Posted: 3/29/2016 8:38:05 PM EDT
| Just a question on mounting a scope higher to gain more elevation, if possible. Am zero'd at 100 yards. Turret is more than a third to max rotation. If I raise the scope from current rings at 0.87 to say 1.25, will i just gain 1/2 inch in elevation? Don't have the money for another scope at this time so want to try make this scope useful. Thanks. |
| I don't think that raising the height of your rings will affect elevation, but higher rings/mounts will allow more clearance for the objective of your scope and allow you to use rings/mounts with built in inclination. Said rings/mounts will get you lower in the turret's adjustment at your 100 yard zero and consequently give you more UP adjustment when you need it at distance. I don't know how much total travel your elevation turret has, but I personally like 30 MOA of inclination in my mounts. |
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It doesn't work like that Bearcat. Look for rings or a base that say something like 20 MOA base. That will do like the reply above me is talking about.
If your optic has 60 MOA of travel, that is approximately 30 MOA of up travel and 30 MOA of down travel. If you install a 20 MOA base or rings, now you would have 50 MOA of up travel and 10 MOA of down travel. Some new rifles, such as my RPR, come with a 20 MOA base from the factory |
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Here is a pic of the rifle, a savage 10T from cabelas.... http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/centerfire-rifles/bolt-action-centerfire-rifles|/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105522480/i/105523380/savage-174-arms-model-10t-tactical-bolt-action-rifle/1695199.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fbolt-action-centerfire-rifles%2Fsavage-arms%2F_%2FN-1114860%2B1000004563%2FNe-1000004563%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105523380%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU
Have always read you want the scope as close to the barrel as possible. If I change out the rail to a 20 moa, the scope will be up pretty high. My SWFA SS works great without needing the 20 MOA rail but the nikon m308 needs the height. Didn't want it so high I am stretching my neck for a good sight picture. |
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Raising the scope you actually lose elevation. The higher you go the more up adjustment it takes for the scope to get zero. The best thing to do would have a canted mount or base. That's really the only way for you to get more of the scopes travel. People preach the scope should be low, but can't ever tell you why. Good sight picture and cheek weld is important, much more so than scope height. My precision bolt rifles all have adjustable cheek pieces and are all either in 1.26 or 2.45" mounts. There are some stock packs like the one from triad that can help get you up a little higher if you need it. |
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I can tell you why a low scope is better, less can't error and cheek weld, both of which are easily fixed. Get a scope level and raise the comb, simple.
Op do a tall target and box test on that Nikon before going any farther with it. Raising the scope does nothing, you need an MOA base. |
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Get a scope level and raise the comb, simple. . Can you explain? Don't understand "the comb". I just picked up 1 inch high rings to see for myself if much change. Burris extreme that cost 50 bucks. If I don't see much difference, will save the pennies for another SS scope. Thanks for all the replies. |
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Can you explain? Don't understand "the comb". I just picked up 1 inch high rings to see for myself if much change. Burris extreme that cost 50 bucks. If I don't see much difference, will save the pennies for another SS scope. Thanks for all the replies. Quoted:
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Get a scope level and raise the comb, simple. . Can you explain? Don't understand "the comb". I just picked up 1 inch high rings to see for myself if much change. Burris extreme that cost 50 bucks. If I don't see much difference, will save the pennies for another SS scope. Thanks for all the replies. You just wasted $50. They are good rings but as I and a couple others tried to point out, they won't do what you want. We have given you good advise but you ignored it. No need in me wasting any more of my time |
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Quoted:
Can you explain? Don't understand "the comb". I just picked up 1 inch high rings to see for myself if much change. Burris extreme that cost 50 bucks. If I don't see much difference, will save the pennies for another SS scope. Thanks for all the replies. Quoted:
Quoted:
Get a scope level and raise the comb, simple. . Can you explain? Don't understand "the comb". I just picked up 1 inch high rings to see for myself if much change. Burris extreme that cost 50 bucks. If I don't see much difference, will save the pennies for another SS scope. Thanks for all the replies. You will be disappointed in your findings. Like other have said you need a MOA base or MOA rings to gain more travel. But if you do install the rings post the results but you should return them. |
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A 20 MOA base or ring set might not raise the eyepiece and alter cheek weld very much.. It is more likely to slope downward at the front and push the objective lens down toward the barrel, thus raising the point of impact relative to the point of aim of the scope, giving your more elevation range.
