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NH, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2017 11:03:10 AM EDT
I would like to get into precision shooting, but I don't want to jump in whole hog and spend several grand off the bat on something I might not like.
I am looking for something that is a good,solid accurate rifle out of the box that I can learn on, but I can potentially upgrade down the line with a nicer trigger,stock or chassis (side folder would be neat) or barrel, detachable magazine if I'd like. I am aware that the Remington 700 has the largest aftermarket available, but with all the bad things I've heard about recent remington it sounds like out of the box it would need some work. The savage rifles interest me due to the lower cost of entry, good accuracy out of the box and it's fairly good aftermarket. The $300 ish Savage 12 FV Varmint would be a tempting buy for me, but my nearest Cabellas is in the Peoples Republic of NY  . I plan on to get set up for reloading in the near future,not sure if I will go either 6.5 or .308 at this current moment in time.
I'd like to keep my cost on the rifle to less than $600 to start so I can get a feel for things and still have some money for glass and other stuff. To start with I plan on more trying to connect with steel targets at 500yds rather than going for the smallest groups on paper. How much should I expect to be paying for a decent scope for those needs? Anyone have suggestions on some good rifles or brands that I should look into for this type of shooting? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2017 1:38:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: robpiat]
[#1]
I have a Tikka CTR 6.5 and a budget scope. I've tried a variety of different strategies but this is hard to beat. The Tikkas run about 700-800 but they are very smooth and very accurate.
Nothing specifically wrong with the savages aside from they have changed their layout numerous times which frustrates stock makers. The savage would be the bargain buy. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2017 2:17:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: acreativeusername]
[#2]
Originally Posted By robpiat:
I have a Tikka CTR 6.5 and a budget scope. I've tried a variety of different strategies but this is hard to beat. The Tikkas run about 700-800 but they are very smooth and very accurate. Nothing specifically wrong with the savages aside from they have changed their layout numerous times which frustrates stock makers. The savage would be the bargain buy. |
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Posted: 10/6/2017 7:45:37 PM EDT
[#3]
I bought a Tikka CTR in .308 earlier this year and put a Vortex 6-24 HST scope on it with the Vortex precision scope mounts. I ended up spending about $1600 on the set up but I am very happy with it.
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Posted: 10/6/2017 7:54:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Get yourself a Tikka as mentioned above. Athlon scopes have been getting a pretty good reputation lately. Certainly something to check out and they have scope in all differently price ranges. Their Cronus competes very closely to a Vortex Razor gen 2 but I’d look at something like their Ares BTR as it can be found used for about $750 or so
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2017 10:06:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By acreativeusername:
How much did you spend on your scope? I was looking at Tikka's a while ago, but people were saying it wouldn't be worth the money unless I bought a high end scope to go with it. Here are a few suggestions in the sub $500 range that have a decent amount of adjustment. Anything Nikon is good glass but they don’t have a lot of travel. Same with the weaver v series. I currently have 5 of the Sightron S-TAC scopes from 2-10 to 4-20x. They are awesome for the $$$ Also the super sniper scopes are well respected target scopes. Weaver has made some 30mm tube scopes for natchez that get pretty good reviews. I don’t know much about Athlon. They are trying to paint themselves as the next vortex but look like they are just a few guys from the industry that started importing scopes from places in China they heard of while working for a large scope company. I am not sure any of them are actually involved in the design / engineering. |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 9:11:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Watch the local gun shops for old target turret leupold or Redfield scopes. They don't have much travel but are great to learn on. I have a Millet made by Bushnell. It's cheap. But it tracks decent once you figure out the difference. Mine tracks 0.30 and once I put my correction in my shooter app it does alright. Glass is not terribly bad but it does have edge darkness.
But if you can afford better optics it's money in the bank. 30mm tubes will have more travel than one inch tubes. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2017 11:17:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge]
[#7]
A lot of the high end features and upper tier scopes are great for competition, but not necessarily needed for casual and recreational shooting. 10 mil+ turrets, Zero stops, FFP, illumination and lockable turrets are often pointed out as being "must haves", but they really aren't for most shooters. Are they beneficial, of course, but some things are seldom used, such as illumination.
