Posted: 1/15/2017 2:13:55 PM EDT
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Looking at a few different scopes and keep coming back to the Steiner M5xi series and Vortex Razor HD Gen II, 3-15 and 3-18 specifically. I don't know of anywhere close to check them out in person, anyone have thoughts on how they compare? Going on a Tikka t3x ctr 308. Will be used primarily for target shooting but also used hunting. Max range where I hunt would be about 400 but wouldn't mind playing around out to 800ish at my range, once in a while...
Another question would be, I was first looking at the Burris XTR II 3-15 and Nightforce SHV 4-14 scopes originally. Stepping up to the Steiner or Vortex is stretching my budget but doable... (worth the extra cost for someone that doesn't get out to shoot as often as he would like?) Also anyone have suggestions on other scopes I should be looking at, that compare favorably to these? |
| I've been able to directly compare at a recent optics show at a match and that actually helped me make some decisions. Vortex is super heavy even upside the already heavy Steiner. I couldn't see any useful differences in the image from the glass looking from 50-500m. I love the turrets on the Vortex and the 2C reticle is great though I wish they'd added a center dot. Wasn't allowed to mess with the turrets on the Steiner (we had a match just after the optics show). You can pick up 3-18x Gen 2 Razors on snipershide right now for around 1700-1900 bucks. I liked the Vortex so much that I sold all 3 of my US Optics scopes and switched to Vortex Razor Gen II's. Despite the just fantastic weight of the Razor II's I've not been this happy with a scope since my USO ST-10. I've looked through the Burris, it's fine but I wasn't super impressed. Something about the way the reticle felt to the eye. Image was fine but the "feel" of the reticle was uncomfortable for some reason. The owner of that scope turns in increasing scores every time he goes out. Still, even if the NF or Burris are great they're less expensive for a reason. If you can add a fully top shelf optic to your safe, I say do it. I'd happily take a tier 1 scope and move it rifle to rifle as needed than buy 3 tier 2 scopes. High dollar optics really hold value pretty well especially when compared to the next notch down. |
| Tough choice there, both of those optics have excellent reps. I've been thinking about upgrading my Bushnell ERS, and I've looked at both of those and the Minox. Right now I'm leaning toward the Vortex Gen II simply because of the ease of the zero stop, and it's going on a switch barrel set up. |
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Do you ever get up to Lincoln, NE OP? If so DE Guns has both of them there right now to look thru (they have the T5Xi). Scheel's has the 4-16 ATACR as well.
I did the same comparison as you are doing now last year and wound up with the Gen II Razor 3-18. The glass is excellent on all of them. The locking turrets on the Gen II can be a good or bad thing depending on your preferences. Do you want MIL reticle only or is MOA alright? If MOA is fine then IM me and I will send you a link to a smoking deal on a Gen II 3-18 Razor from an authorized dealer. The Gen II Razor is nice but it is HEAVY. My AIAT with Gen II Razor weighs 17lbs with a bipod and sling: 
I just got a Tikka T3 CTR and it weighs just under 11lbs with a bipod, sling, and SS SWFA 10X HD which weighs 20oz compared to the 46oz Gen II Razor: 
If you plan on leaving your CTR in the factory stock or a light chassis I probably wouldn't get the GEN II Razor unless I saw a great deal (see above  ). I would look at the Steiner, NF ATACR (used probably), or the Bushnell DMR II/IIi that is now now. The Bushnell is a nice optic and will serve you well.
If I were buying a scope for my CTR today I would buy a Bushnell DMR II/IIi as they aren't horribly heavy, have very good glass, and the original DMR's have a great track record. There are still good deals out there for original DMR's too. ETA: I misread M5Xi for T5Xi...I fail. |
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Do you ever get up to Lincoln, NE OP? If so DE Guns has both of them there right now to look thru (they have the T5Xi). Scheel's has the 4-16 ATACR as well. I did the same comparison as you are doing now last year and wound up with the Gen II Razor 3-18. The glass is excellent on all of them. The locking turrets on the Gen II can be a good or bad thing depending on your preferences. Do you want MIL reticle only or is MOA alright? If MOA is fine then IM me and I will send you a link to a smoking deal on a Gen II 3-18 Razor from an authorized dealer. The Gen II Razor is nice but it is HEAVY. My AIAT with Gen II Razor weighs 17lbs with a bipod and sling: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70611913/ImageHosting/2016-08-28%2016.32.18.jpg I just got a Tikka T3 CTR and it weighs just under 11lbs with a bipod, sling, and SS SWFA 10X HD which weighs 20oz compared to the 46oz Gen II Razor: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70611913/ImageHosting/2017-01-14%2009.08.58.jpg If you plan on leaving your CTR in the factory stock or a light chassis I probably wouldn't get the GEN II Razor unless I saw a great deal (see above ). I would look at the Steiner, NF ATACR (used probably), or the Bushnell DMR II/IIi that is now now. The Bushnell is a nice optic and will serve you well.
If I were buying a scope for my CTR today I would buy a Bushnell DMR II/IIi as they aren't horribly heavy, have very good glass, and the original DMR's have a great track record. There are still good deals out there for original DMR's too. ETA: I misread M5Xi for T5Xi...I fail. I don't ever make it up that way but thanks for the heads up. I ended up going with a Gen II Razor already, I am hoping it will be here Friday. It is a MOA, not Mil. ( I am completely new to long range shooting so I hope that wasn't a mistake...) I am afraid to ask about the price of the one you know of. 