Same Sako bolt gun and Weaver scope in two photos below. First one has zero MOA Leupold rings in the Sako dovetail base pattern. Lower one has 20 MOA Sako rings. Note the difference in how close the objective lens is to the barrel but how the eyepiece is still about the same. While the zero MOA rings are actually a bit higher to begin with, you can actually see the downward slope of the 20 MOA rings in relationship to the action and barrel in the second photo. That is what you want to gain elevation travel. This forces you to turn the elevation turret in a down from center position to zero the scope and gives you more "clicks" of up elevation range. For this application where no one piece base is involved, the front 20 MOA ring is actually machined shorter and both rings have the bore machined at an angle to point the scope front downward. A one piece mount would typically build the downward slope in the base rather than the rings. 
Burris XTR Signature rings can do this with sloped inserts in the rings if you want to use a regular base. http://www.burrisoptics.com/mounting-systems/rings/xtr-signature-rings |
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Quoted:
A 20 MOA base or ring set might not raise the eyepiece and alter cheek weld very much.. It is more likely to slope downward at the front and push the objective lens down toward the barrel, thus raising the point of impact relative to the point of aim of the scope, giving your more elevation range. Same Sako bolt gun and Weaver scope in two photos below. First one has zero MOA Leupold rings in the Sako dovetail base pattern. Lower one has 20 MOA Sako rings. Note the difference in how close the objective lens is to the barrel but how the eyepiece is still about the same. While the zero MOA rings are actually a bit higher to begin with, you can actually see the downward slope of the 20 MOA rings in relationship to the action and barrel in the second photo. That is what you want to gain elevation travel. This forces you to turn the elevation turret in a down from center position to zero the scope and gives you more "clicks" of up elevation range. For this application where no one piece base is involved, the front 20 MOA ring is actually machined shorter and both rings have the bore machined at an angle to point the scope front downward. A one piece mount would typically build the downward slope in the base rather than the rings. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/6A8CDD4C-3F94-48C3-ADF7-D2B41ABE1C95_zpsqj073ftd.jpg http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/57CD3880-987A-43D1-A7E4-7C7CB2DFF970_zpsdeappz98.jpg Burris XTR Signature rings can do this with sloped inserts in the rings if you want to use a regular base. http://www.burrisoptics.com/mounting-systems/rings/xtr-signature-rings They look the same (the rings) but see where your going. Glad I didn't open the package so can return them. So those rings are specific front and back, correct? Anyone else besides burris making those? Since its sloped, do the rings need to be a curtain distance apart? Appreciate your explanation. Thick skull i guess. 
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They look the same (the rings) but see where your going. Glad I didn't open the package so can return them. So those rings are specific front and back, correct? Anyone else besides burris making those? Since its sloped, do the rings need to be a curtain distance apart? Appreciate your explanation. Thick skull i guess. Quoted:
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A 20 MOA base or ring set might not raise the eyepiece and alter cheek weld very much.. It is more likely to slope downward at the front and push the objective lens down toward the barrel, thus raising the point of impact relative to the point of aim of the scope, giving your more elevation range. Same Sako bolt gun and Weaver scope in two photos below. First one has zero MOA Leupold rings in the Sako dovetail base pattern. Lower one has 20 MOA Sako rings. Note the difference in how close the objective lens is to the barrel but how the eyepiece is still about the same. While the zero MOA rings are actually a bit higher to begin with, you can actually see the downward slope of the 20 MOA rings in relationship to the action and barrel in the second photo. That is what you want to gain elevation travel. This forces you to turn the elevation turret in a down from center position to zero the scope and gives you more "clicks" of up elevation range. For this application where no one piece base is involved, the front 20 MOA ring is actually machined shorter and both rings have the bore machined at an angle to point the scope front downward. A one piece mount would typically build the downward slope in the base rather than the rings. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/6A8CDD4C-3F94-48C3-ADF7-D2B41ABE1C95_zpsqj073ftd.jpg http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/57CD3880-987A-43D1-A7E4-7C7CB2DFF970_zpsdeappz98.jpg Burris XTR Signature rings can do this with sloped inserts in the rings if you want to use a regular base. http://www.burrisoptics.com/mounting-systems/rings/xtr-signature-rings They look the same (the rings) but see where your going. Glad I didn't open the package so can return them. So those rings are specific front and back, correct? Anyone else besides burris making those? Since its sloped, do the rings need to be a curtain distance apart? Appreciate your explanation. Thick skull i guess. The Sako receiver has tapered dovetails, the rear and front rings are different and will not interchange as the two dovetails are not the same width. It is a unique system. But, for your rifle, the Burris Signature rings would work well. Both rings are the same. The MOA slope is in the ring inserts. I have used them on other rifles, and they work well. They can even compensate for windage issues such as when receiver mount holes are drilled off axis at the factory. Very versatile in solving turret adjustment range problems. |
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The Sako receiver has tapered dovetails, the rear and front rings are different and will not interchange as the two dovetails are not the same width. It is a unique system. But, for your rifle, the Burris Signature rings would work well. Both rings are the same. The MOA slope is in the ring inserts. I have used them on other rifles, and they work well. They can even compensate for windage issues such as when receiver mount holes are drilled off axis at the factory. Very versatile in solving turret adjustment range problems. Quoted:
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A 20 MOA base or ring set might not raise the eyepiece and alter cheek weld very much.. It is more likely to slope downward at the front and push the objective lens down toward the barrel, thus raising the point of impact relative to the point of aim of the scope, giving your more elevation range. Same Sako bolt gun and Weaver scope in two photos below. First one has zero MOA Leupold rings in the Sako dovetail base pattern. Lower one has 20 MOA Sako rings. Note the difference in how close the objective lens is to the barrel but how the eyepiece is still about the same. While the zero MOA rings are actually a bit higher to begin with, you can actually see the downward slope of the 20 MOA rings in relationship to the action and barrel in the second photo. That is what you want to gain elevation travel. This forces you to turn the elevation turret in a down from center position to zero the scope and gives you more "clicks" of up elevation range. For this application where no one piece base is involved, the front 20 MOA ring is actually machined shorter and both rings have the bore machined at an angle to point the scope front downward. A one piece mount would typically build the downward slope in the base rather than the rings. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/6A8CDD4C-3F94-48C3-ADF7-D2B41ABE1C95_zpsqj073ftd.jpg http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/57CD3880-987A-43D1-A7E4-7C7CB2DFF970_zpsdeappz98.jpg Burris XTR Signature rings can do this with sloped inserts in the rings if you want to use a regular base. http://www.burrisoptics.com/mounting-systems/rings/xtr-signature-rings They look the same (the rings) but see where your going. Glad I didn't open the package so can return them. So those rings are specific front and back, correct? Anyone else besides burris making those? Since its sloped, do the rings need to be a curtain distance apart? Appreciate your explanation. Thick skull i guess. The Sako receiver has tapered dovetails, the rear and front rings are different and will not interchange as the two dovetails are not the same width. It is a unique system. But, for your rifle, the Burris Signature rings would work well. Both rings are the same. The MOA slope is in the ring inserts. I have used them on other rifles, and they work well. They can even compensate for windage issues such as when receiver mount holes are drilled off axis at the factory. Very versatile in solving turret adjustment range problems. Those would be especially effective on a Savage due to them having issues with the receiver not being drilled on axis. That is one of the reasons I bought these rings in anticipation of buying a Savage Stealth when they are released. |
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Quoted:
Can you explain? Don't understand "the comb". I just picked up 1 inch high rings to see for myself if much change. Burris extreme that cost 50 bucks. If I don't see much difference, will save the pennies for another SS scope. Thanks for all the replies. Quoted:
Quoted:
Get a scope level and raise the comb, simple. . Can you explain? Don't understand "the comb". I just picked up 1 inch high rings to see for myself if much change. Burris extreme that cost 50 bucks. If I don't see much difference, will save the pennies for another SS scope. Thanks for all the replies. I was addressing why people say to mount scopes low and that those reasons are easily fixed. A higher mounted scope will have more error if canted but just mounting a scope level solves that problem. The other problem of cheek weld can be solved by raising the comb to reacquire proper cheek weld....to a certain point(conventional stocks are probably limited as to how high one can go). Here is mine with a 40moa base, obviously tapered. Note how high I had to raise the comb. 
