[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is baiting deer cheating ? (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 12/3/2011 8:57:50 PM EDT
| Here in Indiana baiting is illegal, but most states allow it. I just wonder how you guys feel about baiting deer, is it cheating ? My daughter and I were watching a deer hunting show and they were in a nice box blind stand and "hunting" about 50-75 yds, from a corn feeder. Deer every where and they just waited and picked the one they wanted and shot ( with more gun than you'd ever need at that range). My kid looked at me and said "that's not hunting !", I said, what do you mean ? she says" that's cheating, they didn't hunt anything, they just shot a deer like a target" Out of the mouths of babes, as they say. So what's your take on baiting ? So whatever it takes to fill tags or earn your deer the hard way ? |
If you're hungry it's not cheating.  It's illegal in PA too and I agree with the rule. I however disagree with the PA rule that prohibits semi-auto firearms for hunting. At one point I agreed with it because of the erratic shooting I've heard while in the woods but there aren't near as many hunters in the woods anymore. It seems most of the crazy shooting has ceased.
|
| Also illegal in Iowa. Not sure having a corn feeder is such a bad thing though, if you use it to help the herd get through the winter you did a lot of good. You can plant a food plot and what ever grows there is legal so really there is not a lot of difference. Since I grew up in Texas and they hunt over a feeder I dont have a problem with it because anytime you use a firearm you are just picking which one you want anyway, feeder or not.. I feel like it's your land its your deer on your land you choose. I tend to think it is a great way to get a kid their first deer which may result in them being interested in hunting. For kids I would be in favor of also allowing rifles in the same straight wall cartridges that we allow pistols to be used like 44 mag or 45-70 as those have about the same trajectory as a musket or shotgun. The only time rifle is legal here is late antlerless in the lower part of Iowa. I prefer to hunt with a bow and to use calls and scent and stand placement to get my deer but I feel like a guy ought to be able to hunt his own land how he wants to so long as it does not endanger others. Here the gun hunters push deer one group tromps through the woods toward the group that is posted and the deer run out and it sounds like a small war which I dont think is nearly as safe or humane of a kill as a carefully place shot on a deer standing at a feeder. They wound a lot of deer and occasionally shoot a few other hunters that usually does not happen with a feeder. . |
|
Quoted:
For kids I would be in favor of also allowing rifles in the same straight wall cartridges that we allow pistols to be used like 44 mag or 45-70 as those have about the same trajectory as a musket or shotgun. . . I agree, Indiana started allowing pistol cailiber rifle for deer in I think 2007, no 45-70 ;case has to be under 1.8" . The recoil of a shotgun ,even a 20 ga. is a bit much for a kid. We use a Rossi .44 mag single shot rifle and has dropped deer 3 for 3. I wish they'd allow the kids more time to fill their tag, maybe an extra week of kid only so they don't have to compete with all the adults in the woods. Indiana keeps saying the deer pop. is to big yet the seasons only run a few weeks except archery. |
| Illegal for deer in Georgia!Food plots are legal.I dont have a problem with baiting but dont do it because of the laws.Baiting would help thin them down though.Georgia is overrun by deer.We are allowed 13.I usually only take 2!I shouldnt complain when I lived in Florida(Everglades)the pigs weighed more than the deer if you could find one! |
|
Texan!
Everybody uses them here. I not sure it's cheating, but I don't think it's sporting. Deer are everywhere here. One guy at work would take his tag from his hot tub. Driving home from a party last night in a well established neighborhood in Austin, I saw a few dozen deer wandering the streets. Can't shoot them in city limits. Perhaps some kind of pit? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
who cares. it's food. it's a renewable resource. That's what they said about the Dodo bird too  You do realize we've learned a thing or two about how that happens and what to do in order to prevent enilation(ap?) of a species. Right? Do things like; seasons, daily limits, posession limits, shooting times, etc... ring any bells ? |
|
I really don't like the term cheating.
