Posted: 11/2/2016 1:59:23 AM EDT
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Somewhere in this precision rifle section, semi-auto rifles there was a posting about the Army long distance marksmanship team shooting .308 I recall at 1000 yards with iron sights and a sling. No rest, no bipod. And iron sights. The best guy got all 20 shots within 2 MOA and 10 within 1 MOA. So who needs a scope for anything with that standard as a goal?!!
Maybe only us old guys with bifocals should get to use or need scopes?? |
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Quoted:
Somewhere in this precision rifle section, semi-auto rifles there was a posting about the Army long distance marksmanship team shooting .308 I recall at 1000 yards with iron sights and a sling. No rest, no bipod. And iron sights. The best guy got all 20 shots within 2 MOA and 10 within 1 MOA. So who needs a scope for anything with that standard as a goal?!! Maybe only us old guys with bifocals should get to use or need scopes?? That's insane. Sounds like 4x is plenty haha. Again I'm not worried about tight groups at distance. Just want as much glass as is necessary to be able to hit 20" gongs from 6-800. I'm actually going to test it out both setups out to 700 on Monday. We'll see how it goes |
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Quoted:
Somewhere in this precision rifle section, semi-auto rifles there was a posting about the Army long distance marksmanship team shooting .308 I recall at 1000 yards with iron sights and a sling. No rest, no bipod. And iron sights. The best guy got all 20 shots within 2 MOA and 10 within 1 MOA. So who needs a scope for anything with that standard as a goal?!! Maybe only us old guys with bifocals should get to use or need scopes?? They were using tighter twist than 1/12 with good long range bullets, probably Bergers. Forum member sinister can elaborate more, as he was AMU Commander, after serving in many different SF units, to include CT units. He's a big competitor as well, goes to Camp Perry, is President's 100, you name it. What I've seen with the SCAR-H/17S, is that the loose twist does not bode well even up here at high altitude when it comes to reaching out to 800yds. With 155gr AMAX going fast, it made it out to 800yds at 6600ft elevation in warm weather, but comes apart after that with a very wide, unpredictable dispersion pattern. At sea level, who knows what it would do. People with more experience at sea level with the SCAR can chime in. It really needs a 1/10 or tighter twist. If it were me, I would go gain twist starting 1/18 and then tighten it to 1/8. |
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I have a 1-4 Elcan on my Scar 16 and if I remember correctly.....the Elcan has a 1 MOA dot in the center.
On my Scar 17 I run same NF set up with a small red dot off the rail for anything under 150y. With this set up I can cover all my ranges and I don't feel like I compromise anything. With the Elcan At 800y you will have almost a 8.5" dot covering the target....just something to think about. |
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I have a 1-4 Elcan on my Scar 16 and if I remember correctly.....the Elcan has a 1 MOA dot in the center. On my Scar 17 I run same NF set up with a small red dot off the rail for anything under 150y. With this set up I can cover all my ranges and I don't feel like I compromise anything. With the Elcan At 800y you will have almost a 8.5" dot covering the target....just something to think about. If I pointed the dot at an 800 yard target, it would come up quite a bit short. The hash marks are smaller than 1 moa I believe |
Took the 17 out to test the Elcan at range. Hit steel out to 675 yards no problem. 700 was a bit of a challenge. I was surprised at how easy it was to still see the targets that far. I struggled to hit targets at that distance with both optics when the barrel was hot, so I feel that is probably the limit of my abilities. I put some mags through with the 2.5-10 mounted, and was not able to make hits on multiple targets at distance as fast or consistently than I was with the Elcan. At this point, I don't think a 2.5-10 would allow me to do anything more than I could do with the Elcan on my Scar 17
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I'll just throw it out there that I was shooting 100yd with a fixed 6x and I felt under-magnified even at that distance. I was indeed shooting for groups, smallest possible, but if you have trouble with groups at 100yd, then I think you can kiss 600-800yd goodbye.
That's the thing, you need to be shooting tight groups, or you probably won't be able to guarantee hits at distance. But if range time with easier to see targets is your only goal, then guaranteeing hits and the other arguments I could make won't really matter. |
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Quoted:
I'll just throw it out there that I was shooting 100yd with a fixed 6x and I felt under-magnified even at that distance. I was indeed shooting for groups, smallest possible, but if you have trouble with groups at 100yd, then I think you can kiss 600-800yd goodbye. That's the thing, you need to be shooting tight groups, or you probably won't be able to guarantee hits at distance. But if range time with easier to see targets is your only goal, then guaranteeing hits and the other arguments I could make won't really matter. With a scar 17? |