Posted: 9/6/2016 10:20:46 PM EDT
| Looking for insight from anyone with knowledge with Defiance, Surgeon or American Rifle Company's Mausingfield. I have been leaning towards the Mausingfield or Defiance but want to hear from someone that has some experience behind either and if there is any performance preference between any of them. Post pics if you got them also. |
| i don't have a mausingfield (and no plan to buy one) but I have owned several of the others. just my opinion, but if I were buying today for a right-handed shooter looking for a tactical/field rifle, my order of preference would be Impact, Defiance, Surgeon, ..., mausingfield |
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You really won't see much, if any, accuracy gains between a Surgeon, Defiance, and Mausingfield action. Most of the accuracy potential comes from the barrel and rifle smith (bedding, chambering, etc.). That said, the action should have the features/specs you want and need. Do you want an integrated, one-piece rail? Do you want an integrated, one-piece recoil lug? What kind of extraction do you want? Do you want/need controlled round feed? And so on.
The Mausingfield looks kinda interesting. And it has some innovative features. But... do you really need those features? I have a Defiance Deviant Tactical. And I've never had a jam. Never had a misfeed. Never had a problem with it ever. It does what it's supposed to do. So I don't necessarily know how any other action would function correctly, better. Functioning correctly is functioning correctly. Another action can't be more better. So really, it'll come down to how cool the action looks and if it has the features you want. I went with Defiance because they have a good reputation and they let you customize anything and everything about the action. I wanted a small firing pin hole. Done. I wanted a blind bolt release. Done. I wanted custom-depth fluting on the bolt. Done. I wanted to be able to use AW mags. Done. I wanted an integral, one-piece 20 MOA rail. Done. I wanted an integral, one-piece recoil lug. Done. I wanted a custom, multi-faceted bolt shroud. Done. I wanted a custom-length port. Done. I wanted a custom bolt knob. Done. I liked Defiance's primary extraction. Defiance will never say no. Surgeon? Meh. They're ok I guess. But you can't customize what you want. Mausingfield? Some really cool innovation and novelty. And I wouldn't mind trying one. But I went with Defiance because I think they look cooler haha. No regrets with my decision. 
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sort of a box that holds your trigger and screws into the bottom of the action, as opposed to pins that come in from the side. Dumb question but why would you want that over pins? Is it just for retention purposes when removing the action from the stock/chassis? |
| well... i'm probably way out in left field on this, but i think bolt guns would be much more reliable if the action was glued into the stock, like AIAWs are. I can glue my custom action into my sentinel stock just fine. but once i do that, the trigger is basically stuck forever and there's no way to get it out if it ever needed maintenance or broke a spring or pin or something. unless i have a trigger hanger, then i can pull it out the bottom. |
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You typically find trigger hangers on benchrest guns. I don't think that's what we're talking about here... Especially if you have a Sentinel stock, which was created for duty weapons (SWAT, military, etc.). Shooting a 0.17 group vs a 0.2 group doesn't matter for those applications. They need a reliable weapon that's easy to maneuver in tight spaces. Can a Sentinel stock even accommodate an action with a hanger that you can access from the bottom without removing the action? I don't think so.
If you want a hanger, maybe try BAT Machine. But it won't be a 700-pattern action. And it won't be a repeater (single shot only). Really depends on OP's needs and application. If OP is shooting F-Class, he might not really need a repeater because he can single feed during matches. But if he wants to shoot tactical, PRS, steel matches, or just plain old wants a repeater or a rifle with detachable mags, then I wouldn't recommend a benchrest type of action with a trigger hanger. 