I think there are a lot of disadvantages to baiting deer, it is illegal in many states, but I think efforts to ban baiting need to be treated like efforts to ban using dogs for deer, bear or lions. Us hunters need to stick together, use of dogs, baiting, in-line vs traditional muzzle loaders, and many other aspects of hunting are used by anti hunting groups to divide and conquer hunters. |
|
Quoted:
I agree with the "If you're hungry" part If this is for "Sport" it's not hunting it's an ambush +1 I guess it all depends on why you are shooting the deer. If you want it to be sporting, make it sporting. If you are harvesting, do it the easiest way possible. |
|
If using a feeder is cheating, then so is using a rifle at any more than 40 yards. One way you're bringing deer in by appealing to their stomach, the other way you're preventing them using their senses to get away from the danger.
It took two years of work, but I took my first buck yesterday from land that didn't hold a single deer when I started. The feeder brought the does in and the bucks came onto the property looking for them. It might be different in BLM country where you can go after the animals where they are, but in a state like Texas where you might only have 10 acres you can hunt (I have 32 acres) you do what you have to do to bring animals in. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
who cares. it's food. it's a renewable resource. That's what they said about the Dodo bird too You do realize we've learned a thing or two about how that happens and what to do in order to prevent enilation(ap?) of a species. Right? Do things like; seasons, daily limits, posession limits, shooting times, etc... ring any bells ? It wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Lighten up, we're all hunters here, I thought it was a funny reply to your comment. 
|
|
Quoted:
As long as it's legal I don't call it cheating but I don't call it hunting either. Maybe shooting? Old guy came to visit us at the cabin called it fishing. My dad would have called using a treestand cheating. He would use the term "fair chase". Everybody hunts over bait in one way or another, tree stands are cheating? Is hiding behind a tree on the ground cheating? Perhaps the only way to not cheat to is to hunt sky lining yourself and trying to run the deer down, after it knows you are there, then leap on its back and bite down on its wind pipe until it suffocates. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
As long as it's legal I don't call it cheating but I don't call it hunting either. Maybe shooting? Old guy came to visit us at the cabin called it fishing. My dad would have called using a treestand cheating. He would use the term "fair chase". Everybody hunts over bait in one way or another, tree stands are cheating? Is hiding behind a tree on the ground cheating? Perhaps the only way to not cheat to is to hunt sky lining yourself and trying to run the deer down, after it knows you are there, then leap on its back and bite down on its wind pipe until it suffocates. I don't think so... what's put there naturally is food, what a feeder spreads is bait used to lure the animal in to that specific spot. But, if that's how you do it, I don't have problem, to each his own. There are a lot of people who run deer with dogs, I don't do it, but I don't have a problem as long as it's legal. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As long as it's legal I don't call it cheating but I don't call it hunting either. Maybe shooting? Old guy came to visit us at the cabin called it fishing. My dad would have called using a treestand cheating. He would use the term "fair chase". Everybody hunts over bait in one way or another, tree stands are cheating? Is hiding behind a tree on the ground cheating? Perhaps the only way to not cheat to is to hunt sky lining yourself and trying to run the deer down, after it knows you are there, then leap on its back and bite down on its wind pipe until it suffocates. I don't think so... what's put there naturally is food, what a feeder spreads is bait used to lure the animal in to that specific spot. But, if that's how you do it, I don't have problem, to each his own. There are a lot of people who run deer with dogs, I don't do it, but I don't have a problem as long as it's legal. The deer does not know if you put the acorns on the ground or if they fell off of a tree, I hunt a watering hole on a creek sometimes, no different than if I put the water there myself. |
|
Normally I'd say cheating, but it is sometimes the only way to shoot something when everyone else has been baiting 6 weeks prior to the season. People up here always say the deer vanish into hiding after the first 2 days of the season, not true - they find an abandoned 200lb bait pile on Monday morning and never leave it - usually within 200 yards of the nearest road. That is a great method for meat hunters on public land though, find the abandoned pile during the week to easily fill all your antlerless tags. I'm sure someone will have an ethical bone to pick with me for saying that, so I'll put my helmet on now.