Not sure what I'll do with the CTR, as far as the factory stock goes, it is my first and right now only rifle for precision shooting. |
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I don't come down there much either but it was worth mentioning I thought at least.
Mile High Shooting has that model Razor for $1850 right now. MOA is a good choice the biggest thing is getting a reticle and turret that match which you did. I like my Razor a lot it is just heavy. The factory stock is very nice and I actually decided not to get a chassis. I bet you will love your setup! |
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I don't come down there much either but it was worth mentioning I thought at least. Mile High Shooting has that model Razor for $1850 right now. MOA is a good choice the biggest thing is getting a reticle and turret that match which you did. I like my Razor a lot it is just heavy. The factory stock is very nice and I actually decided not to get a chassis. I bet you will love your setup! I'm planning on picking up one in 6.5 Creedmoor instead of Ruger Precision Rifle. Any advise? I have a NF 4-14 F1 for this setup. |
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How do you like your Tikka CTR? I'm planning on picking up one in 6.5 Creedmoor instead of Ruger Precision Rifle. Any advise? I have a NF 4-14 F1 for this setup. I got my 308 Tikka T3 CTR on closeout here but they have 260 as well on closeout. Bud's Gun Shop has Hornady 260 match ammo now that is priced the same as 6.5CM too which is nice. I really see no advantage to the 6.5CM now that Hornady is churning out 260 ammo for the same price and you can make 260 brass from 243 brass in a pinch which is nice. It also is based off of the 308 cartridge so any 308 magazine should work flawlessly with the 260. My CTR showed up and I shot it for the first time on Saturday. I was very impressed with it! I regret ever buying the R700's and the Savage's now that I have ever owned and wish I would have just purchased the Tikka instead. Honestly, I consider it to be enough rifle for most people (me included) as it comes from the factory to the point I even considered selling my AIAT and pocketing the $3K difference. The AI is a better system overall (more rugged, cheaper magazines, quick change barrels, shorter bolt throw but not by much, etc.) but the CTR will do probably 90% of what the AI will do for most people unless you need the utmost ruggedness and quick change barrels of the AIAT. The CTR is also much lighter than the AIAT. I was debating whether or not to get an X-RAY for my CTR as I really like the factory stock but I decided against it as the factory stock is really good in reality and I like the 10rd short TRG/CTR magazines over the AICS magazines. If you want to use a stock pack (mine is the Triad Tactical stock pad) and keep the factory stock rings in the 1.1" range are perfect for me and would allow you clearance with the 50mm objective of the NF. You can verify the clearance here. |
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I got my 308 Tikka T3 CTR on closeout here but they have 260 as well on closeout. Bud's Gun Shop has Hornady 260 match ammo now that is priced the same as 6.5CM too which is nice. I really see no advantage to the 6.5CM now that Hornady is churning out 260 ammo for the same price and you can make 260 brass from 243 brass in a pinch which is nice. It also is based off of the 308 cartridge so any 308 magazine should work flawlessly with the 260. My CTR showed up and I shot it for the first time on Saturday. I was very impressed with it! I regret ever buying the R700's and the Savage's now that I have ever owned and wish I would have just purchased the Tikka instead. Honestly, I consider it to be enough rifle for most people (me included) as it comes from the factory to the point I even considered selling my AIAT and pocketing the $3K difference. The AI is a better system overall (more rugged, cheaper magazines, quick change barrels, shorter bolt throw but not by much, etc.) but the CTR will do probably 90% of what the AI will do for most people unless you need the utmost ruggedness and quick change barrels of the AIAT. The CTR is also much lighter than the AIAT. I was debating whether or not to get an X-RAY for my CTR as I really like the factory stock but I decided against it as the factory stock is really good in reality and I like the 10rd short TRG/CTR magazines over the AICS magazines. If you want to use a stock pack (mine is the Triad Tactical stock pad) and keep the factory stock rings in the 1.1" range are perfect for me and would allow you clearance with the 50mm objective of the NF. You can verify the clearance here. Solid advice, thanks! The 260 has about the same BC as 6.5 CM so it would make sense to go with the 260 for more magazine versatility. I really like the CTR over the RPR because of it's compact size and light weight. 20" barrel is enough for me to reach out to 1000 yd. max. I'll leave the factory stock as is, don't really care about high speed chassis. I already have a pair EGW rings 1.25" for the NF. I may have to build a cheek riser once the scope is mounted, no biggie. Thanks for the scope clearance link, didn't know about that. I usually check Midway since they have a chart on their website. |
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Solid advice, thanks! The 260 has about the same BC as 6.5 CM so it would make sense to go with the 260 for more magazine versatility. I really like the CTR over the RPR because of it's compact size and light weight. 20" barrel is enough for me to reach out to 1000 yd. max. I'll leave the factory stock as is, don't really care about high speed chassis. I already have a pair EGW rings 1.25" for the NF. I may have to build a cheek riser once the scope is mounted, no biggie. Thanks for the scope clearance link, didn't know about that. I usually check Midway since they have a chart on their website. Glad I could help! If the stock was crap I would change it but it really is good with very little flex and it fits me perfectly. If you get the stock pad from Triad Tactical it should be enough to get you a proper cheek weld as it has a few spacers that it comes with as well. I like mine a lot now after getting it despite never having used one before. |