Posted: 12/10/2008 12:16:00 PM EDT
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Is anyone else a little weary about cleaning and eating deer, especially in Wisconsin or any other areas where it is prevalent? I know that they say they don't "think" it can be contracted by humans, it still makes me a little nervous. Too bad they don't make a field kit for checking your deer for the disease. |
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This year they found it in a deer farm in MI. I've read before that the spread of this disease is linked to deer and elk farms often. Makes you wonder if it is caused by the feed they use, like the Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy/Mad cow disease. In humans, it is known as new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. If it is the same thing as mad cow disease, you can bet on it being transmitted to humans.
You are supposed to take care in the butchering where there is no cross contamination from the brain and spinal cord with the meat to lessen the chance of infecting the meat with the prions if the animal is infected. Heat from cooking won't kill the prions. In Michigan, the DNR will check your deer I believe, but if I remember right they have to take the deer head to do it. If you plan on getting a mount then it would kind of screw that up. http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_46403_46404-203169––,00.html |
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I have been involved in various ways of study in CWD off and on since 1991. There has never been a documented case of Cervid-Human transmission any neuro disease. I'll write more later. I'm beat right now. There are many variables. many, many variables. What is the difference between the 3 diseases I listed? With BSE the FDA doesn't want ranchers having their beef certified as being free of the disease. Why? Could it be that they don't really want testing of beef which may show a problem with herds being infected? This would kill the market for beef that is not tested. The disease may take more than 4 years to show effects of infection. In Michigan they have stopped letting hunters bait in the lower 2/3rds of the state. Supposedly prions are shed through animal droppings so they don't want animals (deer, elk) coming into bait stations which could increase transmission of the disease. Another related disease is scrapie in sheep. Some years ago they were grinding up sheep bones, etc. and adding it to the feed for cattle, they also feed ground up chicken droppings and other by products from processing. It has long been thought that the practice led to the jump between species. Why did the CWD become so prevalent in contained herds (i.e. game farms, research stations etc.)? Eating commercial foods that were contaminated with the same types of by products used in cattle feed, maybe? Bovine Tuberculosis jumped species into the wild deer herds in Michigan. It can also infect humans. Chronic wasting disease (CWD) of deer and elk is endemic in a tri-corner area of Colorado, Wyoming, and Nebraska, and new foci of CWD have been detected in other parts of the United States. Although detection in some areas may be related to increased surveillance, introduction of CWD due to translocation or natural migration of animals may account for some new foci of infection. Increasing spread of CWD has raised concerns about the potential for increasing human exposure to the CWD agent. The foodborne transmission of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to humans indicates that the species barrier may not completely protect humans from animal prion diseases. Conversion of human prion protein by CWD-associated prions has been demonstrated in an in vitro cell-free experiment, but limited investigations have not identified strong evidence for CWD transmission to humans. More epidemiologic and laboratory studies are needed to monitor the possibility of such transmissions.
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is classified as a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE), or prion disease, along with other animal diseases, such as scrapie and bovine spongiform encephalopathy. The only known natural hosts for CWD are deer (Odocoileus species) and Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) (1,2). CWD and other TSEs are believed to be caused by a pathogenic effect on neurons of an abnormal isoform of a host-encoded glycoprotein, the prion protein. The pathogenic form of this protein appears to be devoid of nucleic acids and supports its own amplification in the host. TSEs in animals primarily occur by transmitting the etiologic agent within a species, either naturally or through domestic husbandry practices. In contrast, most such encephalopathies in humans occur as a sporadic disease with no identifiable source of infection or as a familial disease linked with mutations of the prion protein gene (3). A notable exception among the human TSEs is the variant form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD), which is believed to have resulted from the foodborne transmission of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) to humans (4,5). http://www.cdc.gov/NCIDOD/EID/vol10no6/03-1082.htm DNR recommends the following common sense tips for handling any harvested cervid:
Avoid shooting or handling a deer that appears sick. Wear latex or rubber gloves when field-dressing or butchering deer. Remove all internal organs. Remove the meat from the bones and spinal column. Do not use household knives or utensils. Avoid cutting through bones or the spinal column (backbone). Never eat a deer’s brain, eyeballs, spinal cord, spleen or lymph nodes. If you saw antlers off, cut through a bone, or if you sever the spinal cord with a knife, be sure to disinfect these tools prior to using them for the butchering or removal of meat. Remove all fat, membranes and connective tissue from the meat. Note that normal field dressing and trimming of fat from meat will remove the lymph nodes. Always wash hands and instruments thoroughly after dressing and processing game meat. Use a 50/50 solution of household chlorine bleach and water to disinfect tools and work surfaces. Wipe down counters and let them dry; soak knives and tools for 1 hour. |
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They're all prion diseases, discovered in the 90's. It's the same disease, but very difficult to transmit in general and hard to say for sure how well it will transmit between species. It was actually an unimaginable thing, self-replicating disease causing proteins.