Also keep in mind that once you try or use the higher end optics, it becomes harder to go back to more budget friendly optics. The higher end optics likely won't account for more hits, and certainly not inside of 500 yards on steel, but the image is more pleasant and it's easy to get accustomed to that. The Athlon Ares has good glass and has a lot of features, but I'd still choose a Sightron SIII over it for recreational/target shooting due to the glass and consistent tracking that I've found with them. The Ares is close in optical performance, but I like the SIII's turret feel and resolution more despite the reticle being an old design in the SFP models (mil/mil-dot). A SFP 6-24 SIII can be found for around 650$ depending on turret options, and the glass competes with scopes costing much more. For rifles, a Tikka CTR, T3x or Savage 10T would be good options. I'm considering a Tikka T3x varmint for a 223 build, but I'm on the fence due to the magazine length. May just get a 700 during holiday sales and convert it to 223ai and rechamber the factory barrel for fireforming. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 6:55:32 PM EDT
[#8]
I started with a Tikka 223 Varmint and a 10x SWFA SS in seekins low rings.
Wasn't sure if I'd enjoy precision so I wanted to keep it simple and relatively cheap to shoot/practice. Now have a CTR in 6.5 CM, though I imagine the 223 will still get plenty of action over time given the ease and cost of shooting it. |
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Posted: 10/9/2017 3:20:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Try looking at the Remington 700 HB Varmint model in the caliber of your choice. it comes with a 26" HB and the price is reasonable...It's getting around Holidays Time, you should be able to find one for about 399.00. Also, the Remington 700 has a billion modifications and accessories available. get a scope and rings that you are comfy with. I know about the Cabal's problem, for you, but for a scope, they have (and it was listed as an Outdoor Life best buy) a Cabal's name brand FFP scope for 399.00 also. great scope, clear optics, and a christmas tree reticle. It's called the Covenant 6 - 24 X50. I have that on my Remington 700 HB in 243 Winchester.
Also, you might look at the Ruger American Predator, I have one in 6.5mm Creedmoor. Same optics. GREAT shooter. happy Trails! |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2017 5:14:45 PM EDT
[#10]
I have a true budget setup. Savage 10 FCP-SR in .308 with Primary Arms 4-14x44 FFP mil-dot scope. Total invested is $790 and it shoots sub MOA at 200 yards.
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Posted: 10/9/2017 5:27:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tcoz73:
I have a true budget setup. Savage 10 FCP-SR in .308 with Primary Arms 4-14x44 FFP mil-dot scope. Total invested is $790 and it shoots sub MOA at 200 yards. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2017 8:20:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: avvidclif]
[#12]
I keep seeing used Vortex Vipers in 6-24 for around $600. That's a scope that can be moved on up as the rifle is upgraded. And if you don't like the game it can be sold without losing anything. The warranty is good for whoever has it at the moment, like Leupold, Weaver, and Nikon. Stick a cheap rifle under it and you can upgrade several times before outgrowing the scope and never outgrow the warranty. That's the path I took when the bug bit.
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NH, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2017 11:07:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: acreativeusername]
[#13]
Thanks for all the advice so far, I've decided to tone it down with the chassis and the tacticool accessorizes for now and focus on the essentials after thinking a bit.
I know longer is generally better in regards to barrel length length, but I am thinking about possibly taking up hunting at some point in the near future. Could I pull off both some hunting and long range shooting with a 20" .308, for example a Savage 10FCP-SR like tocz73 mentioned or would I regret lugging around a heavy profile barrel in the wood? Am going about this the wrong way? Should I start with something like a howa 1500 lightning of savage axis and cut my teeth hunting and practice on steel at distance, then when I hit a wall with that, I upgrade to a dedicated rig like a 26" 700 hb varmit like EvilVaquero mentioned? I like the idea of killing two birds with one stone and having one multipurpose rifle/scope though. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2017 11:19:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Remington 700 SPS, its the barbie of bolt guns, you can make it into just about anything that you will ever grow into.
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NH, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2017 11:31:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankW134:
Remington 700 SPS, its the barbie of bolt guns, you can make it into just about anything that you will ever grow into. |
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Posted: 10/10/2017 9:53:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By acreativeusername:
Modern remington's quality issues that I've heard about is the main thing keeping me from being sold on the 700, have they improved since the earlier days of the freedom group take over? I have an acquaintance that bought a basic 700 back in 2012ish iirc, he found a nasty bur in the rifling from the factory. With that said, my partner and I were first issued new LTR's that shot 6" at 100... barrels were FUBAR'ed, Lou's Police Supply swapped them out for the one I have today, so they (Rem) have let lemons out the door. 