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Is it better to change the rail or get the 20 MOA rings? I found a 20 MOA rail at midwayusa for the savage. Doesn't look much different than what came with mine though.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/461359/egw-1-piece-picatinny-style-20-moa-elevated-base-savage-10-through-16-flat-rear-short-action-matte |
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Is it better to change the rail or get the 20 MOA rings? I found a 20 MOA rail at midwayusa for the savage. Doesn't look much different than what came with mine though. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/461359/egw-1-piece-picatinny-style-20-moa-elevated-base-savage-10-through-16-flat-rear-short-action-matte If you need rings anyway, buy those rings. If you already have rings, go with the cheapest option. |
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Already have low (0.76) seekin rings, Then bought 1 inch high burris rings to try but didn't open them. I like the seekins. Think I will order the 20 MOA rail as that seems a better option. EGW rails are great and what I use but see if they have the EGW HD rail for your rifle. They are much stronger and not much more money. |
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EGW rails are great and what I use but see if they have the EGW HD rail for your rifle. They are much stronger and not much more money. Quoted:
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Already have low (0.76) seekin rings, Then bought 1 inch high burris rings to try but didn't open them. I like the seekins. Think I will order the 20 MOA rail as that seems a better option. EGW rails are great and what I use but see if they have the EGW HD rail for your rifle. They are much stronger and not much more money. Like this one? http://swfa.com/EGW-HD-Picatinny-Rail-1-Piece-Scope-Mount-P45927.aspx |
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Like this one? http://swfa.com/EGW-HD-Picatinny-Rail-1-Piece-Scope-Mount-P45927.aspx Quoted:
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Already have low (0.76) seekin rings, Then bought 1 inch high burris rings to try but didn't open them. I like the seekins. Think I will order the 20 MOA rail as that seems a better option. EGW rails are great and what I use but see if they have the EGW HD rail for your rifle. They are much stronger and not much more money. Like this one? http://swfa.com/EGW-HD-Picatinny-Rail-1-Piece-Scope-Mount-P45927.aspx Yes, that's the one. |
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Yes, that's the one. Quoted:
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Already have low (0.76) seekin rings, Then bought 1 inch high burris rings to try but didn't open them. I like the seekins. Think I will order the 20 MOA rail as that seems a better option. EGW rails are great and what I use but see if they have the EGW HD rail for your rifle. They are much stronger and not much more money. Like this one? http://swfa.com/EGW-HD-Picatinny-Rail-1-Piece-Scope-Mount-P45927.aspx Yes, that's the one. Thanks. Just ordered. |
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I just looked at the rifle you listed. Is that the one you're buying or already have? I see it comes with a rail already and it kinda looks angled to my eyes but doesn't specify on the website. I have it in both 308 and 6.5cm. Its a 0 MOA rail. Web site doesn't state anything and savage doesn't list the setup on there website. Its a cabelas exclusive. Had to remove it to get the chassis on it. Measured the rail on both ends. Same measurement. |
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I have it in both 308 and 6.5cm. Its a 0 MOA rail. Web site doesn't state anything and savage doesn't list the setup on there website. Its a cabelas exclusive. Had to remove it to get the chassis on it. Measured the rail on both ends. Same measurement. Quoted:
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I just looked at the rifle you listed. Is that the one you're buying or already have? I see it comes with a rail already and it kinda looks angled to my eyes but doesn't specify on the website. I have it in both 308 and 6.5cm. Its a 0 MOA rail. Web site doesn't state anything and savage doesn't list the setup on there website. Its a cabelas exclusive. Had to remove it to get the chassis on it. Measured the rail on both ends. Same measurement. Ok, good. Didn't want you to get the EGW rail and have you having a 20 MOA rail already. |
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Quoted: Got to the range. the 20 MOA rail did the trick. Counted my clicks when I got home. Have more than enough for 1000 yards. Just have to order custom turrets for the 178 gr pills so I can just dial instead of counting clicks. Learn to use your scope correctly. Things change with pressure etc. |
