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Posted: 3/11/2021 7:24:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Thought I would try it as a lark. I took two guns - a Tactical Innovations 10/22 and a CZ 457 Varmint in an Oryx chassis.
Scored 7 and 8, respectively, at 50 yards.  I learned a lot about what I did wrong. Guns - make sure they are boresighted, tuned, and all screws are tight. Weather - don't try with gusty crosswinds and cold temperatures Ammo - use quality match ammo. Federal Auto Match is good, but not good enough. Rests - use a good quality rear bag to stabilize the setup. My set kept slipping. Eyeballs - shooting with progressive bifocals is a PITA. Can't get your head position comfortable while looking through the appropriate zone. If I can eliminate all of these issues, I should be able to score a 15 or better. I have a feeling that "improving the build" much beyond that will require replacing the operator... 
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Posted: 3/17/2021 10:20:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: badredfish]
[#2]
Just a bump - thought it was a month since the last post.....
Red |
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Posted: 3/17/2021 11:32:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RichinCM: Thought I would try it as a lark. I took two guns - a Tactical Innovations 10/22 and a CZ 457 Varmint in an Oryx chassis. Scored 7 and 8, respectively, at 50 yards. I learned a lot about what I did wrong. Guns - make sure they are boresighted, tuned, and all screws are tight. Weather - don't try with gusty crosswinds and cold temperatures Ammo - use quality match ammo. Federal Auto Match is good, but not good enough. Rests - use a good quality rear bag to stabilize the setup. My set kept slipping. Eyeballs - shooting with progressive bifocals is a PITA. Can't get your head position comfortable while looking through the appropriate zone. If I can eliminate all of these issues, I should be able to score a 15 or better. I have a feeling that "improving the build" much beyond that will require replacing the operator... I would suggest starting out at 25 yards, just make sure you are using the 25 yard target. Not a good confidence builder to try this on a windy day. I tried progressive lenses once and hated them. I'll stick with my bifocals. The biggest thing that I have found for improving on this (once you have the basics) is to really concentrate on every shot and don't make the shot until your are ready. I can only do about 3 or 4 of these before I can't keep up that level of concentration anymore. |
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Posted: 3/17/2021 1:06:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: badredfish]
[#4]
I will say that practicing with this game has helped me in the deer woods!
Red |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2021 12:55:34 PM EDT
[#5]
I once had a walther KKMS and in the summer we would put white poster board at 50 yards and shake up a Coke and spray on the white board and shoot the flies.
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Posted: 8/4/2021 11:31:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Tag. Just got a t bolt. It’s the only thing I can afford to shoot
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Posted: 8/29/2021 5:11:51 PM EDT
[#7]
bump to avoid archichives....
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Posted: 9/9/2021 1:52:39 PM EDT
[#8]
bump
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2021 12:38:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#9]
nm.
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Posted: 9/14/2021 5:29:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I'm taking some 25 yard targets to the range this weekend. I have an old Remington 37 paired with an old Lyman Super Target Spot. Both are older than I am. I'll shoot some of the older Remington ammo I got from the CMP, some Wolf Match Extra and maybe something else (if I'm not fatigued). Are bipods and rear bags acceptable, or cheating? Bipod and squeeze bag is what I have been using. No restrictions as far as I know. |
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Posted: 9/15/2021 1:21:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TN-MadDog: Bipod and squeeze bag is what I have been using. No restrictions as far as I know. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TN-MadDog: Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I'm taking some 25 yard targets to the range this weekend. I have an old Remington 37 paired with an old Lyman Super Target Spot. Both are older than I am. I'll shoot some of the older Remington ammo I got from the CMP, some Wolf Match Extra and maybe something else (if I'm not fatigued). Are bipods and rear bags acceptable, or cheating? Bipod and squeeze bag is what I have been using. No restrictions as far as I know. Almost that time of the year again …  |
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Posted: 9/15/2021 6:08:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currently: Almost that time of the year again … Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Currently: Originally Posted By TN-MadDog: Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I'm taking some 25 yard targets to the range this weekend. I have an old Remington 37 paired with an old Lyman Super Target Spot. Both are older than I am. I'll shoot some of the older Remington ammo I got from the CMP, some Wolf Match Extra and maybe something else (if I'm not fatigued). Are bipods and rear bags acceptable, or cheating? Bipod and squeeze bag is what I have been using. No restrictions as far as I know. Almost that time of the year again … Yep, looking forward to nice cool day at the range. Give me shout if there is a day you want to go. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/15/2021 11:16:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#13]
nm.