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Posted: 10/10/2017 6:20:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tcoz73:
I have a true budget setup. Savage 10 FCP-SR in .308 with Primary Arms 4-14x44 FFP mil-dot scope. Total invested is $790 and it shoots sub MOA at 200 yards. I went with a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor. I put a Burris MTAC 3.5-10x on it originally, in Burris Signature Zee rings. I came across a deal on a Sig Tango6 3-18x FFP mil/mil scope, so I jumped on that. The Ruger will hold 1" groups at 100 yards with Hornady American Whitetail and will go down around 3/4" with the match stuff. Buy the time I get bored with the Ruger, I'll have a better idea of what I want. My understanding is that many rifles are more than capable of the necessary accuracy. As the shooter's skills improve and distances get longer, a better scope comes into play due to the repeatability of adjustments. FFP might become a must-have if you need the BDC or ranging capabilities such a reticle offers. |
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Posted: 10/10/2017 7:37:57 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 10/10/2017 7:55:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CanNevrHaveEnuffGuns]
[#19]
Tikka is a smooth action and really darn accurate. My suggestion is the CTR 24" 6.5 Creedmoor. Savage is silly accurate too, but I don't prefer the actions or the bar in the trigger. It distracts me from a natural trigger feel. Home barrel swaps are a plus.
You should stick to 6.5, or maybe a .223. Ammo is cheap and accurate. I seriously contemplated.308 and after long thought, found out the 6.5 CM just does the job better, with less recoil. If you're willing to go $850-950, the Bergara HMR is an outstanding value. A friend just bought one and his very first time sighting in, he put up a .71 group with cheap $20 Hornady Black 6.5 Creedmoor 140 gr OTM. He's never shot precision guns before. That gun has a great stock and actually an amazing trigger. It's based on the Remington footprint so aftermarket is solid. You're lucky because there are so many choices to enter this sport at a reasonable cost for the gun. As for glass, if you're spending under $700, then I think SWFA Super Sniper is absolutely the correct choice. |
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Posted: 10/10/2017 8:04:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Deere_John_16]
[#20]
Savage Model 10 FP is a great out of the box 1MOA rifle. I have it in 223 and a REM 700 LTR in .308. The Rem 700 is certainly higher end, but the Savage Model 10 hangs well with it, and the accutrigger is very nice.
For glass I've tried a lot of things but keep coming back to Leupold. You can get great glass for well under $400, and even in the $200 range you can get a pretty good scope. It won't have the tactical turrets (unless you go for the Mark AR series) but will be a solid scope. I did try out the Vortex and like them as well, but standardized my scopes on Leupold for consistency in features. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2017 1:40:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Go with the Tikka, the quality and action is better than any Remington or Savage I've ever owned. I have a ctr 260 now and in the market for a 223 varmint, I let my brother shoot mine and he sold his Remington 700 several days later to buy a Tikka. I've yet to hear of a Tikka that wasn't a shooter out of the box and the smooth action is just icing on the cake.
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MA, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2017 9:12:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EzGoingKev]
[#22]
The Ruger RPR fits your requirements. Shoots under MOA, takes a variety of magazines, shares some parts w/ the AR, and has a good trigger out of the box.
When you want to upgrade their are multiple brand custom barrels & replacement rails available. Timney and JARD make triggers for it. It will take any AR type stock. It is easy to work on. You can swap the barrel out in 15 minutes using cheap tools that are readily available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AlwsoMYOVg |
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Posted: 10/11/2017 11:58:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cone256]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EzGoingKev:
The Ruger RPR fits your requirements. Shoots under MOA, takes a variety of magazines, shares some parts w/ the AR, and has a good trigger out of the box. When you want to upgrade their are multiple brand custom barrels & replacement rails available. Timney and JARD make triggers for it. It will take any AR type stock. It is easy to work on. You can swap the barrel out in 15 minutes using cheap tools that are readily available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AlwsoMYOVg |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2017 1:10:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Honestly, if you want to learn how to shoot good groups and hone your skills before extending your range for as cheap as possible?
