Posted: 11/11/2010 2:33:45 PM EDT
Took the Bambi slayer out to sight it in today, First 3 shots were in a golf ball size at 50 yards, shot a few more and it seemed the more the barrel warmed up, the cooler it got outside and the more I shot the worse my group started to wander.... Is this normal? Im trying to justify how this could have happened.. Human error is human error, I shoot enough to know when I'm pulling the trigger, or just plain had a bad shot. Im puzzled, The scope and rings are solid, and It didn't act as if the retical was loose, as the groups were still very tight they just drifted a bit once the gun was shot.. Do things like barrel temp/fouling effect a slug considerably ( 3-4 inch's high right)? There's nothing worse then hitting the bull with the first 3 shots and leaving the range worse off then you came.... I gave her a good cleaning, and will try a cold bore shot tomorrow, is there anything I should look for if my gun keeps doing this? Shotgun opens up for us on the 20th, and if its equipment failure I wanna get it taken care of asap...
ETA... Mods if this is more of a tech question I apologize feel free to move it to the proper place, I was just hoping maybe a fellow deer hunter that uses a shotgun had some experience with this type of situation... |
Are you shooting a sabot slug in a rifled barrel? I noticed with my SX3 that when running Lightfield slugs in it, the barrel will foul up quickly. Like 4-5 shots then my accuracy at 100 yards goes to hell. I'm talking pie plate or worse. Just to double check my groups, I shoot my groups, clean the gun once I hit my first flier, then l take another target and shoot again. I let the bore cool down a little between groups. I could be completely wrong though. If I am, someone will be along to correct me. 
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Are you shooting a sabot slug in a rifled barrel? I noticed with my SX3 that when running Lightfield slugs in it, the barrel will foul up quickly. Like 4-5 shots then my accuracy at 100 yards goes to hell. I'm talking pie plate or worse. Just to double check my groups, I shoot my groups, clean the gun once I hit my first flier, then l take another target and shoot again. I let the bore cool down a little between groups. I could be completely wrong though. If I am, someone will be along to correct me. This is sounds exactly like whats goin on with me... Yes rifled barrel, and im shooting hornady SST slugs... First three shots were all touching, after that shit went haywire... All my shots were with in a paper plate, But I know im a better shot then that... |
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Shotgun barrels are much softer than rifle barrels. When they heat up, there is not telling what they will do.
Each slug barrel and shotgun seems to be different as far as accuracy. You can have one that will hit well with anything you put in it and one that will hit with only ONE type of slug. I've got an 870 with a Remchoke slug barrel that won't hit a 55 gal drum at 50 yards with anything but S&B slugs. I once cut a cheap single shot H&R 20 ga down to 20" and shortened the stock to 11" for a kid to use. With Remington 700 sites silflossed on it, it was super accurate out to 100 yds with almost any slug I put in it. I loaned it to a friend's son and he killed a nice buck with it the first time hunted.  I had to sell him the gun for a $1 because he wanted it so bad.
If your shotgun kit will with the first three shots out of it, I'd say you've got a winning combination for a slug gun if you don't heat it up. |
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Shotgun barrels are much softer than rifle barrels. When they heat up, there is not telling what they will do. Each slug barrel and shotgun seems to be different as far as accuracy. You can have one that will hit well with anything you put in it and one that will hit with only ONE type of slug. I've got an 870 with a Remchoke slug barrel that won't hit a 55 gal drum at 50 yards with anything but S&B slugs. I once cut a cheap single shot H&R 20 ga down to 20" and shortened the stock to 11" for a kid to use. With Remington 700 sites silflossed on it, it was super accurate out to 100 yds with almost any slug I put in it. I loaned it to a friend's son and he killed a nice buck with it the first time hunted. I had to sell him the gun for a $1 because he wanted it so bad.
If your shotgun kit will with the first three shots out of it, I'd say you've got a winning combination for a slug gun if you don't heat it up. She dose seem to like the SSTs.. Like I said even when the groups wandered, they were still pretty tight.... |
| Shot it again today... Same results. 3-4 on target then some flyer's.. I cleaned the barrel, 3-4 on target them some flyer's... All the shots were within a kill zone of a deer, since the season opens in a week and I have 10 boxes of ammo, Im going to try and run it. If I play my cards right, I could tag out before the barrel starts to toss rounds.. Doubtful, but who knows... Anyone one have any good recommendations for slugs? (Rifled barrel).. |
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I hated using a shotgun with slugs, my Savage ML makes things all better now...