There's a base form of the protein in your brain. It's normal and safe...when I was in college they hadn't figured out any purpose for it, and I doubt they have yet. It could be twisted into a shape that tended to grab another protein of the same type and turn it into the twisted form. So they build up into long chains (sometimes breaking apart) and those chains would burst brain cells. The bad form of the protein turns the good into bad. They form plaques of destroyed brain cells. There are several massive protections even if you eat infected meat. Cooking denatures a lot of the proteins to begin with. Your stomach and digestive system are already set up to break down proteins rapidly...because it just wouldn't be safe if your body ran strange enzymes. And they tend to be concentrated in the brain, which we don't eat. It's still scary though, because there's no way to treat it. It's more of a death sentence than AIDS ever was. |
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There are several massive protections even if you eat infected meat. Cooking denatures a lot of the proteins to begin with. Your stomach and digestive system are already set up to break down proteins rapidly...because it just wouldn't be safe if your body ran strange enzymes. And they tend to be concentrated in the brain, which we don't eat. It's still scary though, because there's no way to treat it. It's more of a death sentence than AIDS ever was. How do cattle get BSE?
It is widely believed that cattle become infected with BSE by eating feed that contains remnants of other infected cattle. The modern agricultural practice of including animal parts in cattle feed is suspected to be the principle way that cattle are infected with BSE. (Read more about Factory Farms) Can humans get BSE? Yes. Human can become infected with a BSE-like illness, called variant Creutzfeldt Jakob Disease (vCJD), by eating meat from cows infected with BSE. There is no known cure for vCJD. Does cooking or irradiating meat destroy the prion that causes BSE? No. Cooking at high temperatures or treating meat with irradiation does nothing to destroy prions, and is not effective in preventing BSE. According to the National Institute of Health, cooking does not destroy the prions and boiling will not destroy the prions on utensils used in cutting infected material. |
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Eh, true. I certainly wouldn't count on cooking, or anything else, on a deer I knew was infected. Prion diseases are a very strangely stable form of the protein, so just heat isn't terribly good at breaking them up, but if they get hot enough it will destroy them. The problem is that the normal steak technique is to heat the outside to kill bacteria, and we assume the inside is safe, even if it's still pretty rare. That doesn't help with the infection is on the subcellular level.
Enough heat will destroy them, but normal cooking techniques weren't designd to fully sanitize (unless you like leather). Still, the transmission rate seems very low. |
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OK..