Savage MkII with CCI Standard velocity is going to be your best bet. |
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Posted: 10/11/2017 5:05:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gwood188:
Honestly, if you want to learn how to shoot good groups and hone your skills before extending your range for as cheap as possible? Savage MkII with CCI Standard velocity is going to be your best bet. Yeah and it's fun. Or a CZ .22. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2017 11:58:52 PM EDT
[#26]
I was torn between Savage and Remington. I ended up with a Savage 10 Precision Carbine in 308 that has been awesome for me. I put the standard SWFA SS 10x on it and haven't looked back. After getting on paper with mil surplus ammo I grouped FGMM 168gr that came in at MOA. This has been my cow elk rifle for the last 3 years and this year I was checking zero and prepping for my hunt and realized that the surplus 147gr shot MOA too. So I bought my preferred hunting round in the closest weight, 150, and it is suddenly a 1/2 MOA gun all day long. Not sure if I just got lucky with this particular rifle since it's my first and only Savage, but it is great for my use.
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Posted: 10/14/2017 12:07:27 AM EDT
[#27]
$400 would get you a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor. You will get bored at 500 yards pretty quickly.
I sell the Tikka CTR in my store but I am really liking the Bergara offerings as well. Those are 2.5-3x times the cost of the Ruger. I would get something lightweight since the recoil is mild and it will be easier to tote or hunt with. Get your feet wet with something cheap that you could easily resell once you get a better feel for exactly what hardware you need. Whatever scope you get make sure it has target turrets. |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 12:15:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strat81:
As a noob myself, I followed a similar path. I don't know what I don't know at this point, and buying high-dollar stuff right out of the gate seemed like a good way to end up with buyer's remorse. I sell the Ruger 6.5 Predator five-to-one over every other rifle. Get your feet wet and avoid the buy once cry once mantra because there is always something that is a better value around the corner. If you budget was $900 for a rifle go for the Bergara. A lot of guys who bought the RPRs get tired of the weight and and ind up adding something lighter to the collection. |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 8:29:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: strat81]
[#29]
I just got back from my first long range shoot, which was a quasi F-class/benchrest match posing as a fun shoot. We shot at 600 yards, my first real experience shooting at a distance like this. I had a blast!
What did I learn? -Gun people are the best people. Everyone was really friendly and helpful, despite the miserable conditions. -Check the weather and bring appropriate clothing and/or outerwear. I was cold and wet.
-Purpose-built rifles win. My Ruger Predator was a fish out of water, but to its credit and the Hornady 4DOF app, I hit the target every time. The calc called for 4.89 mils, and I ended up dialing in 5 mils even and was on target. There were several Ruger Precision Rifles there and while the owners liked them and praised them, they all admitted that the dedicated rifles were better tools for this game. Plenty of SFP scopes and even a couple of fixed power bench rest scopes were there. The big dogs agreed that FFP is of little benefit in F-class but said it's very valuable in PRS-style matches where you have targets at unknown distances. The advice I received was: -Don't buy a new rifle yet -Learn to read wind (it went from 0, to 5, to 10 during our shot strings according to the experienced guys, played hell with everyone's results) -Get proficient with your chosen "rest" - bipod, bags, fancy-pants $800 machined front rest, etc. -When you can keep them all in the 9-ring or better, it might be time for a dedicated rifle So, I stand by my advice above but will tweak it by saying buy a decent rifle for $400-$600, learn your fundamentals, then decide which long-range disciplines you will pursue. Quality optics and rings can be moved, so I'd be more inclined to get a $500 gun and a $1,000 optic than a $1,000 gun and a $500 optic. |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 8:50:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Great info. Any recommendations for a left-handed brand/caliber?
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NH, USA
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Posted: 10/15/2017 1:54:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Thank you for all the information, really helped me get a good idea where to start. Has anyone tried the howa rifles? Thinking about maybe getting a 1500 lightning in .308 or 6.5 or waiting for the heavy barrel barreled actions to go on sale for $300ish again. I handled an older one at a gun show a while back and it seemed pretty nice, figure it would be a good hunter and target rifle until I decide to bump up to a purpose built gun.