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yep, that's what we're talking about.
as far as duty weapons go.... you might want to let a lot of companies know they need to put out a recall notice. here's AIAW / AIAX trigger hanger 
and surgeon's XL action for 338LM also uses a hanger 
and GAP's Tempest 
and kebly's atlas tactical action... and yep, they can work with the sentinel. |
| Accuracy wise you won't see anything. That is all in the barrel blank and quality of the work. I have a rebel and deviant that are private labeled. I guess I'm a defiance guy. I like the features, especially the primary extraction. You really can't go wrong with any of the well know custom actions it's just a matter of what you want. |
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Sorry, I was specifically talking about the Sentinel stock, because you brought it up. Do people permanently bond their actions to a Sentinel stock? In any event, meh. Trigger hanger. No trigger hanger. Do whatever makes you happy I guess. not that i know of. i suppose most people want to be able to swap any barreled action into it just by changing two screws. i'll grant it seems odd to put an aluminum block in there so you don't even have to bed it, and then glue it in... i know it will work but my problem is the impact action has a trigger hanger but doesn't come with left hand bolt. the tempest has a trigger hanger but doesn't come with left bolt. the defiance comes in left bolt, but no trigger hanger. the surgeon comes in left bolt, but no trigger hanger. the AXMC which has trigger hanger, and already glued in, will be available left handed next year, and i plan to buy one but i don't like the chassis quite as much as the sentinel. |
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Why do you want a trigger hanger? Because you want a glued-in action? Why do you want a glued-in action? Because you think it's more accurate?
What type of shooting are you doing where you need the accuracy difference between a bedded action vs fully glued in? And what is that accuracy difference? Most people shooting a Sentinel stock are—like I said above—SWAT, military, duty. Or... they are in PRS and need a maneuverable stock for competition. And none of those applications require super uber tiny groups. So my point is, if you need the accuracy bump you might get from a fully glued-in action, you're probably not shooting a tactical application, but maybe benchrest? And in that case, you wouldn't be using a Sentinel. So I'm curious about what your specific application and type of shooting is. :) |
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"Why do you want a glued-in action? Because you think it's more accurate? "
because I think it will be more durable. hold up to abuse longer. less likely to lose zero after rolling down a mountain side or while bouncing across BLM roads in a vehicle. The GA match in November will be my 50th PRS-style match since 2011. This post has pics of the rifle and how it shoots. My expectation is not that the groups drop from .5 MOA to .2 MOA, but rather that I don't get any half inch or inch POI shifts after driving to NE or WY or FL or TX or flying to WA. I don't like tweaking my zero the day before a match. |
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You really won't see much, if any, accuracy gains between a Surgeon, Defiance, and Mausingfield action. Most of the accuracy potential comes from the barrel and rifle smith (bedding, chambering, etc.). That said, the action should have the features/specs you want and need. Do you want an integrated, one-piece rail? Do you want an integrated, one-piece recoil lug? What kind of extraction do you want? Do you want/need controlled round feed? And so on. The Mausingfield looks kinda interesting. And it has some innovative features. But... do you really need those features? I have a Defiance Deviant Tactical. And I've never had a jam. Never had a misfeed. Never had a problem with it ever. It does what it's supposed to do. So I don't necessarily know how any other action would function correctly, better. Functioning correctly is functioning correctly. Another action can't be more better. So really, it'll come down to how cool the action looks and if it has the features you want. I went with Defiance because they have a good reputation and they let you customize anything and everything about the action. I wanted a small firing pin hole. Done. I wanted a blind bolt release. Done. I wanted custom-depth fluting on the bolt. Done. I wanted to be able to use AW mags. Done. I wanted an integral, one-piece 20 MOA rail. Done. I wanted an integral, one-piece recoil lug. Done. I wanted a custom, multi-faceted bolt shroud. Done. I wanted a custom-length port. Done. I wanted a custom bolt knob. Done. I liked Defiance's primary