Posted: 12/8/2016 11:29:56 AM EDT
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So I'm considering branching out into 6.5 Grendel since it's becoming More established, and I want a lightweight deer rifle for next season. So I've got some questions that I haven't been able to find good questions to.
- I've heard of different spec chambers? There's an AA chamber and a SAAMI and a Grendel II? What's up? - live heard people talk about having the right depth on the bolt face (.136?) are bolts not interchangeable like 5.56? -What's the optimal twist? I've heard 1-9, 1-8, 1-7.5... -what's an optimal barrel length for this cartridge? I know 22-26" is about right for Creedmore, I was thinking 18-20 would work well for Grendel. -how's it perform on deer? I'm thinking Hornady 123 SSTs would be a damn decent round for whitetail inside 300yards. - anyone got any info on how well the wolf steel 6.5 Grendel ammo is performing? Decent training bulk buy ammo? ETA thinking about building something like this, just with 2" more barrel.Attached File |
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There's alot of confusion involved with all this because Les Bauer wildcatted the cartridge when Grendel was still an AA trademark, that's the .264 LBC. All the issues other than the twist rate are derived from that source, and second rate barrel makers not being beholden to SAAMI.
What you want for a lightweight Grendel hunting build is 16-20". 1/8 or 1/7.5 twist (over 1/9 you can't reliably run 130+pills, which isn't that big of an issue since typically the best performing 6.5 bullets for grendel are under that, but why limit yourself) .136 depth bolt face (the shallower bolt face .125 is prone to lug breakage and never should have been used) Wolf steel runs just fine for the plinking ammo it is. As far as deer goes, inside of their expansion envelope 123 SST's would hit a Whitetail like Thor's Hammer. As for the chamber thing, you want SAAMI. I'm not going to call out specific manufacturers, but do your research before you buy. ETA When in doubt you're looking for a COMPOUND throat that's the SAAMI spec and that's the key word that should be used by the maker. |
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Quoted:
There's alot of confusion involved with all this because Les Bauer wildcatted the cartridge when Grendel was still an AA trademark, that's the .264 LBC. All the issues other than the twist rate are derived from that source, and second rate barrel makers not being beholden to SAAMI. What you want for a lightweight Grendel hunting build is 16-20". 1/8 or 1/7.5 twist (over 1/9 you can't reliably run 130+pills, which isn't that big of an issue since typically the best performing 6.5 bullets for grendel are under that, but why limit yourself) .136 depth bolt face (the shallower bolt face .125 is prone to lug breakage and never should have been used) Wolf steel runs just fine for the plinking ammo it is. As far as deer goes, inside of their expansion envelope 123 SST's would hit a Whitetail like Thor's Hammer. As for the chamber thing, you want SAAMI. I'm not going to call out specific manufacturers, but do your research before you buy. ETA When in doubt you're looking for a COMPOUND throat that's the SAAMI spec and that's the key word that should be used by the maker. so when i buy a bolt, it should say .136 or .125, or is it reasonable to expect a new manufactured bolt to be .136? |
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so when i buy a bolt, it should say .136 or .125, or is it reasonable to expect a new manufactured bolt to be .136? It should say which it is, however you know what they say about assuming... Unfortunately at least one company I know of has doubled down on stupid and stopped offering the .136 in favor of the .125 for "reasons".... 
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The bolts are not interchangeable. Simply buy the bolt from your barrel maker and you'll be fine. I used Alexander Arms for both my 24" 1/9" twist barrel and my 18" 1/8" barrel. The 1/8 is a hammer, the 1/9 shoots around 1.25" groups at 100. Alexander Arms used E.R. Shaw barrels when I purchased my barrels. E.R. Shaw is a baseline quality barrel and buying one from Shilen is a better bet.