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Posted: 10/15/2017 12:27:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZRXHooligan:
Great info. Any recommendations for a left-handed brand/caliber? In for answers from those with more experience. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/15/2017 8:36:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strat81:
Never heard of a left-handed caliber. In for answers from those with more experience. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strat81:
Originally Posted By ZRXHooligan:
Great info. Any recommendations for a left-handed brand/caliber? In for answers from those with more experience. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2017 10:55:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By robpiat:
There’s quite a bit of misinformation floating around about scopes as well as a fast ramp up in scope technology and prices. Bottom line is that people were shooting tiny groups with second focal plane scopes without target turrets and crosshairs reticle. You can do fine with a fixed power and a mildot reticle. You don't need a ffp scope with mill turrets and mil reticle, but it helps. SWFA super sniper scopes are good for the money. I have a falcon menace 4-14x44 ffp illuminated mil/mil on my precision ar and it was $400. It tracks reliably, glass is good for the money. It's no s&b pm2, but it works. Some say spend as much on the scope as the rifle, but that's debatable. I would say spend at least as much on the scope up to twice as much as the barrel costs. Any more than that and you are just being a glass snob or it's a status symbol |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2017 12:14:11 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coble9:
Some say spend as much on the scope as the rifle, but that's debatable. I would say spend at least as much on the scope up to twice as much as the barrel costs. Any more than that and you are just being a glass snob or it's a status symbol |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 6:04:31 AM EDT
[#36]
I have a FN SPR A1 .308 with a U.S. Optics SN3 sitting on it. Chrome lined barrel shoots .7 -.5 moa all day long. Amazing to me the newbie to bolt guns. But she's a fat hog. weights a ton. I just gambled and ordered a Remington 700 SPS tactical 16.5 threaded barrel. 308 . $600 from buds NIB . My angle was the after market is so big for these actions that I can change a shit load years down the line. I got the 16.5 barrel for weight and handiness .The threaded barrel opens alot of possibilities
 Praying for no quality issues. It will be here this week. Well see. Cheers and good luck Wardawg
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Posted: 10/20/2017 6:07:02 AM EDT
[#37]
If you can find one, an FNH Patrol Bolt Rifle is a good option to consider.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:10:45 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge:
With most match barrels running 340$ and the proofs running closer to 800$, I can assure you that there are things that you can’t see with a 680$ optic that you can see with a 2k+ optic. Have you ever tried to view a partially hidden 66% ipsc Target late into a match that has almost all of the paint removed? Have you tried to shoot half moa targets beyond 1200yds? How about just LR in heavy mirage? Sometimes you get what you pay for, and the higher end optics typically deliver amazing resolution and reliable tracking. That’s often not the case with more budget friendly optics. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2017 3:51:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By acreativeusername:
Thank you for all the information, really helped me get a good idea where to start. Has anyone tried the howa rifles? Thinking about maybe getting a 1500 lightning in .308 or 6.5 or waiting for the heavy barrel barreled actions to go on sale for $300ish again. I handled an older one at a gun show a while back and it seemed pretty nice, figure it would be a good hunter and target rifle until I decide to bump up to a purpose built gun. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2017 9:48:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaoeyp:
I own 4 Howa barreled actions (used to have 1 more) and they have ALL been sub MOA. If you want to get into long range shooting, I definitely recommend a heavy barrel from them; the lightnings are great for hunting but will heat soak quickly. There are a lot of good stock and chassis options out there for these guns too. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/21/2017 2:44:06 PM EDT
[#41]
I like my LTR... I also have some time behind my Uncles FN SPR, wouldnt hesitate to grab one of those either. Both nice factory rifles IMO.
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Posted: 10/21/2017 4:32:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Tikka or rpr
Shot out the original barrel learning the ropes. New Barrel and glass took it to the next level. The ability to change things yourself make these platforms appealing to me.  Attached File |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2017 10:52:31 PM EDT
[#43]
I have a savage fcp-sr10 with a trijicon accupower 2.5x10x56 scope and moa/moa reticle and turret I have 1100.00 in the whole package by watching for sales . the fcp comes with an accu-stock which has an aluminum chassis and the accu-trigger which is adjustable along with 10 shot detachable magazine . the rifle can be purchased in 308 or 6.5 . I think the rifle is a good starting point plus swapping the barrel is not a big deal and can be done with a few tools and vise . after market stocks and chassis are avalibe if or when you decide to change or up grade different bottom metal is avalible if you choose to go with a different magazine , some people claim they have trouble , I have not .
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