But yes, a warm barrel with sabots can be bad...not as bad in a shotgun as a ML, but the sabot plastic will heat up if its in the chamber too long in a hot barrel (in a shotgun) –– maybe that has something to do with it? (It does big-time on muzzleloaders, but the sabot is engaged with the hot barrel more, so a little different) Plus those slug barrels will not shoot good hot normally, AND will get many folks flinching because they kick like a mule...AND the trigger usually sucks as well (unless its set up JUST for slugs) best of luck, it sucks not having total confidence in your gun during season. |
| I use and have used Lightfield slugs for over 10 years. I too notice fliers after about 4 rounds or so. The barrel really heats up and like someone else said, shotgun barrels are softer, espically when compared to an AR. I like the Lightfieds because their 2 3/4in slugs have a 1 1/4oz slug. Makes a big hole. Bigger hole means dead deer. Sometimes it's hard to hit the heart, lungs, etc. when shooting a slug gun at a distance. The deer are running, your in a tree and making a tough shot....numerous reasons. My experience has been great with these slugs. I will shoot 2-3 rounds, check my target do some dry firing before I shoot again. Gives the barrel a chance to cool off. Also give me time to recover from the impact of shooting a 12ga slug gun. No matter how tough you are, your body will react to the gun and cause you to flinch at times. Practice will cure this but with sabot slugs being so darn expensive, it's hard to practice alot. Sounds like you are ready. If you are hitting a paper plate at 100 yards, that is a dead dear. I use the same method. If you miss in the field, don't get down on yourself. It happens. I missed a great buck at 30 yards last year as it trotted in front of me. No excuses, I simply missed. Took a deer later the same evening at a greater distance. Good luck on you hunt. |
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I use and have used Lightfield slugs for over 10 years. I too notice fliers after about 4 rounds or so. The barrel really heats up and like someone else said, shotgun barrels are softer, espically when compared to an AR. I like the Lightfieds because their 2 3/4in slugs have a 1 1/4oz slug. Makes a big hole. Bigger hole means dead deer. Sometimes it's hard to hit the heart, lungs, etc. when shooting a slug gun at a distance. The deer are running, your in a tree and making a tough shot....numerous reasons. My experience has been great with these slugs. I will shoot 2-3 rounds, check my target do some dry firing before I shoot again. Gives the barrel a chance to cool off. Also give me time to recover from the impact of shooting a 12ga slug gun. No matter how tough you are, your body will react to the gun and cause you to flinch at times. Practice will cure this but with sabot slugs being so darn expensive, it's hard to practice alot. Sounds like you are ready. If you are hitting a paper plate at 100 yards, that is a dead dear. I use the same method. If you miss in the field, don't get down on yourself. It happens. I missed a great buck at 30 yards last year as it trotted in front of me. No excuses, I simply missed. Took a deer later the same evening at a greater distance. Good luck on you hunt. I tend to say "imagine doubling your group size when shooting at live animals" with respect to saying "paper-plate-this is a dead deer." Unless you are a stone-cold MFer and you have a VERY good rest (providing you are shooting groups off a benchrest). MOST folks don't shoot like off the bench when they are excited to see that deer. JMO |
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I use and have used Lightfield slugs for over 10 years. I too notice fliers after about 4 rounds or so. The barrel really heats up and like someone else said, shotgun barrels are softer, espically when compared to an AR. I like the Lightfieds because their 2 3/4in slugs have a 1 1/4oz slug. Makes a big hole. Bigger hole means dead deer. Sometimes it's hard to hit the heart, lungs, etc. when shooting a slug gun at a distance. The deer are running, your in a tree and making a tough shot....numerous reasons. My experience has been great with these slugs. I will shoot 2-3 rounds, check my target do some dry firing before I shoot again. Gives the barrel a chance to cool off. Also give me time to recover from the impact of shooting a 12ga slug gun. No matter how tough you are, your body will react to the gun and cause you to flinch