Posted: 2/21/2016 8:44:57 PM EDT
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Hello gents, I want to get a good scope for my new m1a loaded. My only problem with that is I don't know which one to get? My price range is around $350-500.00 for a scope (that's what the wife says I can spend) My plan is to turn my M1A into a DMR style rifle, looking to shoot steel up to 600 yards, maybe more. what would you recommend? |
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Why just Vortex? What power range and features do you need?
There is a very good basic tactical scope for $299 that is highly regarded here. It is the Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-9x40mm. It is a true MRAD scope with .1 mil per click, 5 mils per rotation turrets and mildot reticle. Turrets are accurate and track true. It is a Weaver exclusive for MidwayUSA and is Japanese made with very good Japanese glass at its price point. It compares favorably with scopes at least 50% more expensive. It will easily get you to 600 yards. I have one on a 1,000 yard capable Sako bolt gun in 6mm Remington. |
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Quoted: Why just Vortex? What power range and features do you need? There is a very good basic tactical scope for $299 that is highly regarded here. It is the Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-9x40mm. It is a true MRAD scope with .1 mil per click, 5 mils per rotation turrets and mildot reticle. Turrets are accurate and track true. It is a Weaver exclusive for MidwayUSA and is Japanese made with very good Japanese glass at its price point. It compares favorably with scopes at least 50% more expensive. It will easily get you to 600 yards. I have one on a 1,000 yard capable Sako bolt gun in 6mm Remington. How does the weaver compare to vortex? What are pros/cons of the glass? |
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I heard great things from vortex glass, also I don't know alot about power ranges and features of scopes. I wanted to get a scope that had a life time warranty due to the M1A being hard on glass. How does the weaver compare to vortex? What are pros/cons of the glass? Quoted:
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Why just Vortex? What power range and features do you need? There is a very good basic tactical scope for $299 that is highly regarded here. It is the Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-9x40mm. It is a true MRAD scope with .1 mil per click, 5 mils per rotation turrets and mildot reticle. Turrets are accurate and track true. It is a Weaver exclusive for MidwayUSA and is Japanese made with very good Japanese glass at its price point. It compares favorably with scopes at least 50% more expensive. It will easily get you to 600 yards. I have one on a 1,000 yard capable Sako bolt gun in 6mm Remington. How does the weaver compare to vortex? What are pros/cons of the glass? Vortex, Weaver and other companies are brand names. Each brand has many models and different product lines with progressive steps up in quality, performance and price. Not all scopes by any brand are of equal quality or performance. For instance, Vortex Crossfire line is Chinese. Glass is mediocre. Vortex Viper PST and above is very good. Weaver Kaspa is Chinese and is like Crossfire, mediocre. Weaver Grand Slam and above are Japanese and quite good. Redfield Revenge is Chinese. Redfield Revolution is US with likely Japanese sourced glass. You can't generalize by brand alone. Even Zeiss has some low end Chinese stuff now that is not good. I've stated the case for the Weaver GST. There are a lot of them being used by members of this forum. I hear of no one having to return one As to recoil, I can't tell you on the M1A and the scope. It is well made. The 6mm Remington is a slightly larger case than .243, .260 and .308 with a bit more powder capacity. The scope does fine. I have a lot of different scope brands. None are Chinese. That's where you are likely to run into problems. I guess I have more Leupold, Burris, Nikon and U.S. Redfield scopes and a few more high end European. But, I do have four or five Weaver scopes. A Weaver 4-12x is on a heavy recoiling Weatherby Mark V .300 Weatherby Magnum. No problem whatsoever. Modern scopes that are manufactured in U.S., Japanese, German, Austrian and most European factories are well made and reliable. Weaver, like most major scope manufacturers l, has a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. Some (Leupold, perhaps Vortex, and others), extend the warranty to anyone regardless of whether the original first purchaser. That only matters if you are buying a used scope. The best warranty is the one you never need to use. I have some scopes I've owned for over forty years and some purchased in the last year. None of more than two dozen from I think 8 different companies have ever had a warranty claim. Maybe I've been lucky. But, I just think modern scopes are very reliable. |