I shoot the lightest bullets most of the time and the 1/8 twist shoots 5/8" groups at 100 yards. In theory the 1/9 should shoot 107 grain bullets very well, but the 1/8 has been better in my limited testing. Nosler 100 grain hunting bullets can be run at relatively high velocities. |
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Quoted:
So I'm considering branching out into 6.5 Grendel since it's becoming More established, and I want a lightweight deer rifle for next season. So I've got some questions that I haven't been able to find good questions to. - I've heard of different spec chambers? There's an AA chamber and a SAAMI and a Grendel II? What's up? - live heard people talk about having the right depth on the bolt face (.136?) are bolts not interchangeable like 5.56? -What's the optimal twist? I've heard 1-9, 1-8, 1-7.5... -what's an optimal barrel length for this cartridge? I know 22-26" is about right for Creedmore, I was thinking 18-20 would work well for Grendel. -how's it perform on deer? I'm thinking Hornady 123 SSTs would be a damn decent round for whitetail inside 300yards. - anyone got any info on how well the wolf steel 6.5 Grendel ammo is performing? Decent training bulk buy ammo? ETA thinking about building something like this, just with 2" more barrel.https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/92630/image-102381.JPG AA is the SAAMI chamber. Hornady took it to SAAMI several years ago and got it through the process. Between all the different chamber variants, I have never been able to out-shoot the SAAMI chamber, and the SAAMI chamber shoots whatever I put in it consistently into MOA or better, no matter what bullet I choose. Actual Grendel bolts are longer and have a deeper face depth, in order to accommodate the thicker case rim. The added length addresses the firing pin protrusion issue if you make a deep face, but don't add tail. AA uses a certain alloy and follows strict protocols on how the bolts are made and tested, to include destructive testing in batches after MPI. Optimal twist for barrels 18" and shorter is 1/7.5", but you can get away with 1/8 for 16-18". For 20" and longer, 1/8, 1/8.5, 1/8.75, and 1/9 are common. I like as tight of a twist as I can get for long-range resistance to gyroscopic decay. Optimal barrel length depends on what you're doing. For East of the Mississippi, SBRs up to 16" will cover your hunting needs more than plenty. Just saw a guy's hunting pics with his 11.5" Grendel shooting 129gr ABLR. It blew ribs out of the deer on both sides, huge exit wound, devastating internal damage. For target work, 20" or longer is usually recommended, but I've had a lot of surprising success with even 16". BC is so high on 6.5mm that they just like to fly, especially when spun tight. I shoot my Lilja 318 barrel the most. Gun is very light, but still reaches to 1000yds on rapid fire with 6rd groups recorded at 8" vertical, 4" horizontal. Very fun to shoot. 600yds and in is boring even with the 18". Some people are complaining about meat loss and wounds that are much larger than their .308s when shooting the 123gr SST. There are threads literally looking for less terminal performance, what bullet to pick... Wolf steel case goes bang, hits the target within 1.5-4 MOA for most. Cheap training ammo if you want to shoot on the dime. I'm one of 3 who put the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks together. Definitely a team effort, not one man. |
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AA is the SAAMI chamber. Hornady took it to SAAMI several years ago and got it through the process. Between all the different chamber variants, I have never been able to out-shoot the SAAMI chamber, and the SAAMI chamber shoots whatever I put in it consistently into MOA or better, no matter what bullet I choose. Actual Grendel bolts are longer and have a deeper face depth, in order to accommodate the thicker case rim. The added length addresses the firing pin protrusion issue if you make a deep face, but don't add tail. AA uses a certain alloy and follows strict protocols on how the bolts are made and tested, to include destructive testing in batches after MPI. Optimal twist for barrels 18" and shorter is 1/7.5", but you can get away with 1/8 for 16-18". For 20" and longer, 1/8, 1/8.5, 1/8.75, and 1/9 are common. I like as tight of a twist as I can get for long-range resistance to gyroscopic decay. Optimal barrel length depends on what you're doing. For East of the Mississippi, SBRs up to 16" will cover your hunting needs more than plenty. Just saw a guy's hunting pics with his 11.5" Grendel shooting 129gr ABLR. It blew ribs out of the deer on both sides, huge exit wound, devastating internal damage. For target work, 20" or longer is usually recommended, but I've had a lot of surprising success with even 16". BC is so high on 6.5mm that they just like to fly, especially when spun tight. I shoot my Lilja 318 barrel the most. Gun is very light, but still reaches to 1000yds on rapid fire with 6rd groups recorded at 8" vertical, 4" horizontal. Very fun to shoot. 600yds and in is boring even with the 18". Some people are complaining about meat loss and wounds that are much larger than their .308s when shooting the 123gr SST. There are threads literally looking for less terminal performance, what bullet to pick... Wolf steel case goes bang, hits the target within 1.5-4 MOA for most. Cheap training ammo if you want to shoot on the dime. I'm one of 3 who put the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks together. Definitely a team effort, not one man. Can't thank you enough amigo! |
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Do two!