at times. Practice will cure this but with sabot slugs being so darn expensive, it's hard to practice alot. Sounds like you are ready. If you are hitting a paper plate at 100 yards, that is a dead dear. I use the same method. If you miss in the field, don't get down on yourself. It happens. I missed a great buck at 30 yards last year as it trotted in front of me. No excuses, I simply missed. Took a deer later the same evening at a greater distance. Good luck on you hunt. This is generally how I feel, "minute-o-plate" is a dead deer. Last year I had a nice buck 40 yards out standing still and I missed, 2hours later 4 deer come running at me and turned about 50 yards away, and I pulled up on the last deer, stopped it dead right there at full peed. I couldn't do it again if I tried but it was pretty sweet. The guy I hunt with watched it all from about 30 yards away, one of the other deer ran straight at him, tripped summer salted and rolled right into him. One of the funniest things I have ever seen... I practice alot with my slug gun before the season, so Im used to the recoil and shooting off hand.. I have a pistol grip butt stock, and a limb savor recoil pad, the combination of those two cuts the recoil by id say atleast 30% so its not to harsh.. |
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I dont know if the shot gun barrels are softer, but they are defiantly much thinner and heat up much faster then rifles. Shotgun barrels are indeed much softer. You can set a shotgun up in a corner and leave it untouched for a few years and the barrel will actually warp a few thousandths. I once had a Savage Model 24 223/20 ga that shot to different points with both barrels. I put a 2.5x scope on the upper rifle barrel and centered it. The 20 ga shotgun barrel shot slugs 3 inches to one side at 50 yards. I put the shotgun barrel on two 2x4 blocks and tapped the barrel in the center with a conduit bender. A few whacks and a few shots and I got it centered with the 223 barrel.
I know it sounds like a "bubba" method but a very good shotgun smith suggested it to me. Shotgun barrels are soft enough they can be dented. And it's not uncommon for gunsmiths to have the expanding mandrels that fit inside shotgun barrels to take those dents out. And if you've ever cut many shotgun barrels down, you'll often find one side of the barrel wall thicker than the other. Shotgun barrels by their very nature are not the precision machined products that rifled barrels are. |
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I dont know if the shot gun barrels are softer, but they are defiantly much thinner and heat up much faster then rifles. Shotgun barrels are indeed much softer. You can set a shotgun up in a corner and leave it untouched for a few years and the barrel will actually warp a few thousandths. I once had a Savage Model 24 223/20 ga that shot to different points with both barrels. I put a 2.5x scope on the upper rifle barrel and centered it. The 20 ga shotgun barrel shot slugs 3 inches to one side at 50 yards. I put the shotgun barrel on two 2x4 blocks and tapped the barrel in the center with a conduit bender. A few whacks and a few shots and I got it centered with the 223 barrel.
I know it sounds like a "bubba" method but a very good shotgun smith suggested it to me. Shotgun barrels are soft enough they can be dented. And it's not uncommon for gunsmiths to have the expanding mandrels that fit inside shotgun barrels to take those dents out. And if you've ever cut many shotgun barrels down, you'll often find one side of the barrel wall thicker than the other. Shotgun barrels by their very nature are not the precision machined products that rifled barrels are. The bending of a barrel by only sitting it in the corner is a myth. |
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I dont know if the shot gun barrels are softer, but they are defiantly much thinner and heat up much faster then rifles. Shotgun barrels are indeed much softer. You can set a shotgun up in a corner and leave it untouched for a few years and the barrel will actually warp a few thousandths. I once had a Savage Model 24 223/20 ga that shot to different points with both barrels. I put a 2.5x scope on the upper rifle barrel and centered it. The 20 ga shotgun barrel shot slugs 3 inches to one side at 50 yards. I put the shotgun barrel on two 2x4 blocks and tapped the barrel in the center with a conduit bender. A few whacks and a few shots and I got it centered with the 223 barrel.