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Quoted: Vortex, Weaver and other companies are brand names. Each brand has many models and different product lines with progressive steps up in quality, performance and price. Not all scopes by any brand are of equal quality or performance. For instance, Vortex Crossfire line is Chinese. Glass is mediocre. Vortex Viper PST and above is very good. Weaver Kaspa is Chinese and is like Crossfire, mediocre. Weaver Grand Slam and above are Japanese and quite good. Redfield Revenge is Chinese. Redfield Revolution is US with likely Japanese sourced glass. You can't generalize by brand alone. Even Zeiss has some low end Chinese stuff now that is not good. I've stated the case for the Weaver GST. There are a lot of them being used by members of this forum. I hear of no one having to return one As to recoil, I can't tell you on the M1A and the scope. It is well made. The 6mm Remington is a slightly larger case than .243, .260 and .308 with a bit more powder capacity. The scope does fine. I have a lot of different scope brands. None are Chinese. That's where you are likely to run into problems. I guess I have more Leupold, Burris, Nikon and U.S. Redfield scopes and a few more high end European. But, I do have four or five Weaver scopes. A Weaver 4-12x is on a heavy recoiling Weatherby Mark V .300 Weatherby Magnum. No problem whatsoever. Modern scopes that are manufactured in U.S., Japanese, German, Austrian and most European factories are well made and reliable. Weaver, like most major scope manufacturers l, has a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. Some (Leupold, perhaps Vortex, and others), extend the warranty to anyone regardless of whether the original first purchaser. That only matters if you are buying a used scope. The best warranty is the one you never need to use. I have some scopes I've owned for over forty years and some purchased in the last year. None of more than two dozen from I think 8 different companies have ever had a warranty claim. Maybe I've been lucky. But, I just think modern scopes are very reliable. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why just Vortex? What power range and features do you need? There is a very good basic tactical scope for $299 that is highly regarded here. It is the Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-9x40mm. It is a true MRAD scope with .1 mil per click, 5 mils per rotation turrets and mildot reticle. Turrets are accurate and track true. It is a Weaver exclusive for MidwayUSA and is Japanese made with very good Japanese glass at its price point. It compares favorably with scopes at least 50% more expensive. It will easily get you to 600 yards. I have one on a 1,000 yard capable Sako bolt gun in 6mm Remington. How does the weaver compare to vortex? What are pros/cons of the glass? Vortex, Weaver and other companies are brand names. Each brand has many models and different product lines with progressive steps up in quality, performance and price. Not all scopes by any brand are of equal quality or performance. For instance, Vortex Crossfire line is Chinese. Glass is mediocre. Vortex Viper PST and above is very good. Weaver Kaspa is Chinese and is like Crossfire, mediocre. Weaver Grand Slam and above are Japanese and quite good. Redfield Revenge is Chinese. Redfield Revolution is US with likely Japanese sourced glass. You can't generalize by brand alone. Even Zeiss has some low end Chinese stuff now that is not good. I've stated the case for the Weaver GST. There are a lot of them being used by members of this forum. I hear of no one having to return one As to recoil, I can't tell you on the M1A and the scope. It is well made. The 6mm Remington is a slightly larger case than .243, .260 and .308 with a bit more powder capacity. The scope does fine. I have a lot of different scope brands. None are Chinese. That's where you are likely to run into problems. I guess I have more Leupold, Burris, Nikon and U.S. Redfield scopes and a few more high end European. But, I do have four or five Weaver scopes. A Weaver 4-12x is on a heavy recoiling Weatherby Mark V .300 Weatherby Magnum. No problem whatsoever. Modern scopes that are manufactured in U.S., Japanese, German, Austrian and most European factories are well made and reliable. Weaver, like most major scope manufacturers l, has a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. Some (Leupold, perhaps Vortex, and others), extend the warranty to anyone regardless of whether the original first purchaser. That only matters if you are buying a used scope. The best warranty is the one you never need to use. I have some scopes I've owned for over forty years and some purchased in the last year. None of more than two dozen from I think 8 different companies have ever had a warranty claim. Maybe I've been lucky. But, I just think modern scopes are very reliable.  |
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The main consideration with gas-operated or self-loading firearms is how much harder they are on optics than even magnum bolt guns.