The WI bait limit is 2 gallons, but that stops very few people from pushing a wheel barrow through the woods. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Using anything but your bare hands and your teeth is cheating Bare feet and bare ass too! Damn clothed pussies that can't stand the sharp rocks and weather shouldn't be allowed to "hunt"!!! Damn Straight Definitely bigger bragging rights than hunting over a whirring feeder and waiting for the 135-150" to stroll up. Eta: sorry, I meant.... Passing on the doe and 130-140's while waiting for the 150+" to show. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Using anything but your bare hands and your teeth is cheating Bare feet and bare ass too! Damn clothed pussies that can't stand the sharp rocks and weather shouldn't be allowed to "hunt"!!! Damn Straight Definitely bigger bragging rights than hunting over a whirring feeder and waiting for the 135-150" to stroll up. You shoot deer that small? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Using anything but your bare hands and your teeth is cheating Bare feet and bare ass too! Damn clothed pussies that can't stand the sharp rocks and weather shouldn't be allowed to "hunt"!!! Damn Straight Definitely bigger bragging rights than hunting over a whirring feeder and waiting for the 135-150" to stroll up. You shoot deer that small? LOL! Good one! I'm a public land guy. No motorized stuff before or after the kill! 
|
|
Quoted:
I hunt on private farm fields, I hunt on foot and not over feeders, but there are 100's of acres of food planted that they are eating. I have to drag em out also. You are most definitely a better hunter than I. Deep woods for me and it's been a biiig learning curve... The drag out makes them taste more better, IMO. |
| You dont just drop off a feeder and expect results. You need to scout, refill and maintain them. Where I hunt you cant get 10 feet off the road because of the thick brush. My hunting buddy got a 10 point this morning. The deer was in the road and 150 yd shot with a 270 the buck still manaded to get about 50 feet back in the brush. It took use an hour to drag the deer out of the brush We also drop corn up and down the road to get crossing deer to stop for a second. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I hunt on private farm fields, I hunt on foot and not over feeders, but there are 100's of acres of food planted that they are eating. I have to drag em out also. You are most definitely a better hunter than I. Deep woods for me and it's been a biiig learning curve... The drag out makes them taste more better, IMO. Same for me; public land, in the woods , drag 'em out . Maybe the exhaust from those ATVs taints the meat
|
|
Quoted:
You dont just drop off a feeder and expect results. You need to scout, refill and maintain them. Where I hunt you cant get 10 feet off the road because of the thick brush. My hunting buddy got a 10 point this morning. The deer was in the road and 150 yd shot with a 270 the buck still manaded to get about 50 feet back in the brush. It took use an hour to drag the deer out of the brush We also drop corn up and down the road to get crossing deer to stop for a second. Try it without dumped corn and 1 1/2 miles away from any road you are aloud to drive a truck or 4wheeler on. Bicycles and carts baby. ETA: 99% bow for me. 130+"' are ghosts for me. You guys pass on much bigger than that I'll bet. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You dont just drop off a feeder and expect results. You need to scout, refill and maintain them. Where I hunt you cant get 10 feet off the road because of the thick brush. My hunting buddy got a 10 point this morning. The deer was in the road and 150 yd shot with a 270 the buck still manaded to get about 50 feet back in the brush. It took use an hour to drag the deer out of the brush We also drop corn up and down the road to get crossing deer to stop for a second. Try it without dumped corn and 1 1/2 miles away from any road you are aloud to drive a truck or 4wheeler on. Bicycles and carts baby. ETA: 99% bow for me. 130+"' are ghosts for me. You guys pass on much bigger than that I'll bet. I let a 135 8 walk this morning, but to be honest 145 ish is as big as I have killed Eta the big Boys don't come out on the killing fields or to feeders very often |
|
If hunting over corn is cheating then wouldn't it be cheating to hunt over a food plot planted specifically for deer? If you plant corn in the spring with no intent of harvesting it but only to leave it standing to attract deer, is that cheating?
