Posted: 10/9/2015 9:14:42 PM EDT
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I am about ready to pull the trigger and do the buy once, cry once routine......sort of! I want to buy an HF rig, leaning towards the Yaesu FT 1200 What are your thought. I am looking to spend a max of 2K for the radio and build off that. Or am a headed down the fail road? |
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The Official Arfcom rig is and IC 7200
IMO as the board Luddite I swear by it because all you need to do digital is a USB cord. It is simple and not a bad rig. Jupe will likely jump in and likely agree with me. ETA my home rig is an IC 7200, an AH-4 uner bolted to a DXE 43' vertical. I have over 200 DX contacts. |
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I had an FTDX-1200 and could not get it to sound like my old TS-590s. I sold it and bought another TS-590, but the SG this time. In my opinion, the receiver is so much better. I did a video when I had the 1200.
I found a pretty good deal on a Flex 6300, so may sell the TS-590sg now. https://youtu.be/N_5bbTPi19w |
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If I didn't already have a 7200, I'd seriously consider this one.
Yaesu FT-991 I've never played with one, so all my opinions are based to the always-truthful information in the Internet. Also, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once. ETA: There's a nice video on Universal's site: Universal |
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FTDX3000. Buy once, cry once. It's an amazing radio with a superior receiver. No other radio in this price range comes even close in performance.
Right now it's on sale at HRO for $1999. Ftdx1200 is a nice rig too. Very quiet receiver with excellent audio. It will work just fine if you are not into contesting and DX-ing. Just keep in mind that a good antenna is more important than a radio. |
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Though my main rig is a Ten-Tec Jupiter, I also have two Icom IC-7200s. One is mounted in an SKB case
for portable/emergency/field day use. 
So, what's so good about this rig? 1. Easy to operate. 2. No need to buy difficult to find extra optional filters. This radio has all the filtering you could need built in. 3. Ruggedly built! Strong cast aluminum frame surrounds the circuit boards in a way to protect them, like a big roll cage all around. In addition, there are grooves in the frame with O-rings that seal against the covers. While not "waterproof", this radio is "water resistant". Getting caught in a quick sprinkle is not going to ruin this radio. The whole frame is a heat sink. 4. Good performing triple conversion receiver. Other radios in this price range (under $1000) are mostly dual conversion. Yes, it makes a difference. 5. With the optional front tactical handles the knobs and buttons are somewhat protected. The way the back end is designed protects sockets and such on the back end. 6. So, lots of great features for the money... and the "street price" of this radio is about $800, usually with free shipping. With that kind of price you can afford the front handles. $800. For all that. So, what's the bad? The LCD screen could be a little bigger, but it is not difficult to see and use. Fine for when sitting on a desk or table. Not so much for when mounted under a dash for mobile, but this would not be my first choice for a mobile HF rig. I'd want one of the more expensive radios with removable remote faceplate. This radio works great with the LDG IT-100 auto tuners. You can even set it up to "tune on PTT" so it is truly automatic. You just operate the radio. Arfcom Special - Icom IC-7200, LDG IT-100 tuner, Samlex SEC-1223 or -1223BBM (with Battery Backup Module). LDG also makes two remote tuners that mount up at the feedpoint of the antenna in a manner similar to the AH-4 tuner mentioned by Piccolo. Putting a tuner at the antenna's feedpoint rather than next to the radio reduces feedline losses to almost nothing. LDG has two models, one rated 100 w (like the IT-100) and one rated 600 w. If you want to lug a radio up to the hunting camp, portable ops, field day, and still use it at the house, you'd be hard pressed to do better than the IC-7200. The IC-7410 has a lot of features of the higher priced models, and a large screen. I don't think I'd want to use it for portable operations, but a very good radio I am told. I'll let the owners of those radios (Archbru, others) tell you about the 7410. |
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QST specs... http://www.remeeus.eu/hamradio/pa1hr/productreview.htm 
sherwood specs http://www.sherweng.com/table.html dollar for dollar the best thing going is the Kenwood TS-590SG 
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Quoted: If I didn't already have a 7200, I'd seriously consider this one. Yaesu FT-991 I've never played with one, so all my opinions are based to the always-truthful information in the Internet. Also, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once. ETA: There's a nice video on Universal's site: Universal |
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Quoted:
I have an FTdx3000. If I had to do it over I would sell it and buy...... a FTdx3000. 