The return-to-battery stroke in the cycle of operation is what beats scopes to death, most of them at least. NightForce and Vortex do things to their scopes that other makers don't do to my knowledge, and it has to do with ruggedizing the optical element retaining rings for extreme abuse. Even some of the highest dollar scopes have dropped the ball in QC lately, so NF and Vortex (Viper PST and up) are the go-to brands for durability for me. |
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The main consideration with gas-operated or self-loading firearms is how much harder they are on optics than even magnum bolt guns. The return-to-battery stroke in the cycle of operation is what beats scopes to death, most of them at least. NightForce and Vortex do things to their scopes that other makers don't do to my knowledge, and it has to do with ruggedizing the optical element retaining rings for extreme abuse. Even some of the highest dollar scopes have dropped the ball in QC lately, so NF and Vortex (Viper PST and up) are the go-to brands for durability for me. I respect your opinion, but that has not been my experience with semiauto or lever rifles up to .308 and .30-06. I have no magnum semiautos. Lever guns are up to pretty stout .45-70. Leupold, Redfield, Burris, Weaver and others have done well. Long action light weight '06 and .280 Rem semi rifles are causing no problems. I think much of this is marketing hype. Return to battery is, with respect, not extreme abuse. Heck, I have an ancient Bausch and Lomb Balvar 8 on a period Remington semi auto 740 (check out the age) that has poor, by today's standards, lens coatings that will take '06 recoil, and has, for many decades without ever moving off zero. The lever .45-70 is using an illuminated Burris scope of very recent manufacture. A .30-30 Marlin 336 has done the same with a Weaver. I must respectfully assert that your phenomenon is limited to a few, and not "most of them." Magnum recoil has damaged scopes more frequently, but not in my experience from good companies. I do have friends that have had hard recoiling magnums damage scopes. The Z3 series Swarvos come to mind. There are clear problems with the erector system in those scopes. They are an exception. Besides the .300 Weatherby, I have several 7mm Rem Mag bolt guns and a very light .45-70 single shot that is shooting 405 grain bullets at over 2100 fps. That is over 4,000 ft lbs of energy -- elephant gun territory. The Burris 2-7x takes a beating and is rock solid. I get it that a hot semi can slam the bolt home in a reverse recoil of sorts, and so can a lever gun, but I'm not having the issue you describe. I have several .22LR lever guns with little recoil, but with the same mechanical return to battery sequence you describe. They have relatively low end scopes, one Leupold, the other Weaver. They have no problems. |
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I respect your opinion, but that has not been my experience with semiauto or lever rifles up to .308 and .30-06. I have no magnum semiautos. Lever guns are up to pretty stout .45-70. Leupold, Redfield, Burris, Weaver and others have done well. Long action light weight '06 and .280 Rem semi rifles are causing no problems. I think much of this is marketing hype. Return to battery is, with respect, not extreme abuse. Heck, I have an ancient Bausch and Lomb Balvar 8 on a period Remington semi auto 740 (check out the age) that has poor, by today's standards, lens coatings that will take '06 recoil, and has, for many decades without ever moving off zero. The lever .45-70 is using an illuminated Burris scope of very recent manufacture. A .30-30 Marlin 336 has done the same with a Weaver. I must respectfully assert that your phenomenon is limited to a few, and not "most of them." Magnum recoil has damaged scopes more frequently, but not in my experience from good companies. I do have friends that have had hard recoiling magnums damage scopes. The Z3 series Swarvos come to mind. There are clear problems with the erector system in those scopes. They are an exception. Besides the .300 Weatherby, I have several 7mm Rem Mag bolt guns and a very light .45-70 single shot that is shooting 405 grain bullets at over 2100 fps. That is over 4,000 ft lbs of energy -- elephant gun territory. The Burris 2-7x takes a beating and is rock solid. I get it that a hot semi can slam the bolt home in a reverse recoil of sorts, and so can a lever gun, but I'm not having the issue you describe. I have several .22LR lever guns with little recoil, but with the same mechanical return to battery sequence you describe. They have relatively low end scopes, one Leupold, the other Weaver. They have no problems. Quoted:
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The main consideration with gas-operated or self-loading firearms is how much harder they are on optics than even magnum bolt guns. The return-to-battery stroke in the cycle of operation is what beats scopes to death, most of them at least. NightForce and Vortex do things to their scopes that other makers don't do to my knowledge, and it has to do with ruggedizing the optical element retaining rings for extreme abuse. Even some of the highest dollar scopes have dropped the ball in QC lately, so NF and Vortex (Viper PST and up) are the go-to brands for durability for me. I respect your opinion, but that has not been my experience with semiauto or lever rifles up to .308 and .30-06. I have no magnum semiautos. Lever guns are up to pretty stout .45-70. Leupold, Redfield, Burris, Weaver and others have done well. Long action light weight '06 and .280 Rem semi rifles are causing no problems. I think much of this is marketing hype. Return to battery is, with respect, not extreme abuse. Heck, I have an ancient Bausch and Lomb Balvar 8 on a period Remington semi auto 740 (check out the age) that has poor, by today's standards, lens coatings that will take '06 recoil, and has, for many decades without ever moving off zero. The lever .45-70 is using an illuminated Burris scope of very recent manufacture. A .30-30 Marlin 336 has done the same with a Weaver. I must respectfully assert that your phenomenon is limited to a few, and not "most of them." Magnum recoil has damaged scopes more frequently, but not in my experience from good companies. I do have friends that have had hard recoiling magnums damage scopes. The Z3 series Swarvos come to mind. There are clear problems with the erector system in those scopes. They are an exception. Besides the .300 Weatherby, I have several 7mm Rem Mag bolt guns and a very light .45-70 single shot that is shooting 405 grain bullets at over 2100 fps. That is over 4,000 ft lbs of energy -- elephant gun territory. The Burris 2-7x takes a beating and is rock solid. I get it that a hot semi can slam the bolt home in a reverse recoil of sorts, and so can a lever gun, but I'm not having the issue you describe. I have several .22LR lever guns with little recoil, but with the same mechanical return to battery sequence you describe. They have relatively low end scopes, one Leupold, the other Weaver. They have no problems. The Remington 740, 742, and 7400 self-loaders have very lightweight bolts, so the return-to-battery stroke is weak compared to an AR10. It's another reason why they suffer so much from reliability problems as well, since they fall way short of the 1/3 rule (bolt carrier should weigh 3x the mass of the bolt for reliable feeding). They do well if maintained and lubricated, and are a fairly pleasant rifle to shoot for me. Take the AR10 BCG out and look at it. It's a beast. Throw an accelerometer on the two rifles and look at the readings during the return stroke. Same thing we saw with the SCAR. Scope manufacturers have had a tradition of making scopes with uni-directional recoil in mind, and the popularity of the AR15 has allowed them to get away with this because it shoots such a light projectile in 5.56, with a staged cascading effect with the buffer internal weights, as well as the lighter BCG. With the AR10, you have a substantially more massive BCG that is a weapon in and of itself if you want to use it as a blodgeoning tool. There is nowhere near that amount of mass in any combination of reciprocating component group in the Remington self-loaders with their tiny 4rd mags, which brings up another issue. Round count run through AR10's is going to average more than twice as much per range session than the Remington 740/742/7400. People normally take the Remington to the range opening rifle season, confirm/chase zero, throw it back in the case, and call it good. With AR10's, people typically will shoot many 5rd accuracy strings, or 10 and 20rd strings, depending on what they are doing. The average AR10 owner usually shoots more in one range session than the average Remington 7400 owner shoots in a lifetime, at least from my observations on the range and hunting areas I've seen over the years. As a result, scopes take a beating. Within units that have been using the SR25, Mk.11, and M110 in high volume, this is a known problem, and NightForce is the solution. I know for a fact that NF and Vortex ruggedize their scopes in ways that others don't. You'll see some articles about this coming out soon. It isn't marketing hype because the companies that do it probably don't want others to know what they do. |
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this is what you seek
BDC or mil-dot. Great glass. I've owned Nikon, Zeiss, Bushnell, and countless "cheap" brands. The above Viper is my current favorite. I actually sold off my Zeiss after buying the Vortex to try, my eye couldn't see any difference in the two's glass and the Vortex was $400 less expensive. |
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Quoted: this is what you seek BDC or mil-dot. Great glass. I've owned Nikon, Zeiss, Bushnell, and countless "cheap" brands. The above Viper is my current favorite. I actually sold off my Zeiss after buying the Vortex to try, my eye couldn't see any difference in the two's glass and the Vortex was $400 less expensive. |
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How does this scope compare to the Viper HST or Viper HS? Quoted:
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this is what you seek BDC or mil-dot. Great glass. I've owned Nikon, Zeiss, Bushnell, and countless "cheap" brands. The above Viper is my current favorite. I actually sold off my Zeiss after buying the Vortex to try, my eye couldn't see any difference in the two's glass and the Vortex was $400 less expensive. No clue, never tried the other models you listed, seriously the link I posted is a great optic for the $$. It actually blew me away at its price point. Like I said I sold the Zeiss, not because Vortex is better but because my eyes couldn't see a $400 difference in clarity. |
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I've owned or used them both. I started with the Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 Mil Dot when we were waiting for the PST's to come out.