extraction. Defiance will never say no. Surgeon? Meh. They're ok I guess. But you can't customize what you want. Mausingfield? Some really cool innovation and novelty. And I wouldn't mind trying one. But I went with Defiance because I think they look cooler haha. No regrets with my decision. http://orig05.deviantart.net/a488/f/2015/346/c/3/rifle_mockup_by_haftelm-d9jd01i.jpg http://orig15.deviantart.net/092b/f/2015/326/b/c/action_by_haftelm-d9hobq1.jpg http://orig05.deviantart.net/2f37/f/2015/326/4/a/action2_by_haftelm-d9hobq9.jpg http://orig02.deviantart.net/5d78/f/2016/145/7/6/darkknight_by_haftelm-da3t6z0.jpg http://pre04.deviantart.net/d9ee/th/pre/f/2016/225/1/a/dark_night_2_by_haftelm-dadt44y.jpg Ooh! That's a very sexy looking action. What's it chambered in? |
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"Why do you want a glued-in action? Because you think it's more accurate? " because I think it will be more durable. hold up to abuse longer. less likely to lose zero after rolling down a mountain side or while bouncing across BLM roads in a vehicle. The GA match in November will be my 50th PRS-style match since 2011. This post has pics of the rifle and how it shoots. My expectation is not that the groups drop from .5 MOA to .2 MOA, but rather that I don't get any half inch or inch POI shifts after driving to NE or WY or FL or TX or flying to WA. I don't like tweaking my zero the day before a match. Oh, ok gotcha. So one more question: I always hear/read about people talking about how proper bedding or glued-in helps to keep your zero. But... as far as I know... the scope and your barrel/action are all rock solid and attached to each other. Why does the action-to-stock marriage matter in that regard? If your action moves int he stock, your scope and barrel move right along with it. So how does that affect your zero? I could take my action completely out of my stock and shoot it from a vice and the zero shouldn't change. |
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Quick question, what do you call "Blind bolt release" as opposed to a regular bolt release. Thanks, that's a beautiful rifle you have there. Look at the photo I posted of the left side of my action. You see the bolt release there? Do you see a hole for a pin/screw to hold it in the receiver? That's what's called "blind." It's threaded from the bottom of the receiver so you don't see the hole. |
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Thank you for your response. I didn't know it was an option, it sure looks good
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Look at the photo I posted of the left side of my action. You see the bolt release there? Do you see a hole for a pin/screw to hold it in the receiver? That's what's called "blind." It's threaded from the bottom of the receiver so you don't see the hole. Quoted:
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Quick question, what do you call "Blind bolt release" as opposed to a regular bolt release. Thanks, that's a beautiful rifle you have there. Look at the photo I posted of the left side of my action. You see the bolt release there? Do you see a hole for a pin/screw to hold it in the receiver? That's what's called "blind." It's threaded from the bottom of the receiver so you don't see the hole. |
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Quoted: Oh, ok gotcha. So one more question: I always hear/read about people talking about how proper bedding or glued-in helps to keep your zero. But... as far as I know... the scope and your barrel/action are all rock solid and attached to each other. Why does the action-to-stock marriage matter in that regard? If your action moves int he stock, your scope and barrel move right along with it. So how does that affect your zero? I could take my action completely out of my stock and shoot it from a vice and the zero shouldn't change. |
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Oh, ok gotcha. So one more question: I always hear/read about people talking about how proper bedding or glued-in helps to keep your zero. But... as far as I know... the scope and your barrel/action are all rock solid and attached to each other. Why does the action-to-stock marriage matter in that regard? If your action moves int he stock, your scope and barrel move right along with it. So how does that affect your zero? I could take my action completely out of my stock and shoot it from a vice and the zero shouldn't change. I can't prove or demonstrate that it does cause a problem. But consider how "bipod hop" on concrete, or shooting with different shoulder pressure can affect POI. sometimes they seem rock solid, but i've seen too many scopes and rings etc shift. it happens. |
