $1200. $805 rifle shipped and FFL fee, $265 scope from SWFA mil/leo discount free shipping and $45 for a DNZ one piece mount shipped from amazon. Now I'm looking at their 12x model for a 223 psp. I'm definitely sold on the SWFA line of fixed power scopes.
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