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Got to the range. the 20 MOA rail did the trick. Counted my clicks when I got home. Have more than enough for 1000 yards. Just have to order custom turrets for the 178 gr pills so I can just dial instead of counting clicks. Dialing for distance with custom turrets will be disappointing once you get beyond 500 yards, if not sooner. You need click adjustments, MOA or MIL and preferably a reticle with matching subtensions. The effects of baro pressure, temp, angle and changes in BC of the bullet as velocity drops over distance have to be considered. You will need to work up dope. Your money might be better spent on ballistic software, a chrono, and spend some time behind the gun. |
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Got to the range. the 20 MOA rail did the trick. Counted my clicks when I got home. Have more than enough for 1000 yards. Just have to order custom turrets for the 178 gr pills so I can just dial instead of counting clicks. What type of turrets do you have now? If that's the Nikon scope you mentioned it comes with custom or MOA. I can't tell from the pic but nice looking setup BTW. |
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Dialing for distance with custom turrets will be disappointing once you get beyond 500 yards, if not sooner. You need click adjustments, MOA or MIL and preferably a reticle with matching subtensions. The effects of baro pressure, temp, angle and changes in BC of the bullet as velocity drops over distance have to be considered. You will need to work up dope. Your money might be better spent on ballistic software, a chrono, and spend some time behind the gun. Quoted:
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Got to the range. the 20 MOA rail did the trick. Counted my clicks when I got home. Have more than enough for 1000 yards. Just have to order custom turrets for the 178 gr pills so I can just dial instead of counting clicks. Dialing for distance with custom turrets will be disappointing once you get beyond 500 yards, if not sooner. You need click adjustments, MOA or MIL and preferably a reticle with matching subtensions. The effects of baro pressure, temp, angle and changes in BC of the bullet as velocity drops over distance have to be considered. You will need to work up dope. Your money might be better spent on ballistic software, a chrono, and spend some time behind the gun. I do have chrono and ballistic app on my iphone. This scope has the nikoplex reticle (no hash marks). This scope is made to dial in using the turret yard markers labeled on the turret. Currently set for 168 gr bullets. Will go take a pic and post. Spent all last summer developing a sweet load and when the ELD's came out, developed for that to. Currently 178 ELD is varget @43.9 gr with 2.800 OAL. Talked to Hornady about this bullet to find the scoop on loading. Was told to load just like the A-Max. M308 Scroll down to the rapid action turrets 
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| Not sure if I am reading into this but you folks real good with scopes please take a look at this turret. Its currently set at 100 yards for when I went to the range and I set it there. Now, look at the travel to 200 yards. Then look at the direction the arrows are pointing in correlation to moving from 100 to 200 yards. If I go to 200 yards, according to the arrows, I am going up. But to go further I should be dialing down. Is this backwards or am I reading this wrong? I know my ballistic app tells me to go minus X amount of clicks to go further. When I go back to the range, will be shooting 200 yards and see what happens but my ballistic app tells me to go -6 clicks, which is down 6 clicks. Already emailed nikon on the subject. Appreciate any feedback. |
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Not sure if I am reading into this but you folks real good with scopes please take a look at this turret. Its currently set at 100 yards for when I went to the range and I set it there. Now, look at the travel to 200 yards. Then look at the direction the arrows are pointing in correlation to moving from 100 to 200 yards. If I go to 200 yards, according to the arrows, I am going up. But to go further I should be dialing down. Is this backwards or am I reading this wrong? I know my ballistic app tells me to go minus X amount of clicks to go further. When I go back to the range, will be shooting 200 yards and see what happens but my ballistic app tells me to go -6 clicks, which is down 6 clicks. Already emailed nikon on the subject. Appreciate any feedback. When you move the turrets up it actually moves the reticle down. Look through your scope and dial your turrets. |
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Quoted: When you move the turrets up it actually moves the reticle down. Look through your scope and dial your turrets. Quoted: Quoted: Not sure if I am reading into this but you folks real good with scopes please take a look at this turret. Its currently set at 100 yards for when I went to the range and I set it there. Now, look at the travel to 200 yards. Then look at the direction the arrows are pointing in correlation to moving from 100 to 200 yards. If I go to 200 yards, according to the arrows, I am going up. But to go further I should be dialing down. Is this backwards or am I reading this wrong? I know my ballistic app tells me to go minus X amount of clicks to go further. When I go back to the range, will be shooting 200 yards and see what happens but my ballistic app tells me to go -6 clicks, which is down 6 clicks. Already emailed nikon on the subject. Appreciate any feedback. When you move the turrets up it actually moves the reticle down. Look through your scope and dial your turrets. |
