Posted: 12/3/2014 10:10:07 PM EDT
| I've always used gg&g bipods and not had a problem loading the bipod. My newest rifle has a harris bipod on it. The feet on it want to turn and roll away from me when I try to load it. What is the trick? I've considered gluing the feet so they can't turn. If I don't load it then of course it hops and moves me off target for follow up shots. |
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Best advice that I ever got from someone with their name in multiple record books,
"it is not about the amount of pressure/resistance that you can load into the bipod, it is about how consistently you can do it every time". Having focused on that, I can tell you that it will make an improvement in your shooting if you can get a consistent load on the bipod. For me the hurdle to get over was going from a surface/setup where I could really load everything up hard & tight, to a surface/setup where I could barely put any kind of load into it without it wanting to slide/roll forward. Obvious answer was to go with a consistent light load for everything, but I really didn't like the results, especially when it came to trying to control a light, short, recoiling rifle so that I could spot my own shots or make quick follow up shots. Plan B, figure out how to get that hard & tight load on the bipod all of the time? Answers, - Use a shooting mat that has loops or webbing on it to hold the bipod legs. http://ustacticalsupply.com/thefullspectrumsolutionsshootingmat.aspx http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?122215-Bipod-loading-amp-DIY-shooting-mats There are a lot of options, just come up with something that will allow you to use the mat to stop/trap the bipod. - Use a sling that attaches to the bipod, and then attaches to me (around the body, or to the belt). http://www.laruetactical.com/images/SlingFlyer.pdf You can also make your own up. - Put spikes or claws on the bipod to get it to dig in. https://www.triadtactical.com/Phoenix-Tactica-Pod-Claw-Kit.html There are a number of options for both Harris and Atlas. For the record, there are those that will also say that you don't need any of that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjG1JZxiui0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqFH0A7Py1Q They will simply tell you to use proper form & technique, and you really do not need any substantial load on the bipod. IMHO all options are correct, and ultimately have Pros & Cons, the key is to figure out whatever is going to work best for your given situation. Best of Luck, M Richardson |
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captrichardson, thanks for all of the good info and advice. I have seen the SH videos and cannot duplicate the stability achieved. I prefer "field expedient" setups, so the shooting mats with bipod slings are not what I am looking for. I like to shoot off the top of my range bag if I don't have a bipod. But with a bipod, I'd like to go without other supports.
I use Harris bipods and they don't flex forward like the Atlas in the video does. The only way the Harris will load is if it is on dirt/field or on my shooting mat (old Army wool blanket) where they can catch on something. Where I really lose it is on controlling the torqueing motion the bullet generates on the barrel grooves. I get a twist and a hop, but the twist is worse. I may be creating a pivot or fulcrum at my shoulder relative to the recoil motion and so I have been experimenting with my body alignment behind the rifle to see if I can mitigate the jumps and twists. I can shoot good groups (sub MOA at 100 yards), but can't see the result on the target until I pull my rifle back to view it. I hover around 9-10-X at 600 yards. |
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Quoted:
captrichardson, thanks for all of the good info and advice. I have seen the SH videos and cannot duplicate the stability achieved. I prefer "field expedient" setups, so the shooting mats with bipod slings are not what I am looking for. I like to shoot off the top of my range bag if I don't have a bipod. But with a bipod, I'd like to go without other supports. I use Harris bipods and they don't flex forward like the Atlas in the video does. The only way the Harris will load is if it is on dirt/field or on my shooting mat (old Army wool blanket) where they can catch on something. Where I really lose it is on controlling the torqueing motion the bullet generates on the barrel grooves. I get a twist and a hop, but the twist is worse. I may be creating a pivot or fulcrum at my shoulder relative to the recoil motion and so I have been experimenting with my body alignment behind the rifle to see if I can mitigate the jumps and twists. I can shoot good groups (sub MOA at 100 yards), but can't see the result on the target until I pull my rifle back to view it. I hover around 9-10-X at 600 yards. I'm definitely a n00b, but from watching a bunch of videos and reading what I can, it sounds like you're not building a good shooting position. If the stock is sitting on your shoulder correctly and you're behind the rifle correctly, your natural point of aim should keep you on target after the shot breaks. I had the issue you had, but took care of it by focusing on my body position and technique. |
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Quoted:
I'm definitely a n00b, but from watching a bunch of videos and reading what I can, it sounds like you're not building a good shooting position. If the stock is sitting on your shoulder correctly and you're behind the rifle correctly, your natural point of aim should keep you on target after the shot breaks. I had the issue you had, but took care of it by focusing on my body position and technique. I took a 2-day long range shooting course a couple of years ago and really worked on my setup for the shot. I went from sloppy to rock-solid stable, and was dinging steel at 1055 yards reliably. So, from a static position, I am solid at the moment of pulling the trigger. There must be another component of my setup that could be better, such as body position. I'm looking forward to Spring when I'll get more opportunities to practice at the range. I've begun to read more about it. |
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Things to consider when trying to manage your rifle under recoil:
- Body Position: everything needs to be in proper alignment, and that is in all planes in all directions. While most shooters focus on getting straight behind the rifle, it is just important how the rifle is aligned in all of the other planes. Many shooters will have their body very low to the ground, while the rifle is actually sitting much higher, especially on the front end. The rifle needs to be as parallel to the ground and the shooter's body as possible. If the muzzle is pointed upward and is higher, it is much more likely that it will want to rise upward under recoil. - Recoil Motion: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". If the rifle has a fair amount of recoil force, then it must be allowed or directed to go somewhere, those forces simply can not be stopped. Some shooters will try to stop all reward motion of the rifle, which results in the recoil forces being generated going somewhere else. This can result in the rifle wanting to rise, hop, or twist. The analogy for a proper setup/grip on the rifle is that it must be like a handshake,"not to firm or not to soft". The rifle must be allowed to travel rearward in a controlled/desired manner, while being maintained so that it stays on target. - Recoil Forces: not all rifles and rounds are obviously created equal. What works for a 15 pound rifle, will not necessarily work for a 7 pound rifle. What works for .260 or .308, may not work for a 30-06 or .300 WM. Techniques for managing recoil on a .308 rifle that weighs 15 pounds and has a Brake, is not going to be the same as trying to manage recoil on a 7-8 pound rifle with no muzzle device. You need to make sure that your technique matches your given shooting setup. If you follow competitive shooters who make the winners platform and have their names in the record books, you will note that not all of them utilize the same setups and techniques. They have to take into account: - Application: how are they shooting, what exact positions will they have to shoot from? What limits/constraints are they shooting under? - Support Equipment: what items and setups are they using (or are forced to use), how does that impact technique? - Rifle & Round: what is the level of recoil generated, what is the proper technique to manage it? - Personal Preference: what works best for their given physical build, skill-set, etc? As much as some people don't want to admit it, there is more than one technique that can be used, and not all shooting situations and setups will work well with any one given technique. If it produces consistent positive results, then use it. If not, then figure out why not, and do whatever makes the most sense to fix it. Best of Luck, M Richardson |
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Quoted:
Things to consider when trying to manage your rifle under recoil: - Body For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". If the rifle has a fair amount of recoil force, then it must be allowed or directed to go somewhere, those forces simply can not be stopped. Some shooters will try to stop all reward motion of the rifle, which results in the recoil forces being generated going somewhere else. This can result in the rifle wanting to rise, hop, or twist. The analogy for a proper setup/grip on the rifle is that it must be like a handshake,"not to firm or not to soft". The rifle must be allowed to travel rearward in a controlled/desired manner, while being maintained so that it stays on target. - Recoil Forces: not all rifles and rounds are obviously created equal. What works for a 15 pound rifle, will not necessarily work for a 7 pound rifle. What works for .260 or .308, may not work for a 30-06 or .300 WM. Techniques for managing recoil on a .308 rifle that weighs 15 pounds and has a Brake, is not going to be the same as trying to manage recoil on a 7-8 pound rifle with no muzzle device. You need to make sure that your technique matches your given shooting setup. If you follow competitive shooters who make the winners platform and have their names in the record books, you will note that not all of them utilize the same setups and techniques. They have to take into account: - Application: how are they shooting, what exact positions will they have to shoot from? What limits/constraints are they shooting under? - Support Equipment: what items and setups are they using (or are forced to use), how does that impact technique? - Rifle & Round: what is the level of recoil generated, what is the proper technique to manage it? - Personal Preference: what works best for their given physical build, skill-set, etc? As much as some people don't want to admit it, there is more than one technique that can be used, and not all shooting situations and setups will work well with any one given technique. If it produces consistent positive results, then use it. If not, then figure out why not, and do whatever makes