I don't hunt over corn but I do plant fields that attract deer for the purpose of killing them. I say if its legal then do what you want, who am I to tell you how to hunt. If it was legal in Alabama I might try it but you would probably go broke buying corn. Theres just way to many deer in some places around here. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You dont just drop off a feeder and expect results. You need to scout, refill and maintain them. Where I hunt you cant get 10 feet off the road because of the thick brush. My hunting buddy got a 10 point this morning. The deer was in the road and 150 yd shot with a 270 the buck still manaded to get about 50 feet back in the brush. It took use an hour to drag the deer out of the brush We also drop corn up and down the road to get crossing deer to stop for a second. Try it without dumped corn and 1 1/2 miles away from any road you are aloud to drive a truck or 4wheeler on. Bicycles and carts baby. ETA: 99% bow for me. 130+"' are ghosts for me. You guys pass on much bigger than that I'll bet. I let a 135 8 walk this morning, but to be honest 145 ish is as big as I have killed Eta the big Boys don't come out on the killing fields or to feeders very often The thing is... Hunting over feeders seems to spoil hunters to the point where a lot will now pass on the smaller antlered deer than those who don't hunt over feeders. I dont care if folks take their deer over feeders. More power to them. Selling it as some serious feat compared to thise who don't... Yea. Whatever. |
|
Quoted:
Illegal for deer in Georgia!Food plots are legal.I dont have a problem with baiting but dont do it because of the laws.Baiting would help thin them down though.Georgia is overrun by deer.We are allowed 13.I usually only take 2!I shouldnt complain when I lived in Florida(Everglades)the pigs weighed more than the deer if you could find one! Corn is legal in the southern zone this year. From what I hear it hasn't helped increase the harvest numbers though. |
|
Quoted:
If hunting over corn is cheating then wouldn't it be cheating to hunt over a food plot planted specifically for deer? If you plant corn in the spring with no intent of harvesting it but only to leave it standing to attract deer, is that cheating? I don't hunt over corn but I do plant fields that attract deer for the purpose of killing them. I say if its legal then do what you want, who am I to tell you how to hunt. If it was legal in Alabama I might try it but you would probably go broke buying corn. Theres just way to many deer in some places around here. Food plots benefit and improve the herd, some areas up here with a lot of large private tracts have deer like oats because of the standing corn fields. Why go through the trouble of a food plot if it isn't for overall deer management? A pile of corn serves the purpose of attracting and a much lower cost and less labor. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You dont just drop off a feeder and expect results. You need to scout, refill and maintain them. Where I hunt you cant get 10 feet off the road because of the thick brush. My hunting buddy got a 10 point this morning. The deer was in the road and 150 yd shot with a 270 the buck still manaded to get about 50 feet back in the brush. It took use an hour to drag the deer out of the brush We also drop corn up and down the road to get crossing deer to stop for a second. Try it without dumped corn and 1 1/2 miles away from any road you are aloud to drive a truck or 4wheeler on. Bicycles and carts baby. ETA: 99% bow for me. 130+"' are ghosts for me. You guys pass on much bigger than that I'll bet. I let a 135 8 walk this morning, but to be honest 145 ish is as big as I have killed Eta the big Boys don't come out on the killing fields or to feeders very often The thing is... Hunting over feeders seems to spoil hunters to the point where a lot will now pass on the smaller antlered deer than those who don't hunt over feeders. I dont care if folks take their deer over feeders. More power to them. Selling it as some serious feat compared to thise who don't... Yea. Whatever. LOL ok brother, I have never seen a mature buck on a feeder EVER. Not that I have hunted them that much. We rarely even see Mature deer on large 100s of acre farm fields planted with wheat etc. You only see them in the killingg zones when they are with a Hot doe in the rut or a blizzard forces them out. They may hit it after dark but rarely. Now you may kill a mature buck near a feeder as he cruises by a good distance away looking for hot does. It just depends. Your odds at killing a good buck are much better hunting transitional areas. Much more likely to catch them during legal hours that way. |
| I think it depends on the law and if you are hunting for horns or what. Where I hunt in IL I think bait would be cheating even if it was legal. Shooting a fat doe in areas of high deer population is easy. Most years I have something tagged within the first 15 minutes of firearm season. |
|
I don't think it's cheating.
