Posted: 10/31/2011 10:59:15 AM EDT
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So I was out Quail hunting this morning and while I was encountering plenty a covey I only came home with 2 birds...
Last time I was out I came home with 7... 3 of those being hit 3 for 3 all in one jump... Fast forward to today and I had quail jumping from just feet away and me completely missing. What has changed? The choke. I had been using the Turkey Choke that came with the gun, a Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag. I had a pretty good early Dove season with it and took good quail shots with it last time out. I got an Improved Cylinder Choke and that is what I was using today. Now how much difference does the make on pattern? The only 2 I even hit were about 20 yards away and on the ground. Anything that went up in the air we as good as gone 
I even took a shot at a quail on the ground at about 35-40 yards... put 2 rounds on him and he still shook it off and flew away! Is it me not knowing how to shoot that IC choke or is it me just sucking ass? At this point I am gonna put the Turkey Choke back in. As I understand it, it has a tighter pattern correct? All I know is I could make some pretty nice hits with that Turkey choke and today with that IC choke I might as well been shooting blanks. |
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Turkey choke is a tighter choke. With the Improved Cylinder choke, the doves could be small enough that holes in the pattern are allowing the doves to slip through. You should take both chokes out, and pattern them to see what kind of patterns they are throwing. You could try a modified choke, which is tighter than the IC, but not as tight as the turkey choke. I have my bird gun, an SKB O/U in 20ga, set up with the first barrel with an IC choke, and the second barrel with a modified. |
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Quoted:
Turkey choke is a tighter choke. With the Improved Cylinder choke, the doves could be small enough that holes in the pattern are allowing the doves to slip through. You should take both chokes out, and pattern them to see what kind of patterns they are throwing. You could try a modified choke, which is tighter than the IC, but not as tight as the turkey choke. I have my bird gun, an SKB O/U in 20ga, set up with the first barrel with an IC choke, and the second barrel with a modified. Well I am gonna put the Turkey Choke back in. I was nailing dove at 30-40 yards while flying and in close as well. I was hitting Quail as close at 10 yards and out to 30+ yards with it. A month ago I took a shot on a quail about 20 yards and seriously shot it's eyes out. That kicked up 2 more quail, one flying to the right, dropped it. Then one flying away and slightly left, dropped it at about 30 yards. Lots of the Quail I was seeing today were on the ground at 30-40 yards and I could barely drop them at 20 yards on the ground with this choke. So I didn't even attempt the shot. Even the Quail that jumped and flew straight away, right in my sights, were misses I'd try to stalk closer but never get within shooting distance that I felt would drop them. Was always with in 30 yards or so but never a really good shot worth taking. If I had the Turkey Choke in I'd had taken lots of these longer shots as I've done it in the past...
I went with this IC choke because it was recommended for Quail... Took a shot on quail running at about 35-40 yards, 2 shots, dust kicked up, feathers flew, he flew away like nothing happened 
I've taken that shot with the Turkey choke with different results... Let me tell you how disappointing it was once I got back to the car 
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Quoted:
Yea, I think 30-40 yards with an IC choke might be a bit too far. If the turkey choke works for you, then by all means, go back to it. When you have time, you might try a mod choke, and see what you think. Good luck, and good hunting!  Yeah, maybe next season, it was a stretch to get the IC choke but I thought it would work better. Turkey choke is already back in 
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Quoted: Quoted: Yea, I think 30-40 yards with an IC choke might be a bit too far. If the turkey choke works for you, then by all means, go back to it. When you have time, you might try a mod choke, and see what you think. Good luck, and good hunting! Yeah, maybe next season, it was a stretch to get the IC choke but I thought it would work better. Turkey choke is already back in There is no way to tell unless you pattern it. My educated guess is that it was nothing to do with the choke. The difference between no choke and full choke - all other things being equal - is about 10-15 yards. An IC throws the same pattern as your turkey choke...it just does so at different points along the trajectory. My guess is that your mount...body to shotgun interface...is inconsistent. This is the most likely cause. If you want to meet me up at Rio Salado, you can be my guest on the shotgun range and we can pattern that gun on the grease board and then bust some clays. |
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I was thinking about that as well and have a camelback with the water hose on my shooting side. So I am gonna switch it to the left side though it's never been a problem before. Also I often practice bring the gun to shoulder and check my sight picture. It is always lined up, I have 3 dot illuminated sights. When rabbits jump I always bring it to the ready just to practice that sight picture as well.