i'm back among the living. CWD, BSE, CJDnV are all similar, but not the same disease. think of them as cousins. They are Prion( Pryon) based disease states. all with their own individualistic issues. They seem to gravitate toward certain animals. I first began working on CWD papers back in 1991. Due to the fact at a time when Oklahoma has basically a goose egg for a deer herd ( down to an esimated 50 head) we were able to gain a number of deer for transplant from CO to bring new blood and herd numbers in for incubation and later re-introduction. These deer primarily came from the Ft Collins area. This area is known to be a hotbed for CWD. CWD is similar to scrapie in sheep. very possibily the same disease but with a few modifications. The transplanted CO in OK were placed on a large military base which is in my home county. It is world renown for its deer herd to this day. As the herd grew, some deer were re-introduced into other areas of OK. Which brings up to the fact that to this day, a huge majority of deer are genetically linked to those first transplanted deer from CO - from an area known to some as "ground zero for CWD". For over 4 generations, oklahomans have been killing these deer. eating all the meat, and never have shown any human signs of transmission. NONE. There have been rare cases of what was believed to be CJDnV, in fact i personally was involved with the diagnosis of one man from NE OK, but it was never 100% ruled CJDnV. Some Drs tried to pawn it off from the patients eating deer meat, and it took numerous conversations to shoot this hypothesis down. IF, CWD was that prevalent, OK deer would be dropping like rotten apples from the disease and if it was transmissable to humans in any real aspect, thousands of Oklahomans would have had the disease or the symptoms in the past 2-3 generations. I drive this home to think about. Prions are localized in the CNS of an animal. the back straps and tenderlions are the primo cuts of meat on any animal, deer included. It would be almost impossible to bone these cuts on an amatuer level without contaminating the knife and saw as well as the meat. Yet, OKlahomans and other hunters in other states and their families are extremely healthy from eating this meat for many generations. Prion based diseases are known, but unknown. all data and publishments should be interpreted with caution as there are no experts and tons of injecture for their own personal opinions. some of which are anti-hunting or anti meat biased. You cannot sterilze any land, tools or animal products that are contaminated with the particles. Even when land is sterilized with the best methods available and left feral for years before the introduction of any new animals- the new animals will soon start to test positive for CWD with many animals dying thereafter. There have been numerous studies on this in numerous states. Wy has a place that is wicked. I cant think of the name right now, but ELK and DEER get hit like lightening bolts very soon after introduction. Cattle is a different dog. lets look at England. Merry Ole England made some bad decisions. they have a relatively small land mass for agriculture. Cattle operations are fairly dense. Its common knowledge that you compress the populations of any animals( humans included) and Immune systems weaken and illness and disease blossum. Wel someone in England tried to maximize carcass use and thought is was a great idea to grind up animal carcasses ( CNS systems included) to reintroduce into the feed synthesis as a Ca, P and general nutrient enhancer. So the cattle were basically cannibalising themselves in an odd way. This is a known transmission in human to human Kuru in cannibals of New Guina. These Cattle would show classic signs of BSE. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, they have never been able to "prove" that humans that came down with CJDnV were infected from the cattle. In this day and age of genetic markers, nuclear isotope tracers and other medical advances, it seems to me that this would be an EASY MARK. Now, they made strategic changes in feeding and other cattle operations as well as butchering and the disease has decreased. now back to deer. one of the larrgest problematic issues with CWD is penned deer. Deer on farms being bred in semi confined areas more like livestock as breeders. Many states have banned this business due to the fact that CWD seems to be rampant in many cases. Either F&S or Outdoor Life had AN EXCELLENT article on this fiasco last year i believe. It showd how the system of oversight combined with shady deer farm owners were the catalyst to a huge possibile problem. lets look at the comparisons. ruminant animals kept in confined areas, feed man made diets. I personally look for corn and other baiting to be banned in the next 5-10 years. Food Plots will be left alone, but concentrated mucousal areas will be banned. heres a thought.. Ft Collins was known to have done Biologic Testing for the Army BITD.. are we seeing a transmission of a routine issue in deer that has been enhanced by an etiologic entity?? the bottom line is we dont know. dont believe the hype. how do we know these numbers havent always been this way from wayback when?? TB in whitetails is a totally different issue..and should be dealt with accordingly. you can thank winter time feeding operations for that mess. its late again..i'm sure i left some things out.. any questions from the gallery? I think about this as a hobby.. it has sort of been my "white whale". |