SUPER smooth RX. I had a 7200 and for the money, its hard to beat. But if you want to buy once, look at the FTdx3000. I have to go along with this. I have the FTDX3000 as a base rig. I really like it, but it is not very portable. I also have an IC-7200 for a portable rig. I really like it also. It all depends on what the primary use will be. For a base rig I would scrape up the extra $$$ and go with the 3000 again. If the budget is rigid, and you might want to do portable ops, the IC-7200, an external tuner and a Buddipole will fit in your budget. |
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A few comments:
- I've never had a need for FM on an HF rig, not once. - VHF/UHF and HF are two different animals. VHF is local, roughly a countywide area. HF is regional to worldwide. The nature of operation on each is quite different. I often find myself monitoring VHF while operating on HF or vice versa. ( I used to work two nets, a mic in each hand, on HF and VHF. ) You can't do that with a "all in one" rig. You really need two
separate radios, one for HF, one for VHF/UHF. - I used to occasionally hear the buzz sound of R/C model transmitters but few pilots, if any, use 6 meters anymore. I doubt there are any 6 m R/C radios in the entire county these days. I've never heard any phone whatsoever on 6 m. All repeater activity in this part of the state is 2 m, with some 70 cm activity in the large cities. Locally there is a 70 cm repeater that no one uses. I have, on occasion heard SSB phone on 10 meters. No FM, and no 10 m repeaters here. Just something to consider when buying a radio. Whether a radio has 6 m or not, or FM, is not a deal breaker. |
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I have played on 10meter FM a lot
it's a blast when i was a new ham, there was a 10m FM repeater in the virgin islands that would come booming in almost every day few months ago, I was driving home from work and got into a 10m repeater way out in California i ended up talking to a 6 lander who was also driving home, but he was on UHF(linked) there's another good one in upstate new york I agree that having VHF/UHF is not too desirable, i prefer to have a separate 2m/440 because locals will spot DX |
| I tend to like 10/6m FM and around here there are several nice repeaters on both. Most of the 7200's competition do FM as well as the rest of the Icom product line except the 718, why they left it off the 7200 is a mystery to me. Either make it a strictly HF rig and leave 50mhz out. No one operates in straight am anymore why not just make it an SSB only rig if that was the focus? I dont think the 7200 is a bad radio by any stretch but some other Icom and other manufacturers offer other features that may be attractive to the first time buyer. Usually when I go to the field I take a smaller more portable radio with more bands/modes available rather than an HF rig and a vhf/uhf radio. Not that I don't like the 7200 but it is larger than an 857 and heavier ---I am more comfortable operating the 7200 at 100w than the 857 which I typically cut back to 75w or so but for me the 7200 is more of a base rig with portable features. |
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Quoted:
A few comments: - I've never had a need for FM on an HF rig, not once. - VHF/UHF and HF are two different animals. VHF is local, roughly a countywide area. HF is regional to worldwide. The nature of operation on each is quite different. I often find myself monitoring VHF while operating on HF or vice versa. ( I used to work two nets, a mic in each hand, on HF and VHF. ) You can't do that with a "all in one" rig. You really need two
separate radios, one for HF, one for VHF/UHF. - I used to occasionally hear the buzz sound of R/C model transmitters but few pilots, if any, use 6 meters anymore. I doubt there are any 6 m R/C radios in the entire county these days. I've never heard any phone whatsoever on 6 m. All repeater activity in this part of the state is 2 m, with some 70 cm activity in the large cities. Locally there is a 70 cm repeater that no one uses. I have, on occasion heard SSB phone on 10 meters. No FM, and no 10 m repeaters here. Just something to consider when buying a radio. Whether a radio has 6 m or not, or FM, is not a deal breaker. On the other end of the spectrum of usage....I've probably been on 10 FM more than any other band the last two years. For me FM is essential. |
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I sold my FTDX 1200, the close in performance just wasn't there for me. It had a lot of digital fluff & buff that looked good but didn't work that well. It was a real kludg fest to get to the 60M channels or the 10M FM channels. I went back to a TS 480 HX and put in CW & SSB filters along with a TCXO. 73, Rob ETA When 10M FM opens up it is flat amazing! |
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Quoted:
I sold my FTDX 1200, the close in performance just wasn't there for me. It had a lot of digital fluff & buff that looked good but didn't work that well. It was a real kludg fest to get to the 60M channels or the 10M FM channels. I went back to a TS 480 HX and put in CW & SSB filters along with a TCXO. 73, Rob ETA When 10M FM opens up it is flat amazing! You betcha! 
Field Day 2010. 29.660 had the S meter almost pinned. They guys that were with me that FD were shocked and amazed at how strong it was coming in, with the usual fading in and out of course. FM in an HF rig isn't a deal breaker for me either, but it does have it's moments. 
