Anyone running this barrel?  Comments?

I'm looking for an M4 type profile 16-17" match grade barrel for a RECCE build.  Lilja .223-8 M4 stainless is the OEM or one of them.  1:8 Wylde chamber.  Hand lapped.  Carbine gas port.

I want the highest accuracy potential in that length, profile and port location.  Any feedback appreciated on this barrel or any other that would be better.  Nothing heavier than 2.18 lbs.  Thanks.

http://riflebarrels.com/shop/drop-in-barrels/223-8-ar740-20-copy/

No personal experience with this.  I know WES at MSTN used to use a lot of Lilja barrels and they were very accurate.  Too bad he closed his account here as his for sale threads were great resources...

I thought lilja used 416R curious if that's a typo or if they put out "bulk" barrels like a lot of mfr's do a lil cheaper than their true benchrest quality barrels? Sry to hyjack the thread but anyone know? And OP usually lilja is top notch, a lot of benchrest ers shoot them.

Lilja makes nice barrels. I would just buy it from them.

Thanks, guys.  I see that Kreiger can build pretty much the same thing at the same price point, too, by the time you have it chambered and finished..   Hard decision.  Still leaning toward the Lilja. I want to move my rifle from being just another good shooting carbine to a precision carbine.

Right now, despite my best efforts to use the same sub MOA reloading techniques I use in other calibers in bolt guns, including match grade bullets, hand weighed charges, match primers, benchrest type case prep, even sorting cases by weight, uniforming primer pockets, checking for run out, trimming to same length, adjusting bullet seating depth, laddering, the works, the current barrel produces groups that hover right above I MOA for five and ten round groups.  Of course I can get better three shot groups, and occasional sub MOA 5 shot groups,, but not on average. Such random results are not a true indication of accuracy.


Best grouping bullets are 52 grain SMK, 52 grain Berger Flat Base Match, and surprisingly, Barnes 62 grain TSX hunting bullets. That the Barnes 62 almost groups as well as the Berger and SMK match bullets suggest that increased accuracy lies elsewhere than the ammo..

I have a good SSA-E trigger and am using a good 6-24x50 scope on 24x for load development.  Upper receiver (Spikes Tactical M4) has been lapped.  My technique is the same as with my bolt guns that can get down well below 1 MOA using the same case prep.  I shoot from a stable  bench with good front adjustable rifle rest and rear rabbit ear bag.   I've concluded that the likely explanation is the barrel.  It is a relatively inexpensive $150 CMMG 1:9 nitride barrel.  It is, of course, free floated.  Plenty accurate for what it is, but I'm hoping for better while staying with the RECCE build concept and avoiding a heavy profile barrel.

I don't mind going to this price point if the true precision is there.  It would be my first Lilja barrel.  I am leaning that way in part because of the authenticity, but mostly because of reputation of the company and hand lapped finishing of the barrel. I do have Kreiger and Douglas barrels on bolt guns.

You're doing all that work, but not using a barrel that is worthy of that work.

It makes no sense to me unless the barrel showed that type of accuracy potential out of the gate.

The Lilja barrels shoot amazingly well in my experience with them.  Very smooth, uniform bores that don't foul much at all.

They group exceptionally well in the AR15, although all the ones I'm talking about are in 6.5 Grendel, which I have had scores of come through my hands and at the range for test-firing.

As to the profile the SEALs requested for the Recce, I wouldn't base any of my personal firearms decisions on anything the SEALs do. That gas system length with even more dwell than a 16" makes absolutely no sense at all.

I have a Lilja 740 in 20"... Performs well all around, cant imagine that the recon would be any less quality. I wouldn't hesitate.

Thanks.  The Kreiger barrel is midlength.  I don't mind being a bit overgassed.  I do all that work for my better bolt guns, and thought I'd find the limit on this carbine.  It appears that I've hit the wall at 1.1 MOA true average.  May be leaning to the Kreiger, but again gas port location has its pluses and minuses.

Thank you.  Hate to vascilate.  The Lilja is everything except its port.  But, my existing 16.1" barrel is carbine port location and I've never felt I needed a middie.

The Lilja is prob the most accurate to the recce build specs, as up-in-the-air as they are. I would also look at the recce barrels from High Caliber Sales or Centurion arms as well as calling up Wes at MSTN for one of his recce barrels. The Centurion/HCS ones are SPR contract barrels, only cut to 16" if I understand correctly. Wes uses Noveske's with an intermediate gas system. Neither are the carbine gas supposedly true to recce spec, but I wouldn't let that hold me back. Both are probably as accurate or more than the Lilja (which is still awesome).

Do you have any firsthand experience with the barrels you mentioned?  I've been trying to find a high-end barrel and I keep looking at the ones you mentioned - however it is hard to find good data on how well they shoot...

Back in 2010 I purchased a 16" SS barrel manufactured by Lilja and sold through Nordic Components.I have been totally satisfied with the results I am getting from this barrel. My next barrel will either be a Lilja or Krieger.  I have not handloaded any ammo for it but my  groups with BH match were  under an inch. 4 rounds were normally at 3/8-1/2" with a flier at the 3/4-1" mark. Probably the 'jerk behind the trigger'.  These were groups shot with only the handguard resting on the sandbag, gun has a Leupold 2.5x8 scope. I think I can do better if I get a higher magnification scope and use a more stable bench. Pic....