the most sense to fix it. Best of Luck, M Richardson I started learning long range shooting with an ar15. I found it only takes a small amount of load on the bipod and I can hold the trigger to the rear and watch the bullet hit the target, reset the trigger, breath out and my natural point of aim will still be perfect for a follow up shot. I also found through trial and error that too much load on that gun effects group size and even point of impact slightly. I assume because the bipod is mounted on a free float quad rail that uses the standard barrel nut and enough pressure can flex it a bit. With the 260 and harris bipod I'm having trouble getting any load on it without it rolling away from me. When I fire the shot I get a little bit of hop and it moves me slightly off target to the right. I'm straight behind the rifle, with my feet spread out wide and laying flat. I'm left handed if that makes any difference in diagnosing what I'm doing wrong. My 260 is a heavy gun with a 26" barrel. I would like to correct this with technique alone, but also may try a sling. I learned how to use a sling when shooting prone in a basic carbine class a couple years ago, but that was prone with magazine support and not with a bipod. Do you happen to have a link to a description on how to use a sling correctly with a bipod in the prone position? |
| I had an extra GG&G bipod laying around like the one I have on my ar15 so I put it on my 260. It is slightly higher than the harris at its lowest position and can be at any height instead of only low or high like the harris. I've found through dry firing with it that it puts me in better position and I'm able to load it. Of course this is only dry firing and I will have to test at the range, but it feels like I'm in better position instead of being to low like the harris put me. |
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Sorry, but trying to diagnose and fix problems like this over the Internet is about impossible!
Consider, - Bipod Pressure/Movement: with some Bipods, as you push forward or pull backward on the rifle, they can "rock" which will slightly alter the height of the front end of the rifle. This can be more pronounced if there is a lot of movement/give in the bipod, be it where it mounts to the rifle, or within the various parts of the bipod that allow adjustment. With a design like the Atlas, where it can pivot forward and backward on the ball mount head, this situation can be very easily seen. At the most forward and rearward positions, it is lower, and at the center position it is at the highest. If you are aware of this, you can manage it, if not it can cause vertical in your shooting. - Shoulder Pressure: this is something that can easily change the position of the rifle and the shot. Whatever technique you are using to load the Bipod, you have to make sure that the shoulder pressure is very consistent. Changing the pressure can easily cause the rifle and shot to go high or low. I will try to get some pics of using a sling with a prone bipod supported position. The LaRue Optimized Sniper Sling will give you some ideas: http://www.laruetactical.com/images/SlingFlyer.pdf http://vimeo.com/54649533 The only thing that I will do different, is that I will take a quick link and attach the loop of the sling to my riggers belt loop and load the tension against it, versus wrapping the sling loop around my body. It is easy to make your own setup, put some paracord on your bipod legs to create an attachment point, get a piece of webbing with a link/connector on each end, and make sure that you can adjust the tension with some type of adjustable buckle. Thanks, M Richardson |
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I was able to test this morning with the GG&G bipod. I was only at 100 yards, but I was able to watch the bullet hit the target. Recoil is now directly to the rear without me losing my natural point of aim. No more bipod hop. I think it is mostly due to being able to achieve the proper height of the bipod for me as well as improved feet that don't turn. The harris was either 6" which was to low for me or 9" which was to high. The GG&G isn't limited to being all the way down or all the way up. I was only putting a small amount of load on it, but that is all it took.
edit to add: Here is a link to the bipod I'm using on both my ar15 (spr ish) rifle and my 260 bolt action rifle GG&G extreme duty tactical bipod at SWFA |
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Quoted:
Lefty, are you attributing your success mostly to the GG&G bipod, or did you apply a technique that made most of the difference? I attribute it to getting the correct height on the bipod and a little bit because the feet on the GG&G give a better grip. With the harris it was so low I was kind of tucking the stock under me to some extent so when it would recoil the front of the gun would come up. With the GG&G it's a little higher, but not as high as the harris in the extended position. With this height of bipod I'm able to put the stock into my shoulder correctly so the recoil comes straight back into my shoulder. Some of it I also attribute to it now being consistent with my precision gas gun being the same height so I have consistency. I did have to readjust the stock for length of pull a bit as well because of the new shooting position. It comes down to getting the gun to fit you instead of making myself fit the gun. eta: captrichardson addresses the issue a bit in his post talking about body position. It's all about getting the recoil to come straight back instead of the front of the gun jumping up. |