I know it sounds like a "bubba" method but a very good shotgun smith suggested it to me. Shotgun barrels are soft enough they can be dented. And it's not uncommon for gunsmiths to have the expanding mandrels that fit inside shotgun barrels to take those dents out. And if you've ever cut many shotgun barrels down, you'll often find one side of the barrel wall thicker than the other. Shotgun barrels by their very nature are not the precision machined products that rifled barrels are. The bending of a barrel by only sitting it in the corner is a myth. No friend it's not. I've seen machine shafts i.e. Gardner-Denver Wire Wrap parts be a few thousandths off after being stored vertically in racks for 10 years. They were off enough they couldn't be used. And shotgun barrels are NOT 3/4" thick hardened steel shafts. If that is a myth, then tell me why shotgun barrels will dent? |
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I dont know if the shot gun barrels are softer, but they are defiantly much thinner and heat up much faster then rifles. Shotgun barrels are indeed much softer. You can set a shotgun up in a corner and leave it untouched for a few years and the barrel will actually warp a few thousandths. I once had a Savage Model 24 223/20 ga that shot to different points with both barrels. I put a 2.5x scope on the upper rifle barrel and centered it. The 20 ga shotgun barrel shot slugs 3 inches to one side at 50 yards. I put the shotgun barrel on two 2x4 blocks and tapped the barrel in the center with a conduit bender. A few whacks and a few shots and I got it centered with the 223 barrel.
I know it sounds like a "bubba" method but a very good shotgun smith suggested it to me. Shotgun barrels are soft enough they can be dented. And it's not uncommon for gunsmiths to have the expanding mandrels that fit inside shotgun barrels to take those dents out. And if you've ever cut many shotgun barrels down, you'll often find one side of the barrel wall thicker than the other. Shotgun barrels by their very nature are not the precision machined products that rifled barrels are. The bending of a barrel by only sitting it in the corner is a myth. No friend it's not. I've seen machine shafts i.e. Gardner-Denver Wire Wrap parts be a few thousandths off after being stored vertically in racks for 10 years. They were off enough they couldn't be used. And shotgun barrels are NOT 3/4" thick hardened steel shafts. If that is a myth, then tell me why shotgun barrels will dent? This is relevant to my interests. I store most of my firearms in the vertical position, be it in the safe, or a closet corner. The gun in question was left in my closet corner for about a year..[:// could it have warped? |
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I dont know if the shot gun barrels are softer, but they are defiantly much thinner and heat up much faster then rifles. Shotgun barrels are indeed much softer. You can set a shotgun up in a corner and leave it untouched for a few years and the barrel will actually warp a few thousandths. I once had a Savage Model 24 223/20 ga that shot to different points with both barrels. I put a 2.5x scope on the upper rifle barrel and centered it. The 20 ga shotgun barrel shot slugs 3 inches to one side at 50 yards. I put the shotgun barrel on two 2x4 blocks and tapped the barrel in the center with a conduit bender. A few whacks and a few shots and I got it centered with the 223 barrel.
I know it sounds like a "bubba" method but a very good shotgun smith suggested it to me. Shotgun barrels are soft enough they can be dented. And it's not uncommon for gunsmiths to have the expanding mandrels that fit inside shotgun barrels to take those dents out. And if you've ever cut many shotgun barrels down, you'll often find one side of the barrel wall thicker than the other. Shotgun barrels by their very nature are not the precision machined products that rifled barrels are. The bending of a barrel by only sitting it in the corner is a myth. No friend it's not. I've seen machine shafts i.e. Gardner-Denver Wire Wrap parts be a few thousandths off after being stored vertically in racks for 10 years. They were off enough they couldn't be used. And shotgun barrels are NOT 3/4" thick hardened steel shafts. If that is a myth, then tell me why shotgun barrels will dent? This is relevant to my interests. I store most of my firearms in the vertical position, be it in the safe, or a closet corner. The gun in question was left in my closet corner for about a year..[:// could it have warped? I doubt your barrel would have warped in that short a period unless you had a lot of weight stacked against it. Your problem is that it opens up a group as it gets hot. That is probably because the wall thickness of the barrel is ever so slightly different in thickness from one side to another. I once cut a Remington barrel down to 20" and it had a large difference in wall thickness. It's not that uncommon. |
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snip I doubt your barrel would have warped in that short a period unless you had a lot of weight stacked against it. Your problem is that it opens up a group as it gets hot. That is probably because the wall thickness of the barrel is ever so slightly different in thickness from one side to another. I once cut a Remington barrel down to 20" and it had a large difference in wall thickness. It's not that uncommon. Indeed, they aren't really match grade barrels, are they? 
I wonder if the thick walled H&R ones help this a lot...I had a Win 1300 with a rifled barrel, but no cantilever or pinning+ a crappy trigger...it shot good groups once in a while, but I never felt real comfortable with it. |