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Quoted:
I tend to like 10/6m FM and around here there are several nice repeaters on both. Most of the 7200's competition do FM as well as the rest of the Icom product line except the 718, why they left it off the 7200 is a mystery to me. Either make it a strictly HF rig and leave 50mhz out. No one operates in straight am anymore why not just make it an SSB only rig if that was the focus? I dont think the 7200 is a bad radio by any stretch but some other Icom and other manufacturers offer other features that may be attractive to the first time buyer. Usually when I go to the field I take a smaller more portable radio with more bands/modes available rather than an HF rig and a vhf/uhf radio. Not that I don't like the 7200 but it is larger than an 857 and heavier ---I am more comfortable operating the 7200 at 100w than the 857 which I typically cut back to 75w or so but for me the 7200 is more of a base rig with portable features. I'm on 29.050, AM modulation right now. We are having a local AM net. This is the only time I ever use AM modulation. Never used FM on HF. FT-857 is my favorite compact HF rig. I can run it at 100 Watts for a long time without any overheating issues. It also does great on prolonged digital transmissions. On the other hand, my IC-7000 gets hot enough to fry eggs at the same power settings. |
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Quoted:
.... I went back to a TS 480 HX and put in CW & SSB filters along with a TCXO. ....ETA When 10M FM opens up it is flat amazing! The TS-480 with the narrow CW and SSB filters is a wonderful radio
I used to run the SAT in the house, and currently run an HX in the mobile 
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To reinforce previous suggestions, the TS590SG and the FTDX3000 are both excellent radios, with a little different user interface.
At $2k you're getting close to Elecraft K3 territory also. Used a 590 for a bit this year at a multiop field day, wonderful and bulletproof receiver. |
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For less than $2000, in my opinion, the Kenwood TS-590 is the rig to beat. I own one and the performance, especially with the filtering and notch, is awesome. For under $1000 I would take a hard look at the Icom IC-7200. When they become available, you may want to look at the IC-7300.
Good filtering and USB connectivity for me is a must. Generally internal antenna tuners are fine, for the IC-7200 I would get an LDG. |
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If you guys are going for the TS 590s, get the TS 590 SG model. It has the bugs from the original rig fixed. Used against used they are competitive. I don't think any original 590's are left on dealer shelves. I have the original. they have a free warranty upgrade to fix the ALC issue. I went ahead and sent mine in, even though I never had a problem with my SB-200 amp took about a week.
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I wish I could afford to be official. $150 Kenwood TS-430 beater here. Quoted:
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The Official Arfcom rig is and IC 7200 I wish I could afford to be official. $150 Kenwood TS-430 beater here. No slight whatsoever but this is an excellent example of getting on the air with a decent rig for short money. |
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I don't think any original 590's are left on dealer shelves. I have the original. they have a free warranty upgrade to fix the ALC issue. I went ahead and sent mine in, even though I never had a problem with my SB-200 amp took about a week.
You're right, there are no more TS 590s except used. MTC had both listed as used and the SG model wasn't that much more. HTH 73, Rob . Quoted:
Quoted:
If you guys are going for the TS 590s, get the TS 590 SG model. It has the bugs from the original rig fixed. Used against used they are competitive. I don't think any original 590's are left on dealer shelves. I have the original. they have a free warranty upgrade to fix the ALC issue. I went ahead and sent mine in, even though I never had a problem with my SB-200 amp took about a week.
You're right, there are no more TS 590s except used. MTC had both listed as used and the SG model wasn't that much more. HTH 73, Rob . |
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Go to HRO and do a side by side comparison. I've spent several hours in 3 different HRO stores test driving many radios. I was disappointed with a TS-590. The price was good but their receivers are too noisy for my liking. I also did not like it's noise reduction DSP performance. It makes everything sound like it's under water. Icoms and Yaesus were far superior.