16" AA lightweight on bottom and 18" heavy Shilen select match on top. The 16" now has a lower with a Law III folder on it. 300 yard load development with 123 AMAX and 8208 Sandrock and I rocked it, I was shooting the `8" and he was old school with an M1A. I called that dang 600 yard 9. http://www.ncrr.net/images/stories/ncrr/pdf/rifle/HiPwr/2016/2016_06_11/Overall.pdf 
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Quoted:
There's alot of confusion involved with all this because Les Bauer wildcatted the cartridge when Grendel was still an AA trademark, that's the .264 LBC. All the issues other than the twist rate are derived from that source, and second rate barrel makers not being beholden to SAAMI. What you want for a lightweight Grendel hunting build is 16-20". 1/8 or 1/7.5 twist (over 1/9 you can't reliably run 130+pills, which isn't that big of an issue since typically the best performing 6.5 bullets for grendel are under that, but why limit yourself) .136 depth bolt face (the shallower bolt face .125 is prone to lug breakage and never should have been used) Wolf steel runs just fine for the plinking ammo it is. As far as deer goes, inside of their expansion envelope 123 SST's would hit a Whitetail like Thor's Hammer. As for the chamber thing, you want SAAMI. I'm not going to call out specific manufacturers, but do your research before you buy. ETA When in doubt you're looking for a COMPOUND throat that's the SAAMI spec and that's the key word that should be used by the maker. I don't know about thors hammer but the Grendel will kill deer just fine. We have killed two with my PF Grendel. As for terminal ballistics the Grendel is about 80% the power of a .308 from what the experts say. The deer we have taken with my Grendel didn't run very far but the meat damage wasn't as great as it is from my 30-06 or 50 cal muzzle loader. That being said, I would rather shoot my Grendel over almost any other rifle in my safe. I have another one in process and it is going to be very similar to what you have above. I also want to get one of those Howa mini action rifles to round out the collection. The Grendel is taking over my list of calibers. You won't be disappointed with your rifle caliber choice. Indy |
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I killed my doe a few days ago at 400 yards with my 16 inch grendel using amax bullets. One shot and it was dead in its tracks, looked like a grenade went off in its lungs. Any pics? Hand load or factory? The AMAX was killing everything it was pointed at before the 123gr SST came out, and it appears to have a lower expansion threshold as well. I suspect the 123gr ELD-M will do the same thing. Appears to be an AMAX with the heat shield tip, with a better BC. |
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Any pics? Hand load or factory? The AMAX was killing everything it was pointed at before the 123gr SST came out, and it appears to have a lower expansion threshold as well. I suspect the 123gr ELD-M will do the same thing. Appears to be an AMAX with the heat shield tip, with a better BC. I would have preferred the SSTs but they didnt get here in time so it was factory AMAX. 
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Any pics? Hand load or factory? The AMAX was killing everything it was pointed at before the 123gr SST came out, and it appears to have a lower expansion threshold as well. I suspect the 123gr ELD-M will do the same thing. Appears to be an AMAX with the heat shield tip, with a better BC. Nevermind. Are they coming out with a Grendel ELD-X? |
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Mags work fine. No just the ASC mags and you cant use normal 223mags. Quoted:
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How about 6.5G magazines, any issues with them? Are there any manufacturers other than ASC? Do regular AR magazines work with 6.5G? Mags work fine. No just the ASC mags and you cant use normal 223mags. Alexander Arms sells Elanders. |
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I'm a idiot and wasn't paying attention. I got all my mags from Alexander arms and they're elanders and have worked fine. Quoted:
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Alexander Arms sells Elanders. I'm a idiot and wasn't paying attention. I got all my mags from Alexander arms and they're elanders and have worked fine. Mine work great, I just have to slam them into the rifle. |