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USA
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Posted: 9/18/2021 5:09:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#14]
nm.
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USA
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Posted: 9/18/2021 6:53:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#15]
nm.
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Posted: 9/18/2021 8:38:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By Trollslayer: So, that WAS fun and was easier than I expected considering the target size. Conditions were mostly calm with a very gentle breeze right to left. I forgot my bipod, so I had to use an improvised rest. I got 21 of 25 at 25 yards using Wolf Match Extra ammo. The limitation was me. It felt too easy and I started shooting sloppily and too quickly resulting in a few misses. ADDITIONAL TESTING I compared group sizes from Wolf Match Extra to those of the Remington ammo I bought from the CMP. The Wolf is better ammo by what I think amounts to a wide margin. Wolf groups were round and the group sizes were limited by me (every shot was on call). Remington groups were vertically strung. Group width was the same as the Wolf ME but there was distinct vertical stringing at 25 yards. The Remington ammo is supposedly standard velocity but it had a louder report and a sharper recoil. The results from two different match rifles were comparable. This was not a rigorous test and not my best shooting but the shooting was done well enough, and used enough rounds, to detect the differences. I think the Remington ammo is going to be pistol ammo. I'll save the Wolf ME for the rifles. Originally Posted By Trollslayer: One thing I looked up - paper expands/contracts from 1% to 3% in size as the humidity changes. That's as much as 0.008" in diameter expansion/shrinkage on a 25 yard, 1 MOA target. That's a 4% effect on probability of hit/miss. In 25 shots, that means 1 will hit or miss due to the change in size of the paper. Just something I was thinking about. Still, I had fun and I have 5 more targets left over (I printed six).  Are you going to share the targets? What rifle are you shooting? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/18/2021 10:15:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#17]
nm.
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USA
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Posted: 9/19/2021 11:33:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#18]
nm.
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Posted: 9/20/2021 10:08:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Added photos above to the original posts. Very nice, thanks for sharing! |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2021 1:14:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#20]
nm.
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Posted: 9/21/2021 8:04:18 AM EDT
[#21]
I think a good bipod and rear bag will help.
A good trigger makes a big difference for me. These targets don't allow much room for error and for me it takes a lot of concentration. Have to get settled in, take my time, and really work on trigger control. |
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Posted: 9/21/2021 10:06:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TN-MadDog: I think a good bipod and rear bag will help. A good trigger makes a big difference for me. These targets don't allow much room for error and for me it takes a lot of concentration. Have to get settled in, take my time, and really work on trigger control. Bipod and a rear bag will help for sure, I shot a 22 bench rest match last weekend and while I didn't place last I was far from the top. I had a bipod, but no rear back and my trigger was mush bad. Plus with only 9X magnification versus their 24X my view was nowhere as clear as theirs. I felt I did good for what I had but know what to improve on, which means a new rifle that's magazine fed and a better scope/trigger. Whew! |
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USA
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Posted: 10/1/2021 10:53:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#23]
nm.
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Posted: 10/2/2021 2:33:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: What level of scrutiny/verification is required before someone (like me) can post a claim as having fired a "clean" (25 of 25 hits, albeit at just 25 yards)? pics of the target, rifle and range will suffice same thing that you would want to see if someone else was making that claim |
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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2021 4:05:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#25]
nm.
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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2021 5:05:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Request for access to target files sent, look forward to trying this!
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Posted: 10/2/2021 5:39:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sebspeed: Request for access to target files sent, look forward to trying this! Google changed the access rules recently. I clicked the given “send files” link. I hope you get them. In the meantime I’ll search for another, easier way to share the files. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2021 6:43:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#28]
nm.
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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2021 7:06:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#29]
nm.
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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2021 8:22:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sebspeed]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RV8guy: Google changed the access rules recently. I clicked the given “send files” link. I hope you get them. In the meantime I’ll search for another, easier way to share the files. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RV8guy: Originally Posted By Sebspeed: Request for access to target files sent, look forward to trying this! Google changed the access rules recently. I clicked the given “send files” link. I hope you get them. In the meantime I’ll search for another, easier way to share the files. I got the access and printed 10 of each, thank you! |
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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2021 9:53:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#31]
nm.
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Posted: 10/3/2021 1:33:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TN-MadDog]
[#32]
….
