This. I have shot dozens and dozens with the cheap Remington 55 grain FMJ stuff in the green and white box out of a 16".

Shoot them in or just in front of the shoulder, not just behind the shoulder like a deer, and they will go down.

A 16" 5.56/.223 AR with 30 round mags and a red dot is perfect for hogs within 250-300 yards.

Are there more powerful options for hogs? Yes. Are there any better options for hogs, especially multiples or running targets? No.

I have an AR-10, and have shot several hogs and deer with it. It is not any more effective than the .223, just heavier and less ammo.

That top hog looks like he’s been in a trap before. With the hide rolled back on his snout.

Lol ok buddy.

Quite possible... I know the bottom one had been caught at one time due to ear being cut.

The 55 grain v-max are devastating.

The "insurance" thing is FUDD nonsense. A bad shot with a .223 would be a bad shot with a .308 unless you really stretch the limits of a bad shot. The only reason it would make a difference then is increased penetration. 230gr ammo is ridiculous for hogs. Stick with 150-180gr in a .308.

A bolt action .308 isn't going to be any more effective than a .223 AR with good ammo. The size of the hog doesn't matter. Put the bullet where it needs to go and it'll die. If you aim for the ear and get a bad shot, you might blow the hog's jaw off. That's not a kill shot. If you're taking head shots and want to recover the hog, you need to be capable of making that shot (not a close enough shot). If you want to make an ethical shot, practice and prepare yourself for making that shot. That's the most important thing you can do. Can you spend that amount of time behind a .308?

You can take that "ok buddy" and stick it where the sun don't shine.  Let me guess, you use a 300 Win Mag on whitetail because you can't shoot worth a damn, don't you?

Explain this to me, cowboy... how does a .308 behind the ear make a hog more dead than my .223 in the same place? Right, it doesn't.

Now, explain to me how more recoil and lower mag capacity assists me in getting back on target faster and not having to reload with hogs still within range.

lastly, explain to me how 3 extra pounds of gun, plus a half pound extra per magazine (and remember, I have to carry more magazines) help me when I am out ground pounding these baconators?

I will await your expert analysis on the topic.

As someone who has hunted in the morning with a .308 and then in the afternoon / night with a .223 (or vice-versa), I can tell you that with similar (proper) shot placement that there is no perceived difference in effectiveness within the aforementioned 300 yard window.

^^ • E X T R E M E • O P E R A T O R • ^^

Of course, don't address the issues, just make more noise... you are dismissed.

What I think Remington is saying is more energy makes knockdowns or kills a bit easier when the sounder starts running.  That said, faster and easier follow up can be had with a .223.  It ultimately depends on your comfort with the platform you're using.

Good luck killing them.  They need dying.

You're making the mistake of thinking calibers can be debated but we all know 223/5.56 just doesn't work. If such a puny caliber worked, someone would have made a detailed thread about it documenting its strengths and failures, thus eliminating (if said thread was tacked) these endless debates among amateurs and theorists.

No, I'm saying that was he said is just silly. Look at his words.

This is your opinion, which is fine. For the vast majority of hunters, .223 falls into the category of "gets the job done most of the time," which is a far cry from "absolute best option."

The statement that an AR-10 is not any more effective than a .223 is just wrong.  That's physics, not an opinion (and I don't shoot an AR-10 anyway).  The 308 comes out of the gate with 210% more energy than the .223, and it just gets worse as the distance gap increases. At 300 yards it's a 250% difference in kinetic energy delivered.

You can absolutely get it done with a .223. We've all done it. I've done it with a lot less than a .223.
But suggesting that .223 is the world's best hog hunting caliber and we should all take your word as gospel is laughable.

Does the difference in energy at that scale matter? Does the .308 effectively transfer that energy well enough to make a difference? I don't think so. You might get better performance if you're putting the bullet into the back of the hog's hams and it has to travel the entire length of the body to hit vitals. Maybe, but that's still questionable even on the extreme end of the equation. I've shot, tracked, and processed deer and hogs with .270, 30-06, 7.62x39, .308, 30-30, and .223. I've tracked and processed hogs and deer shot with a bunch of other calibers. The one thing I've noticed is that shot placement rules all and a bad shot is a bad shot is a bad shot. There is no such thing as a better bad shot. A bad shot with a .223 is a almost certainly a bad shot with a .308. The animal doesn't know the difference.

Some rounds do transfer their energy better than others, but that's not the situation with this discussion. Even then, a bad shot with a round that is great at transferring energy is still a bad shot.

I like the  .308 I like the 6.5 Grendel and I use the .223 a lot. But if I track a big hog up I leave all those behind and use the .45/70 guide gun. For one reason it penetrates all the way through from front to back with hard cast bullets. If the .308 makes you feel all warm and fuzzy by all means carry it. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, but after a few hundred dead piggies it gets heavy and the 5.56/.223 starts to become more appealing. I shot one with a Browning BAR chambered in .338WM once just because I had one. To tell you the truth it destroys less meat on a shoulder shot than the .270 or. .243. Shot placement is key! For eradicating who cares if they run off. Dead is dead!