I am gonna head back out next week and see if the Turkey choke make the difference. I do know that turkey choke has given me longer shots after seeing what the IC choke did. I am usually pretty decent and the choke was the only thing that has changed so it's the first thing that I will switch out to either confirm or deny it as the root of the problem. As much as I'd like to come up to Rio, I barely get the time to hunt
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Three dot sights?? With a pack strap on?? I'm amazed you're hitting anything at all. That you aren't turning these quail into a bloody mess of gooey feathers is also telling. If I shot at a quail with a 12 ga. and a turkey choke, there would literally be nothing left. You are getting lucky and hitting them with the fringe of your pattern. I even took a shot at a quail on the ground at about 35-40 yards... put 2 rounds on him and he still shook it off and flew away! Now I am 100% certain that you are not mounting the gun correctly and consistently. That bird didn't shake anything off. You missed. Because of your pack, you have slightly increased your length of pull. Your eyeball is your rear sight with a shotgun. You moved your rear sight down (back further along the comb) and you missed high. Yes, I know it looked like dust kicked up all around the bird. That was you missing. Shot strings travel like a teardrop. FWIW, I hold multiple instructor / coach certifications in shotgun. I've got a fair number of people fooled into believing I know what I'm talking about. |
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Quoted:
Three dot sights?? With a pack strap on?? I'm amazed you're hitting anything at all. That you aren't turning these quail into a bloody mess of gooey feathers is also telling. If I shot at a quail with a 12 ga. and a turkey choke, there would literally be nothing left. You are getting lucky and hitting them with the fringe of your pattern. I even took a shot at a quail on the ground at about 35-40 yards... put 2 rounds on him and he still shook it off and flew away!
just to add, he looked like he had been hit and feathers were all over the place, that's why I was surprised he flew away. Dust did kick up but the quail was right in the center of it. Also why I was surprised. Now I am 100% certain that you are not mounting the gun correctly and consistently. That bird didn't shake anything off. You missed. Because of your pack, you have slightly increased your length of pull. Your eyeball is your rear sight with a shotgun. You moved your rear sight down (back further along the comb) and you missed high. Yes, I know it looked like dust kicked up all around the bird. That was you missing. Shot strings travel like a teardrop. FWIW, I hold multiple instructor / coach certifications in shotgun. I've got a fair number of people fooled into believing I know what I'm talking about. It's very possible. I have had some tore up birds between quail and dove with this gun if they were close. I am no expert but I know that I was able to hit birds very consistently before (fringe or not, but I see your point completely and that makes complete since, I've never been the best with a shotgun ).
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Update:
Went out this morning was 2 for 3. I put the Turkey choke back in and the first quail I took a shot on was 30+ yards and flying high. Nailed it. Second was too close for any choke, about 10 yards. Blew a leg clean off, along with most it's guts... I only took one other shot and I missed but that is just straight up because I didn't aim. It was a point shot but mostly because I thought my brother was gonna hit it... so we really both missed  
I probably could have taken few more shots but didn't. Seen a fair amount of birds but wasn't always in a position to take a shot. I was happy though I hit what I was aiming at this time. Was it the choke or was I just on a shit day last time? I don't know... I did pick up a Quail call, that helped a bit. Didn't think it was working until the end of the hunt when I called one in and my brother hit it. A hawk was roaming the area and was calling and kind of messed us up a touch but I need to get a hawk call to freeze the little bastards... My brother on the other hand blasted about half a box and only got the one I called in 
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Quoted:
I went out to Rio today and paid $5 for a paper plate and one shell and won a 12 lb. turkey. Only took me about 5 minutes and a 25 yard walk, too. I hiked for 4 hours to get 2 quail 
Add that the the 4 hours for the other 2... Man... I just need enough for a meal then I am done for the year. At this rate I'll have to hike another 8 hours or so
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Keep in mind that if you are shooting at birds that are 30-40 yards away, you are basicially shooting trap. Thats about how far away the clays are when shot during the game of trap. You would never dare to shoot an IC choke on the trap field as the clays are too far away. Your experience here is exactly why.
FWIW, I shoot a full choke when quail hunting. Always had great luck. With the full choke you're really covered for all distances including 40 yards or more. Yeah, you can argue that a full choke will be too much for birds that are close, but in my experience it is rare that I will see the bird flush, register it in my brain to make sure it's a quail, aim and then fire on a quail beofre it's 20 yards or more away.....especially if you take the time to make good accurate shots. |