When I print the 25 yard targets, the center measures .225 Not sure which is correct @RV8guy , do you know the correct diameter for the 25 yard inner circle? Also my 50 yard inner circle is .35 and my 100 yard inner circle is .8 Have I been making this even more difficult than it is supposed to be? |
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USA
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Posted: 10/3/2021 2:24:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#33]
Darn!, I'll just have to shoot it again.
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USA
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Posted: 10/3/2021 2:33:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#34]
nm.
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USA
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Posted: 10/3/2021 8:18:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DOG556]
[#35]
Anywhere to buy these targets on heavy paper stock?
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Posted: 10/3/2021 9:05:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: After re-reading all that jazz on page 1, I found this: "If you printed the target correctly the "Tacks" should be .375" for 25 yrd tack, .5" for 50 yrd tack, and 1" 100 yrd tack outside diameter. " My black outer rings are apparently too thick. Unfortunately, OP does not list the inner diameter, the scoring diameter, the important part. OP's use of a google drive to distribute the targets means I have no access to them. Does anyone have an original? If so, please, post the target or its dimensions. PM me an email address and I'll send them to you. I contacted a computer guru. He was going to recommend Google Drive  |
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USA
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Posted: 10/3/2021 9:57:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#37]
nm.
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Posted: 10/3/2021 10:13:48 PM EDT
[#38]
If there is some way I can send you the pdf files, I will.
According to my calipers the targets measure 100 yard target 1.00 OD 0.790 ID 50 yard target 0.500 OD 0.335 ID 25 yard target 0.375 OD 0.200 ID Sometimes with the 100 yard targets I’ll put 1 inch Shoot-N-See dots on them. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/4/2021 2:04:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#39]
I made new targets today, ones with the dimensions listed above.
In doing so, I was reviewing the level of accuracy required for each. I was surprised that accuracy tightens as the distance increases. 25 yd - 1.6 MOA 50 yd - 1.1 MOA 100 yd - 1.0 MOA The other interesting thing is that the white dot at 25 yards is smaller in diameter than the bullet. It will be interesting to see how I score on the proper target. :-) |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 12:48:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TN-MadDog: . When I print the 25 yard targets, the center measures .225 Not sure which is correct @RV8guy , do you know the correct diameter for the 25 yard inner circle? Also my 50 yard inner circle is .35 and my 100 yard inner circle is .8 Have I been making this even more difficult than it is supposed to be? I printed one and it measured 0.2206". You need to select the custom 100% scaling option when you print. Not "fit to page". 
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USA
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Posted: 10/23/2021 1:01:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bloencustoms: I printed one and it measured 0.2206". You need to select the custom 100% scaling option when you print. Not "fit to page". That is very different than what the OP posted (0.20"). Not knowing the "proper" dimensions, I made mine 1 MOA (0.262"). This is fun to do, no matter the target. Still, we should have everyone using the same target size(s). |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 3:16:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: That is very different than what the OP posted (0.20"). Not knowing the "proper" dimensions, I made mine 1 MOA (0.262"). This is fun to do, no matter the target. Still, we should have everyone using the same target size(s). I tried again and got .220  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 7:06:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jambalaya]
[#43]
Okay, here's my humble submission. I shot 2 tack driver targets. The first had 6 or 7 misses. The second 2 or 3. You be the judge.
This was 25 yards with a Savage MkII FVSR in an MDT chassis with a cheap Center Point 4-16X scope, knockoff Harris bipod from a bench with a rear bag. I did have a can of Coke Zero 1/2 hour before heading to the range and got to watch the reticle wobble with every heartbeat. I also shot a few 5 shot groups and got one sub MOA.  Attached FileMy target was on the little cardboard box on the ground. The 25 yard bench is missing a seat so I brought a tape measure and used the 50 yard bench and set the box at 75 feet. I was lucky it was dead calm with no breeze at all. I marked the one questionable hit with a question mark.  Attached FileShot with ammo in it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 7:46:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bloencustoms: Okay, here's my humble submission. I shot 2 tack driver targets. The first had 6 or 7 misses. The second 2 or 3. You be the judge. This was 25 yards with a Savage MkII FVSR in an MDT chassis with a cheap Center Point 4-16X scope, knockoff Harris bipod from a bench with a rear bag. I did have a can of Coke Zero 1/2 hour before heading to the range and got to watch the reticle wobble with every heartbeat. I also shot a few 5 shot groups and got one sub MOA. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/80518/20211023_165342_jpg-2141095.JPG My target was on the little cardboard box on the ground. The 25 yard bench is missing a seat so I brought a tape measure and used the 50 yard bench and set the box at 75 feet. I was lucky it was dead calm with no breeze at all. I marked the one questionable hit with a question mark. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/80518/20211023_161737_jpg-2141096.JPG Shot with ammo in it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/80518/20211023_172503_jpg-2141136.JPG Good shooting and nice looking rifle |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 10:46:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TN-MadDog: Good shooting and nice looking rifle Thanks! I knew this rifle was a good shooter before I put it in this chassis. The factory plastic stock leaves much to be desired. I had it in a Boyd's stock but never got it bedded and the accuracy wasn't very good. Just got this chassis the other day and it's awesome. Torqued the action screws to 30 inch pounds and I am happy with it. I still want to try Federal Champion and see how it shoots but the SK rifle match is really good in this gun. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/24/2021 1:32:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#46]
I like the chassis, too.
