Posted: 4/15/2014 11:46:52 AM EDT
| I have shot 2 local 3G matches in Raton uner the Johnson 3 Gun club. Boy was was in for a shock. My 55 gr loads were bad at the long distance and if i did hit the swingers they would not move the them to get called hits.. I have some hornday 55 gr bullets on hand but want to know what velocity I should be expecting out of my 16 in barrel. I cannot find any quality info on the net as most data is using 24 in barrel and I know I will loose a fair amount of velocity. I am going to be using either IMR 4064 (as I have a lot of it on hand) or a single pound of 4007SSC. What I really want to know is what the the optimal veloctiy for this bullet weight out of my shorter barrel? |
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I'm no expert, but I would say the optimum velocity with any bullet is somewhat dependent on your barrel.
For distant targets fighting a bit of wind, I use 77 gr Nosler Competition Custom bullets. I'm getting real good groups with a newer 18" (BHW 1:8 twist) barrel at +/- 2605 fps. I've run these down to 2525 fps up to 2750 fps and 2605 fps is my magic number. For an older not chrome lined steel barrel (CMMG 1:9 twist), the higher velocity seems to give a little better groups but, should I decide to continue using this barrel, additional work with the chrono and targets will be necessary. Load some up and hit the range . FYI, I'm currently using AA 2230 powder. I've set a pound of it aside for match use only. Once its gone, I may need to start over again with whatever powder is available. Bill |
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It will be difficult to get acceptable velocity out of a 16 inch barrel.
There is a big downside to the 75s, because they are slower, their trajectory is much less flat than lighter bullets. If your barrel is a 1-8 or 1-7 twist, they will probably stabilize for you. If it is a 1-9, they almost certainly will not especially out of a 16 inch tube. I have been experimenting with them but I think I have bought my last of them. They shoot great groups but I have had to adjust my zero too much to get them to line up with my reticle at 4-5-600 yards, and I am shooting way too high for my taste at 250. I was hunting accuracy, not energy, and I finally found it with the 50gr Vmax. Matches the reticle of my scope perfectly too. I would recommend you try 69 gr sierras or 68 gr hornadys before jumping to 75s. |
| The reason I want to use 77 is due to the 55 not having enough power to move the swingers at distance. I have had sever targets get his but since they did not move, the RO would not call it a hit. I have a 1:8 twist so I am pretty sure they shoudl stabilize but am really looking for something to move these swingers. At 200 its easy to call and hear the hit, but at 400 its hard to hear and see. Thanks for the input. |
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I get about 2600fps out of my Daniel Defense 16" barrel with a 1/7 twist. That's a 75gr Prvi Partisan BTHP Match bullet.
They work great, shoot about .690 MoA at 200 yard zero. That's 23 grs of H335. The best solution I have found is to zero your weapon with the 75gr ammo and let the 55gr close range rounds hit where they will. They are a faster and hit a hair higher, but I shoot the 75gr rounds at all targets beyond 200 yards (100 yards if its windy), and use the heavier bullet for spinners. The PoI difference between the two bullet weights has never effected me for anything inside of 200 yards. |
| Just thought I would give everyone an update. I loaded up some test ammo of Nosler 77 gr on top of IMR 4064. My 16" barrel could get 2500 fps while using 23.2 gr of 4064. Accuracy was better than I expected since it was close to the max load. Hope this can help others going forward! |
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Some of my velocity data out of my 16" 1/7 Chrome DPMS. About 2600 ft/sec + out of a 16" barrel. I started using it for the same reasons. Hit the targets harder at 500 yards. Seemed to be a little more accurate than the 55's too.
Edited to add Chrony F1 at 10' from muzzle. 
