Posted: 4/11/2016 11:04:53 AM EDT
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I think I need a bolt gun after taking a long range class at my range yesterday.
Just recently built a 6.5 Grendel to run out to 750 - but now I have the bug to go from 750 to 1000. This will require me to get something more precise. Knowing that 6.5 RPR's are next to impossible to find at the moment I'm leaning towards the Savage 10T from cabelas in 6.5cm. I've been told that while 6.5CM is awesome my first should be a .308 1.) I won't be reloading. I'm busy almost all the time and it's easier to buy factory ammo. 2.) I've got a SWFA 12x to use on the rifle - would just need to get a 20moa base and rings. 3.) I'm on a budget. First child is 12weeks away and I'll have to have a few EE sales to thin the herd to have "fun" money. Is there a good entry gun in the $500-700 range I should be looking at besides the Savage 10T? Is 6.5CM the way to go? Figure I can get a chassis system down the road after the baby arrives. |
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I would suggest save up a little more and buy a Ruger RPR in 6.5CM and get you a case of Prime 130gr and you'll be way ahead of the standard learning curve. Good luck The cost isn't the issue for the RPR it's availability. Well that and I'm not going to pay $1500 for a $1000 rifle. |
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Spoke with a high volume precision shooter who did share a different angle.
"I'd get the .308 even though the 6.5 has better ELR performance" 1.) Since I am not going to be competing and using this for just general plinking / plate shooting I'd be better served with a .308. 2.) lower cost "decent" but not match ammo will allow me to shoot higher volume and work on fundamentals from 300-750 yards. This would include reading wind, learning good dope / ballistics, etc. 3.) match ammo that is available will let me apply what I've learned at shorter ranges to the 1000 yard targets. 4.) when I truly have the need for a newer round - a conversion to 6.5CM is an easy swap for most cases. If I get serious the costs associated with 6.5CM are not that big of a concern. 5.) you can get .308 anywhere, from match ammo to just general fun shooting options. 6.) reloading changes it all - but you're not doing that so its a mute point. Some valid point from a guy who does this quite often. |
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Serious question: why do all of these people keep saying "I think I will go with the 308 now and rebarrel to a 6.5 when the time comes"?
Why not go ahead and learn on what you're already telling yourself you'll eventually get? I'm no expert, but I think if you shot 1k rounds of 308 and then 1k rounds of 6.5 vs. 2k rounds of 6.5, you'd be a "better" shooter in terms of using the 6.5 after shooting 2k round of it and it alone. Not being a troll here...seriously though, it peaks my curiosity every time I see it. Especially when the people stating it are not mentioning they're setup for 308 loading already (which the does not seem to be the case here). And yes, that's a valid point from a guy who does it often, but keep in mind the other valid points of guys who do it as much or more and weigh them both equally/fairly in your comparison. Best of luck in your decision |
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The cost isn't the issue for the RPR it's availability. Well that and I'm not going to pay $1500 for a $1000 rifle. Quoted:
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I would suggest save up a little more and buy a Ruger RPR in 6.5CM and get you a case of Prime 130gr and you'll be way ahead of the standard learning curve. Good luck The cost isn't the issue for the RPR it's availability. Well that and I'm not going to pay $1500 for a $1000 rifle. No shit, huh? I can't believe people are paying over MSRP for this damn thing. It's a great factory rifle, but come on, for that price, I'd much rather have a Tikka T3 in a Whiskey 3 chassis. I figure in about a year or two from now, once Ruger has caught up and satisfied the crazy demand, the RPR's will be in the used market. Retail on them is about 1000-1100.00, so I'm hoping to see used market at 800 or so. They get excellent reviews and are an awesome way to get into precision rifle shooting, particularly with the 6.5CM cartridge. However, you now have Savage coming to bat with something other than that awfully heavy Model 10 BA. I'm sure Tikka will come on board with a precision rifle offering outside of the CTR, that would be rad. I truly believe Remington doesn't give a flying fuck in a rolling doughnut about what their customer's desire, so they'll probably come out with some other iteration of that Tracking Point horseshit that nobody will continue to buy. That company really needs to get their shit together, seriously. They have the potential to do some damage in this market, but it's like they're happy just quietly slinking into the background while all of these other companies step up and handle business. Savage and Ruger should get a lot of credit for listening to their customers. Sign of a great company. Damn I went off on a tangent, huh? HAHA!! ETA - I didn't even tell you how I voted...Anyhow, I don't know what defines a "high volume precision rifle shooter," but I shoot a shit ton of precision rifle and completely disagree with your friend's assessment. With a proper brake/can, the CM can be tamed so that you can spot your own shots, which is mission critical in our game. If you're shooting non-match ammo, you're not precision rifle shooting. Shooting plates at distance is difficult enough with good/decent ammo, and although it's possible with sub-par ammo to hit plates at distance, your results will not be repeatable, which renders moot the education you were supposed to receive whilst shooting this plentifully cheap, shitty ammo. Alas! Go with the Creedmoor. It's a badass round. Super accurate, superior ballistics, and retains energy like a fucking freight train at distance in the event you find yourself needing to slay some game animals. |