| The 20 MOA rail was the correct option. Before I was not able to dial out beyond 725 using the turret the way it's designed to dial. I can now adjust (by clicks) to over 1000 yards. Just seemed weird how this looked dialing but guessing this scope is designed to do it this way. Just thought I would question to see if I read into it wrong. |
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When you move the turrets up it actually moves the reticle down. Look through your scope and dial your turrets. Quoted:
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Not sure if I am reading into this but you folks real good with scopes please take a look at this turret. Its currently set at 100 yards for when I went to the range and I set it there. Now, look at the travel to 200 yards. Then look at the direction the arrows are pointing in correlation to moving from 100 to 200 yards. If I go to 200 yards, according to the arrows, I am going up. But to go further I should be dialing down. Is this backwards or am I reading this wrong? I know my ballistic app tells me to go minus X amount of clicks to go further. When I go back to the range, will be shooting 200 yards and see what happens but my ballistic app tells me to go -6 clicks, which is down 6 clicks. Already emailed nikon on the subject. Appreciate any feedback. When you move the turrets up it actually moves the reticle down. Look through your scope and dial your turrets. Have to find something to lock it down while turning but thats a good idea to see first had. thanks. |
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Have to find something to lock it down while turning but thats a good idea to see first had. thanks. Quoted:
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Not sure if I am reading into this but you folks real good with scopes please take a look at this turret. Its currently set at 100 yards for when I went to the range and I set it there. Now, look at the travel to 200 yards. Then look at the direction the arrows are pointing in correlation to moving from 100 to 200 yards. If I go to 200 yards, according to the arrows, I am going up. But to go further I should be dialing down. Is this backwards or am I reading this wrong? I know my ballistic app tells me to go minus X amount of clicks to go further. When I go back to the range, will be shooting 200 yards and see what happens but my ballistic app tells me to go -6 clicks, which is down 6 clicks. Already emailed nikon on the subject. Appreciate any feedback. When you move the turrets up it actually moves the reticle down. Look through your scope and dial your turrets. Have to find something to lock it down while turning but thats a good idea to see first had. thanks. No need to lock the rifle in place. You'll notice it very quickly but seeing for yourself is a great idea. I thought the same thing when I got in this game but Rob01 straightened me out. |
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No need to lock the rifle in place. You'll notice it very quickly but seeing for yourself is a great idea. I thought the same thing when I got in this game but Rob01 straightened me out. Quoted:
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Not sure if I am reading into this but you folks real good with scopes please take a look at this turret. Its currently set at 100 yards for when I went to the range and I set it there. Now, look at the travel to 200 yards. Then look at the direction the arrows are pointing in correlation to moving from 100 to 200 yards. If I go to 200 yards, according to the arrows, I am going up. But to go further I should be dialing down. Is this backwards or am I reading this wrong? I know my ballistic app tells me to go minus X amount of clicks to go further. When I go back to the range, will be shooting 200 yards and see what happens but my ballistic app tells me to go -6 clicks, which is down 6 clicks. Already emailed nikon on the subject. Appreciate any feedback. When you move the turrets up it actually moves the reticle down. Look through your scope and dial your turrets. Have to find something to lock it down while turning but thats a good idea to see first had. thanks. No need to lock the rifle in place. You'll notice it very quickly but seeing for yourself is a great idea. I thought the same thing when I got in this game but Rob01 straightened me out. I have a sled bed in the garage I can use but will try it on the bipod first to see if I can hold it steady enough. Haven't used this scope in a couple years since selling my AR10 but needed a scope when I robbed the 20x SWFA to put on the 6.5cm i just built up. Saving for the Burris XTR II to put on the creedmoor, then the SWFA comes back to replace the nikon if I decide I don't like it. It was good on the AR for which it is built for but the bolt deserves a better scope. |