I was really impressed with the scope, and used it as a floater until someone made me an offer for more than I paid for it. Still going strong last I checked. I also have both 2.5-10x MRAD PST's, the x44 and the x32 FFP/SF. Great little scopes they are. I also have the Viper HST 5-15x44 Mil Dot. Biggest advantages/differences with the PST's over the straight Vipers: * Zero stop * Matching reticle and turrets * Target vs. capped * Hash reticles vs/ Mil dot or BDC type * Illumination Other than that, the glass is great on the Vipers, tracking is true still, just really solid, lightweight, general-purpose scopes for the entry-level shooter looking for quality, reliable glass. |
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OP, are you by chance mil/le? Vortex has a nice discount program. They are one of the few that extends that discount to us lowly plain veterans (most give the discount to active duty or retired).
Regardless, for the price range you listed I would try to stick with one of the Vipers. Midway has a sale on the 6.5-20x44 standard viper for $329. That's a really good price for that scope. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/772363/vortex-optics-viper-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-65-20x-44mm-side-focus-dead-hold-bdc-reticle-matte If you can spring for the extra money, going with an HS or HS-T would be worth it for the slightly better glass and excellent turrets. The HS-T 4-16x44 would probably be a good option and it's just a hair over your limit. Good Luck! |
| I am going through the same process. I currently own Nikon, Leupold, Burris, Vortex and Bushnell Scopes. I have three Vortex Vipers and I am not pleased with their optical clarity compared to that of Nikon. On one of my Vipers I cannot get it to focus, no matter how I adjust it, the thing is always fuzzy at the target. I am sending it back in for repair/replacement. When I buy another scope I am heavily leaning toward NF. I realize that the price point for NF is outside of his specified range. I would look at Nikon before Vortex in that price range. Vortex seems to be the scope of choice right now and they do back up their product. |
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I am going through the same process. I currently own Nikon, Leupold, Burris, Vortex and Bushnell Scopes. I have three Vortex Vipers and I am not pleased with their optical clarity compared to that of Nikon. On one of my Vipers I cannot get it to get it to focus. When I buy another scope I am heavily leaning toward NF. I realize that the price point for NF is outside of his specified range. I would look at Nikon before Vortex in that price range. Vortex seems to be the scope of choice right now and they do back up their product. Exact opposite for myself. Vortex before Nikon. I like bdc reticles, Nikons are horrible in my opinion, vortex has nice thin hash marks vs nikon donuts. No different than dodge, ford, chevy, argument I suppose. |
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Exact opposite for myself. Vortex before Nikon. I like bdc reticles, Nikons are horrible in my opinion, vortex has nice thin hash marks vs nikon donuts. No different than dodge, ford, chevy, argument I suppose. Quoted:
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I am going through the same process. I currently own Nikon, Leupold, Burris, Vortex and Bushnell Scopes. I have three Vortex Vipers and I am not pleased with their optical clarity compared to that of Nikon. On one of my Vipers I cannot get it to get it to focus. When I buy another scope I am heavily leaning toward NF. I realize that the price point for NF is outside of his specified range. I would look at Nikon before Vortex in that price range. Vortex seems to be the scope of choice right now and they do back up their product. Exact opposite for myself. Vortex before Nikon. I like bdc reticles, Nikons are horrible in my opinion, vortex has nice thin hash marks vs nikon donuts. No different than dodge, ford, chevy, argument I suppose. I agree Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota thing. Most of my Nikons do not have the BDC reticle. The optical clarity on my Nikons, to my eyes at least, is far better than the Vortex Vipers that I have. |
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https://youtu.be/9fe4l_CAthI
The forward recoil impulse of the M1a is pretty stout. In your budget I'd look hard at the SWFA SS 10x. |
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I have Vortex PST scopes (three of them), and two Nikons (Buckmaster and Monarch) and others that have been taken off and basically discarded.
The 1-4x is in your budget, but the others aren't. The Monarch 2.5-10x would be a great scope for you. It should be around $400. It doesn't come with some features that others do (target turrets, etc... ), but the optical clarity and quality is outstanding. I have added aftermarket turrets to mine and I love it! |