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Yes, that is velocity with my chrono. It is a 18" 8 twist barrel. Varget powder. Quoted:
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I'm pushing Hornady 75gr HPBT match bullets at 2900 fps muzzle. How? Is this over a chrono? Yes, that is velocity with my chrono. It is a 18" 8 twist barrel. Varget powder. How much powder? Pressure signs? I'm running 69 smk's slightly faster than that from a 24'' bolt gun with 25.5 grains of varget, and that is a compressed charge. |
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How much powder? Pressure signs? I'm running 69 smk's slightly faster than that from a 24'' bolt gun with 25.5 grains of varget, and that is a compressed charge. Quoted:
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I'm pushing Hornady 75gr HPBT match bullets at 2900 fps muzzle. How? Is this over a chrono? Yes, that is velocity with my chrono. It is a 18" 8 twist barrel. Varget powder. How much powder? Pressure signs? I'm running 69 smk's slightly faster than that from a 24'' bolt gun with 25.5 grains of varget, and that is a compressed charge. Commercial Winchester brass, 25.0 gr Varget, compressed charge. OAL 2.250", CCI 400 primers, heavy crimp with Lee factory crimp die. Primers flatten a bit, bit no cratered firing pin marks. |
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Commercial Winchester brass, 25.0 gr Varget, compressed charge. OAL 2.250", CCI 400 primers, heavy crimp with Lee factory crimp die. Primers flatten a bit, bit no cratered firing pin marks. Quoted:
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I'm pushing Hornady 75gr HPBT match bullets at 2900 fps muzzle. How? Is this over a chrono? Yes, that is velocity with my chrono. It is a 18" 8 twist barrel. Varget powder. How much powder? Pressure signs? I'm running 69 smk's slightly faster than that from a 24'' bolt gun with 25.5 grains of varget, and that is a compressed charge. Commercial Winchester brass, 25.0 gr Varget, compressed charge. OAL 2.250", CCI 400 primers, heavy crimp with Lee factory crimp die. Primers flatten a bit, bit no cratered firing pin marks. Wow! Might have to load some up and try them. I would have expected over pressure. |
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Wow! Might have to load some up and try them. I would have expected over pressure. Quoted:
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Commercial Winchester brass, 25.0 gr Varget, compressed charge. OAL 2.250", CCI 400 primers, heavy crimp with Lee factory crimp die. Primers flatten a bit, bit no cratered firing pin marks. Wow! Might have to load some up and try them. I would have expected over pressure. Please start with a lower charge and work up in your gun. Most of my guns I've shot it in are fine, but one of them does show signs of overpressure. I assume it is because of slight difference in chamber and/or headspace. |
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Please start with a lower charge and work up in your gun. Most of my guns I've shot it in are fine, but one of them does show signs of overpressure. I assume it is because of slight difference in chamber and/or headspace. Quoted:
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Commercial Winchester brass, 25.0 gr Varget, compressed charge. OAL 2.250", CCI 400 primers, heavy crimp with Lee factory crimp die. Primers flatten a bit, bit no cratered firing pin marks. Wow! Might have to load some up and try them. I would have expected over pressure. Please start with a lower charge and work up in your gun. Most of my guns I've shot it in are fine, but one of them does show signs of overpressure. I assume it is because of slight difference in chamber and/or headspace. Most definitely. I'll probably start at 23.5 and work up. |
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If this helps you at all... I chrono'ed a bunch of factory ammo out of both 16" and 20" Ar's
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/654885_UPDATED_Sept__20__FYI____Chronograph_results_with_Factory_ammo____16_Middie_and_20_Rifle.html The GECO 55gr ammo is a inexpensive accurate 55gr. Here is the 55gr section. Brand and headstamp on brass..............................16 " Velocities ( FPS )........20" Velocities ( FPS ).........Comments......,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, NC means NATO CROSS Ratty, Nasty 55gr 1983 Guat... IMG 5.56 83............Av. 3013 , ES 75...............Av. 3182, ES 54.......................... "Don't judge a Ammo Case by its looks"...GTG Lol Fed. AE 223 55gr .....................FC 06......................Av. 2845, ES 25...............Av. 3068, ES 14............................Prefect example of Low ES / SD doesn't mean accurate................................................. Fed. AE 55gr ( Small Letter )....FC 223 REM...........Av. 3115, ES 58...............Av. 3299, ES 64............................The original Infamous crappy Fed. Brass Fed. AE 55gr ( Large Letter )....FC 223 REM...........Av. 3051, ES 54...............Av. 3278, ES 114...........................This is from the same boxes as above BTW... loaded in H22 Thermold that has been unloaded once and then reloaded for over 20 + years ( minus the loaded, unloaded, reload moment ... Lol ) Fed. AE 223J.............................FC 223 REM..........Av. 2889, ES 68................Av. 2982, ES 94..............................Current production Fed. 55gr XM193.......................LC 09 NC................Av. 3115, ES 80...............Av. 3168 , ES 32............................Typical Milspec 