(I give up...not computer literate enough to post a pic)


I have a Noveske 14.5" LW MOE that isn't bad either, not in the league of the Lilja but with the same BH 77gr. it'll shoot 1.5" with an ACOG mounted atop. I figure this isn't bad considering it is a LW barrel and has Magpul MOE handguards, which are not the best for any precision shooting. It's my carry around the farm blaster.

I got my contract MK12 barrel from Centurion (.25-.5 moa at 100, MK262 @ 2825 fps) and a 12.5 SS from Noveske's (sub .75 MOA w/ 4x still need to see what it can do when I can quarter the target, MK262 @ 2580). They're as accurate as you're gonna get, and they get great velocity.

Direct from Lija site  "The gas system is carbine-length. This barrel profile is an exact copy of the Recon barrel we’ve made for the US Navy SEALS. Weight is 2.18 pounds. Engraved: Lilja M4 .223 8T”.

If this system performs on SEALs A1 lowers & can be trusted to perform at that level... Im guessing it can & will perform on a civilian AR & its responsibilities

That's my point, exactly.  The midlength gas port on the Kreiger may offer a theoretical benefit, but, I've been a little over gassed for years with my existing 16" carbine barrel, and consider that to be a bit of an advantage.  It shoots everything with no complaints.  Reliability with available possibly low pressure ammo in the future may be more important than softer shooting.

I'm going with the Lilja.   While this is a precision build with accuracy for match ammo in mind, versatility to use cheap ammo, if ever necessary, trumps a little less recoil.  Thanks.

Thanks!  I worry about a $400+ barrel not shooting well!

Well thought out(IMO)... If not to much trouble, please post AAR when your up & running. TIA
The extra pressure also improves reliability when suppressed. Pew-pew

Lilja RECCE dwg

Go for it and don't look back...

Do let us know how it does after you get it built and tested

Thanks.  Will do.

Lilja has a similar profile barrel with mid-length gas:

http://riflebarrels.com/shop/drop-in-barrels/223-8-m4-fluted-copy/

The Lilja Navy Recon barrel arrived Friday.  I installed it yesterday, Saturday, after first truing the receiver face.  It started raining, so I have not shot it yet.  Lilja has a specific break-in procedure.  I will do that, whether necessary.  One shot and clean.  Repeat 10-12 times before shooting for groups.

The barrel is 1/2" longer than a civilian 16" M4, has a heftier profile under the hand guard, and weighs about 8-10 ounces more.

Hey MS556,

How about any range reports or your experiences so far II was looking at that barrel for a long time, and may still go with it one day.

Exactly.  There was a reason the "midlength" system was developed.....because the carbine system on a NFA legal 16" barrel was too short and had way too much dwell time.



Which brings me to a question on the .308 barrels....I'm shopping around to replace a 308 barrel and I want 18".....but all I'm  seeing for the most part is an 18" with a midlength gas port.  Why is this??????  The 18" should have a rifle length IMO.

Overgassed means it will 'buck' harder and can translate into a loss in accuracy.

If you want this to be a 'precision gun' then you need to consider the midlength gas port

There are some 18" RLGS .308s out there.

Fulton Armory

They are good-to-go as well, one of the few I trust in the AR10 market.

Awesome. Thanks for the heads up.  Looks almost identical to the one I'm replacing so I can go the DPMS route.

If you ever second guess yourself for going with the carbine over the mid length, consider this: A carbine gas system will have a smaller port than a midlength. A hole in the bore of your barrel is not helping accuracy so trying to reduce the size of the hole may not be a bad thing. I'm not sure how the minute difference in gas port size affects real world accuracy, but if you're going for maximum performance, every little bit helps.

Lilja does one also.

http://riflebarrels.com/shop/drop-in-barrels/308-ar10740-drop-in/

I have some pretty hard recoiling long action bolt guns that are sub MOA with hand loads.  That might affect a shooter not acquainted with such if shooting multiple shot strings, but has no effect on inherent accuracy.  The difference in recoil impulse in semi auto 5.56 is not a factor for me.  I don't shoot 3G either. I'm already in sub MOA load development with this admittedly over gassed but very reliable cycling and accurate barrel.  Target loads are not full 5.56 pressure but some hunting loads are.  Still working up heavier Bergers.  Will report more later.

I love mine. My rifle is set up to be as close to a SEAL RECCE as can be. I have only shot at 50 yards with it so far, but it makes a ragged hole.

Well done, sir.  One thing I noticed about the profile that has nothing to do with accuracy:  Lilja does not machine the step or shoulder just back from the muzzle for the authentic Ops Inc. 12th suppressor collar.  If you want that, you'd need to send it to someone like ADCO for that.  Then it would fit with the AEM AE5 suppressor to be completely authentic.  That costs $60 plus shipping.  Not sure I'll ever add a suppressor.

Barrel broken in and load development well underway.

Here are two 100 yard groups.  Loaded up 10 rounds for two five shot groups shot back to back. First group has one shot low from cold clean bore.  Other four grouped nicely.  Then tried to zero the group for next five, but still a bit off center on the zero.  Second group of five settled down nicely, however, with good accuracy.

I think this may be the load for 100 yards.  Under .5 MOA already.

Great Shooting thanks for the update.  Photos of completed weapon always help...

This is the configuration used for those groups.  The big QD mounted 6-24x50 Burris is only used for load development or precision shooting.  It is normally swapped out for a 3-9x40 VX-R Patrol.