The 100 yard target is going to be challenging (humbling). It is 1.0 MOA - the smallest and the farthest. Anything other than no wind conditions will make it very difficult. In this game, are we allowed to use wind flags or "tell tales" (typically strings or tapes) to monitor the wind? I made some properly-sized targets but last time I went to the range the wind was ridiculous - blustery, 0-15 mph and more away from the firing line overhang. I could barely keep the target stand upright. |
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Posted: 10/24/2021 3:51:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I like the chassis, too. The 100 yard target is going to be challenging (humbling). It is 1.0 MOA - the smallest and the farthest. Anything other than no wind conditions will make it very difficult. In this game, are we allowed to use wind flags or "tell tales" (typically strings or tapes) to monitor the wind? I made some properly-sized targets but last time I went to the range the wind was ridiculous - blustery, 0-15 mph and more away from the firing line overhang. I could barely keep the target stand upright. I have the same problems with wind at my local range. Yesterday was a fluke. Usually it's pretty gusty and even 50 yards is challenging. I shot the target I posted yesterday in calm conditions in about 10 minutes. A few years ago I was out there on a typical day and trying to time my shots to lulls in the gusts, it took me probably 3 or 4 minutes per shot. And it's never a constant breeze, always variable gusts and hard to read. There are some fantastic long range shooters in my state and I don't know how they do it. After seeing how this rifle shot yesterday, I want to shoot the 50 yard "MOA All Day" challenge with it, but that's going to be tough. I have two bulls I shot yesterday with 5 shots each that averaged 0.87 moa at 25 yards but I am sure those will open up more at 50 yards, and .87 MOA is already not leaving a lot of wiggle room to spare. Throw in some wind and the scope magnification effectively halved by doubling the range, and it might not make the cut. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/24/2021 4:04:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Maybe, just maybe, the wind IS the game.
So, what do you think, are wind flags and tell tales acceptable? I have a length of thin plastic surveyors tape in my bag and I have some yarn, too. Hanging those along the way and from the target stand might/might not be fair. If shooting was easy, it wouldn't nearly as much fun. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/24/2021 4:37:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sebspeed]
[#49]
I have been wanting to shoot this for some time now, but I think it will be next year before I get to it. Windy season is upon us here and shooting 22 for accuracy becomes a bit pointless.
I am typing this from my truck seat in my driveway, just back from shooting 200yds with my 10/22 and 455. I got a few lulls where I could clear the 200yd rack with ease (14"/12"/10"/8"/4") with the 1022. For many of the other 200rds I shot, I had to hold as much as 7" for the wind - when I was lucky enough to read it correctly. CCI Blazer drops 42" from my 50yd zero. I hold 2" under the 20moa mark of my reticle to get hits with no wind. At some points, I was holding more than the width of the 4" target to the right in order to hit the left side of it. Definitely not conducive to shooting paper... still a fun time though |
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Posted: 10/24/2021 5:04:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Maybe, just maybe, the wind IS the game. So, what do you think, are wind flags and tell tales acceptable? I have a length of thin plastic surveyors tape in my bag and I have some yarn, too. Hanging those along the way and from the target stand might/might not be fair. If shooting was easy, it wouldn't nearly as much fun. I don't see anything in the rules about wind flags. I'm not the rule maker but I personally would not DQ anyone for using them. Funny thing, even on what I considered to be a "calm" day at my range, I still had to hold down one of the (non tack driver) targets I used to sight in with the tape measure. You can see it on the bench in the pics. It was going to blow off the bench if I didn't. But it was calm enough I didn't actually feel the wind blowing on me and didn't make any attempts to compensate for it because it was only 25 yards. And I just didn't feel like I needed to. |
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