2-3 MOA Fed. 55gr M193.........................LC 14 NC................Av. 3088, ES 38................Av. 3220, ES 74............................Supposedly the real thing,not XM, much better than XM accuracy Fed. 55gr XM193F.....................LC 08......................Av. 3071, ES 42................Av. 3214, ES 59...........................White box.... crimped Fed. 55gr XM193AF..................LC 14 NC................Av. 3072, ES 49................Av. 3236, ES 54............................Factory stripper clipped Fed. 55gr XM193.......................LC 08 NC................Av. 3106, ES 27................Av.3232, ES 40.............................'08 Brown Box Fed. 55gr XM193.......................LC 14 NC................Av. ..........................................................................................'14 Current Brown Box Fed. AE 55gr XM193C................LC 08 NC................Av.3092, ES 47.................Av. 3206, ES 64............................Black Box GECO 55gr FMJ...................GECO 223 REM..........Av. 2967 , ES 45...............Av. 3128 , ES 22..........................Quite accurate, and still the "cheap" accuracy king. Horn. Sup. 5.56 55gr GMX..HORNADY 5.56 NATO...Av. 3130, ES 44...............Av. 3201, ES 55..........................EXTREMELY FAST for a solid copper bullet Horn. 55gr 223 SP...............HORNADY 223 REM......Av. 2930, ES 41...............Av. 3115, ES 49..........................."B" accuracy IMI M193..................................TZZ 89........................Av. 2997, ES 74................Av. 3194, ES 24 Independence 55gr (XM193I).. FC 2,1, 13.................Av. 3195, ES 50.................Av. 3343, ES 94..........................Same type of headstamp as IMI 77gr , 4 MOA PMC 55gr Bronze....................PMC 223 REM............Av. 2626 , ES 82...............Av. 2754 , ES 97........................ Just awful accuracy PMC XTAC 55gr......................PSD 14........................Av. 2994, ES 33................Av. 3180, ES 72..........................Clearly crimped and sealed. Outstanding accuracy PPU 55gr.................................PPU 14 5.56X45..........Av. 3061, ES 37................Av. 3240, ES 28...........................Crimped , sealed, PPU Is a excellent value. Rem. 55gr MC..........................R P 223 REM..............Av. 2910, ES 100..............Av. 3059, ES 77.......................... Reasonable value / accuracy for .223 Winc. 55gr Q3131A.................W.C.C 03 .....................Av. 3105, ES 30................Av. 3234, ES 100........................Winchester IMI.. even says "Made In Israel" Winc. 55gr Q3131...................WCC 04 NC..................Av. 3162, ES 98.................Av. 3282, ES 101........................Winc. from '04 Winc. 55gr Q3131...................WCC 12 NC...................Av. 3095, ES 59................Av. 3296, ES 40..........................Current Winc. 55gr Q3131...................WCC 94.........................Av. 3268, ES 80................Av. 3333, ES 50..........................dismal 100yd accuracy... 4-5 MOA Wolf 55gr .223..........................Wolf 223.......................Av. 2830, ES 40................Av. 2954,ES 109..........................Worst accuracy of ALL... truly laughable. |
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70+ gr results... Again this is factory ammo... so maybe you can get an idea of what to expect.
I need to add the Winc. 77gr 5.56 data ... it was promising. Brand and headstamp on brass................................................16 " Velocities ( FPS )........20" Velocities ( FPS ).........Comments......,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, NC means NATO CROSS ASYM 75gr .223...........................LC 14 NC..............................Av. 2605, ES 52.................Av. 2752, ES 40............"A+" Accuracy Hornady. 75gr Match....................HORNADY 223 REM...........Av. 2510 , ES 50................Av. 2640 , ES 60...........Interesting that this is faster both Nosler and Norma as well as more accurate Hornady Super. 223 Match 75....HORNADY 223 REM............Av. 2701 , ES 41................Av. 2790 , ES 54.......... Exact same headstamp as the standard 75gr match good accuracy Hornady Super. 5.56 75... ...........Hornady 5.56 NATO.............Av. 2785 , ES 31...............Av. 2840 , ES 42............Best accuracy in both rifles.... HPR .223 75gr.............................LC 13 NC..............................Av. 2414, ES 87.................Av. 2528, ES 112...........Slow but great accuracy HSM 75gr 5.56 ... .......................HSM 06 NATO 5.56..............Av. 2648 , ES 31.................Av. 2801 , ES 24.......... Excellent accuracy... out to 300 yards.( As far as got ) IMI 77gr OTM.............................IMI 13 variety of 2 digits.........Av. 2726 , ES 39..................Av. 2810 , ES 41........... Not the most accurate, but certainly a good value. Norma TAC 77gr........................norma 223 REM....................Av. 2430 , ES 75...................Av. 2550 , ES 68...........Average 77gr accuracy Nosler CC 77gr...........................NOSLER 223 REM................Av. 2440 , ES 28...................Av. 2569 , ES 36.......... I need more trigger time with this ammo PPU 75gr .223.............................PPU 223 REM......................Av. 2461, ES 69...................Av. 2590, ES 109............Dismal accuracy... as a matter of fact 4MOA at 100yds. SSA 5.56 77gr.............................5.56 SSA..............................Av. 2442, ES 25....................Av. 2567, ES 60............."B+" accuracy |