So if you have a 5.56/.223 just get out and shoot one or two or a couple of hundred. Practice from shooting sticks is far more productive than worrying about what caliber to use.

Stuff like the 45/70 is exactly what I mean by excelling at transferring energy. Those big, slow, blunt-nosed bullets are great at transferring energy and you can see it. It’s not going to magically make a bad shot a good shot like some people think, but you can see the effect it has on the animal. It doesn’t make the animal any more dead, but you’re more likely to see one just crunch with a shoulder shot.

On the contrary, I think a badly-placed shot with 2.5X more energy will absolutely make it a "better bad shot."  I think that's exactly what's happening when guys are dropping running pigs with 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 7.62x39, and .308.  I think way more necks get snapped with bigger, faster, all-copper bullets than 5.56 ball that disintegrates on impact and zips straight through a pig instead of anchoring him.

I could be wrong.  The fact that the vast majority of major league hog hunters (not me) don't use .223 is hard to argue with.

Are there better calibers? You bet. But yes, .223 works. As always, shot placement is king.

I've seen 150gr FMJ and all copper .308 bullets zip right through a pig or two without anchoring them. I think people want to push light bullets fast in most calibers. The need for speed thing, but sometimes heavy for caliber bullets specially lead that produce more than one wound channel sometimes just work better. But it has been my experience that New shooters do better with light recoil cartridges. We can set here and argue all day long about what is best but lets face it some shooters just aren't ready for the extra recoil that heavier calibers pack. There's no way I'd want to see some dude show up with a .45\70. Cause more than likely he doesn't get the time to shoot enough to manage the recoil. Now the .223 on the other hand is cheap to practice with low recoil add's up to better maintained sight picture and who care's how many time they have to shoot the pig as long as they hit the pig. My point is if people already have the .223 why not just get out and kill a few pigs with it. To me a few dead and wounded pigs are far better than a pig living waiting on somebody to buy an AR10 in .308 just because someone doesn't think the .223 is adequate. Kid down by the Lake killed a pretty good sized pig last week with a .22Mag while looking for the armadillo that was tearing up his grandparents pasture. Those people didn't even know they had hogs. The boy's grandpa was like if I'd known there was a pig I'd have sent the boy out with the .270. I've got a couple of .308's and they never hardly leave the safe anymore. I use the 6.5 Grendel during the day and the .223 at night with the thermal. P.S. I still kill a lot more hogs with the .22 rimfire than both the Grendel and the .223 cause I get a bunch of hogs in the traps. Plus I don't think I've ever met a Major League Hog Hunter, other than Pigman. And he seemed full of something that grows good vegetables.

I'm going to help you see why you're wrong.

First, how does that 2.5X more energy translate in reference to it's effectiveness on a living animal? Is it 2.5X more effective? What about the bigger bullet with 2.5X more energy that passes through (doesn't deliver all of its energy) compared to a smaller bullet that stops in the animal (delivers 100% of its energy)?

If you follow hunting circles and pay attention, these things go in cycles. Right now in the hog hunting world, we're at the start of a heavy .308 cycle. Before too long, people will start realizing they suck with a .308 too and will move on to something else. A few years ago, the 6.8 was the best thing that ever happened. The vast majority of hunters are ignorant.

The sentence about necks getting snapped is ridiculous. I'm not even sure where to start. First, a neck is going to snap if you shoot it with a .22. It's game over when you hit the spine. Second, the .308 isn't faster than a .223.  Third, how does a bullet disintegrate on impact and zip right through? It can't do both. Pick one.

As for the majority of hog hunters, go back to the above. Most hunters in general are ignorant. They don't take the time to analyze what's happening. They suck, but explain everything away by saying it's the gun's fault, the bullet's fault, etc. If you ask most hog hunters where a hog's vitals are, they don't know. They think the typical behind the shoulder shot like people use on a deer will do it. It won't. That's mostly a gut shot on a hog. As soon as you say "Most hunters", you lose credibility.

I'm not going to respond. You two can have the cake.

I'll say that I run with a group that has likely killed more hogs in the first 7 months of 2018 than most of this subform in a lifetime.  Empiricism trumps spreadsheets.  No one can say "Just because you've killed 900 this year doesn't mean you know anything..."

Here are the facts.  All pigs need to die.  Shot placement is critical to that end.  I prefer lighter and more ammo (.223).  Most of what people are taking out above a .22 work fine.

I've killed most of my hogs with 308 (almost as many as with all other calibers combined).  Mostly because that's what I started out with and used for the longest period of time.  The rest have mostly been shot with 223, 6.8SPC, 300blk, or 7.62x39.

The situations that matter to me:

Long Hunting Shots (250 to 400/500 yds):  I prefer 6.5CM or 308 etc.  No way around the fact these cartridges (which won't fit in an AR magazine) have more energy out far.  Something like a 6.5G could probably do an ok job here too (since you mentioned that one specifically as a potential upgrade to your existing AR).

Quiet and Close (from a deer stand or backyard etc):  Here the 300blk shooting subs is what I would choose.