My favorite and IMHO, the best of all was a new FTDX5000. It's receiver is simply amazing. I was stunned by crystal clear audio and exceptionally quiet receiver. FTDX3000 was my second favorite. It's very close to FTDX5000 in receiver performance. Same quiet, great sounding receiver but it lacks a second, separate receiver (VFO) like in the FT5000 radio. Having a nice color display with a band scope was a big plus though. I ended up buying a new FTDX3000. My third favorite was Icom -7600. It's a bit more expensive but has more features. The receiver was not as good as the Yaesu but it was nice and clear. The radio has a very good noise reduction DSP performance and the best of all NB (pulse type noise blanker). I would have probably taken a closer look at the Icom if I lived in a city with a S9 noise level. Fortunately there is very little noise over here. My FT3000 has a very powerful DSP noise reduction as well. It cuts the noise while preserving RX audio quality (I wish Kenwoods used the same DSP chip). Stop by one of the ham radio retail stores if you can and test drive the radios you like. This way you won't regret your decision later. Also, like I said many time previously, a good antenna makes 90% of your shack. Install the best antenna you can if you want to enjoy this hobby to the full potential. |
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Go to HRO and do a side by side comparison... Quoted:
Go to HRO and do a side by side comparison... ...I was disappointed with a TS-590. The price was good but their receivers are too noisy for my liking.... I also did not like it's noise reduction DSP performance. It makes everything sound like it's under water. Icoms and Yaesus were far superior.... |
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Great advice.I've been running a TS-590s for two years and I STILL really like it. I don't really notice the receiver as being especially noisy, however, it is VERY sensitive and if there is noise out there on your frequency, you'll hear it.You are absolutely right and this is actually my one big complaint with this radio. I positively cannot stand to use the Noise Reduction function, the garble is exactly like a cartoon of voices bubbling up from the deep. I seldom use noise reduction/blanking anyway and use the gain control to control audio and background noise. Quoted:
Quoted:
Go to HRO and do a side by side comparison... ...I was disappointed with a TS-590. The price was good but their receivers are too noisy for my liking.... I also did not like it's noise reduction DSP performance. It makes everything sound like it's under water. Icoms and Yaesus were far superior.... I live outside of the city limits too. There is very little noise and I seldom use noise reduction as well. Sometimes it's needed on 40 meters though. Most radios have nearly equal sensitivity providing that there is no interference from nearby stations. It all comes to signal to noise ratio. I always like to do a side by side testing while using the same antenna. I also make sure to turn off RX pre-amplifiers on 160-20m bands. It's also important to test more than one radio of the same model at several HRO locations (I used to travel for work a lot). Just a simple side by side test showed a TS-590 having noticeably more noise than FTDX3000 while listening to the same weak station. The Yaesu sounds just like 2m FM when noise reduction is set to only 1 on the scale of 0-15. There is also a lot less background noise with digital noise reduction turned completely off. Of course it's my personal observation. I'm very picky when it comes to RX sound quality and performance. BTW, I tested my FTDX3000 next to an Elecraft K3 and found hat both radios were receiving loud stations equally well. Both radios had equally good dynamic range. Unfortunately the K3 was a lot noisier when trying to copy a weak station while FTDX3000 sounded crystal clear with nearly zero background noise. I've noticed the same thing with my KX3 radio. Hopefully new K3 series radios have eliminated this issue. |
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I understand what you are saying about the antenna being a very important part, my way of thinking is the transceiver will probably be the biggest single cost up front. Granted I can spend the mortgage payment and more on an antenna and several on the transceiver, I am just trying to be middle of the road, I still have a wife and family to look after.....lol I will probably look for used items in some of the other parts for the shack, power supply, antenna and some of the other items needed. I already have a laptop and a desktop I can working on for the shack, so a USB is important, not only to get going, but to grow in the hobby. The TS-590SG sound really good as wel as the FTDX3000, I think the 5000 is out of the question unless I win the lottery then the sky would be the limit. You guys have given me a lot to look into, and I appreciate all the help. Keep giving me ideas to ponder. I am going to Nearfest in Deerfield NH this weekend and I hope to pick up a few used items. |
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I operate portable mostly on a picnic table next to the RV
I love my KX3. It, a PX3 panadapter (not using it in the picture), and Surface Pro 3 tablet comprise my complete station. Right now, QRP all the time. In the next few months (Christmas-time) I intend to add the 100 watt amp. I use a collection of antennas from various jackite pole supported wire dipoles, a couple of really long wires directly connected to the tuner via a BNC to binding post adaptor, a Alexloop, and a Alpha Antennas vertical. Elecraft support is top-notch, and you can talk to the owners on occasion too. 