| I dont have a dog in this fight, but my vote is Mausingfield. Too many incremental improvements over all the others you listed. It takes the best parts of a Mauser and Springfield action and makes it work with probably all Remington triggers, BDMs, and stocks in a single package. And if you are the type that does it yourself, the barrels screw in like a Savage, so you can be headspaced in 15 minutes if youre changing a barrel. The others are nice, but at their heart are still nothing more than a Remington 700 action. The only time I wouldnt consider a Mausingfield action is if I was shooting F Class where I have to feed single, and then Id want something that feeds left, ejects right. |
| Just another data point: a bunch of Mausingfields passed a fairly rigorous test last week at the Sniper's Hide Cup. Apparently, conditions were bad (rain in Washington, who knew?) and some rifles went down with all the mud and water but the Mausingfields ran without a hiccup. Cool design, I'm trying to decide between a Mausingfield and an AI for my next PR. |
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Just another data point: a bunch of Mausingfields passed a fairly rigorous test last week at the Sniper's Hide Cup. Apparently, conditions were bad (rain in Washington, who knew?) and some rifles went down with all the mud and water but the Mausingfields ran without a hiccup. Cool design, I'm trying to decide between a Mausingfield and an AI for my next PR. That really boils down to 2 things: 1) Do you like the AI chassis? 2) Do you want the rifle now or do you want it 6+ months from now? If you answer YES to both questions get the AI. If not then go custom and wait so you get what you want. |
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I want a mausingfield. It is the ultimate Savage Action. Solves all the problems associated with the Savage. And it has a barrel nut. You can have multiple calibers just with a simple barrel switch. 20 minutes at the most.
. Shooting targets put on your 6mm BR barrel or a dasher. Need a little more range slap on the 6.5 creedmoor Hunting antelope? pick your favorite caliber and slap on the barrel. Long range mulies? 6.5 saum Elk? 300 WSM. the options are endless and a premium barrel only cost $350 you could even have 2 different stocks. Hunting and targets. one gun that does it all! |
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I want a mausingfield. It is the ultimate Savage Action. Solves all the problems associated with the Savage. And it has a barrel nut. You can have multiple calibers just with a simple barrel switch. 20 minutes at the most. . Shooting targets put on your 6mm BR barrel or a dasher. Need a little more range slap on the 6.5 creedmoor Hunting antelope? pick your favorite caliber and slap on the barrel. Long range mulies? 6.5 saum Elk? 300 WSM. the options are endless and a premium barrel only cost $350 you could even have 2 different stocks. Hunting and targets. one gun that does it all! Or...you can go for an ARC long action. I have almost 1k down range with a Mausingfield long action. I have H-S Precision bottom metal mags...never a miss feed 3 to 7 round mag magazines. Never a failure to eject with even hot loads. Do not have to inlet your Rem 700 stock. Your scope rail is included with the action...My barrel does have a barrel nut...I am able to load to 3.7" with the mag box... If you are looking at a custom action...look into the ARC Mausingfield action...disclosure...I have talked to Ted on the phone...:-) |
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I dont have a dog in this fight, but my vote is Mausingfield. Too many incremental improvements over all the others you listed. It takes the best parts of a Mauser and Springfield action and makes it work with probably all Remington triggers, BDMs, and stocks in a single package. And if you are the type that does it yourself, the barrels screw in like a Savage, so you can be headspaced in 15 minutes if youre changing a barrel. The others are nice, but at their heart are still nothing more than a Remington 700 action. The only time I wouldnt consider a Mausingfield action is if I was shooting F Class where I have to feed single, and then Id want something that feeds left, ejects right. I single feed all the time with out any issues. What are your issues with single feeding the Mausingfield action? |
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well... i'm probably way out in left field on this, but i think bolt guns would be much more reliable if the action was glued into the stock, like AIAWs are. I can glue my custom action into my sentinel stock just fine. but once i do that, the trigger is basically stuck forever and there's no way to get it out if it ever needed maintenance or broke a spring or pin or something. unless i have a trigger hanger, then i can pull it out the bottom. No sir, you're not. That's exactly why I wanted one. 