Most Other General Hunting Situations:  Here I think the 300blk shooting supersonic 110gr Barnes is a good balance of light recoil, good energy on target (20-25% more energy than 223, and with even better bullet expansion diameters), high magazine capacity, and reliable bullet construction.  All with a tolerable (not great, but tolerable) bullet drop out to 250yds or so (beyond that it starts dropping pretty quick and the energy really begins to fall off...interestingly expansion is still pretty good out that far with the barnes 110gr).

So for me, the 300blk fills 2 of those 3 categories all in one rifle.  I can carry supers and subs with me and be covered for most hunts.  When I think longer shots might be a possibility, I try to take a rifle along that uses one of the bigger cartridges.

Since you didn't mention using a suppressor or needing to be quiet, if I was in your boat I would probably just save money and stick with my existing 5.56AR...then use a good 50-62gr hunting load (All copper or bonded bullet, etc) since your rifle has 1/9 twist. It will serve you well in most situations.  Aside from shooting quiet subsonic loads....I would probably have just stuck with 223 myself for all but the longer range situations.  A well made 223 bullet at high velocity is a pretty darn good hog killer.

Go kill some hogs and have fun!  Report back to us too.

Edit: If you don't have a suppressor or need to be as quiet as possible, and don't mind spending the money...a 6.5G in an AR could be a pretty good do-everything hunting rifle for hogs and anything else up to medium sized game at all practical ranges.

Well then get started laughing... More kinetic energy means more recoil to the shooter, and slower follow up shots to eliminate as much of a sounder as possible.  I don't care if a .308 has 2,000% more energy... if it zips through and only expends 1000 ft/lbs into the target, but my .223 stops in the target and expends 1,001 ft/lbs... which one is then "more effective"?  Numbers on a page mean nothing in the real world. The .223 round out of an AR is the ideal mix of cost, availability, speed, accuracy, sufficient amount of bullet damage, and ammo logistics for the maximum slaughtering of hogs; which is my ultimate goal in hunting hogs.  A .308 is no more effective at making hogs dead than my .223. In fact, it is a hindrance.

62gr nosier ballistic tip with TAC.

62gr 556 works fine, I typically use solids. I collect 4-5 a year for sausage, the rest are left to lay or donated to food pantries. A 6.8 to the head blows the eyes clean out.

I hunt mostly at night, so most of my shots are under 50 yards. I've had a few longer ones, but a 1-6 or red dot works fine.

That comes from 2 things. First, most hunters are ignorant of a hog's anatomy. It's not like a deer. Their lungs and heart are almost completely covered by their shoulders. If you take a behind the shoulder shot, there's a good chance you're just hitting guts. Then the hog runs off and people think the hog was so tough because, by God, they blew that hogs lungs to smithereens. In reality, their shot was the equivalent of shooting a deer in the middle of its body.

The second is to add to the excitement of the hunt. It's not exciting enough if you're just going out to hunt a pig. If they think that pig is 700lbs, has cutters a foot long, and is armor-plated, then they feel like they're doing something. It's like hunting dangerous game.

For me wishing for a Bushmaster chain gun is for shear vengeance for when I drive up on a sounder ripping a hay meadow up. That’s when you want maximum carnage. A squealing pig blown in half dragging it’s destructive carcass to the woods. Not having to aim just laying down fire as they scamper to safety. But oh well fantasy aside any rifle and patience will work just get out and kill a few.

double tap

Yes.

I dropped em with Wolf 55gr FMJ.

I have it on good authority, that yo can kill pigs with shi**y fmj ammo. Don’t even matter if it’s 556,308,6.8 ect.  The secret is to get real close, then shoot them in the head.  I did hear a rumor once , that you don’t even have to have a trijicon mk3 60.  But that’s all crazy talk, what do I know ......  hope everyone has a good weekend and gets to kill pigs.

What the hell would you know, Tim-Timmah?


I kinda want to build a 6.5/6.8 14.5” LW upper (aside from the can and the 3.87 lb Thermal brick) to use the next time I come up. Head and neck shots drop em.

Took the 6.5 Grendel out this weekend and decided to try the cheap Hornady American Gunner ammo.  Won't be doing that again.  Perfectly-placed first shots still dropped them, but movers did not go down, even with multiple hits.  The ranch owner said he found the dead hogs in the daylight, following the buzzards, so I know they were hits.  He was still thankful for the swine removal, but I will be sticking with hunting rounds like the SST that are specifically designed to have better core retention with the mechanical locked and cannelured jacket, or the Federal Fusion soft point.

Here’s where I’ve come down on the ammo selection question (aka does cheap ammo work): If you have a giant open field, where you can get in lots of shots on the running pigs, then sure, go with cheap ammo knowing you’re gonna have to put 3 or 4 in each pig.  The first shot will always be an easy kill if you do your part.  But if you have narrow lanes, or roads, or whatever, you better invest in a bullet that can get it done on the first shot.

And hello, 20 cents each times 4 is 80 cents.  Maybe we should just use one 80 cent bullet and go kill more hogs.  Yeah sure you can drop the first hog with a cheapo round in the head, but after that they’re all running and you’re just making body shots.