The setup in the picture runs for three hours on a single charge with about a 15% TX/ 85% RX mix. The entire thing can charge from a small solar panel if needed (tested), and I have about $2,500 total in everything not including antennas. If I was less lazy, I'd have a whopping $20 in wire antennas. |
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My suggestions for radios:
Best "traditional knob-and-button" radio, bang for the buck, and my recommendation for a first radio - Kenwood TS-590SG (~$1500) Best "traditional knob-and-button" radio, money no object - Elecraft K3S (easily north of ~$4000 with similar options to the Kenwood, but can be a true dual receiver) Best SDR radio - Flex 6700 (~$6500, but you'll need a Core i7 desktop with a lot of memory to take full advantage and software updates cost you after two years) Best portable QRO radio - Yaesu FT-857D with 300Hz/500Hz filters for digital/CW and TCXO (~$1000 with the filters and an Ebay TCXO) Best portable QRP radio - Elecraft KX-3 (~$1100 for a DIY kit with most options, plus has I/Q out for limited SDR) The latter two are the only portable radios capable of less than half an amp of power consumption at 13.8V on this list, so go with one of those if battery/portable ops are critically important; otherwise, you will be consuming 1.5A on receive minimum. I own a Kenwood TS-590S (not SG), and it's an amazing radio that I'm very happy with for my shack radio, and a Yaesu FT-857D for portable/emcomm use. Also, if you want to dabble with SDR receive goodies and not pay a whole lot of money but be able to use another transmitter, consider the SDRplay and an external transmit/receive switch along with one of the radios above (plus a decent PC). $150 for the SDRplay + $80 for the MFJ-1708 switch. The SDRplay is apparently more sensitive on HF than my buddy's older IC-746PRO, according to him, so you may even want to go this way and get an older rig with serial CAT control just for transmit. |
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I understand what you are saying about the antenna being a very important part, my way of thinking is the transceiver will probably be the biggest single cost up front.Granted I can spend the mortgage payment and more on an antenna and several on the transceiver, I am just trying to be middle of the road, I still have a wife and family to look after.....lol Quoted:
I understand what you are saying about the antenna being a very important part, my way of thinking is the transceiver will probably be the biggest single cost up front.Granted I can spend the mortgage payment and more on an antenna and several on the transceiver, I am just trying to be middle of the road, I still have a wife and family to look after.....lol Antenna planning can't be overstated enough. Do what you can to get at least a dipole or loop up. Verticals are decent and I've worked enough countries on my EARCHI to qualify for DXCC, but my multiband fan dipole is 4 S points lower in noise and gets out better. I will probably look for used items in some of the other parts for the shack, power supply, antenna and some of the other items needed.
I already have a laptop and a desktop I can working on for the shack, so a USB is important, not only to get going, but to grow in the hobby. Find a local club if you haven't already, and ask for some help. A lot of times they get equipment from silent keys' surviving spouses for dirt cheap. The TS-590SG sound really good as wel as the FTDX3000, I think the 5000 is out of the question unless I win the lottery then the sky would be the limit. The 590SG should be at the top of your list for a first radio IMO. I like the Yaesus, and the 5000 is a beast and a fantastic radio, but bang for the buck is not quite there IMO. You guys have given me a lot to look into, and I appreciate all the help. Keep giving me ideas to ponder. I am going to Nearfest in Deerfield NH this weekend and I hope to pick up a few used items.
If you can, take an experienced ham with you, and be really careful buying a used radio by yourself. There's a lot of shaky equipment and it's easy to get a radio with bad finals or intermittent issues that you can't take back. |
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This maybe a stupid question or 2 but, is it possible to hook up a waterfall display to the TS-590SG? Would the STDX-1200 be more compatible in that respect? if you mean like PSK or RTTY etc., yes, its really easy. you just need a standard USB printer cable and free software like fldigi or ham radio delusion |
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OK, I do not know if I did good or if I shot myself in the foot. I found a used Kenwood TS-590S and bought it!! It has all the accessories and manuals. It all looks good, and from what I read I can upgrade the firmware to SG configuration. It's a big chunk of cash, but I couldn't bring myself to go the extra $$$ for a new SG. Pray for my soul!!!  |
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Quoted:....It all looks good, and from what I read I can upgrade the firmware to SG configuration.... You'll LOVE it 
Yep....when I bought my 590, I really loved it. ....but there was one thing I wanted that it didn't do. On CW split, I wanted narrow filter on the DX, wide filter on the pile-up when the new 590SG was announced, Kenwood said they would have a Firmware update that would allow this feature, and more. It was like getting a cool new radio, all over again. good TS-590 info here... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-590s.htm 
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Quoted:
Thanks, I was sitting on the fence but, it was a shit or get off the pot situation. I'll look for a power supply and an antenna tuner tomorrow at Nearfest. Anything else you think I need right off the bat? I did buy an MFJ-1778 antenna on Wednesday. Get a standard USB printer cable....I think I got mine at TARGET once you start playing with rig control and data, you'll need it. You might not need an antenna tuner, the internal might be enough for your G5RV, not sure. Don't forget COAX and a good station single point earth ground. |
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NEARfest. I was very surprised at the number of guys selling older used gear, a lot of stuff to choose from. Not that many new equipment vendors. I picked up a Jetstream power supply and a couple books. I saw lots of older military radios I would have walked around longer and picked a few brains, but I had my Wife and Daughter with me and it was chilly with a good wind. Next year I'll go by myself. We had a great time none the less, and scored a couple Christmas presents in the process. |
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