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Spoke with a high volume precision shooter who did share a different angle. "I'd get the .308 even though the 6.5 has better ELR performance" 1.) Since I am not going to be competing and using this for just general plinking / plate shooting I'd be better served with a .308. 2.) lower cost "decent" but not match ammo will allow me to shoot higher volume and work on fundamentals from 300-750 yards. This would include reading wind, learning good dope / ballistics, etc. 3.) match ammo that is available will let me apply what I've learned at shorter ranges to the 1000 yard targets. 4.) when I truly have the need for a newer round - a conversion to 6.5CM is an easy swap for most cases. If I get serious the costs associated with 6.5CM are not that big of a concern. 5.) you can get .308 anywhere, from match ammo to just general fun shooting options. 6.) reloading changes it all - but you're not doing that so its a mute point. Some valid point from a guy who does this quite often. Even though the OP went with a 6.5 in the end, I'm going to address these for future readers with the same question (not to you OP). A couple years ago, most of these points were pretty valid. That is no longer the case, and I'll go point by point to illustrate: 1) Um, no. "Plinking" is for the .223 and 77's, not the .308. 2) Less accurate ammo will hinder development of the fundamentals, not accelerate them. Fundamentals are learned by controlling for as many of the variables as possible, including the accuracy of the system, read of the environment, and reliable hit/miss spotting. Otherwise, what are you learning? 3) See #2. 4) The costs of a Creedmoor are no more than a .308 at this point to acquire and shoot. 5) True. General availability is the main reason to have a .308 at this point. But that's what AR10's are for. Are you really planning on running surplus ammo through your "fine" bolt gun? Now that Hornady is making the ELD-X load, there is not even the fallback of using the .308 for hunting big game. 6) Not any more, and it is a mute point. All of that addressed, here are some reasons why .308 is still useful, even though not superior to off-the-shelf Creedmoor: a) Using high-accuracy ammo, the .308 is less forgiving in the wind. You will learn how to look for subtle shifts a bit faster. However, this particular training advantage can be bypassed by using a Creedmoor at smaller targets. The better alternative (and much less expensive) is actually a .223 with 77's. b) Increased recoil demands greater focus on the fundamentals of making the shot and tensioning the weapon. Learn how to drive with a .308, and the lighter cartridges will seem more forgiving. c) Old-school factor: it's fun to beat the latest cartridge fad in competition using a .308. If you had asked me this 3 years ago, I was still on the fence and the .308 was the known quantity. At this point, we know enough about the behaviour of the Creedmoor in terms of ballistics, barrel life, ammo consistency, and rifle quality to confidently point the new shooter to the Creedmoor out of the gate. If you really feel the need to shoot at a .308 level, buy the 120gr Amax loads, they are much closer to .308 wind drift, and they are the cheapest ammo on the shelf. Hornady re-tooling their ammo, the availability of a premium bullet in the PRIME offering, and the lower cost of both rifle and ammo in the Creedmoor has pretty much sent the .308 to the category of military .30-06, .30-40 Krag, and .45-70 rounds. They had their time, and that is now past. Unless a political shift intervenes or the purchasing power of the American shooter declines, the market will respond well, and the popularity and diversity of Creedmoor offerings will only increase. |
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it will 
just wanted to add a bolt gun before the kiddo arrives  Quoted:
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Not that I would ever pass up an opportunity to buy a new rifle, but why do you think your Grendel won't run at 750-1000 yds? it will
just wanted to add a bolt gun before the kiddo arrives Wonder if that will fly with my wife  
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Wonder if that will fly with my wife Quoted:
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Not that I would ever pass up an opportunity to buy a new rifle, but why do you think your Grendel won't run at 750-1000 yds? it will
just wanted to add a bolt gun before the kiddo arrives Wonder if that will fly with my wife I didn't ask....and gave her the green light to go to Target for more pre baby purchases. she knew something was up but didn't ask
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