| Kinda funny this thread is here. The NDARNG just got a "tasker" for disposing of some cattle that "potentially" have bovine tuberculosis. Apparently there was some meat that was found to have this virus in a MN meat processing plant. The cattle came from ND, supposedly. So, the Army Guard is going to move the 20 some odd number of dead cattle from the ND DNR to a dump for disposal. They said there is ZERO potential threat to humans for contamination. So, they are telling those involved in the disposal that they require no PPE. Seriously???? |
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Kinda funny this thread is here. The NDARNG just got a "tasker" for disposing of some cattle that "potentially" have bovine tuberculosis. Apparently there was some meat that was found to have this virus in a MN meat processing plant. The cattle came from ND, supposedly. So, the Army Guard is going to move the 20 some odd number of dead cattle from the ND DNR to a dump for disposal. They said there is ZERO potential threat to humans for contamination. So, they are telling those involved in the disposal that they require no PPE. Seriously???? It is an airborne bacteria, so if the animals are dead the transmission is not likely unless someone is cutting the carcass open and the bacteria gets airborne. A field researcher in the recent past found a dead mountain lion and decided to cut the body open in his garage and do an autopsy of the bloated animal. They found him dead a few days later from the plague which was released into the air when he cut into the body. Description
Tuberculosis (TB) is a serious disease caused when bacteria attack the respiratory system. There are three types of TB - human, avian, and bovine. Human TB is rarely transmitted to non-humans, avian TB is typically restricted to birds (pigs and occasionally other animals have been found to be susceptible), and bovine TB - or cattle TB - is the most infectious, capable of infecting most mammals. Bovine TB is caused by the bacterium Mycobacterium bovis (M. bovis) which is part of the Mycobacterium tuberculosis complex. In Michigan bovine TB has been found in white-tailed deer, elk, black bear, bobcat, coyote, opossum, raccoon, and red fox. Humans can be skin-tested to determine if they have been exposed to TB. These tests can be done at either the local health department or a private physician's office. A positive skin test, however, does not identify the source of the infection. Remember, most people get the infection from other people. Significance In the U.S. today, the threat of humans contracting bovine TB from animals is extremely remote. Health officials have confidence in the state's meat and milk supply. At risk are Michigan's deer herd and other wildlife species with their many social, ecological, and economic values as well as Michigan's livestock industry. By continuing to eliminate TB-infected animals from wild and domestic animal populations, paying close attention to the meat inspection and pasteurization processes, using proper food handling, and good management practices, the chance of bovine TB transmission from animals to humans is virtually eliminated. http://www.michigan.gov When people suffering from active pulmonary TB cough, sneeze, speak, or spit, they expel infectious aerosol droplets 0.5 to 5 µm in diameter. A single sneeze can release up to 40,000 droplets.[20] Each one of these droplets may transmit the disease, since the infectious dose of tuberculosis is very low and the inhalation of just a single bacterium can cause a new infection.[21]
People with prolonged, frequent, or intense contact are at particularly high risk of becoming infected, with an estimated 22% infection rate. A person with active but untreated tuberculosis can infect 10–15 other people per year.[2] Others at risk include people in areas where TB is common, people who inject drugs using unsanitary needles, residents and employees of high-risk congregate settings, medically under-served and low-income populations, high-risk racial or ethnic minority populations, children exposed to adults in high-risk categories, patients immunocompromised by conditions such as HIV/AIDS, people who take immunosuppressant drugs, and health care workers serving these high-risk clients.[22] |
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This is the first that I've heard of this disease so I found a map to see what areas are affected:
Chronic Wasting Disease |
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Is anyone else a little weary about cleaning and eating deer, especially in Wisconsin or any other areas where it is prevalent? I know that they say they don't "think" it can be contracted by humans, it still makes me a little nervous. Too bad they don't make a field kit for checking your deer for the disease. First I was told that I was going to die from Lyme Disease. Then for sure Bovine Tuberculosis was going to get me. Now I am told that CWD is sure to do me in. (In the human form) I guess I'll just keep going on doing what I'm doing and eventually something will get me. I'll still eat my vension with eggs and buttered toast for breakfast and hope I make it till noon. My kids told me I should eat a more natural diet. But look at all the people that die of natural causes. 
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