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No sir, you're not. That's exactly why I wanted one. Quoted:
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well... i'm probably way out in left field on this, but i think bolt guns would be much more reliable if the action was glued into the stock, like AIAWs are. I can glue my custom action into my sentinel stock just fine. but once i do that, the trigger is basically stuck forever and there's no way to get it out if it ever needed maintenance or broke a spring or pin or something. unless i have a trigger hanger, then i can pull it out the bottom. No sir, you're not. That's exactly why I wanted one. What did I just misread? |
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What did I just misread? Quoted:
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well... i'm probably way out in left field on this, but i think bolt guns would be much more reliable if the action was glued into the stock, like AIAWs are. I can glue my custom action into my sentinel stock just fine. but once i do that, the trigger is basically stuck forever and there's no way to get it out if it ever needed maintenance or broke a spring or pin or something. unless i have a trigger hanger, then i can pull it out the bottom. No sir, you're not. That's exactly why I wanted one. What did I just misread? Gluing an action into a stock makes for a more consistent gun but with how most rifle actions are set up you'll never be able to get your trigger out to work on it if it's glued in. |
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Gluing an action into a stock makes for a more consistent gun but with how most rifle actions are set up you'll never be able to get your trigger out to work on it if it's glued in. Quoted:
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well... i'm probably way out in left field on this, but i think bolt guns would be much more reliable if the action was glued into the stock, like AIAWs are. I can glue my custom action into my sentinel stock just fine. but once i do that, the trigger is basically stuck forever and there's no way to get it out if it ever needed maintenance or broke a spring or pin or something. unless i have a trigger hanger, then i can pull it out the bottom. No sir, you're not. That's exactly why I wanted one. What did I just misread? Gluing an action into a stock makes for a more consistent gun but with how most rifle actions are set up you'll never be able to get your trigger out to work on it if it's glued in. Thanks...I ground out my barrel channel with the new Stocky Stock...with their new accublock...? Did not have to worry about a trigger... |
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I dont have a dog in this fight, but my vote is Mausingfield. Too many incremental improvements over all the others you listed. It takes the best parts of a Mauser and Springfield action and makes it work with probably all Remington triggers, BDMs, and stocks in a single package. And if you are the type that does it yourself, the barrels screw in like a Savage, so you can be headspaced in 15 minutes if youre changing a barrel. The others are nice, but at their heart are still nothing more than a Remington 700 action. The only time I wouldnt consider a Mausingfield action is if I was shooting F Class where I have to feed single, and then Id want something that feeds left, ejects right. Just watched a couple videos, now I want a Mausingfield action. Guess I'll just throw my Savage in the trash. |
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The Mausingfield is a great action, I played with a few and really like them. However, bolt heads and extractors other than standard size are slow coming and the bolt requires tools for takedown. The TL3 bolt comes apart in seconds with no tools and spares are abundant. I would also like to see a three position safety on the bolt, its just me but if it has a claw I want the safety on the bolt. |
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Just watched a couple videos, now I want a Mausingfield action. Guess I'll just throw my Savage in the trash. Quoted:
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I dont have a dog in this fight, but my vote is Mausingfield. Too many incremental improvements over all the others you listed. It takes the best parts of a Mauser and Springfield action and makes it work with probably all Remington triggers, BDMs, and stocks in a single package. And if you are the type that does it yourself, the barrels screw in like a Savage, so you can be headspaced in 15 minutes if youre changing a barrel. The others are nice, but at their heart are still nothing more than a Remington 700 action. The only time I wouldnt consider a Mausingfield action is if I was shooting F Class where I have to feed single, and then Id want something that feeds left, ejects right. Just watched a couple videos, now I want a Mausingfield action. Guess I'll just throw my Savage in the trash. Why...you can use the same barrels that you use with your Savage action...just have to get Rem 700 accoutrements...:-) |