I don't do it but it is legal where I hunt currently. Some people like to find a place the deer like to be naturally...which is between food/bed/water Other people like to create a place the deer like to be by providing food/bed/water. What's the difference? One person has to work to find that place, the other person has to work creating that place. I don't see much difference. Both way's take work, just a different kind of work. You still have to make it to the stand and shoot the deer. Nothing is keeping the deer there physically so it's not cheating. Roping a deer to a tree, or fencing them into a specific area...that's cheating, putting food on the ground, not cheating. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You dont just drop off a feeder and expect results. You need to scout, refill and maintain them. Where I hunt you cant get 10 feet off the road because of the thick brush. My hunting buddy got a 10 point this morning. The deer was in the road and 150 yd shot with a 270 the buck still manaded to get about 50 feet back in the brush. It took use an hour to drag the deer out of the brush We also drop corn up and down the road to get crossing deer to stop for a second. Try it without dumped corn and 1 1/2 miles away from any road you are aloud to drive a truck or 4wheeler on. Bicycles and carts baby. ETA: 99% bow for me. 130+"' are ghosts for me. You guys pass on much bigger than that I'll bet. I let a 135 8 walk this morning, but to be honest 145 ish is as big as I have killed Eta the big Boys don't come out on the killing fields or to feeders very often The thing is... Hunting over feeders seems to spoil hunters to the point where a lot will now pass on the smaller antlered deer than those who don't hunt over feeders. I dont care if folks take their deer over feeders. More power to them. Selling it as some serious feat compared to thise who don't... Yea. Whatever. I grew up in St. Joe, Mo before I joined the Corps back in 1984. I spent years roaming the woods in Buchanan, Platte, and Andrew counties. I would like to see you try to hunt South Texas brush country deer like you do in Missouri. It simply can't be done. As for not shooting smaller antlered deer down here, there are several factors involved. First, most hunters understand that if you want to see big bucks, you have to let the small ones live. Second, a standard Texas hunting license has 5 whitetail tags, 3 are antlerless and the other 2 are buck or antlerless. Third, the season is long. Nov 5th through mid January, So unless it's the last day of the season and you haven't seen anything worth shooting in the last 10 weeks, most hunters don't feel the need to shoot the first buck they see. Shooting a good deer on a South Texas brush country sendero is more challenging than many who have never done it believe it is. You have just a few seconds to determine range, sex, age, and make the shot before the deer walks into thorn brush so thick a man will have to crawl on his hands an knees (where the rattlesnakes, scorpions, and wild pigs will put your ass in the hurt locker) to get through it. Selling being able to walk upright through the woods to a tree stand overlooking a plowed food plot or a grove of oaks that drop thousands of pounds of acorns on the ground is not much of a feat either. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You dont just drop off a feeder and expect results. You need to scout, refill and maintain them. Where I hunt you cant get 10 feet off the road because of the thick brush. My hunting buddy got a 10 point this morning. The deer was in the road and 150 yd shot with a 270 the buck still manaded to get about 50 feet back in the brush. It took use an hour to drag the deer out of the brush We also drop corn up and down the road to get crossing deer to stop for a second. Try it without dumped corn and 1 1/2 miles away from any road you are aloud to drive a truck or 4wheeler on. Bicycles and carts baby. ETA: 99% bow for me. 130+"' are ghosts for me. You guys pass on much bigger than that I'll bet. I let a 135 8 walk this morning, but to be honest 145 ish is as big as I have killed Eta the big Boys don't come out on the killing fields or to feeders very often The thing is... Hunting over feeders seems to spoil hunters to the point where a lot will now pass on the smaller antlered deer than those who don't hunt over feeders. I dont care if folks take their deer over feeders. More power to them. Selling it as some serious feat compared to thise who don't... Yea. Whatever. I grew up in St. Joe, Mo before I joined the Corps back in 1984. I spent years roaming the woods in Buchanan, Platte, and Andrew counties. I would like to see you try to hunt South Texas brush country deer like you do in Missouri. It simply can't be done. As for not shooting smaller antlered deer down here, there are several factors involved. First, most hunters understand that if you want to see big bucks, you have to let the small ones live. Second, a standard Texas hunting license has 5 whitetail tags, 3 are antlerless and the other 2 are buck or antlerless. Third, the season is long. Nov 5th through mid January, So unless it's the last day of the season and you haven't seen anything worth shooting in the last 10 weeks, most hunters don't feel the need to shoot the first buck they see. Shooting a good deer on a South Texas brush country sendero is more challenging than many who have never done it believe it is. You have just a few seconds to determine range, sex, age, and make the shot before the deer walks into thorn brush so thick a man will have to crawl on his hands an knees (where the rattlesnakes, scorpions, and wild pigs will put your ass in the hurt locker) to get through it. Selling being able to walk upright through the woods to a tree stand overlooking a plowed food plot or a grove of oaks that drop thousands of pounds of acorns on the ground is not much of a feat either. You're right... Well you would be right if I wanted to shoot a doe or immature bucks and then try to brag on it. I let those pass though... well not the doe if'n I think it's time for one in the freezer... or I am willing to (or have the time needed) to drag it out a mile and a half. Lot's of variables we both are leaving out, eh? 
|